14:02:52 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dpub
14:02:52 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/10/20-dpub-irc
14:02:54 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:02:54 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dpub
14:02:56 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
14:02:56 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 58 minutes
14:02:57 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
14:02:57 <trackbot> Date: 20 October 2014
14:03:06 <ivan> Chair: Tzviya
14:04:17 <ivan> Regrets: Bill, Ben, Vlad, Liza, Luc, Laura, Rob, Brady, Phil, Markus
14:04:32 <ivan> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/mid/C274A5503C851E43A8ED400AC86E0285041672ACE0@SOM-MB.wiley.com
14:04:46 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting agenda for 2014-10-20: http://www.w3.org/mid/C274A5503C851E43A8ED400AC86E0285041672ACE0@SOM-MB.wiley.com
14:53:23 <pkra> pkra has joined #dpub
14:55:09 <AH_Miller> AH_Miller has joined #DPUB
14:56:10 <clapierre> clapierre has joined #DPUB
14:57:43 <Zakim> DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has now started
14:57:50 <Zakim> +dauwhe
14:57:56 <TimCole> TimCole has joined #dpub
14:58:12 <tzviya> tzviya has joined #dpub
14:58:12 <murakami> murakami has joined #dpub
14:58:17 <Zakim> +clapierre
14:58:31 <Zakim> +[Safari]
14:58:37 <Zakim> +TimCole
14:58:44 <dkaplan3> Zakim, [Safari] is me
14:58:44 <Zakim> +dkaplan3; got it
14:58:51 <Zakim> +Tzviya
14:59:00 <Zakim> +pkra
14:59:12 <astein> astein has joined #dpub
14:59:16 <Zakim> +??P26
14:59:17 <Zakim> + +1.646.336.aaaa
14:59:28 <murakami> zakim, ??P26 is me
14:59:28 <Zakim> +murakami; got it
14:59:52 <Zakim> +MikeMiller
15:00:07 <Zakim> + +1.217.300.aabb
15:00:33 <Zakim> - +1.217.300.aabb
15:00:53 <tzviya> regrets Bill Kasdorf, Ben De Meester, Levantovsky, Vladimir Levantovsky, Liza Daly, Luc Audrain, Laura Dawson, Rob Sanderson, Brady Duga, Phil Madans, Markus Gylling
15:00:58 <Julie> Julie has joined #dpub
15:01:39 <Zakim> + +1.217.300.aacc
15:01:44 <Zakim> +??P30
15:01:47 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:01:47 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:01:49 <Zakim> +Ivan
15:01:59 <Zakim> +Stearns
15:02:35 <Pat_Pagano> Pat_Pagano has joined #dpub
15:02:38 <dauwhe> scribenick: dauwhe
15:02:41 <astearns_> zakim, who is noisy?
15:02:52 <Zakim> astearns_, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ivan (23%)
15:03:04 <Bert_> Bert_ has joined #dpub
15:03:44 <Zakim> +Bert
15:04:04 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
15:04:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see dauwhe, clapierre, dkaplan3, TimCole, Tzviya, pkra, murakami, +1.646.336.aaaa, MikeMiller, +1.217.300.aacc, ??P30, Ivan, Stearns, Bert
15:04:08 <Zakim> On IRC I see Bert_, Pat_Pagano, Julie, astein, murakami, tzviya, TimCole, clapierre, AH_Miller, pkra, Zakim, RRSAgent, dauwhe, ivan, liam, rego, astearns_, Karen, dkaplan3, plinss,
15:04:08 <Zakim> ... trackbot
15:04:22 <ivan> zakim, aaaa is Julie
15:04:22 <Zakim> +Julie; got it
15:04:50 <astein> That's probably me, Ayla Stein
15:04:53 <Zakim> + +1.201.783.aadd
15:04:54 <ivan> zakim, aacc is astein
15:04:54 <Zakim> +astein; got it
15:05:05 <Karen> zakim, code?
