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13:00:00 <phila> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:00:09 <phila> zakim, code?
13:00:09 <Zakim> the conference code is 3224 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), phila
13:00:21 <Zakim> DATA_DACG()9:00AM has now started
13:00:28 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:00:29 <phila> zakim, ipcaller is me
13:00:29 <Zakim> +phila; got it
13:00:54 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:01:08 <tbaker> zakim, IPcaller is probably tbaker
13:01:08 <Zakim> +tbaker?; got it
13:01:12 <Zakim> +bhyland
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13:02:01 <Zakim> +David_Wood
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13:04:08 <deirdrelee> zakim [ipcaller] is me
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13:04:46 <ivan> zakim, P19 is me
13:04:46 <Zakim> sorry, ivan, I do not recognize a party named 'P19'
13:04:53 <ivan> zakim, ??P19 is me
13:04:53 <Zakim> +ivan; got it
13:05:36 <phila> Topic: DC2015
13:05:50 <ivan> zakim, mute me
13:05:50 <Zakim> ivan should now be muted
13:05:57 <phila> tbaker: WE had a half day workshop on RDF validation, then haf day panel session on same topic
13:06:19 <phila> ... one of the big topics of this year's DC conference (Austin)
13:06:38 <phila> ... in addition we had a call last night with the DC Architecture Group, working on reqs for Application profiles
13:06:44 <phila> ... EricP was there
13:06:45 <davidwood> DC-2014 conference: http://dcevents.dublincore.org/IntConf/dc-2014
13:07:16 <phila> tbaker: Thomas Bosch, Manheim, has been compiling reqs for validation. Part of them are related to what we've been talking about
13:07:20 <phila> ... bu the DB itself is much borader
13:07:21 <Zakim> +Kerstin_Forsberg
13:07:53 <phila> tbaker: It's on the agenda for thje first RDS call (2 hours' time)
13:07:59 <phila> ... a few take aways
13:08:20 <phila> ... the cultural heritage people in the group, many of whom are aggregators and handle messy data in lots of language
13:08:26 <phila> ... espeicially Europeana
13:08:46 <phila> ... is it helpful to frame the problem as one of validation as a number of them find the notion counter-productive
13:09:00 <phila> ... if we think in terms of correct/not correct
13:09:11 <phila> ... what they want is to analyse the data and ...
13:09:18 <phila> ... the Germand digital library, for eg
13:09:26 <phila> ... data reports give to the data provider
13:09:34 <davidwood> Tom's DC-2014 Tutorial on RDF Validation in the Cultural Heritage Community: http://dcevents.dublincore.org/IntConf/index/pages/view/rdfAP-Tutorial
13:09:35 <phila> ... in which they point out anything that are show stoppers
13:09:41 <davidwood> DC-2014 Special Session on RDF Application Profiles and Tools for Metadata Validation and Quality Control: http://dcevents.dublincore.org/IntConf/index/pages/view/rdfAP
13:09:48 <phila> ... but also want to make suggestions on how the data can be improved
13:10:04 <phila> ... areas where the data doesn't seem to be of good quality and how serious that is
13:10:19 <phila> ... they want to work with the suppliers
13:10:27 <phila> ... eg if you use URIs in this position it will improve the linkage etc.
13:10:32 <phila> ... that was one of the take aways
13:10:47 <phila> ... some presentations, eg a tutorial looking at SheX, SPIN etc.
13:10:59 <phila> ... the reqs database has examples in various syntaxes
13:11:07 <tbaker> http://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/dcmi-ap-rdf-14-10-2014
13:11:22 <phila> tbaker: ^^ is from last night's call.
13:11:35 <phila> ... may be a DCMI view, a database view etc.
13:11:51 <phila> ... we'll be keen from a DC perspective whether the WG takes this on as a resource
13:12:23 <davidwood> My slides are available at http://www.slideshare.net/3roundstones/w3c-data-shapes-working-group but please note that I shamelessly stole most of the contents from PhilA's blog post at http://www.w3.org/blog/data/2014/09/30/data-shapes-working-group-launched/
13:12:24 <phila> davidwood: I put a couple of links in so you don't need to find them
13:12:44 <phila> ... most of hte content is from the W3C blog post
13:12:51 <davidwood> The librarians at DC-2014 very clearly see how RDF validation can help their efforts, such as BibFrame adoption, data cleanliness of MARC records, etc. Engaging with that community is really quite important for the Data Shapes WG if you want them to adopt the eventual standard.
