IRC log of wai-wcag on 2014-10-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:53:12 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
14:53:12 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/10/14-wai-wcag-irc
14:53:14 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs public
14:53:14 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #wai-wcag
14:53:16 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
14:53:16 [Zakim]: trackbot, WAI_WCAG()11:00AM is already associated with an irc channel; use 'move WAI_WCAG to here' if you mean to reassociate the channel
14:53:17 [trackbot]: Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
14:53:17 [trackbot]: Date: 14 October 2014
14:53:29 [AWK]: Chair: Joshue
14:53:33 [AWK]: Zakim, Agenda?
14:53:33 [Zakim]: I see nothing on the agenda
14:53:49 [AWK]: regrets+ Kathy
14:54:22 [AWK]: regrets+ James
14:54:26 [Joshue]: agenda+ Finish survey from last week [from take up from 'Mobile TF proposed changes to G78' via Joshue]
14:54:36 [Joshue]: agenda+ Eric Eggert will join the call for a brief discussion on WCAG feedback on the WAI-DEV tutorials.
14:54:46 [Joshue]: agenda+ Technique needed for CSS and alt text for generated content: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/542
14:54:55 [Joshue]: agenda+ Discuss Action 274 and Mobile TF feedback
14:55:03 [Joshue]: agenda+ Follow up on Aside technique
14:55:13 [Joshue]: agenda+ TPAC Planning: Current TPAC structure and other ideas.
14:55:25 [Joshue]: regrets: Jon Avila
14:56:06 [Joshue]: regrets: Mike E, Jon A, James N, Kathy W
14:57:09 [AWK]: zakim, who is on the phone?
14:57:09 [Zakim]: sorry, AWK, I don't know what conference this is
14:57:11 [Zakim]: On IRC I see RRSAgent, AWK, bbailey, jamesn, Joshue, MichaelC, yatil, Kenny, trackbot
14:57:49 [Joshue]: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/14thOct2014/
14:58:39 [AWK]: meeting: WCAG Working Group Teleconference
14:58:52 [Joshue]: zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue
14:58:52 [Zakim]: sorry, Joshue, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcaller]'
14:59:26 [AWK]: Zakim, move WAI_WCAG to here
14:59:27 [Zakim]: ok, AWK; that matches WAI_WCAG()11:00AM
14:59:31 [AWK]: zakim, who is on the phone?
14:59:32 [Zakim]: On the phone I see +1.617.766.aaaa, [IPcaller]
14:59:37 [AWK]: zakim, aaaa is AWK
14:59:37 [Zakim]: +AWK; got it
14:59:53 [Joshue]: zakim, agenda?
14:59:53 [Zakim]: I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
14:59:54 [Zakim]: 1. Finish survey from last week [from from take up from 'Mobile TF proposed changes to G78' via Joshue via Joshue]
14:59:54 [Zakim]: 2. Eric Eggert will join the call for a brief discussion on WCAG feedback on the WAI-DEV tutorials. [from Joshue]
14:59:54 [Zakim]: 3. Technique needed for CSS and alt text for generated content: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/542 [from Joshue]
14:59:55 [Zakim]: 4. Discuss Action 274 and Mobile TF feedback [from Joshue]
14:59:57 [Zakim]: 5. Follow up on Aside technique [from Joshue]
14:59:57 [Zakim]: 6. TPAC Planning: Current TPAC structure and other ideas. [from Joshue]
15:00:10 [Joshue]: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/14thOct2014/
15:00:15 [David]: David has joined #wai-wcag
15:00:33 [Zakim]: +??P31
15:00:37 [Zakim]: +Bruce_Bailey
15:00:39 [yatil]: zakim, call EricE-Skype
15:00:39 [Zakim]: ok, yatil; the call is being made
15:00:40 [Zakim]: +EricE
15:00:53 [bbailey]: zakim, i am bruce_bailey
15:00:53 [Zakim]: ok, bbailey, I now associate you with Bruce_Bailey
15:00:57 [yatil]: zakim, nick yatil is EricE
15:00:57 [Zakim]: ok, yatil, I now associate you with EricE
15:00:58 [Joshue]: agenda+ https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/14thOct2014/
15:01:00 [Zakim]: +David_MacDonald
15:01:02 [yatil]: zakim, mute me
15:01:03 [Zakim]: EricE should now be muted
15:01:19 [MichaelC]: agenda?