15:05:05 <Zakim> the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Karen
15:05:17 <pbelfanti> pbelfanti has joined #dpub
15:05:17 <ivan> zakim, aadd is pbelfanti
15:05:17 <Zakim> +pbelfanti; got it
15:05:26 <Zakim> + +1.609.216.aaee
15:05:35 <Zakim> +Karen_Myers
15:05:43 <ivan> zakim, aaee is laura_fowler
15:05:43 <Zakim> +laura_fowler; got it
15:06:39 <david_stroup> david_stroup has joined #dpub
15:06:39 <ivan> Regrets: Bill, Ben, Vlad, Liza, Luc, Laura, Rob, Brady, Phil, Markus
15:06:42 <tzviya> http://www.w3.org/2014/10/06-dpub-minutes.html
15:06:46 <dauwhe> tzviya: reviewing minutes from last weeks meeting
15:06:51 <dauwhe> ... any comments?
15:07:04 <dauwhe> tzviya: minutes approved.
15:07:20 <tzviya> http://w3c.github.io/dpub-content-and-markup/
15:07:20 <dauwhe> ... minor update made to content and markup document
15:07:31 <Zakim> + +1.585.217.aaff
15:07:47 <ivan> zakim, aaff is david_stroup
15:07:47 <Zakim> +david_stroup; got it
15:08:34 <dauwhe> ... any more feedback on the doc?
15:08:51 <dauwhe> ... I shared this with some Wiley colleagues
15:08:54 <tzviya> http://sempublishing.sourceforge.net/
15:09:14 <dauwhe> ... people didn't know what ??? was
15:09:28 <dauwhe> s/???/SPAR
15:09:30 <pkra> +q
15:09:46 <dauwhe> ... the SPAR suite of ontologies is built for digital publishing
15:09:53 <dauwhe> ... link has descriptions
15:10:09 <dauwhe> ... there is a vocab for digital publishing
15:10:17 <dauwhe> ... and there's a bibliographic vocabulary
15:10:28 <dauwhe> ... lots are in RDFa
15:10:49 <dauwhe> ... would like to hear this group's feedback. It looks like someone has already done much of the work we want to do
15:11:05 <tzviya> ack pkra
15:11:06 <ivan> q+
15:11:22 <tzviya> ack ivan
15:11:23 <dauwhe> pkra: never mind :)
15:11:28 <pkra> +q
15:11:40 <ivan> David Shotto
15:11:43 <ivan> David Shotton
15:11:55 <dauwhe> ivan: He's at Univ. of Oxford
15:12:13 <dauwhe> ... he came into this from scholarly publishing perspective
15:12:25 <dauwhe> ... I don't know if he thought of this as more general
15:12:38 <dauwhe> ... looks more like libraries than trade
15:12:45 <dauwhe> ... by the way, I know him.
15:13:04 <dauwhe> ... I don't know how widely accepted/implemented this is
15:13:12 <dauwhe> ... most people in this group haven't heard of this
15:13:47 <dauwhe> ... so might not be easy step from academy to 'real world'
15:14:02 <TimCole> +q
15:14:08 <dauwhe> ... not sure why Tzviya says that they have done the work that we want to do
15:14:13 <dauwhe> tzviya: they've done some.
15:14:21 <dauwhe> ... the document components ontology, for example
15:14:36 <dauwhe> ... intro / ack / figure etc
15:14:41 <dauwhe> ... overlaps my PF work
15:14:59 <dauwhe> ... the biblio work is relevant to Wiley's journal and book work
15:15:09 <dauwhe> ... I think this is worth exploring
15:15:14 <tzviya> ack TimCole
15:15:28 <TimCole> my phone line dropped
15:15:38 <Zakim> +TimCole.a
15:15:42 <pkra> this sounds like echo from mic+speakers.
15:15:59 <dauwhe> TimCole: I encountered this a while back
15:16:12 <dauwhe> ... connected to Paolo's work
15:16:27 <dauwhe> ... it's very focused on scientific use cases
15:16:37 <dauwhe> ... it overlaps with us but is much more extensive
15:16:51 <dauwhe> ... we can learn from this and leverage some of it
15:17:00 <dauwhe> ... but all of it would be overkill
15:17:09 <dauwhe> tzviya: is it overkill?