13:13:19 <phila> ... people like the DPLA, Kevin Ford from Loc, Richard Wallis OCLC
13:13:24 <phila> ... Karen Coyle was there
13:13:38 <phila> ... these people really see RDF validation in relation to library data very clearly
13:13:52 <phila> ... they understand where validation will assist them with Bibframe adoption etc
13:14:09 <phila> ... the flexibility to make it work etc. MARC records present specific issues
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13:14:32 <phila> ... the community is receptive to new ways of working if not tied too tightly
13:14:38 <phila> ... noting, not fixing, is useful
13:15:11 <phila> ... if the DAta Shapes WG expects to produce standards that people want to use, the library community is in the middle of this - modern cataloguing etc
13:15:27 <phila> ... but of course standards have to work for them. Need to get them into the WG somehow
13:15:48 <phila> ... if the data Activity wants a good win, then there's an opportunity to do so if we can get the people in
13:16:28 <phila> tbaker: The DC community/CH community really sees this WG as providing the tech standard but they also want a high level language with a less tech background to author profiles
13:16:39 <Zakim> +ericP
13:16:44 <phila> ... sometehing that can complie down to an underlying constraint vocab
13:17:17 <phila> ... but I think the hope is that there will be either as a result of the W3C activity, or from the DCMI activity, some sort of higher level language that is easy to use
13:17:22 <phila> ... in the CH community
13:17:32 <phila> ... that lets non-experts write application profiles
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13:18:07 <phila> davidwood: That is the challenge. The data Shapes WG needs to use those as inputs so that its outputs are not restricted to easier ones
13:18:38 <phila> ... the ones that i'm most interested in to drive UI generation are all very restrictive, but there is a fund of use cases for warnings, options etc.
13:18:44 <phila> ... flexibility in general
13:19:02 <phila> ... and they need to be captured, or there's a risk of it not providing a tech foundation for DCMI
13:19:14 <ericP> 200+ actually
13:19:19 <phila> tbaker: I should add that the reqs DV has 200+ requirements, many from the Data Shapes discussion
13:19:29 <phila> ... broader than just CH community
13:19:33 <ericP> though a lot are from a wholesale inclusion of OWL functional semantics
13:20:01 <phila> tbaker: That link to yesterday's call provides some of the context
13:20:19 <phila> ... it's Eric and Karen discussing ther reqs data base and its use
13:20:31 <phila> ericP: is here...
13:21:42 <phila> davidwood: the world needs more people like Karen Coyle
13:21:51 <phila> phila: WDYT? ericP ?
13:22:09 <phila> ericP: The prods to fix data are probably aplication side
13:22:33 <phila> ... it's likely that people will want something that helps people fix the problem, not just being told you're wrong
13:22:41 <phila> ... we'll be doing requirements for 3 months
13:22:49 <phila> ... so that's going to set the scope
13:22:56 <phila> ... whether it's MAy SHOULD MUST etc
13:23:20 <phila> davidwood: I recall that there was a list of levels... from DPLA?
13:23:32 <phila> ... 6 levels, i.e. beyond RFC 2119
13:23:39 <phila> ... maybe in the Google Doc
13:23:51 <phila> tbaker: I think mark's presentation should be online soon
13:23:57 <phila> ... it should be in that
13:24:02 <phila> ... I believe they have a star system
13:24:07 <phila> ... 1 - 5 star
13:24:49 <phila> ericP: The obvious tech approach is Must/optional/prohibited
13:25:09 <phila> ... higher than that can be done by compiling down to that short list, run check once per star
13:25:18 <phila> ... couple that with intelligent output
13:25:24 <phila> q+
13:25:43 <phila> ericP: You can still do multiple levels of conformance, even if you have binary
13:25:45 <davidwood> Rough notes from the DC-2014 panel: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ExmMZCg5mApOzNAHvL4pDS_geHuoWcj26nNW3vmmiRM/
13:25:49 <phila> ack q-
13:26:16 <davidwood> Note Tom Johnson's comments re levels of conformance.
13:27:16 <phila> bhyland: It may be obvious, but are there conduits between library and W3C beyond people like Dave and Tom?
13:27:16 <phila> davidwood: we call it Tom
13:27:35 <phila> bhyland: But is Tom doing this as part of the day job?
