16:02:33 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dwbp
16:02:33 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/10/02-dwbp-irc
16:02:35 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs 351
16:02:35 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dwbp
16:02:37 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DWBP
16:02:37 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see DATA_DWBP()12:00PM already started
16:02:38 <trackbot> Meeting: Data on the Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
16:02:38 <trackbot> Date: 02 October 2014
16:02:40 <Zakim> -??P20
16:03:27 <ericstephan> Are you able to hear me on the phone?
16:03:44 <ericstephan> I thought I heard someone join, but then again... :-)
16:03:56 <hadleybeeman> I'm afraid I'm not on the phone.  Do you need me to dial in?  I'm only here for a few mins... but I can call, if you like.
16:04:27 <ericstephan> No its fine, I just didn't know :-)
16:05:09 <hadleybeeman> Okay.  Nice agenda, by the way!
16:05:28 <hadleybeeman> I went to prepare the agenda for tomorrow and put in the wrong date... I was very confused to see that it was already done. :)
16:05:33 <MakxDekkers> MakxDekkers has joined #dwbp
16:05:55 <ericstephan> Thank you, yes Phil has taught me well.
16:06:28 <ericstephan> I think everyone else is on IRC
16:06:48 <Zakim> + +3567922aaaa
16:06:48 <Zakim> + +44.796.910.aabb
16:07:16 <markharrison> markharrison has joined #dwbp
16:07:34 <markharrison> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:07:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see ericstephan, +3567922aaaa, +44.796.910.aabb
16:08:01 <jerdeb> Zakim +356 is me
16:08:04 <markharrison> zakim, aabb is markharrison
16:08:04 <Zakim> +markharrison; got it
16:08:09 <hadleybeeman> zakim, aaaa is jerdeb
16:08:10 <Zakim> +jerdeb; got it
16:10:05 <ericstephan> Hmmm the agenda was here....https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/__wiki/Meetings:Telecon20141002 I thought...
16:10:32 <jerdeb> there is an agenda here: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20141002
16:10:59 <ericstephan> Ah perfect!
16:11:16 <hadleybeeman> hadleybeeman has changed the topic to: Vocabs agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20141002
16:11:55 <BernadetteLoscio> BernadetteLoscio has joined #dwbp
16:12:06 <jerdeb> scribe: jerdeb
16:12:33 <ericstephan> scribenick: jerdeb
16:12:50 <markharrison> zakim, scribenick is jerdeb
16:12:50 <Zakim> sorry, markharrison, I do not recognize a party named 'scribenick'
16:13:06 <ericstephan> ScribeNick: jerdeb
16:13:21 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:13:31 <BernadetteLoscio> zakim, ipcaller is BernadetteLoscio
16:13:31 <Zakim> +BernadetteLoscio; got it
16:14:09 <BernadetteLoscio> i cant hear
16:14:10 <ericstephan> zakim, who is noisy?
16:14:17 <markharrison> zakim, who is speaking?
16:14:21 <Zakim> ericstephan, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds
16:14:24 <BernadetteLoscio> zakim, mute BernadetteLoscio
16:14:24 <Zakim> BernadetteLoscio should now be muted
16:14:32 <Zakim> markharrison, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: markharrison (4%), ericstephan (10%)
16:17:00 <ericstephan> phila will you be able to join by phone?
16:17:08 <MakxDekkers> MakxDekkers has joined #dwbp
16:17:52 <ericstephan> TOPIC:  Review the UCR and see just what requirements are in there and think about how we're going to address them.
16:18:44 <jerdeb> ericstephan: generally how we are going to address them by vocabularies... discussing with bernadette what are the missing requirements
16:18:55 <ericstephan> http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/usecasesv1.html
16:19:15 <Zakim> -markharrison
16:19:39 <markharrison> lost audio connection - will try to rejoin
16:20:15 <jerdeb> ericstephan: document on github (http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/usecasesv1.html) requirements - what kind of requirements do we need to propose?