15:17:13 <dauwhe> TimCole: yes
15:17:13 <ivan> q+
15:17:22 <tzviya> ack pkra
15:17:42 <tzviya> ack ivan
15:17:42 <dauwhe> pkra: never mind x2
15:18:00 <dauwhe> ivan: let's be careful in separating the different concerns
15:18:32 <dauwhe> ... DPUB is working to find the right mechanism by which a set of terms can be put in a publication
15:18:49 <dauwhe> ... that mechanism is independent of set of terms we would use
15:18:55 <dauwhe> ... SPAR defines a bunch of terms
15:19:13 <dauwhe> ... from our point of view that's fine, but it's a different set of problems
15:19:21 <dauwhe> ... the way we discuss things with PF
15:19:41 <dauwhe> ... is a simple, flat set of terms like chapter/section/
15:19:57 <dauwhe> ... but these guys have much more complex vocabulary based on complex RDF data
15:20:13 <dauwhe> ... it's more document metadata rather than document structure
15:20:33 <dauwhe> ... it's like ONIX only for scholarly publishing
15:21:03 <dauwhe> ... specific vocabulary work is beyond what the group can do
15:21:25 <dauwhe> ... I see it's more important for library community
15:21:57 <dauwhe> tzviya: that makes sense for individual document component markup
15:22:15 <dauwhe> ... I think the bibliographic ontology is important for this group
15:22:23 <dauwhe> ... that's where library world and content world merge
15:22:35 <dauwhe> ... it's worth sharing this with annotations group as well
15:22:53 <dauwhe> ... a biblio entry has an identifier
15:23:12 <dauwhe> ... the reference to it relates to the identifiers they are working with in the annotations world
15:23:25 <dauwhe> tzviya: any other comments?
15:23:41 <dauwhe> ivan: we can discuss at F2F
15:23:59 <dauwhe> ... many people are not on the call today who have strong views
15:24:04 <dauwhe> tzviya: agree
15:24:12 <pkra> +q
15:24:23 <dauwhe> ... we'll come back to this as needed
15:24:26 <tzviya> ack peter
15:24:56 <dauwhe> pkra: there's a math structural semantics group
15:25:04 <dauwhe> ... they are talking about speaking math
15:25:18 <dauwhe> ... a publisher might want to override the speech
15:25:27 <dauwhe> ... where it might be giving away the answer
15:25:40 <dauwhe> ... is this related to structural semantics?
15:25:48 <dauwhe> ... is it worthwhile connecting up?
15:25:55 <dauwhe> ivan: math structural semantics group
15:26:29 <dauwhe> tzviya: is this like saying four over five and the answer is 4/5
15:26:32 <ivan> q+
15:26:39 <ivan> ack pkra
15:26:42 <dauwhe> pkra: you might have to identify the thousands in a number
15:26:52 <dauwhe> ... this is like informing user agents how to deal with different content
15:27:03 <tzviya> ack ivan
15:27:16 <dauwhe> ivan: this may be bigger than you imagine
15:27:29 <dauwhe> ... something bothers me
15:27:35 <dauwhe> ... we have discussion with PF
15:27:43 <dauwhe> ... we are honing into usage of role attribute
15:27:57 <dauwhe> ... the role attribute is for HTML
15:28:15 <dauwhe> tzviya: it's an ARIA attribute used in HTML
15:28:24 <dauwhe> ivan: can it be used in XML?
15:28:32 <pkra> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/appendices
15:28:33 <dauwhe> tzviya: I don't know
15:28:38 <pkra> 10.1.5. WAI-ARIA Attributes XML Schema Module
15:28:45 <dauwhe> ivan: Peter has the answer.
15:29:56 <dauwhe> pkra: better to use ARIA than homebrewed solution
15:30:03 <dauwhe> ivan: let's clarify with PF
15:30:18 <dauwhe> tzviya: markus will know
15:30:19 <TimCole> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/SCHEMA/aria-attributes-1.xsd
15:30:35 <TimCole>  This xsd suggests it is intended for multiple vocabularies
15:32:05 <pkra> Ivan, as in MathML and SVG? :-)
15:32:13 <dauwhe> lots of people: talking about namespaces
15:32:31 <dauwhe> clapierre: we can use ARIA for SVG, MathML, HTML
15:32:36 <dauwhe> ... that's the right approach
15:32:39 <dauwhe> ivan: excellent
15:33:03 <dauwhe> pkra: the other way round
15:33:27 <dauwhe> ... looking at Math side, I don't think there's a natural move toward ARIA rather than homebrewed solution
15:33:38 <dauwhe> ... they might not want to depend on other WGs
15:34:08 <dauwhe> tzviya: sounds like pronunciation lexicons
15:34:23 <dauwhe> ... or putting in local language
15:34:39 <dauwhe> ... I can indicate that in an english book this individual word is french
15:34:56 <dauwhe> ... we're trying to indicate that this is math vs this is a question
15:35:18 <dauwhe> ... should this be a spelled-out word (four over five) vs fraction (four fifths) ???