15:01:55 [MichaelC]: agenda order 1,7,2
15:01:58 [MichaelC]: agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2014OctDec/0050.html
15:02:52 [Zakim]: +Katie_Haritos-Shea
15:03:15 [marcjohlic]: marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
15:03:27 [Kenny]: zakim, call kenny-mobile
15:03:28 [Zakim]: ok, Kenny; the call is being made
15:03:29 [Zakim]: +Kenny
15:03:31 [AWK]: zakim, who is on the phone?
15:03:31 [Zakim]: On the phone I see AWK, [IPcaller], Michael_Cooper, Bruce_Bailey, EricE (muted), David_MacDonald, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Kenny (muted)
15:03:50 [Joshue]: zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue
15:03:50 [Zakim]: +Joshue; got it
15:03:51 [Zakim]: +Marc_Johlic
15:04:06 [Joshue]: zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:06 [Zakim]: On the phone I see AWK, Joshue, Michael_Cooper, Bruce_Bailey, EricE (muted), David_MacDonald, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Kenny, Marc_Johlic
15:04:06 [Kenny]: zakim,mute me
15:04:09 [Zakim]: Kenny should now be muted
15:04:56 [bbailey]: scribe Bruce_
15:05:09 [bbailey]: scribe: Bruce
15:05:17 [Loretta]: Loretta has joined #WAI-WCAG
15:05:23 [MichaelC]: scribeNick: bbailey
15:05:32 [bbailey]: zakim, take up item 1
15:05:32 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "Finish survey from last week" taken up [from from take up from 'Mobile TF proposed changes to G78' via Joshue via Joshue]
15:05:36 [yatil]: s/scribe Bruce_//
15:05:45 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
15:05:59 [Loretta]: zakim, IPCaller is orretta
15:05:59 [Zakim]: +orretta; got it
15:06:07 [Loretta]: zakim orretta is Loretta
15:06:21 [bbailey]: Couple things from last week before next survey
15:06:23 [Joshue]: Mobile TF proposed changes to G78
15:06:25 [AWK]: ZAkim, take up item 1
15:06:25 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "Finish survey from last week" taken up [from from take up from 'Mobile TF proposed changes to G78' via Joshue via Joshue]
15:06:26 [yatil]: zakim, orretta is Loretta
15:06:27 [Zakim]: +Loretta; got it
15:06:28 [Joshue]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/G78
15:06:36 [yatil]: s/zakim orretta is Loretta//
15:06:36 [Joshue]: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20141007Misc/results#xg202edit
15:07:03 [bbailey]: Discussed last week, did not close
15:07:07 [AWK]: TOPIC: G78
15:07:31 [bbailey]: 6. Mobile TF proposed changes to G202
15:07:42 [bbailey]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/G202
15:07:50 [bbailey]: See new text step in wiki
15:08:07 [bbailey]: thanks to jon availl
15:08:19 [Ryladog]: Ryladog has joined #wai-wcag
15:08:50 [bbailey]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/G78
15:09:46 [AWK]: q+
15:09:50 [bbailey]: Earlier text script was a little wordy
15:09:50 [AWK]: q-
15:10:17 [bbailey]: Jon made pithy and added example
15:11:32 [bbailey]: KHR asks question about players that don't look like player, but response resolves this
15:12:22 [bbailey]: RESOLUTION: Accept G78 as ammended
15:13:08 [Joshue]: s/ammended/amended
15:13:08 [bbailey]: AWK / MC : wiki may be having problems
15:14:03 [bbailey]: Bruce sharded problem with WBS home page
15:14:30 [bbailey]: MC reports problems only sporatic,
15:14:35 [bbailey]: we continue
15:14:44 [Joshue]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/G202
15:14:50 [Joshue]: Mobile TF proposed changes to G202
15:14:53 [bbailey]: TOPIC: G202
15:15:49 [bbailey]: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20141007Misc/results#xg202edit
15:16:16 [bbailey]: Reviewing survey responses
15:16:42 [bbailey]: Discuss that some tone in proposed response may be harsh
15:17:11 [bbailey]: MC has proposed change to remove combative phrase
15:17:47 [bbailey]: AWK suggest linking to defintion of keyboard interface
15:18:10 [bbailey]: s/defintion/definition/
15:18:46 [David]: q+
15:18:54 [bbailey]: RESOLUTION: Accept G202 as amended
15:19:53 [bbailey]: Wiki login issues continues, so Micheal Cooper having to do the labor...