13:27:56 <ivan> q+
13:28:06 <phila> bhyland: We see other areas where people are reinventing wheels because they don't know about W3C
13:28:07 <Soeren> q+
13:28:11 <phila> tbaker: Well there's Eric
13:28:19 <phila> q-
13:28:24 <Zakim> -Kerstin_Forsberg
13:28:47 <phila> tbaker: Eric was talking about putting a heirarchy on the reqs database
13:28:55 <phila> ericP: I need to do some social engineering here, yes
13:28:57 <davidwood> q+ re library members
13:29:06 <phila> ack ivan
13:29:20 <Zakim> -JeniT
13:29:32 <phila> ivan: One more name... we got someone from the Loc joining the Annotation WG (Ray Denenberg)
13:29:49 <phila> ack Soeren
13:30:19 <phila> Soeren: Since you were asking about connections... my team at Fraunhofer are the ones that work on the german digital library
13:30:20 <phila> ... establishing use casesa nd connections
13:30:35 <phila> ... we do al the mappings to Europeana etc.
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13:30:49 <phila> ... I know that validation is a very time consuming job
13:30:49 <ivan> q+
13:30:56 <ericP> Soeren, any chance you'd have someone to join the validation WG/
13:31:06 <ericP> s/\//?/
13:31:23 <Zakim> +Arnaud
13:31:57 <phila> ack next
13:31:58 <Zakim> davidwood, you wanted to discuss library members
13:32:03 <davidwood> OCLC, Library of Congress are W3C members. It would be good to approach DPLA for membership. OCLC and LC should be invited to participate in the Data Shapes WG.
13:32:39 <davidwood> "Mark A. Matienzo" <mark@dp.la>
13:32:43 <davidwood> ^^ DPLA
13:33:29 <phila> ack next
13:33:34 <ivan> Emmanuelle Bermès
13:33:43 <phila> discussion about inviting DPLA to join the WG
13:34:03 <phila> ivan: ^^ Emmanuelle recently went back to French national library
13:34:18 <phila> ... the France office had a disucssion with them about poss mmebership
13:34:52 <phila> tbaker: I co-chaired trhe libraryt LD group with her and Isaac
13:34:56 <phila> q?
13:35:26 <phila> Arnaud: we have an informal call today to allow people who are considering joining to dial in today
13:35:50 <phila> ... we did have a whole list of AC reps who voted in favour of the WG, saying they would participate but who haven't joined. So we have been pinging them
13:37:03 <Zakim> -tbaker?
13:37:17 <phila> Topic: WG group updates
13:37:21 <phila> deirdrelee?
13:37:33 <deirdrelee> i'm here in google campus, so mic not working
13:38:01 <phila> ivan: The CSVW WG has been reduced to a very small active group
13:38:20 <phila> ... there have been a number of e-mail threads on converting CSV files to JSON, RDF, XML etc
13:38:27 <phila> ... but not yet reached consensus
13:38:39 <phila> ... all a bit afraid of getting itno something too cmplicated that we can't finish
13:38:55 <phila> ... there's a doc on the metadata that is fairly mature but faiely complex
13:39:04 <phila> ... we hope we'll be in good shape after TPAC
13:39:10 <deirdrelee> :\ but written report....DWBP going well, 2nd public working draft of UCR published yesterday http://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp-ucr/ Will invite new use-cases from wider community (email to be disseminated in next few days). Will discuss this in TPAC. Also progress on other deliverables
13:40:25 <phila> Arnaud: LDP should go to PR next week, probably
13:40:29 <bhyland> Topic: LDP WG
13:40:38 <phila> ... I was hoping we'd make the decision this week but it didn't happen
13:40:49 <phila> .... but we had a load of late comments... from WG members
13:41:04 <phila> ... bit disconcerting when WG members finally start paying attention
13:41:15 <phila> ... good number of implementations
13:41:30 <phila> ... one feature, Indirect Containers, that is less well supported and we're working out what to do
13:42:08 <bhyland> Linked Data Platform 1.0 - Fourth Public Working Draft - third last call (2014-09-16) see http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/WD-ldp-20140916/
13:42:10 <phila> ... LDP Paging spec. No significant comments. Same kind of comments, doesn't HTTP Range suffice? Well no, we're working towards CR with that
13:42:20 <phila> Arnaud: And we have a new LDP PATCH doc
13:42:46 <ivan> zakim, mute me
13:42:46 <Zakim> ivan should now be muted
13:42:49 <phila> ... controversial topic. People feel differently about it, hard work to get agreement on what the requiremetns were
13:42:50 <bhyland> LD Patch Format First Public Working Draft (2014-09-018), see http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/WD-ldpatch-20140918/
