15:56:33 RRSAgent has joined #audio 15:56:33 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/10/16-audio-irc 15:56:35 RRSAgent, make logs world 15:56:35 Zakim has joined #audio 15:56:37 Zakim, this will be 28346 15:56:37 ok, trackbot; I see RWC_Audio()12:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes 15:56:38 Meeting: Audio Working Group Teleconference 15:56:38 Date: 16 October 2014 15:56:45 Chair: mdjp 15:57:01 Scribe joe 15:57:08 ScribeNick: joe 15:57:11 jdsmith has joined #audio 15:57:31 RWC_Audio()12:00PM has now started 15:57:38 +jdsmith 15:57:40 Agenda+ Preview of TPAC bug review. 15:57:48 Agenda+ Survey any existing tests for Web Audio and understand general testing practice by and for browser vendors 15:57:53 Agenda+ Discuss the need for spec-clarification issues to be handled by spec editors. 15:58:01 Agenda+ AudioPanner 15:58:06 Agenda+ suspend/resume/close 15:58:15 + +1.650.253.aaaa 15:58:17 Agenda+ What priority to attach to webplatform.org? Can generation of examples follow finalization of v1 spec? 15:58:28 rrsagent, pointer? 15:58:28 See http://www.w3.org/2014/10/16-audio-irc#T15-58-28 15:58:34 Previous meeting minutes -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2014OctDec/0006.html 15:58:35 rtoyg_ has joined #audio 15:58:45 agenda? 15:59:27 +??P4 15:59:48 zakim, ??P4 is me 15:59:48 +mdjp; got it 16:00:26 joe has joined #audio 16:00:46 BillHofmann has joined #audio 16:01:04 + +1.415.645.aabb 16:01:15 + +1.617.455.aacc 16:01:32 zakim, aacc is me 16:01:32 +joe; got it 16:01:48 zakim, aabb is me 16:01:48 +BillHofmann; got it 16:01:55 zakim, who is here? 16:01:55 On the phone I see jdsmith, +1.650.253.aaaa, mdjp, BillHofmann, joe 16:01:58 On IRC I see BillHofmann, joe, rtoyg_, jdsmith, Zakim, RRSAgent, colinbdclark, marcosc, shepazu, mdjp, slightlyoff, rtoyg, Domenic, cwilso_, paul___irish, trackbot 16:02:12 zakim, aaaa is me 16:02:12 +cwilso_; got it 16:02:19 zakim, cwilso has rtoyg 16:02:19 +rtoyg; got it 16:02:38 +Doug_Schepers 16:04:19 matt: most agenda today relate to TPAC 16:05:00 matt: TPAC bug review will look through our current list of issues and try to identify some specific cases... 16:05:19 matt: some can be closed quickly, others can be tagged as essential for V1 16:05:25 https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues 16:06:18 matt: let's look in advance and flag bugs with the tag "TPAC 2014" so that we avoid looking through entire database 16:06:34 colinbdclark has joined #audio 16:06:49 q+ 16:06:52 q+ 16:07:26 ack shep 16:07:26 ack shepazu 16:07:30 kawai has joined #audio 16:07:43 zakim, take up agendum 1 16:07:43 agendum 1. "Preview of TPAC bug review." taken up [from mdjp] 16:08:02 shepazu: probably a good thing to approach bugs in this way. also a newbie mistake to concentrate on just "your issues" at TPAC 16:08:17 shepazu: also important to establish liaisons with other groups at TPAC 16:08:46 shepazu: want to make sure we don't lose the opportunity to have contact with other groups 16:09:05 ack joe 16:09:29 kawai has joined #audio 16:10:06 shepazu: I'm double booked on Tuesday with the Web Annotations group 16:10:28 shepazu: but will be able to be pinged via IRC all today 16:10:36 s/today/all day/ 16:10:44 I'd note (as previously noted) I'll be MIA Tuesday morning, but back with audio on Tuesday afternoon 16:11:09 shepazu: Chris Lilley will also be able to help with connections to other groups and to help the WG 16:11:36 +gmandyam 16:11:59 gmandyam has joined #audio 16:12:02 hoch_webaudio has joined #audio 16:13:38 zakim, take up agendum 2 16:13:38 agendum 2. "Survey any existing tests for Web Audio and understand general testing practice by and for browser vendors" taken up [from mdjp] 16:14:27 matt: We want to get a grasp on the current state of testing and udnerstand where we are and where we might be going 16:14:45 matt: we want to understand how this work can be fanned out between the WG and browser implementors if possible 16:15:07 matt: who in the WG has a grasp on the testing process so far? 16:15:39 cwilso: Chris Lowis had some understanding 16:15:48 matt: have reached out to him 16:16:19 He wrote a post about writing web audio tests, too: http://blog.chrislowis.co.uk/2014/04/30/testing-web-audio.html 16:16:35 shepazu: we should identify every testable assertion in the spec, identify interactions, identify tests that exercise assertions and their interactions 16:16:58 shepazu: typically tests are written as part of the process of implementing a spec and those are submitted to the WG 16:17:17 shepazu: often there is a "test lead" role for each spec 16:17:45 shepazu: they organize the testing specs and cajole others into writing tests 16:18:22 shepazu: the function of the Annotation functionality is intended to help in identifying and notating testable assertions. I'll demo that at TPAC 16:18:55 matt: I don't think we have a history in this WG of implementors submitting tests to the group. 16:19:33 matt: Is this something we can change in the future, i.e. can we take advantage of browser implementor tests 16:19:55 cwilso: Chris Rogers submitted all the tests at the time of the original spec creation 16:20:40 shepazu: Would be sensible to talk to all the implementors: Mozilla, Google, Apple, MS 16:20:58 shepazu: get them to review their internal tests and see which are suitable for submission to W3C 16:21:27 matt: let's take stock of this at TPAC and find a way forwards 16:22:44 zakim, take up agendum 3 16:22:44 agendum 3. "Discuss the need for spec-clarification issues to be handled by spec editors." taken up [from mdjp] 16:24:56 q+ to 1) suggest "ready to spec" flag and 2) taking ownership of tpac2014 issues. 