IRC log of mobile-a11y on 2014-10-09

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:54:17 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #mobile-a11y
14:54:17 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/10/09-mobile-a11y-irc
14:54:19 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs public
14:54:19 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #mobile-a11y
14:54:21 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be WAI_MATF
14:54:21 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see WAI_MATF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
14:54:22 [trackbot]: Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:54:22 [trackbot]: Date: 09 October 2014
14:54:29 [KimPatch]: trackbot, start meeting
14:54:31 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs public
14:54:33 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be WAI_MATF
14:54:33 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see WAI_MATF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
14:54:34 [trackbot]: Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:54:34 [trackbot]: Date: 09 October 2014
14:54:42 [Alan_]: Alan_ has joined #mobile-a11y
14:54:44 [KimPatch]: chair: Kathleen_Wahlbin
14:55:13 [KimPatch]: agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2014Oct/0003.html
14:56:00 [KimPatch]: Agenda+ 15 minute discussion to talk about techniques people are working on.
14:56:01 [KimPatch]: Agenda+ Technique Survey (#3 – 6) - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140929_survey/
14:56:03 [KimPatch]: Agenda+ NEW survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20141007_survey/
14:56:04 [KimPatch]: Agenda+ Review technique assignments.
14:56:45 [Zakim]: WAI_MATF()11:00AM has now started
14:56:52 [Zakim]: +Kim_Patch
14:57:17 [Zakim]: +Kathy_Wahlbin
14:57:25 [Zakim]: +Alan_Smith
15:00:13 [jeanne]: jeanne has joined #mobile-a11y
15:00:34 [Zakim]: +TomB
15:00:49 [Zakim]: +Jeanne
15:01:05 [Detlev]: Detlev has joined #mobile-a11y
15:01:30 [tbabinszki]: tbabinszki has joined #mobile-a11y
15:01:45 [Zakim]: +Detlev
15:03:26 [jeanne]: scribe: jeanne
15:03:32 [jon_avila]: jon_avila has joined #mobile-a11y
15:03:37 [jeanne]: zakim, take up item 1
15:03:37 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "15 minute discussion to talk about techniques people are working on." taken up [from KimPatch]
15:04:54 [Zakim]: + +1.703.637.aaaa
15:05:06 [jon_avila]: zakim, I am aaaa
15:05:06 [Zakim]: +jon_avila; got it
15:05:08 [Zakim]: + +1.617.766.aabb
15:05:21 [jeanne]: KW: The WCAG conversation was about using terms that refer to a specific device. We should avoid words like "mobile" and reference it specifically. We can say "on a device"
15:05:39 [jeanne]: ... That's for General Techniques and HTML Techniques
15:05:45 [AWK]: AWK has joined #mobile-a11y
15:05:53 [jeanne]: ... when we get to the mobile techniques, then we can use mobile.
15:06:14 [jeanne]: ... I will look back through the ones we have already done.
15:06:45 [jeanne]: ... Kim has been going through the Techniqes specific to mobile, and we will send them back to WCAG if they need updating.
15:07:09 [jeanne]: ... we will get further direction on that when it is ready
15:07:20 [Kathy]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Technique_Development_Assignments
15:07:35 [jeanne]: KW: We want to get Techniques written that are specific to Mobile before the 18 Nov deadline.
15:08:06 [jeanne]: ... please take assignments from that list, so we are also releasing Techniques that are specific to Mobile.
15:08:23 [jeanne]: ... also pick the ones that are most important or higher priority for developers to know.
15:08:53 [jeanne]: ... I want everyone to do at least 1 before the Nov deadline, so they will get into the next publication.
15:09:35 [jeanne]: ... if you are not comfortable with writing Techniques, if you need support, we can work on parts of that during the meeting, or pair people up.
15:09:48 [KimPatch]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Mobile_Technique_Template
15:09:49 [jeanne]: KP: There is a Mobile Technique template
15:10:27 [jeanne]: KW: Any questions on current Techniques/
15:10:32 [Kathy]: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140929_survey/results#xq3
15:10:42 [jeanne]: [no questions]
15:10:47 [jeanne]: zakim, take up next
15:10:47 [Zakim]: agendum 2. "Technique Survey (#3 – 6) - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140929_survey/" taken up [from KimPatch]
15:11:11 [jeanne]: KW: There are several that were accepted as proposed.
15:11:53 [jeanne]: RESOLUTION: Accept G60 and G53 as proposed
15:12:30 [Kathy]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/G85
15:12:39 [jeanne]: Topic: G85
15:13:00 [Tim]: Tim has joined #mobile-a11y
15:13:02 [AWK]: all of the differences are marked with @@?
15:14:32 [jeanne]: KP: I see one use of the word "mobile"
15:15:13 [jeanne]: JA: We could use "small screen device" because the error would not be visible onscreen.