13:43:15 <phila> Arnaud: doesn't address all possible cases but does the ones that the WG agreed to address
13:43:50 <phila> ... why isn't SPARQL Update enough? Because it has a level of complexity that not everyone wants
13:44:02 <phila> ... we are extending the charter to end November - not long
13:44:16 <Soeren> sorry have to drop out (have to catch a plane)
13:44:18 <phila> ... we're in pretty good shape. Now talkinbg about rechartering
13:44:29 <bhyland> Topic: Big Data Europe
13:44:43 <Zakim> - +49.2.aaaa
13:45:36 <Arnaud> s/are extending/have extended/
13:46:24 <phila> Soeren Auer
13:46:26 <ivan> Sören
13:47:11 <bhyland> To German readers, more info on Soren http://www.iais.fraunhofer.de/linkedenterprisedata.html
13:47:43 <phila> bhyland: The US has been a little slow off the dime around publishing open data anda paying attention to standard but once we get going it's hard to stop
13:48:10 <phila> ... what I notice from the many events in the DC Area, ther's so much happening and people are not well informed about what other people are doing
13:48:18 <phila> ... there are Meetups
13:48:28 <phila> ... Joh Tauberer has a book out about this
13:48:36 <phila> s/Joh/Josh/
13:48:59 <phila> ... the Data Act passed in May, Prez signed it
13:49:27 <phila> ... I've given up on individual gov agencies joining W3C but we need a bridge with people like New York GovLab
13:49:39 <phila> ... to inform officers on how Web can be used
13:50:02 <phila> ... they're not going to be in the WG - too much time - but if we had a profile-raising action
13:50:19 <phila> ... at workshops, etc. then W3C will have lost their credibility and opportunity in the US
13:51:11 <davidwood> davidwood has left #dacg
13:53:10 <phila> davidwood: It's clear that there's a lot of momentum gathering around ipen data for transparency, following Transparency Act and Data Act
13:53:17 <phila> ... it's the concern du jour
13:53:27 <bhyland> FYR, Josh Tauberer's Open Government Data book as a resource: https://opengovdata.io/
13:53:31 <phila> ... but there's a line between open data/gov data and W3C
13:53:46 <phila> davidwood: people talk about this stuff without understanding where those boundarfies are
13:54:01 <deirdrelee> +1 sounds familiar to discussions within dwbp wg
13:54:59 <bhyland> Josh outlines 14 principles of Open Government Data & people are looking at these … might be helpful to have Josh informed on what W3C can do / Recommendations, WGs / Community Groups, etc.
13:56:51 <phila> phila: Talked about nascent plans for workshop in Washington next year around publishing/link with supporting data sets
13:57:17 <phila> DavidWood: Recent blog post from Nature publishing about data and publishing being intimately related
13:57:35 <phila> ... average file size is 1.3 MB, it's the complexity that's hard for them
13:58:00 <bhyland> DavidWood's reference to Nature re: size of datasets & complexity as well suited for RDF approach, see http://blogs.nature.com/scientificdata/2014/10/13/size-doesnt-matter
13:58:26 <bhyland> Title: "Size doesn't matter" 13-Oct-2014 posted by Sarah Payne, Scientific Data Updates blog
13:58:29 <phila> ... that's where W3C has been prepared for a long time.
13:59:27 <bhyland> Next meeting 19-Nov-2014
13:59:38 <bhyland> have fun at TPAC all! We'll miss you!
13:59:43 <Zakim> -ivan
13:59:44 <Zakim> -David_Wood
13:59:44 <Zakim> -bhyland
13:59:45 <deirdrelee> thanks everyone, bye
13:59:45 <Zakim> -Arnaud
13:59:48 <Zakim> -phila
13:59:52 <phila> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:59:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/15-dacg-minutes.html phila
13:59:52 <bhyland> Thanks PhilA. Interesting call!
13:59:53 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
14:00:18 <phila> scribe: phila
14:00:18 <phila> scribeNick: phila
14:00:21 <Zakim> -ericP
14:00:22 <Zakim> DATA_DACG()9:00AM has ended
14:00:23 <Zakim> Attendees were phila, tbaker?, bhyland, David_Wood, +49.2.aaaa, [IPcaller], JeniT, ivan, Kerstin_Forsberg, ericP, Arnaud
14:00:27 <phila> zakim, list attendees
14:00:27 <Zakim> sorry, phila, I don't know what conference this is
14:01:07 <phila> rrsagent, generate minutes
14:01:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/15-dacg-minutes.html phila
14:02:19 <phila> Chair: Phil
14:02:57 <phila> Regrets+ DanBri, Sebastian
14:03:02 <phila> rrsagent, generate minutes
14:03:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/15-dacg-minutes.html phila
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