14:58:17 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
14:58:17 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/10/08-forms-irc
14:58:19 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:58:19 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #forms
14:58:21 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XForms
14:58:22 <trackbot> Meeting: Forms Working Group Teleconference
14:58:22 <trackbot> Date: 08 October 2014
14:58:22 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_XForms()11:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
14:58:38 <Steven_> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2014Oct/0007
14:58:45 <Steven_> Steven_ has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2014Oct/0007
14:58:49 <Steven_> Chair: Steven
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15:01:00 <ebruchez> ebruchez has joined #forms
15:01:11 <nvdbleek> will be running late a couple minutes
15:01:30 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has now started
15:01:38 <Zakim> +??P12
15:01:43 <Steven_> zakim, I am ?
15:01:44 <Zakim> +Steven_; got it
15:02:20 <Zakim> +pfennell
15:02:25 <Zakim> +ebruchez
15:02:45 <pfennell> pfennell has joined #forms
15:03:14 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:03:15 <alain> Zakim, I am [IPcaller]
15:03:15 <Zakim> ok, alain, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
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15:08:57 <Steven_> Topic: Call next week
15:08:57 <Steven_> [Regrets from me]
15:09:24 <Steven_> Steven: I'm away next week.
15:09:33 <Steven_> Erik: Let's skip next week then
15:09:40 <Steven_> Alain: Agree. I can't come either
15:09:54 <Steven_> Topic: DST
15:09:54 <Steven_> Advance warning.
15:09:54 <Steven_> Ends North America Sunday, November 2, 2014
15:09:54 <Steven_> Ends Europe Sunday October 26, 2014
15:11:01 <Steven_> Steven: The last week of October the call will be a different time for Europeans, but that is also the week of TPAC, so we may not even have a call.
15:11:11 <Steven_> Topic: TPAC meeting
15:11:11 <Steven_> http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/
15:11:11 <Steven_> Meeting 31 Oct, modulo Erik's Halloween march
15:11:36 <Steven_> Erik: That should be alright.
15:11:43 <Steven_> Topic: Review of Section 1-3
15:11:43 <Steven_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2014Sep/0016
15:11:52 <Steven_> Steven: I made all the changes agreed on.
15:12:14 <Steven_> Erik: I still have to make the changes for points 4 & 5 from my email.
15:12:29 <Steven_> Steven: You can do a diff to see the changes so far.
15:12:39 <Steven_> Topic: Review of Section 4-6
15:12:39 <Steven_> https://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0#Expressions_in_XForms
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15:13:49 <Steven_> Steven: The functions are defined in Topic: Review of Section 4-6
15:13:49 <Steven_> https://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0#Expressions_in_XForms
15:14:00 <Steven_> Follow the second link from there
15:14:17 <Steven_> Steven: ANd Alain asked: "At "6.1 Model Item Property Definitions", I am not convinced that allowing
15:14:17 <Steven_> multiple type properties is effectively a good idea. For implementors, this
15:14:17 <Steven_> means multiple types per node. For authors, it might be better to explicitly
15:14:17 <Steven_> define extra types. Anyone with a use case??
15:14:17 <Steven_> "
15:15:07 <Steven_> Steven: So the question is, does having multiple types make sense? We forbid multiple calculates, sop we could also forbid multiple types.
15:15:25 <Steven_> Steven: Erik, do you have experience, or use cases?
15:15:33 <Steven_> Erik: I don't see the purpose.
15:16:32 <Steven_> ... I don't know what you would do with a conflict either
15:17:07 <Steven_> Steven: So Alain is proposing we disallow multiple types on a bind.
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15:17:55 <Steven_> Erik: Types can be assigned dynamically via a bind, so we have to decide what happens when you discover it.
15:18:25 <Steven_> ... stopping processing is not a good solution
15:18:40 <Steven_> ... we could make this a binding error
15:19:08 <nvdbleek> zakim, code?
15:19:08 <Zakim> the conference code is 93676 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), nvdbleek
15:19:40 <Steven_> Steven: What if the same node got bound to the same type twice, would that also be an error?
15:20:52 <Steven_> Erik: And what if two types are compatible? Such as a string and a restricted string?