15:20:18 [AWK]: ack d
15:21:20 [bbailey]: Discussion of keyboard functionality versus keyboard control
15:23:10 [bbailey]: Discussion if test script as written is explicit enough wrt keyboard
15:24:29 [bbailey]: MC concerned that example is too leading for test proceedure
15:25:25 [bbailey]: There are many examples for keyboard interface, not specific to mobile, so no compelling reason to scope to mobile
15:26:14 [bbailey]: Emphasizing one example in test procedure may give it too much emphasis
15:26:49 [bbailey]: Discuss removing example from test procedure, information is in body of technique
15:27:14 [bbailey]: Reviewing text and MC suggested edit
15:28:16 [bbailey]: Accept edit to test procedure, removing example
15:28:25 [bbailey]: Return to discussion of Note
15:28:44 [Joshue]: q?
15:29:33 [Loretta]: q+
15:29:35 [AWK]: q+
15:29:36 [bbailey]: David concerned with “does not necessarily mean that each of the individual controls can be used from the keyboard”
15:30:02 [Joshue]: ack lor
15:30:14 [bbailey]: Note is already in place, was not suggested for change
15:30:46 [bbailey]: Loretta recalls that keyboard shortcut might be available for control that is not directly keyboard operable
15:31:10 [bbailey]: Requirement is for keyboard functionality, not that each control be keyboard accessible per se
15:31:45 [Joshue]: ack awk
15:31:50 [bbailey]: Example of keyboard shortcut for bold, rather than tabbing to a bold button
15:32:38 [bbailey]: AWK gives example of mouse-only click for video play, but may be other keyboard means for triggering video
15:33:00 [AWK]: q-
15:33:12 [bbailey]: David concurs that being able to do functionality from keyboard is different than each control from keyboard.
15:33:36 [bbailey]: David volunteers to bring this back for more discussion, add clarity
15:35:04 [bbailey]: ACTION: David to file issue on G202 regarding language distinguishing functionality from control and clarify necessity of keyboard accessibilty
15:35:04 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-284 - File issue on g202 regarding language distinguishing functionality from control and clarify necessity of keyboard accessibilty [on David MacDonald - due 2014-10-21].
15:35:46 [Joshue]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/G9
15:36:01 [bbailey]: TOPIC: G9
15:36:28 [bbailey]: Joshue: recaps from last week, don't want to work this too much this week
15:36:44 [MichaelC]: ack me
15:37:12 [bbailey]: KHS speaks to keeping phrasing
15:37:55 [bbailey]: Discussion is around Exampl 2
15:38:07 [bbailey]: Proposed is: Example 2: A user watches an online seminar on their mobile device, including captioning provided through the use of Communication Access Real-time Translation (CART). The captions provided also benefit in-person participants who need captioning and can view the information on their own device.
15:38:25 [MichaelC]: ack me
15:38:27 [Joshue]: Example 2: A user watches an online seminar on their mobile device, including captioning provided through the use of Communication Access Real-time Translation (CART). The captions provided also benefit in-person participants who need captioning and can view the information on their own device.
15:39:48 [bbailey]: RESOLUTION: Accept Example 2 on G9
15:40:50 [Joshue]: zakim, agenda?