16:25:27 ack cwilso 16:25:27 cwilso_, you wanted to 1) suggest "ready to spec" flag and 2) taking ownership of tpac2014 issues. 16:26:18 cwilso: it would be good for someone to take the lead for each tagged bug to be prepared to summarize the bug 16:26:43 cwilso: I have to admit that I'm losing track of the set of issues that are cued up for me to find the time to update the spec, and ones that I want others to look at 16:28:56 agenda? 16:29:08 joe: let's have a tag that pre-identifies bugs as "in the spec editors inbox" i.e. there's a clear resolution just waiting for application 16:29:19 zakim, take up agendum 4 16:29:19 agendum 4. "AudioPanner" taken up [from mdjp] 16:29:34 https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/368 16:29:41 https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/368 16:30:41 cwilso: this stated with an issue on mobile devices. Default mode is HRTF, which requires loading in a database that has a significant memory and bandwidth footprint 16:31:04 cwilso: so this isn't a very friendly default. Finally HRTF is really only useful for headphones 16:31:23 cwilso: I looked at the PannerNode and most people simply use this for equal-power L/R panning 16:31:55 cwilso: even that is a confusing interface because one has to work with X/Y parameters and it's not easy 16:32:24 cwilso: We see a case for two simpler nodes: a spatialization node and a "simple pan" node that just does L/R panning 16:32:40 cwilso: obviously this is a highly incompatible change 16:33:08 matt: I agree that this is rather confusing; panner does not equal what this node does at the moment 16:35:16 q+ logically makes sense - agree on compatibility issue 16:35:30 ack BillHofmann 16:36:29 q+ 16:37:16 cwilso: suggest that we break this into two issues: 1) changing the default, 2) a backwards-compatible proposal to introduce new nodes and deprecate the old 16:37:17 ack shepazu 16:38:06 shepazu: newbie question ...[self-deprecating remarks]... I tried to add a panning function to move the sounds from L to R and couldn't do it 16:38:22 shepazu: would the design of a simple pan be made easier: 16:38:33 cwilso: yes, if there was a dedicated equal-power panner node. 16:40:56 Added issue for splitting the nodes: https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/372 16:40:59 shepazu: I really like the idea of a simpler setup 16:42:19 matt: action is for Chris to propose how we will split the functionality of this node and how we'll deprecate 16:42:29 zakim, take up agendum 5 16:42:29 agendum 5. "suspend/resume/close" taken up [from mdjp] 16:42:35 https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/361 16:43:41 cwilso: I had an action a while back to raise this with the TAG and see what they thought of the pattern 16:43:48 jernoble has joined #audio 16:44:10 cwilso: they thought it was fine. also we resolved some question about layering architecture. Other feedback: close() a better name than release() 16:44:24 s/of a simpler setup/of a simpler setup, with -1 to 1 left-to-right panning/ 16:44:27 matt: then do any real issues remain? 16:45:26 cwilso: I don't think so 16:45:54 cwilso: the power consumption of nonstop audio engine operation has caused problems for some of our partners 16:46:26 zakim, take up agendum 6 16:46:26 agendum 6. "What priority to attach to webplatform.org? Can generation of examples follow finalization of v1 spec?" taken up [from mdjp] 16:47:37 q+ 16:47:48 ack shepazu 16:48:27 shepazu: webplatform docs is meant to be an unusual resources in that it's aligned to standards as well as impls. While specifically aimed at devs the aim is to get them involved in the standardization process 16:48:54 shepazu: we're writing a script that watches for specs published at w3c and sends a notification to the webplatform docs pages 16:49:21 shepazu: this at least flags the fact that the page you're looking at is out of date 16:49:57 shepazu: we're trying to keep things up to date but... you're right that impls can vary. I think the best approach would be that if there's something that's different between specs and impl, just document that change. 16:50:34 shepazu: want to also have a caniuse feature based on W3C tests 16:50:53 shepazu: short answer: we can talk about this offline 16:53:24 shepazu: let's aim for a statement on webplatform docs that clarifies the situation and doesn't mislead devs and maybe deprioritize the goal of complete docs on webplatform right now 16:53:54 matt: we do need a place that can serve as a repository of "blessed" examples of Web Audio code 16:54:05 matt: let's discuss this too at TPAC 16:54:18 matt: AOB? 16:54:38 matt: guess not. Joe and I will send around a draft agenda at TPAC 16:55:36 -BillHofmann 16:55:39 -gmandyam 16:55:42 -jdsmith 16:55:44 -cwilso_ 16:55:50 rssagent, make minutes 16:55:52 hoch_webaudio has left #audio 16:57:43 rrsagent, make minutes 16:57:43 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/16-audio-minutes.html mdjp 17:09:06 -Doug_Schepers 17:09:08 trackbot, end meeting 17:09:08 Zakim, list attendees 17:09:08 As of this point the attendees have been jdsmith, +1.650.253.aaaa, mdjp, +1.415.645.aabb, +1.617.455.aacc, joe, BillHofmann, rtoyg, Doug_Schepers, gmandyam 17:09:16 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 17:09:16 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/16-audio-minutes.html trackbot 17:09:17 RRSAgent, bye 17:09:17 I see no action items 17:09:17 -mdjp