15:15:51 [jeanne]: KP: What about vibration? This is a very specific instance, and it is strange to think of a device with vibration that isn't a mobile device.
15:16:02 [jeanne]: It could be a wearable with vibration
15:16:44 [jeanne]: AWK: What does the vibration have to do with this Technique.
15:17:04 [jeanne]: regrets+ JanRichards
15:17:37 [Kathy]: For example, for a device with a smaller screen an inline error may be displayed to indicate that an error has occurred.
15:17:42 [Detlev]: Suggested changes, Examples, fourth bullet: may be reformulate to: "Client side scripting @@@ or native error handling @@@ detects the error and modifies the document to provide a text description next to the form fields with the error." Third bullet point can then go.
15:19:14 [jeanne]: Detlev: The bullet points look nearly identical. Include the option that HTML5 native error handling may also be a part, but I don't know if we need to cover it because it is not a mobile-related change. Perhaps this should be passed back to the working group.
15:19:18 [jon_avila]: q?
15:19:53 [jeanne]: KW: I think since we have already done it, let's continue to send it to WCAAG, but if they disagree, we should remove it and not make further changes.
15:20:15 [jeanne]: JA: Not all mobile devices are supporting HTML5 error handling
15:20:27 [jeanne]: KW: We could take it out since it is not specific
15:20:56 [jeanne]: JA: Do we have alerts covered if we remove it? It seems to be covered in 1.
15:21:37 [jeanne]: DF: Since you didn't put something in a required field, it would give a popup or message that handles the error client-side.
15:21:54 [jeanne]: JA: I agree, we don't need to force one
15:22:02 [AWK]: q+
15:22:14 [jeanne]: KW: Agree to remove example #4
15:23:01 [jeanne]: DF: My suggestion is to add "native error handling" and remove the phrase on submit, because that is no longer necessary to the Technique.
15:23:19 [AWK]: suggest: The client-side scripting or native error-handling also modifies the labels of the fields with the problems to highlight them and sets the focus on the first error.
15:23:24 [AWK]: ack me
15:23:51 [jeanne]: AWK: The one thing about the 4th bullet, that is moving the focus to the first error, that should be moved to the 3rd bullet
15:24:31 [jon_avila]: q?
15:24:53 [jeanne]: JA: If we are thinking about a situation with bullet 4 simply as you tabbed around.
15:25:23 [jeanne]: KW: We were thinking of mobile device without a list of errors at the top of the screen, so we were thinking about how to display error messages on a small screen.
15:26:02 [jeanne]: JA: An example of the user exiting the field with the validation done at that time, with focus returning to the field.
15:26:27 [jeanne]: ... it isn't unique to mobile. It would take more scrutiny and need more agreement if we did put it in?
15:27:56 [jeanne]: AWK: Either way works for me. There is an error, and when the user moves focus away from that field, it displays the error and moves the focus back for them.
15:28:40 [jeanne]: DF: I would also change "and moves on to the next field" instead of Submit
15:28:52 [jon_avila]: q?
15:29:44 [jeanne]: JA: We are morphing the example and moving away from the user Submit the form. We need both.
15:30:14 [jeanne]: ... so we can change bullet 3 back to the server side scripting
15:31:05 [jeanne]: Alan: putting the @@ around the modified text really helps us to see it.
15:31:38 [jeanne]: JA: I think we need to send this back for more work?
15:31:56 [jeanne]: KW: We will leave this and Jon will write a new example.
15:32:01 [jeanne]: Topic: SCR37
15:32:51 [jeanne]: Jan had suggested leaving it open and suggested it be left motile
15:33:16 [jeanne]: s/Jan had /KW: Jan had
15:34:02 [jeanne]: KP: Can we say "swipe gestures" so it is less necessary to say mobile
15:34:21 [jeanne]: [agreement]
15:34:45 [jeanne]: KW: ARe there some proposaed changes?
15:34:48 [KimPatch]: should remove (including mobile devices)
15:36:21 [jeanne]: JA: #3 says the dialog is next in the focus order, or we could say, focus is moved
15:36:39 [jeanne]: DF: That's the same thing - one is developer viewpoint, other is user.
15:36:56 [jeanne]: Alan: would a reading focus make a difference?
15:37:07 [jeanne]: jA: There has to be a way of closing the
15:37:30 [jeanne]: ... dialog box. I don't know how specific we should get. There are many ways to handle it.
15:38:17 [jeanne]: KP: should we note the change?
15:38:37 [jeanne]: KW: We have to keep a clean copy for WCAG. It should go in the Notes
15:39:07 [jeanne]: KP: The History is good to keep track so we don't repeat the same discussion later.
15:39:31 [jeanne]: JA: The View History page in the wiki will show who updated the page and what was updated
15:39:40 [jeanne]: KP: But it is harder to do it?
15:40:02 [jeanne]: s/ harder to do it?/ harder to do it.