15:40:50 [Zakim]: I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
15:40:52 [Zakim]: 1. Finish survey from last week [from from take up from 'Mobile TF proposed changes to G78' via Joshue via Joshue]
15:40:52 [Zakim]: 7. https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/14thOct2014/ [from Joshue]
15:40:52 [Zakim]: 2. Eric Eggert will join the call for a brief discussion on WCAG feedback on the WAI-DEV tutorials. [from Joshue]
15:40:52 [Zakim]: 3. Technique needed for CSS and alt text for generated content: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/542 [from Joshue]
15:40:56 [Zakim]: 4. Discuss Action 274 and Mobile TF feedback [from Joshue]
15:40:56 [Zakim]: 5. Follow up on Aside technique [from Joshue]
15:40:56 [Zakim]: 6. TPAC Planning: Current TPAC structure and other ideas. [from Joshue]
15:41:08 [yatil]: ack me
15:41:28 [Joshue]: zakim, take up item 2
15:41:28 [Zakim]: agendum 2. "Eric Eggert will join the call for a brief discussion on WCAG feedback on the WAI-DEV tutorials." taken up [from Joshue]
15:41:56 [bbailey]: Eric talks about WAI-ACT tutorials
15:41:58 [Joshue]: zakim, mute me
15:41:58 [Zakim]: Joshue should now be muted
15:42:24 [bbailey]: Eric has lead for editorial work, really appreciates the feedback so far
15:42:35 [yatil]: https://github.com/w3c/wai-tutorials/labels/%E2%9C%97
15:42:36 [bbailey]: Two open issues, pretty quick
15:42:47 [yatil]: https://github.com/w3c/wai-tutorials/issues/124
15:43:40 [bbailey]: Topic is Change color contrast for placeholders?
15:43:58 [Joshue]: ack me
15:44:01 [bbailey]: Is this a browser or should we address in tutoirals?
15:44:21 [bbailey]: s/tutoirals/tutorials
15:44:42 [AWK]: Contrast: https://github.com/w3c/wai-tutorials/pull/145/files?diff=split
15:45:03 [bbailey]: Other issue (carousel) is probably more straightforward
15:45:17 [yatil]: Particular line: https://github.com/w3c/wai-tutorials/pull/145/files?diff=split#diff-c9c21451eb33fff0fb847235af4bebe8L228
15:45:51 [bbailey]: KHR: definitely an issue
15:46:11 [David]: q+
15:46:19 [bbailey]: Joshue: Placeholder text came up on calls before
15:46:21 [Joshue]: ack davi
15:46:38 [bbailey]: We don't have current technique specific to placeholder
15:47:05 [bbailey]: David thinks instructions below form are pretty well addressed
15:47:24 [bbailey]: ARIA-described-by provides sufficient pointer
15:47:38 [bbailey]: Issue is more with prompts like mm/dd/yyyy
15:47:45 [Joshue]: https://github.com/w3c/wai-tutorials/issues/124
15:47:52 [yatil]: http://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/forms/instructions/#placeholder-text
15:48:04 [bbailey]: Daivd points out problem is more like prompts like mm/dd/yyyy
15:48:28 [bbailey]: s/Daivd/David
15:49:17 [bbailey]: Joshue asks if Eric might take lead with tutorials
15:49:52 [bbailey]: Eric points out that browsers do not honor contrast setting for place holder text
15:50:02 [bbailey]: Can or should we make this a browser issue?
15:50:20 [Joshue]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_@placeholder_on_input
15:50:46 [bbailey]: One approach is for page authors to specify foreground and background color on placeholder text
15:51:25 [Joshue]: q?
15:51:42 [Ryladog]: q+
15:51:44 [bbailey]: Joshue points out that more attention seems to be given from authors on placeholder attributes
15:52:01 [bbailey]: AKW comments that he likes proposed text
15:52:41 [bbailey]: Example we provide should have good contrast, so do we provide CSS code that does this?
15:52:57 [bbailey]: Or do we say this is UA / browser issue?