16:21:03 <Zakim> + +44.122.352.aacc
16:21:21 <markharrison> zakim, aacc is markharrison
16:21:21 <Zakim> +markharrison; got it
16:22:06 <BernadetteLoscio> zakim, unmute BernadetteLoscio
16:22:06 <Zakim> BernadetteLoscio should no longer be muted
16:22:21 <jerdeb> ericstephan: discussions we had in terms of the data usage vocab might have some synergies with the data quality and granularity vocab
16:23:27 <jerdeb> bernardette: requirements in usecase document are general.. they should be more specific..
16:24:28 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:24:33 <phila> zakim, ipcaller is me
16:24:33 <Zakim> +phila; got it
16:24:40 <jerdeb> ericstephan: one of the more interesting things is that from certain use cases you cannot derive direct(?) information about data usage
16:25:50 <phila> Looks Om to me
16:26:10 <phila> http://philarcher1.github.io/dwbp-1/usecasesv1.html#UC-BuildingEye
16:26:14 <ericstephan> ericstephan has joined #dwbp
16:27:30 <jerdeb> ericstephan: the building eye use case has multiple perspectives: 1) vision of what open data can do
16:28:14 <jerdeb> phila: reading individual use cases, it is true that you can pull a lot of different things and can be interpreted in different ways
16:29:19 <jerdeb> phila: depends on the level of detail one wants to go in each use case to derive requirements
16:29:23 <ericstephan> For example:  R-DataUnavailabilityReference: Some open data is related to data intentionally closed, taken offline, but the citation of the closed data source is important to data users as well as its designation as closed.
16:31:27 <jerdeb> ericstephan: do we have enough requirements atm for data usage?
16:31:57 <jerdeb> phila: we have enough, but maybe not for the example just mentioned
16:33:34 <BernadetteLoscio> zakim, mute BernadetteLoscio
16:33:34 <Zakim> BernadetteLoscio should now be muted
16:33:46 <phila> GS1 Use case http://philarcher1.github.io/dwbp-1/usecasesv1.html#UC-GS1-Digital
16:33:59 <jerdeb> ? : one use case we are interested in are consumer services for products on the web
16:34:21 <BernadetteLoscio> markharrison is speaking
16:34:23 <phila> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:34:55 <jerdeb> sorry cannot hear anything
16:35:12 <phila> zakim, mute BernadetteLoscio
16:35:12 <Zakim> BernadetteLoscio was already muted, phila
16:35:44 <phila> phila: The use case you just gave, Mark, covering published but redacted data is interesting
16:35:56 <phila> markharrison: we could work on a UC with that aspect
16:36:02 <jerdeb> ericstephan: can we get a number of requirements - maybe set up a wiki page to contribute to
16:36:21 <jerdeb> ericstephan: these would help in building the vocabularies
16:36:45 <jerdeb> ericstephan: this has to be done this week (this thursday 3/10 and next thursday 10/10)
16:37:16 <BernadetteLoscio> zakim, unmute BernadetteLoscio
16:37:16 <Zakim> BernadetteLoscio should no longer be muted
16:37:25 <markharrison> phila: happy to do so re redacted data - I was thinking in particular of redacted traceability data for consumers, without revealing commercially sensitive details
16:37:49 <jerdeb> phila: work on use cases and have them published by 14/10.. a week before tpac
16:38:59 <phila> The wiki page for additional use cases is at https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Use_Cases
16:41:10 <markharrison> q+
16:41:25 <jerdeb> phila: add new use cases suggested via email
16:42:41 <BernadetteLoscio> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Data_Usage_Use_Cases
16:43:25 <jerdeb> ericstephan: what are the things that are useful to talk about data usage activities taking part in the use cases?
16:43:28 <ericstephan> ack markharrison
16:43:34 <BernadetteLoscio> zakim, mute BernadetteLoscio
16:43:34 <Zakim> BernadetteLoscio should now be muted
16:44:04 <BernadetteLoscio> yes!
16:44:05 <BernadetteLoscio> :)
16:44:12 <BernadetteLoscio> zakim, unmute BernadetteLoscio
16:44:12 <Zakim> BernadetteLoscio should no longer be muted
16:45:47 <jerdeb> bernardette: (re: wiki page) organise ideas about data usage.. different types of data usage activities and applications(?) .. how to describe data usage and feedback...
16:46:20 <jerdeb> bernardette: we need to discuss any overlaps(?) with data quality vocabulary..
