14:57:36 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #shapes
14:57:36 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/10/15-shapes-irc
14:57:38 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs 252
14:57:38 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #shapes
14:57:40 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
14:57:40 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:57:41 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Data Shapes Working Group Teleconference
14:57:41 <trackbot> Date: 15 October 2014
14:57:54 <Arnaud> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:57:55 <hsolbrig> hsolbrig has joined #shapes
14:58:24 <Arnaud> zakim, this is shapes
14:58:24 <Zakim> ok, Arnaud; that matches DATA_RDFWG()11:00AM
14:58:48 <Zakim> + +1.408.243.aaaa
14:58:49 <phila> phila has joined #shapes
14:58:59 <ericP> ericP has joined #shapes
14:59:31 <Zakim> +deiu
15:00:02 <Zakim> +karima
15:00:06 <Nick> Nick has joined #shapes
15:00:21 <phila> zakim, call phila-mobile
15:00:21 <Zakim> ok, phila; the call is being made
15:00:23 <Zakim> +Phila
15:00:37 <SumitPurohit> SumitPurohit has joined #shapes
15:01:02 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
15:01:03 <Zakim> +Arnaud
15:01:11 <pfps> zakim, gvoice is me
15:01:11 <Zakim> +pfps; got it
15:01:20 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:01:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see David_Wood, ??P1, +1.408.243.aaaa, deiu, karima, Phila, pfps, Arnaud
15:01:22 <Zakim> +ericP
15:01:45 <Zakim> +SumitPurohit
15:02:05 <Zakim> + +1.510.435.aabb
15:02:07 <Arnaud> zakim, aaaa is DavidMartin
15:02:07 <Zakim> +DavidMartin; got it
15:02:11 <SumitPurohit> Hello Everyone, I am Sumit Purohit
15:02:25 <ericP> Zakim, aabb is kcoyle
15:02:25 <Zakim> +kcoyle; got it
15:02:33 <Zakim> + +1.978.899.aacc
15:02:38 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:02:40 <ocorby> Hello, I am Olivier Corby from INRIA
15:02:56 <ericP> Zakim, aacc is alametra
15:02:56 <Zakim> +alametra; got it
15:03:11 <simonstey> i guess i'm the ??P1
15:03:15 <Zakim> +Tony
15:03:21 <markus> markus has joined #shapes
15:03:21 <Arnaud> s/alametra/anamitra/
15:03:41 <markus> zakim, code?
15:03:41 <Zakim> the conference code is 742737 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), markus
15:03:41 <ericP> Zakim, [IPcaller] is Holger
15:03:43 <Zakim> +Holger; got it
15:03:56 <ericP> Zakim, alametra is really anamitra
15:03:57 <Zakim> sorry, ericP, I do not recognize a party named 'alametra'
15:04:12 <Zakim> +??P24
15:04:14 <markus> zakim, ??P24 is me
15:04:14 <Zakim> +markus; got it
15:04:24 <simonstey> zakim, ??P1 is me
15:04:24 <Zakim> +simonstey; got it
15:04:26 <Anamitra> Anamitra has joined #shapes
15:04:38 <pfps> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:38 <Zakim> On the phone I see David_Wood, simonstey, DavidMartin, deiu, karima, Phila, pfps, Arnaud, ericP, SumitPurohit, kcoyle, anamitra, Holger, Tony, markus
15:04:50 <Zakim> + +1.949.830.aadd
15:05:20 <hknublau> hknublau has joined #shapes
15:05:30 <ericP> Zakim, aadd is Nick
15:05:31 <Zakim> +Nick; got it
15:05:31 <ocorby> I am on the phone
15:05:40 <pfps> there is a good description of how to drive Zakim available from the W3C web site
15:06:16 <Zakim> + +1.919.977.aaee
15:06:57 <deiu> scribenick: deiu
15:07:01 <deiu> chair: Arnaud
15:07:23 <deiu> Arnaud: going over the details of how IRC and Zakim work
15:07:47 <ericP> Zakim, aaee is RalphH
15:07:47 <Zakim> +RalphH; got it
15:08:31 <andimou> andimou has joined #shapes
15:08:48 <deiu> Please say your name before speaking. It makes the scribe's life a lot easier.
15:09:32 <deiu> Arnaud: several AC reps said they supported the WG and they also intended to join, but none of them showed up for now.