15:53:18 [bbailey]: Joshue thinks we have a fine line to walk on this.
15:53:58 [David]: q+
15:54:01 [bbailey]: AWK reminds that recent response was that it would be nice if browsers handled this, but for now author has to supply as matter of practice
15:54:14 [AWK]: ack r
15:55:01 [bbailey]: KHR likes that we provide example, link back to related techniques
15:55:39 [bbailey]: Authors are having difficulty with the issue, and end-user with low vision having problems reading placeholder text
15:56:14 [bbailey]: Katie thinks this is an important issue, we want browsers to change, but have to provide work-around in meantime
15:56:15 [Joshue]: ack dav
15:56:19 [AWK]: ack d
15:56:31 [bbailey]: Would be a mistake to pass on the opportunity.
15:57:08 [bbailey]: David gives hypothetical example that this might already come down to accessibility supported
15:57:54 [bbailey]: If one browser provide sufficient contrast, but that's not the end-users preferred browser, is this still a wcag contrast requirement or not?
15:58:02 [AWK]: q+
15:58:23 [bbailey]: Joshue also thinks this ties back to UAAG
15:58:35 [Joshue]: ack awk
15:58:43 [bbailey]: When using a UAAG conforming browser, issue may be addressed.
15:59:23 [bbailey]: AWK points out that accessibility support is theoretical future problem as all browsers do poorly with placeholder text
15:59:47 [Joshue]: zakim, agenda?
15:59:47 [Zakim]: I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
15:59:48 [Zakim]: 1. Finish survey from last week [from from take up from 'Mobile TF proposed changes to G78' via Joshue via Joshue]
15:59:48 [Zakim]: 7. https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/14thOct2014/ [from Joshue]
15:59:48 [Zakim]: 2. Eric Eggert will join the call for a brief discussion on WCAG feedback on the WAI-DEV tutorials. [from Joshue]
15:59:48 [Zakim]: 3. Technique needed for CSS and alt text for generated content: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/542 [from Joshue]
15:59:51 [Zakim]: 4. Discuss Action 274 and Mobile TF feedback [from Joshue]
15:59:51 [Zakim]: 5. Follow up on Aside technique [from Joshue]
15:59:51 [Zakim]: 6. TPAC Planning: Current TPAC structure and other ideas. [from Joshue]
15:59:53 [Ryladog]: q
15:59:56 [Ryladog]: +
16:00:04 [bbailey]: Response for now has to be providing examples of good contrast for place holder text
16:00:14 [Ryladog]: q+
16:00:17 [bbailey]: AWK points out for tutorial we should be providing
16:00:42 [Joshue]: ack ryla
16:00:57 [David]: UAAG #4 Optional Settings: Throughout UAAG 2.0, all required behaviors may be provided as optional preference settings unless a success criterion explicitly says otherwise. For example, if a success criterion requires high contrast between foreground text and its background, the user agent may also provide choices with low contrast. While it is preferred to have a required behavior as a...
16:00:59 [bbailey]: KHR need good user agent notes
16:00:59 [David]: ...default option, it does not need to be, unless the success criterion explicitly says otherwise.
16:02:02 [bbailey]: Joshue thanks Eric for flagging, need to address in techniques. Katie volunteer to help or review
16:02:07 [yatil]: ee@w3.org
16:03:06 [yatil]: https://github.com/w3c/wai-tutorials/issues/163
16:03:09 [AWK]: https://github.com/w3c/wai-tutorials/issues/163
16:03:27 [bbailey]: ACTION: yatil to work with Katie on providing example with CSS providing sufficient contrast for placeholder text
16:03:27 [trackbot]: Error finding 'yatil'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/users>.
16:03:56 [bbailey]: ACTION: Ryladog to work with Eric on providing example with CSS providing sufficient contrast for placeholder text
16:03:57 [trackbot]: Error finding 'Ryladog'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/users>.
16:04:11 [bbailey]: ACTION: Katieto work with Eric on providing example with CSS providing sufficient contrast for placeholder text
16:04:11 [trackbot]: Error finding 'Katieto'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/users>.