15:21:46 <Zakim> +nvdbleek
15:22:36 <Steven_> ... or xs:decimal and xf:decimal
15:23:37 <Steven_> ... 1) we could strictly disallow, 2) allow equality or 3) allow compatibility.
15:24:08 <Steven_> Steven: Or you could require it to be validated against both types.
15:25:35 <Steven_> ... one could be an int <100, and the other an int > 10
15:26:04 <Steven_> Erik: Not sure if there is much utility to allow more than one type.
15:26:44 <Steven_> Steven: And I hear ALain saying that it is hard to implement.
15:26:49 <Steven_> s/AL/Al/
15:27:22 <Steven_> Erik, we could disallow it, and dispatch an error event, or we could just accept one or the other.
15:27:35 <Steven_> s/Erik,/Erik:/
15:28:38 <Steven_> Steven: The current spec says it has to conform to all types
15:28:57 <Steven_> Erik: I don't know even what Orbeon does.
15:29:34 <Steven_> Steven: Let's decide this at a future call.
15:29:53 <Steven_> ACTION: Erik to send mail listing options for the bind to multiple types problem.
15:29:54 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1979 - Send mail listing options for the bind to multiple types problem. [on Erik Bruchez - due 2014-10-15].
15:31:02 <Steven_> Steven: https://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0#Typed_Values
15:31:24 <Steven_> ... "When the expression language is XPath 2.0 or newer, or XQuery 1.0 or newer,"
15:31:50 <Steven_> ... where does that come from?
15:32:31 <Steven_> Erik: This would be a hypothetical case (XQuery)
15:41:54 <Steven_> Steven: "if the expression is any other type of expression, the error is considered a dynamic error"
15:42:07 <Steven_> Erik: Make it an expression error event
15:42:19 <Steven_> Steven: "Editorial note: xs:untypedAtomic"
15:42:23 <Steven_> Erik: Remove the note
15:45:12 <Steven_> Steven: In the examples such as https://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0#The_type_Property
15:45:41 <Steven_> ... they are too complicated, you immediately get confronted with schemas, I propose some simpler examples first.
15:46:43 <Steven_> Steven: https://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0#The_required_Property
15:46:58 <Steven_> ... "An XForms Processor must provide an indication that a form control is required, "
15:47:40 <Steven_> ... that is a MUST I suppose
15:47:56 <nvdbleek> RFC 2119 to be correct
15:49:36 <Steven_> Steven: "whose expression is evaluated, converted to a string with the string conversion function as described in the expression module, and stored as the value content of the calculated data node."
15:49:42 <Steven_> https://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0#The_calculate_Property
15:50:39 <Steven_> Steven: is that "converted to a string with the string conversion function" necessary?
15:51:03 <Steven_> Erik: Yes.
15:51:46 <Steven_> https://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0#The_constraint_Property
15:52:04 <Steven_> Steven: "Note:
15:52:04 <Steven_> Specifying minimum and maximum occurrences for nodes in the instance data can be achieved by using the count() function within a constraint property."
15:52:24 <Steven_> Steven: What are we trying to say here?
15:53:18 <Steven_> Steven: Better as an example?
15:53:30 <Steven_> Erik: Or remove entirely, preferable I think
15:54:42 <nvdbleek> no
15:54:52 <Steven_> Steven: Anyone else got comments on 4, 5, 6?
15:55:12 <Steven_> Steven: Next call, section 7, quite a big section, in 2 week's time.
15:55:23 <Steven_> Topic: AOB?
15:55:27 <Steven_> [None]
15:55:34 <Steven_> [ADJOURN]
15:55:37 <Zakim> -pfennell
15:55:38 <Zakim> -ebruchez
15:55:39 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
15:55:40 <Zakim> -nvdbleek
15:55:40 <Zakim> -Steven_
15:55:41 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has ended
15:55:41 <Zakim> Attendees were Steven_, pfennell, ebruchez, [IPcaller], nvdbleek
15:55:59 <Steven_> rrsagent, make minutes
15:55:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/08-forms-minutes.html Steven_
15:56:35 <Steven_> present+Alain
15:57:24 <Steven_> s/ANd/And/
15:58:26 <Steven_> rrsagent, make minutes
15:58:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/08-forms-minutes.html Steven_
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