15:35:27 <clapierre> +1
15:35:33 <pkra> +1
15:35:57 <dauwhe> tzviya: next step: clarify what Math is looking for. Are they looking for terms? or for pronunciation cues, or something else?
15:36:06 <dauwhe> pkra: the discussion has just started.
15:36:26 <dauwhe> tzviya: It's a good discussion to have
15:36:44 <dauwhe> ... could bring up during a11y discussion
15:36:56 <clapierre> agreed
15:36:58 <dauwhe> pkra: one use case
15:37:13 <dauwhe> ... substituting a part of an expression
15:37:34 <dauwhe> ... how do you share that information with a user agent like an a11y tool?
15:38:10 <pkra> +1
15:38:26 <dauwhe> ivan: are there any syntactic problems here?
15:38:54 <dauwhe> tzviya: that's an interesting topic, worth exploring when we talk to PF
15:39:08 <dauwhe> tzviya: we are through our agenda. any other comments?
15:39:29 <dauwhe> ... next week many of us will be at TPAC, so no call
15:39:33 <clapierre> q+
15:39:36 <dauwhe> ... we will have a call on Nov. 3
15:39:53 <dauwhe> clapierre: I will be at TPAC
15:39:53 <tzviya> ack clapierre
15:40:03 <Julie> q+
15:40:11 <dauwhe> ... on thursday evening Benetech will have "born accessible" team
15:40:34 <dauwhe> ... at a local pub
15:40:40 <dauwhe> tzviya: can you email group?
15:40:44 <dauwhe> clapierre: yes
15:40:44 <tzviya> ack julie
15:40:56 <dauwhe> Julie: I won't be able to attend TPAC
15:41:04 <dauwhe> ... will there be remote participation?
15:41:06 <dauwhe> ivan: yes
15:41:18 <dauwhe> ... Zakim will be attending our meetings
15:41:53 <dauwhe> tzviya: Final agenda will come this week
15:42:01 <dauwhe> ... along with dial-in information
15:42:12 <Zakim> -??P30
15:42:15 <Karen> See you in Santa Clara!
15:42:17 <dauwhe> ... thanks everyone.
15:42:19 <Zakim> -astein
15:42:20 <Zakim> -Julie
15:42:21 <Zakim> -dkaplan3
15:42:25 <Zakim> -pkra
15:42:26 <Zakim> -Stearns
15:42:26 <Zakim> -MikeMiller
15:42:26 <Zakim> -Karen_Myers
15:42:27 <Zakim> -Tzviya
15:42:27 <Zakim> -laura_fowler
15:42:28 <Zakim> -david_stroup
15:42:28 <Zakim> -TimCole.a
15:42:30 <Zakim> -Ivan
15:42:30 <Zakim> -clapierre
15:42:31 <Zakim> -dauwhe
15:42:31 <Zakim> -pbelfanti
15:42:33 <TimCole> TimCole has left #dpub
15:42:34 <Zakim> -murakami
15:42:40 <AH_Miller> AH_Miller has joined #DPUB
15:42:42 <Zakim> -Bert
15:43:02 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:43:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/20-dpub-minutes.html ivan
15:43:22 <ivan> trackbot, end telcon
15:43:22 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:43:23 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been dauwhe, clapierre, TimCole, dkaplan3, Tzviya, pkra, +1.646.336.aaaa, murakami, MikeMiller, +1.217.300.aabb, +1.217.300.aacc, Ivan, Stearns,
15:43:23 <Zakim> ... Bert, Julie, +1.201.783.aadd, astein, pbelfanti, +1.609.216.aaee, Karen_Myers, laura_fowler, +1.585.217.aaff, david_stroup
15:43:30 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:43:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/20-dpub-minutes.html trackbot
15:43:31 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:43:31 <RRSAgent> I see no action items