16:04:26 [bbailey]: ACTION: Katie to work with Eric on providing example with CSS providing sufficient contrast for placeholder text
16:04:26 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-285 - Work with eric on providing example with css providing sufficient contrast for placeholder text [on Katie Haritos-Shea - due 2014-10-21].
16:05:13 [bbailey]: TOPIC: Carousel interaction #163
16:05:49 [bbailey]: Eric describes problem with using ARIA live regions
16:06:40 [bbailey]: Eric asks if technique is okay as is, or do we need to expect additional work-around?
16:07:39 [bbailey]: David discusses that behavior is not too unusual for experienced screen reader user, but instruction or prompt really is needed before encountering.
16:08:03 [yatil]: s/ee@w3.org//
16:08:27 [bbailey]: Joshue points out that any way to escape, get around, or ignore carousel for keyboard users should be okay.
16:09:02 [bbailey]: Joshue asks if anyone has issue with what Eric has so far.
16:09:24 [bbailey]: No objections. David suggest providing some addition links,.
16:09:54 [bbailey]: Joshue points out that screen reader behavior can vary quite a lot from platform to platform
16:10:57 [bbailey]: David comments that we don't want to imply that way we address carousel makes them a solved problem
16:11:19 [bbailey]: Will need to emphasize that this is one solution, not only solution
16:11:23 [Joshue]: q?
16:11:37 [bbailey]: All thank Eric
16:11:43 [yatil]: zakim, mute me
16:11:43 [Zakim]: EricE should now be muted
16:11:43 [Joshue]: zakim, agenda?
16:11:44 [Zakim]: I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
16:11:44 [Zakim]: 1. Finish survey from last week [from from take up from 'Mobile TF proposed changes to G78' via Joshue via Joshue]
16:11:44 [Zakim]: 7. https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/14thOct2014/ [from Joshue]
16:11:44 [Zakim]: 2. Eric Eggert will join the call for a brief discussion on WCAG feedback on the WAI-DEV tutorials. [from Joshue]
16:11:45 [Zakim]: 3. Technique needed for CSS and alt text for generated content: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/542 [from Joshue]
16:11:45 [Zakim]: 4. Discuss Action 274 and Mobile TF feedback [from Joshue]
16:11:45 [Zakim]: 5. Follow up on Aside technique [from Joshue]
16:11:45 [Zakim]: 6. TPAC Planning: Current TPAC structure and other ideas. [from Joshue]
16:12:01 [Joshue]: zakim, next item
16:12:01 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "Finish survey from last week" taken up [from from take up from 'Mobile TF proposed changes to G78' via Joshue]
16:12:09 [Joshue]: zakim, take up item 3
16:12:09 [Zakim]: agendum 3. "Technique needed for CSS and alt text for generated content: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/542" taken up [from Joshue]
16:13:02 [Joshue]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/542
16:13:16 [bbailey]: Joshue and AKW note that we are not resolving this now
16:13:23 [AWK]: e.g. <div style="content: url(icon.png), attr(data-fallback);" data-fallback="Bar">Foo</div>
16:13:54 [bbailey]: ACTION: David to work on technique for issue 542
16:13:54 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-286 - Work on technique for issue 542 [on David MacDonald - due 2014-10-21].
16:13:55 [Joshue]: ISSUE-542: David Mac D to work on it
16:13:55 [trackbot]: Notes added to ISSUE-542 .
16:14:23 [Joshue]: q?
16:14:31 [Joshue]: zakim, agenda?