15:09:42 <deiu> ... today is an informal call
15:10:08 <Zakim> + +1.609.557.aaff
15:10:08 <deiu> ...if you're not a W3C member, there is a way to participate by becoming an Invited Expert (though places are limited)
15:10:24 <deiu> ...we're being pressured not to allow people to join for free
15:10:39 <deiu> ...if it's your case, then you may request an Invited Expert status
15:11:07 <deiu> ...today we will not make any resolutions (being an informal call) so almost anyone can participate
15:11:11 <ralphtq> ralphtq has joined #shapes
15:11:29 <deiu> ...it's a good time to join the call and see if this is a WG you want to participate in
15:11:32 <Eric_Kauz> Eric_Kauz has joined #shapes
15:11:36 <ericP> Zakim, aaff is Eric_Kauz
15:11:36 <Zakim> +Eric_Kauz; got it
15:12:05 <deiu> Arnaud: today I wanted to cover several things during this call:
15:12:15 <deiu> ...we have the first F2F this month at TPAC
15:12:23 <deiu> ...I want to make use of it as much as possible
15:12:37 <deiu> ...if you haven't registered, please go ahead and do it fast
15:13:02 <deiu> ...in terms of the Actions plan, some of you may be familiar with how W3C works
15:13:11 <deiu> ...the charter defines a set of deliverables
15:13:31 <davidwood> davidwood has joined #shapes
15:13:36 <deiu> ...in our case, most of you have been witness to the mailing discussions regarding the charter
15:13:57 <deiu> ...the charter tried to outline some directions, and it created quite a bit of controversy
15:14:12 <deiu> ...many people lobbied for different technical directions
15:14:38 <deiu> ...in the end we were able to reach consensus by "watering down" the charter towards a limited technical direction
15:14:57 <Zakim> +Alexandre
15:15:09 <deiu> ...it's common practice to develop UCRs that help define the direction
15:15:27 <deiu> ...we already have a sense of what the solution is
15:15:50 <deiu> ...in this case, given the lack of agreed upon solutions, it is crucial that we take the time to define the UCRs
15:16:04 <deiu> ...and also agree on which UC we plan to address
15:16:15 <deiu> ...we have to avoid trying to address too many use cases
15:16:53 <deiu> ...the way I think we should proceed is to go through this first step with the UCs and reach consensus there
15:17:55 <deiu> ...once we reach consensus, we can look at which UC would be the most suitable one to start with
15:18:27 <SumitPurohit> noise ??
15:19:00 <Arnaud> I'm on mute
15:19:07 <Anamitra> I am on mute
15:19:42 <deiu> Arnaud: any comments/suggestions on how to approach this?
15:19:43 <pfps> +q
15:19:50 <Arnaud> ack pfps
15:19:51 <SumitPurohit> +q
15:20:08 <deiu> pfps: I would like to put in a plea that if we're going to use UCs, then they must be specific and examinable
15:20:18 <deiu> ...the DC (vocab) ones are neither
15:20:31 <deiu> ...otherwise we're going to argue about what UCs mean
15:20:35 <deiu> Arnaud: agreed
15:20:41 <Arnaud> ack SumitPurohit
15:21:04 <davidwood> I would hope that this WG would go back to DCMI to ask them to refine their use cases as necessary.
15:21:30 <deiu> SumitPurohit: I have a question: do we have the intention of proposing something involving SPARQL (@@@). The way I see it, this can lead to modifications to the SPARQL core
15:21:53 <deiu> ericP: given that there's no other WG working on SPARQL, I'm sure we would have no problem extending SPARQL
15:22:17 <deiu> Arnaud: ok then, we should talk about TPAC and logistics
15:22:25 <deiu> Topic: TPAC F2F
15:22:46 <deiu> Arnaud: we are supposed to meet face-2-face at TPAC -- a week of meetings
15:23:06 <ericP> Technical Plenary and Advisory Committee
15:23:29 <deiu> ...WGs meet most days except for Wed, when we have an ad-hoc meeting where different WGs get together for "cross-pollination"
15:24:22 <deiu> ...we are going to have our first F2F meeting then -- most meetings are hosted by one WG member who will also cover the cost of providing the catering and room
15:24:40 <deiu> ...at this point, the online registration is over, so we are a bit short on time
15:24:58 <deiu> ...if there are people who still want to attend, please let us know NOW
15:25:17 <deiu> ...there are still ways to get you to participate
15:25:41 <deiu> ...we will also plan to have remote participation via a teleconf bridge, as well as through IRC (this channel)
15:25:59 <deiu> ...it would help us to know how many people intend to do this, so please use the wiki page (@@@ URI)
15:26:06 <SumitPurohit> +1 Remote Participation
15:26:24 <deiu> ...please use this page to let us know what you would like to do
15:26:53 <deiu> Arnaud: when it comes to logistics...we're a bit late re. room reservations
15:27:09 <deiu> ...we have a room for Thursday, but for Friday we don't have a room yet
15:27:27 <deiu> ericP: right now we have 12 people who signed up and room for 16
15:27:38 <deiu> Arnaud: but that's for Thursday, right?