15:40:37 [jeanne]: KP: it's a matter of what is more important. If we don't need it, then clean it up.
15:41:20 [jeanne]: DF: I wonder if we need to include the closing part which talks about closing in a device-independent way. IT isn't in the Test Procedure now.
15:41:31 [jeanne]: KW: The description is very keyboard focused.
15:41:59 [jeanne]: ... if we are going to change the other language, which should also fix that it isn't a physical keyboard.
15:42:16 [jeanne]: JA: It has many other issues that go beyond mobile that need to be addressed?
15:42:40 [jeanne]: KW: AMK, should we send this to WCAG?
15:43:10 [jeanne]: AWK: Yes, that should work. It would be helpful to point it out and WCAG will ask for someone to amend it.
15:43:32 [jeanne]: ... we won't tell you not to make suggestions beyond mobile
15:44:07 [jeanne]: JA: I want us to focus on mobile than try to fix all the issues around forms and dialog.
15:45:41 [jeanne]: DF: I think we should include swiping for gestures?
15:45:51 [jeanne]: KW: I think it has more issues.
15:46:14 [jeanne]: DF: I will make a list of things we should change. Others can make suggestions to what else needs changing.
15:46:32 [jeanne]: KW: Put it in the status area up top, and list suggestions for WCAG WG to address.
15:47:09 [jeanne]: ... we are trying to make sure it doesn't exclude mobile. We want to look at it in a device independent way that doesn't exclude mobile.
15:47:46 [Kathy]: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20141007_survey/results
15:47:49 [jeanne]: zakim, next item
15:47:50 [Zakim]: agendum 3. "NEW survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20141007_survey/" taken up [from KimPatch]
15:49:00 [jeanne]: Topic: G61
15:49:21 [jeanne]: DF: Do we want to include something on small screen that changes orientation? It changes order.
15:49:32 [jeanne]: KW: It doens't change order in that orientation
15:50:01 [jon_avila]: Did we finish talking about g53 from the prior survey?
15:50:16 [jeanne]: KW: We do have a phrase that includes orientation
15:51:33 [jeanne]: RESOLUTION: G61 is accepted as proposed.
15:52:47 [jeanne]: Topic: G53
15:53:45 [jeanne]: JA: The purpose of the technique, is that the focus stays on the link while reading the context. I don't know any way that would work on Android on iOS.
15:54:15 [jeanne]: DF: That is correct. You have to move the focus and bring it back. It is easy for an experienced user, but it is true.
15:54:26 [jeanne]: KW: We could add that to the user notes.
15:54:38 [jeanne]: [group agrees]
15:54:56 [Detlev]: +1
15:55:11 [Alan_]: Sorry, I had to step away for a few minutes, I'm back.
15:55:14 [jeanne]: RESOLUTION: G53 accepted as amended.
15:55:33 [jeanne]: Topic: G82
15:55:39 [Kathy]: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20141007_survey/results
15:56:29 [jeanne]: DF: The description of the Canvas game sentence didn't make sense to me.
15:57:05 [jeanne]: G87 is amended according to comments on the survey
15:59:03 [jeanne]: KW: Reminder to work on new mobile Techniques so we can have some on the next WCAG release.
16:01:27 [Zakim]: -Alan_Smith
16:01:28 [Zakim]: -jon_avila
16:01:28 [Detlev]: bye
16:01:29 [jeanne]: s/ G87 is amended/ G82 is amended
16:01:30 [Zakim]: - +1.617.766.aabb
16:01:31 [Zakim]: -TomB
16:01:31 [Zakim]: -Kathy_Wahlbin
16:01:36 [Zakim]: -Detlev
16:01:37 [jeanne]: rrsagent, make minutes
16:01:37 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/09-mobile-a11y-minutes.html jeanne
16:01:47 [Zakim]: -Kim_Patch
16:01:53 [jeanne]: rrsagent, make logs public
16:02:14 [Zakim]: -Jeanne
16:02:14 [Zakim]: WAI_MATF()11:00AM has ended
16:02:14 [Zakim]: Attendees were Kim_Patch, Kathy_Wahlbin, Alan_Smith, TomB, Jeanne, Detlev, +1.703.637.aaaa, jon_avila, +1.617.766.aabb
16:02:49 [jeanne]: present- +1.703.637.aaaa, +1.617.766.aabb
16:02:56 [jeanne]: regrets+ Brent
16:03:06 [jeanne]: rrsagent, make minutes
16:03:06 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/09-mobile-a11y-minutes.html jeanne
16:04:10 [jeanne]: s/RESOLUTION: Accept G60 and G53 as proposed/RESOLUTION: Accept G60 as proposed
16:04:20 [jeanne]: rrsagent, make minutes
16:04:20 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/09-mobile-a11y-minutes.html jeanne
16:42:37 [jeanne]: rrsagent, bye
16:42:37 [RRSAgent]: I see no action items