16:47:03 <phila> q+ to quiz Bernadette a little
16:47:28 <jerdeb> bernardette: extracting information from use cases for describing vocabularies... maybe we should try to write use cases to map them with the vocabularies
16:48:58 <phila> ack me
16:48:58 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to quiz Bernadette a little
16:49:02 <ericstephan> ack phila
16:49:25 <BernadetteLoscio> zakim, mute BernadetteLoscio
16:49:25 <Zakim> BernadetteLoscio should now be muted
16:50:20 <jerdeb> sorry phil, can you write the issue? i have a big echo here cannot hear you well
16:51:02 <phila> I'm saying that I'm a little concerned about spending more time on developing more use case. Do we have enough to make a start on the other deliverables?
16:51:03 <BernadetteLoscio> me too... echo here
16:51:10 <phila> zakim, who is noisy?
16:51:21 <Zakim> phila, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: markharrison (77%), ericstephan (54%)
16:51:21 <BernadetteLoscio> zakim, unmute BernadetteLoscio
16:51:23 <Zakim> BernadetteLoscio should no longer be muted
16:51:28 <phila> zakim, mute markharrison
16:51:29 <Zakim> markharrison should now be muted
16:51:54 <phila> ericstephan: I'm not talking about applying the template to the existing use cases
16:52:04 <jerdeb> bernardette: we can try to write some use cases from the pov of data usage
16:52:10 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: I'm thinking that we could maybe write some use cases from the data usage vocab point of view
16:52:27 <jerdeb> bernardette: we should show people what we mean by data usage
16:53:19 <BernadetteLoscio> zakim, mute BernadetteLoscio
16:53:19 <Zakim> BernadetteLoscio should now be muted
16:53:45 <jerdeb> phila: it is important to show what we mean by data usage... we can give some scenarios/examples where we can use it
16:53:58 <jerdeb> phila: similar to dcat, data cube
16:54:05 <ericstephan> q+
16:54:32 <jerdeb> phila: suggesting that such scenarios should go in the documentation of the vocabulary
16:55:08 <BernadetteLoscio> zakim, unmute BernadetteLoscio
16:55:08 <Zakim> BernadetteLoscio should no longer be muted
16:55:27 <jerdeb> phila: we can use some sample data to show the intended usage.. rather than working on some use case and then refer to it later
16:55:44 <ericstephan> ack ericstephan
16:55:46 <phila> ack ericstephan
16:55:56 <jerdeb> bernardette: it would be nice if someone can answer our questions in the use case document rather than ourselves
16:57:05 <BernadetteLoscio> zakim, unmute BernadetteLoscio
16:57:05 <Zakim> BernadetteLoscio was not muted, BernadetteLoscio
16:57:44 <jerdeb> ericstephan: are we in agreement that we go through the requirements for the next week rather than a re-write of the use case documents?
16:58:25 <jerdeb> phila: we need to make sure that what we do is grounded in reality... and that could be quite hard
16:58:50 <jerdeb> phila: we are trying to answer the question "what are people doing with my data?"
16:59:09 <MakxDekkers> +1 what phila said: grounded in reality
16:59:31 <jerdeb> phila: having a document is good, but we have to have something more concrete
16:59:41 <ericstephan> @phila good point, iterative process to produce and validate, and improve.
17:00:19 <jerdeb> phila: then we can go for input/feedback from the community
17:00:37 <jerdeb> ericstephan: feedback is an important process
17:00:51 <markharrison> zakim, unmute markharrison
17:00:51 <Zakim> markharrison should no longer be muted
17:01:32 <Zakim> -markharrison
17:01:33 <Zakim> -ericstephan
17:01:33 <Zakim> -BernadetteLoscio
17:01:35 <Zakim> -phila
17:01:36 <Zakim> -jerdeb
17:01:38 <Zakim> DATA_DWBP()12:00PM has ended
17:01:38 <Zakim> Attendees were ericstephan, +3567922aaaa, +44.796.910.aabb, markharrison, jerdeb, BernadetteLoscio, +44.122.352.aacc, phila
17:01:54 <phila> Did you see this BernadetteLoscio https://twitter.com/philarcher1/status/515767419076608000
17:01:58 <markharrison> bye
19:19:54 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dwbp