15:27:49 <deiu> ericP: yes, Friday we're going offsite to Peter's house
15:28:00 <deiu> Arnaud: ok, that shouldn't be an issue, it's very close
15:28:28 <Arnaud> yes
15:28:43 <deiu> pfps: yes, the room should accommodate 25 people
15:28:49 <deiu> ...there will be the usual facilities
15:28:56 <deiu> ...I will keep everyone updated
15:29:09 <deiu> Arnaud: we'll add the meeting info to the TPAC page
15:29:12 <pfps> The location on Friday (and maybe Thursday) will be at Nuance, 1198 E Arques Ave, Sunnyvale, CA
15:29:30 <deiu> ...I am local and I have a minivan (up to 7 people)
15:29:51 <deiu> ...back to the aim of the meeting (re. the action plan), I would like to have a fairly detailed agenda
15:30:00 <deiu> ...right now it might be too early for that
15:30:23 <deiu> ericP: please let me know if you plan on having on-site registration
15:30:44 <DavidMartin> I expect to join on Thursday
15:30:57 <deiu> ericP: are there any people on the call who are expected to do late registration?
15:31:00 <SumitPurohit> Not Me
15:31:05 <deiu> DavidMartin: Yes, that would be my case
15:31:13 <Nick> I have already done late registration
15:31:30 <deiu> ericP: ok, so we're meeting on-site for Thu, and then at Nuance for Friday
15:31:42 <deiu> pfps: I'll keep the reservation at Nuance for Thursday just in case
15:32:06 <deiu> Arnaud: ok, so back to the agenda, my rough idea of what we could do is to spend the first day talking about UCRs
15:32:26 <deiu> ...then the second day on candidate technologies
15:32:39 <pfps> q+ who is going to be presenting at the F2F
15:32:56 <pfps> q+ to ask who is going to be presenting at the F2F
15:33:04 <deiu> ...if we could come out of this meeting with better understanding of what people's expectations are, then we can find which one are more suitable
15:33:35 <deiu> ...I definitely hope that we can use that time to learn more about each others expectations and requirements
15:33:54 <deiu> ...we need to get everyone on the same page
15:34:10 <Arnaud> ack pfps
15:34:10 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to ask who is going to be presenting at the F2F
15:34:12 <deiu> ...does that sound reasonable so far?
15:34:12 <SumitPurohit> +1 for the plan
15:34:26 <Anamitra> +1
15:34:27 <simonstey> +1
15:34:32 <Zakim> -Holger
15:34:36 <pfps> I think that this is a reasonable plan
15:34:36 <deiu> pfps: basically to ask that question:  who is going to be presenting at the F2F?