16:14:31 [Zakim]: I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
16:14:33 [Zakim]: 1. Finish survey from last week [from from take up from 'Mobile TF proposed changes to G78' via Joshue via Joshue]
16:14:33 [Zakim]: 7. https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/14thOct2014/ [from Joshue]
16:14:33 [Zakim]: 3. Technique needed for CSS and alt text for generated content: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/542 [from Joshue]
16:14:33 [Zakim]: 4. Discuss Action 274 and Mobile TF feedback [from Joshue]
16:14:34 [Zakim]: 5. Follow up on Aside technique [from Joshue]
16:14:36 [Zakim]: 6. TPAC Planning: Current TPAC structure and other ideas. [from Joshue]
16:15:02 [Joshue]: ACTION-274
16:15:02 [trackbot]: ACTION-274 -- Katie Haritos-Shea to Review description for g4 to ensure that keyboard interface support is included. -- due 2014-09-30 -- PENDINGREVIEW
16:15:02 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/274
16:15:14 [Joshue]: zakim, take up item 4
16:15:14 [Zakim]: agendum 4. "Discuss Action 274 and Mobile TF feedback" taken up [from Joshue]
16:16:28 [Joshue]: zakim, take up item 5
16:16:28 [Zakim]: agendum 5. "Follow up on Aside technique" taken up [from Joshue]
16:16:31 [Joshue]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_the_aside_element_to_indicate_tangentially_related_content
16:17:03 [bbailey]: Recall status?
16:17:05 [bbailey]: A
16:17:26 [bbailey]: AWK recalls that David and Jon Avilla working on
16:17:52 [bbailey]: Technique was post-pone from recent pub
16:20:02 [bbailey]: ACTION: David to follow-up on aside technique
16:20:02 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-287 - Follow-up on aside technique [on David MacDonald - due 2014-10-21].
16:20:18 [Joshue]: ACTION-287: David MacD to review https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_the_aside_element_to_indicate_tangentially_related_content
16:20:18 [trackbot]: Notes added to ACTION-287 Follow-up on aside technique.
16:20:40 [AWK]: TOPIC: Action 274
16:20:40 [Joshue]: ACTION-274
16:20:40 [trackbot]: ACTION-274 -- Katie Haritos-Shea to Review description for g4 to ensure that keyboard interface support is included. -- due 2014-09-30 -- PENDINGREVIEW
16:20:40 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/274
16:21:00 [AWK]: "We also discussed the proposed changes to G4. The taskforce feels that no change is required and doing so would “muddy the waters”. If the WCAG working group feels that the change is necessary, we would like this revisited to align with the keyboard language coming from the taskforce so that we have consistency and keep the techniques in synch."
16:21:30 [AWK]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/274
16:21:45 [bbailey]: AWK review changes
16:22:05 [Joshue]: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/G4.html
16:22:18 [bbailey]: Review description for g4 to ensure that keyboard interface support is included.
16:23:00 [bbailey]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/G4
16:23:15 [bbailey]: We asked mobile task force for feed back
16:23:19 [Joshue]: q?
16:23:32 [Zakim]: -Kenny
16:24:19 [bbailey]: KHR reported that she discussed with Kathy, ties back to earlier issue discussed on this call with regard to keyboard support
16:24:53 [bbailey]: Mobile group pushed back from what KHR and Kathy though was okay.
16:25:22 [bbailey]: AWK summaries status, we need to decide if we are changing G4
16:25:31 [bbailey]: Do we like having additional text?
16:26:19 [bbailey]: It is good to remind people that keyboard access is required -- but keyboard access is not specifically a related technique for G4
16:26:46 [bbailey]: AKW summarize issue is balance of being verbose versus being complete
16:27:30 [bbailey]: AKW points out that other SC are also required even when not specially mentioned
16:27:52 [AWK]: Another option: reduce description to "The objective of this technique is to provide a way to pause movement or scrolling of content. If the user needs to pause the movement, to reduce distraction or to have time to read it, they can do so, and then restart it as needed."
16:28:34 [bbailey]: Loretta points out that the issue of keyboard access come up a lot, but this technique is not especially particular to the issue
16:29:23 [AWK]: q+
16:29:25 [bbailey]: If each technique linked to everything, the techniques would get lost
16:29:29 [Joshue]: ack awk
16:29:44 [Joshue]: +1 to Loretta also
16:29:54 [bbailey]: Lots and lots of techniques could related to keyboard accessible
16:30:49 [bbailey]: AWK observes that loading up each technique with valuable accurate and helpful information makes them hard to read
16:31:22 [bbailey]: Might want to focus on main topic, rely on examples that include keyboard access
16:31:49 [Ryladog]: q=
16:31:55 [Ryladog]: q+
16:32:18 [bbailey]: Joshue concise techniques more valuable than muddying them up with related issues
16:32:46 [bbailey]: Discussion seems to be that shorter is better
16:33:16 [Joshue]: ack ryl
16:33:31 [bbailey]: David opens discussion for how to link to other things to look out for
16:34:17 [AWK]: AWK to offer possible changes to G4 per discussion on ACTION-274
16:34:23 [bbailey]: If a person comes to a particular technique, how do they get back to big picture that includes keyboard accessilbity?
16:34:41 [AWK]: ACTION-274: AWK to offer possible changes to G4 per discussion
16:34:41 [trackbot]: Notes added to ACTION-274 Review description for g4 to ensure that keyboard interface support is included..
16:35:03 [AWK]: ACTION-274: on AWK
16:35:03 [trackbot]: Notes added to ACTION-274 Review description for g4 to ensure that keyboard interface support is included..
16:35:39 [Joshue]: zaki, agenda?
16:35:42 [Joshue]: zakim, agenda?
16:35:42 [Zakim]: I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
16:35:43 [Zakim]: 1. Finish survey from last week [from from take up from 'Mobile TF proposed changes to G78' via Joshue via Joshue]
16:35:43 [Zakim]: 7. https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/14thOct2014/ [from Joshue]
16:35:43 [Zakim]: 3. Technique needed for CSS and alt text for generated content: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/542 [from Joshue]
16:35:43 [Zakim]: 4. Discuss Action 274 and Mobile TF feedback [from Joshue]
16:35:44 [Zakim]: 5. Follow up on Aside technique [from Joshue]
16:35:47 [Zakim]: 6. TPAC Planning: Current TPAC structure and other ideas. [from Joshue]
16:35:59 [Joshue]: zakim, take up item 6
16:35:59 [Zakim]: agendum 6. "TPAC Planning: Current TPAC structure and other ideas." taken up [from Joshue]
16:36:02 [Joshue]: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/14thOct2014/
16:38:42 [Zakim]: -Joshue
16:39:03 [bbailey]: trackbot, end meeting
16:39:03 [trackbot]: Zakim, list attendees
16:39:03 [Zakim]: As of this point the attendees have been +1.617.766.aaaa, AWK, Michael_Cooper, Bruce_Bailey, EricE, David_MacDonald, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Kenny, Joshue, Marc_Johlic, Loretta
16:39:11 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:39:11 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/14-wai-wcag-minutes.html trackbot
16:39:12 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, bye
16:39:12 [RRSAgent]: I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/14-wai-wcag-actions.rdf :
16:39:12 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: David to file issue on G202 regarding language distinguishing functionality from control and clarify necessity of keyboard accessibilty [1]
16:39:12 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/14-wai-wcag-irc#T15-35-04
16:39:12 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: yatil to work with Katie on providing example with CSS providing sufficient contrast for placeholder text [2]
16:39:12 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/14-wai-wcag-irc#T16-03-27
16:39:12 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Ryladog to work with Eric on providing example with CSS providing sufficient contrast for placeholder text [3]
16:39:12 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/14-wai-wcag-irc#T16-03-56
16:39:12 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Katieto work with Eric on providing example with CSS providing sufficient contrast for placeholder text [4]
16:39:12 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/14-wai-wcag-irc#T16-04-11
16:39:12 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Katie to work with Eric on providing example with CSS providing sufficient contrast for placeholder text [5]
16:39:12 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/14-wai-wcag-irc#T16-04-26
16:39:12 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: David to work on technique for issue 542 [6]
16:39:12 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/14-wai-wcag-irc#T16-13-54
16:39:12 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: David to follow-up on aside technique [7]
16:39:12 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/14-wai-wcag-irc#T16-20-02
16:39:32 [Zakim]: -EricE