15:34:41 <deiu> Arnaud: that's a good idea
15:34:51 <deiu> ...we should sort that out beforehand
15:35:06 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:35:51 <pfps> it also would be a good idea to have pointers to good descriptions of the proposed technologies available as soon as possible
15:35:54 <deiu> Arnaud: if people can call in remotely, they might want to do it when it's more relevant for them, so a time schedule for presentations is good to have
15:36:21 <deiu> ...back to pfps' question, it would be good to have the name of the people who want to speak and present
15:37:01 <deiu> ...if there are no more comments and questions, we can move to UCRs
15:37:11 <deiu> Topic: Use Cases and Requirements
15:37:28 <deiu> Arnaud: UCRs are part of our charter
15:37:39 <deiu> ...the typical format is a WG note
15:38:04 <deiu> ...ideally we would have UCs and requirements that support the UCs
15:38:27 <deiu> ...there are different ways to approach the development of UCRs
15:38:41 <deiu> ...somebody usually first takes a crack at it, maybe though a Wiki page
15:38:58 <deiu> ...then we will need a volunteer editor that would curate the page
15:39:27 <deiu> ...finally the WG will have to take a look at at the page and agree on which items we keep for the UCRs
15:40:01 <deiu> ...in this case, ericP prior to the launch of the WG, pinged the Dublin Core people about UCRs
15:40:17 <ericP> XQuery UC&R http://www.w3.org/TR/xquery-31-requirements/#json
15:40:28 <deiu> ericP: to give people a bit of background, here is a notion of what a UCR doc looks like
15:40:43 <ericP> DCAP UC&R: http://purl.org/net/rdf-validation
15:40:56 <deiu> ...the DC application profile people have proposed this list ^
15:41:17 <deiu> ...that's probably not how we would describe our requirements
15:41:27 <deiu> ...now I'm trying to get them and us on the same page
15:41:38 <deiu> ...they haven't had an internal review yet though
15:41:43 <ericP> my hierarchical view: http://www.w3.org/2014/10/rdfvalreqs/#R7
15:41:43 <Zakim> -pfps
15:41:56 <deiu> ...I created a hierarchical view
15:42:17 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
15:42:27 <deiu> ...in there you will see example of what it looks like in OWL as well as several other examples
15:42:35 <pfps> zakim, gvoice is me
15:42:35 <Zakim> +pfps; got it
15:42:56 <deiu> ...there are some things in there that no longer make sense
15:43:17 <deiu> ...there's a lot of work to be done to reach common ground re. requirements
15:43:37 <deiu> ...we can try to use they UCRs as a start for our WG
15:43:42 <ericP> DCAP reqs: http://lelystad.informatik.uni-mannheim.de/rdf-validation/?q=requirements/dc-requirements
15:43:49 <deiu> ...there's about 30 of those reqs they care a lot about
15:44:00 <deiu> ...that means that we only have to really look hard at those
15:44:09 <ericP> DCAP facets: http://lelystad.informatik.uni-mannheim.de/rdf-validation/?q=taxonomy/term/38
15:44:22 <deiu> ...it also turns out that they actually have a hierarchical view too
15:44:43 <deiu> ...I hope that during the F2F we will have some time to pick through them
15:45:12 <deiu> ...we want people to be able to compare apples and apples, oranges and oranges...
15:45:59 <deiu> pfps: so, I looked at a number of these Reqs, UCs and case studies...
15:46:26 <deiu> ...I'm looking at CS 7 now [looking for examples] and many don't have examples
15:46:33 <deiu> ...some of them point to looooong final reports of other groups
15:46:49 <deiu> ...I want a concise and effective description
15:47:04 <deiu> ...so somebody has to do that work [I don't want to do it]
15:47:14 <ralphtq> +q
15:47:30 <deiu> ericP: I suspect that we'd have to do some of that work, but they will also do part of it
15:47:41 <deiu> Arnaud: I agree and I was a bit overwhelmed when ericP pointed me to that list
15:47:57 <deiu> ...the amount of material there is immense
15:48:06 <deiu> ...we don't want to get drowned
15:48:30 <kcoyle> q+
15:48:40 <deiu> ericP: I have the impression that they've rephrased some of it, so I think they are also thinking about expressing the text in a language that we can use
15:48:41 <Arnaud> ack ralphtq
15:49:07 <deiu> ralphtq: I have an ontology for requirements capture, so I was thinking of ingesting all these materials into an ontology
15:49:23 <deiu> ...the point is that we're missing rational
15:50:00 <deiu> ...to the point about scrapping all of this and putting it into an RDF model...I am prepared to bring them into a tool where I can run SPARQL queries
15:50:34 <deiu> ericP: the data is all in Drupal, so we can probably just dump it, maybe in JSON-LD
15:51:16 <deiu> ericP: if you can send me a quick example of your ontology, then I'll make sure the JSON-LD representation follows that
15:51:19 <Arnaud> ack kcoyle
15:51:21 <deiu> ralphtq: will do
15:51:39 <deiu> kcoyle: I just want to say that I am here today as co-chair of the DC WG
15:52:21 <deiu> ...we think that working with this WG would help make a better database
15:52:43 <deiu> Arnaud: ralphtq, you're welcome to experiment as much as you want, of course
15:52:53 <ralphtq> +q
15:53:03 <Arnaud> ack ralphtq
15:53:03 <deiu> ...we will have to decide as a group where the reference is
15:53:27 <deiu> ralphtq: this started as a personal effort, effectively it's a semantic spreadsheet
15:53:55 <deiu> Arnaud: getting close to the end, I don't know what else we can do at this point
15:54:14 <deiu> ...we had a shared pad where everyone went and put their favorite use cases
15:54:31 <deiu> ...should we try to use it again?
15:54:46 <deiu> ericP: do you have evidence that it has been since modified
15:55:10 <deiu> Arnaud: we'll have to dive into all this and figure out what we have to extract, format and take on
15:55:47 <deiu> ...there's one last thing I forgot to mention
15:56:01 <deiu> ...I was wondering if in the week before TPAC we could have another call
15:56:31 <deiu> SumitPurohit: I think that's a good idea
15:56:36 <pfps> I am at risk next week because of ISWC, but I think that a call next week is a good idea
15:56:44 <deiu> Arnaud: do people have a preference for a date and time?
15:56:58 <Anamitra> + 1 hr earlier
15:57:00 <deiu> ericP: maybe one hour earlier?
15:57:25 <pfps> One hour earlier is problematic for those of us who work on the West Coast.
15:57:53 <SumitPurohit> I am from West Coast
15:57:59 <pfps> Two from Nuance
15:58:28 <deiu> [people discussing time]
15:58:49 <SumitPurohit> B
15:58:53 <hsolbrig> B
15:58:54 <Arnaud> strawpoll: a: 11am Boston (same) b: 10am Boston
15:59:05 <SumitPurohit> B
15:59:07 <pfps> A
15:59:08 <markus> A
15:59:08 <betehess> a: +1  b: 0
15:59:09 <simonstey> a
15:59:09 <ocorby> b
15:59:12 <ralphtq> B
15:59:13 <Anamitra> a
15:59:19 <deiu> a
15:59:21 <DavidMartin> a
15:59:22 <Nick> either works
15:59:27 <davidwood> either
15:59:36 <betehess> woops, meant a: 0  b: +1
15:59:48 <hknublau> b
15:59:51 <ericP> ⚅⚅
15:59:54 <deiu> I'm fine either way actually
15:59:55 <SumitPurohit> Note that i have my vote twice....
16:00:08 <deiu> B has one more with me going 0
16:00:37 <Anamitra> B is fine
16:00:43 <pfps> 7amPT is acceptable
16:00:44 <Zakim> -Tony
16:01:12 <deiu> RESOLVED: one hour earlier for next week's call
16:01:14 <Zakim> -Eric_Kauz
16:01:43 <Zakim> -anamitra
16:01:45 <ericP> Zakim, who was here?
16:01:45 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, ericP.
16:01:45 <phila> zakim, drop phila
16:01:46 <Zakim> Phila is being disconnected
16:01:46 <Zakim> -Phila
16:01:47 <Zakim> -simonstey
16:01:47 <Zakim> -deiu
16:01:48 <Zakim> -kcoyle
16:01:48 <Zakim> -SumitPurohit
16:01:49 <ericP> Zakim, who is here?
16:01:50 <Zakim> -Nick
16:01:50 <Zakim> -David_Wood
16:01:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see DavidMartin, karima, Arnaud, ericP, markus, RalphH, Alexandre, [IPcaller], pfps
16:01:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see davidwood, ralphtq, andimou, hknublau, Anamitra, markus, SumitPurohit, Nick, ericP, phila, hsolbrig, Zakim, RRSAgent, ocorby, trackbot, deiu, pfps, DavidMartin,
16:01:51 <Zakim> ... simonstey, kcoyle, Arnaud, betehess
16:01:51 <Zakim> -Alexandre
16:01:51 <Zakim> -DavidMartin
16:01:52 <pfps> I thought that there was a promise not to make resolutions this week  :-)
16:01:52 <Zakim> -Arnaud
16:01:52 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
16:01:53 <Zakim> -markus
16:01:55 <Zakim> -ericP
16:01:58 <Zakim> -pfps
16:02:00 <Zakim> -RalphH
16:02:44 <davidwood> davidwood has left #shapes
16:02:51 <Zakim> -karima
16:02:52 <Zakim> DATA_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended
16:02:52 <Zakim> Attendees were David_Wood, +1.408.243.aaaa, deiu, karima, Phila, Arnaud, pfps, ericP, SumitPurohit, +1.510.435.aabb, DavidMartin, kcoyle, +1.978.899.aacc, Tony, Holger, anamitra,
16:02:52 <Zakim> ... markus, simonstey, +1.949.830.aadd, Nick, +1.919.977.aaee, RalphH, +1.609.557.aaff, Eric_Kauz, Alexandre, [IPcaller]
16:46:05 <Nick> Nick has joined #shapes
17:33:31 <deiu> deiu has joined #shapes
18:39:05 <Zakim> Zakim has left #shapes