IRC log of wai-wcag on 2014-09-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:46:14 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag

14:46:14 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/09/30-wai-wcag-irc

14:46:16 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

14:46:18 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG

14:46:18 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 14 minutes

14:46:19 [trackbot]

Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

14:46:19 [trackbot]

Date: 30 September 2014

14:46:50 [Joshue]

zakim, agenda?

14:46:50 [Zakim]

I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:

14:46:52 [Zakim]

3. Follow up on Aside technique https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_the_aside_element_to_indicate_tangentially_related_content [from AWK]

14:46:52 [Zakim]

4. Techniques Work Review https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Working_Group_Techniques_Development_Assignments [from AWK]

14:47:01 [Joshue]

zakim, clear agenda

14:47:01 [Zakim]

agenda cleared

14:47:07 [Joshue]

agenda+ Open actions review [start at ACTION-213]:

14:47:07 [Joshue]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/open

14:47:23 [Joshue]

agenda+ Follow up on Aside technique:

14:47:23 [Joshue]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_the_aside_element_to_indicate_tangentially_related_content

14:47:34 [Joshue]

agenda+ Survey for September 30th, 2014:

14:47:34 [Joshue]

https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/30thSept2014/

14:47:41 [Joshue]

agenda+ Techniques Work Review:

14:47:41 [Joshue]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Working_Group_Techniques_Development_Assignments

14:47:48 [Joshue]

Chair: Joshue

14:48:40 [Joshue]

Regrets+ David MacD, Alistair G, Kenny Z, Sailesh P, Bruce B

14:48:52 [Joshue]

regrets+ David MacD, Alistair G, Kenny Z, Sailesh P, Bruce B

14:49:48 [Joshue]

zakim, agenda?

14:49:48 [Zakim]

I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:

14:49:49 [Zakim]

1. Open actions review [start at ACTION-213]: [from Joshue]

14:49:49 [Zakim]

2. Follow up on Aside technique: [from Joshue]

14:49:49 [Zakim]

3. Survey for September 30th, 2014: [from Joshue]

14:49:49 [Zakim]

4. Techniques Work Review: [from Joshue]

14:53:30 [Joshue]

regrets+ Christophe

14:54:20 [Zakim]

WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has now started

14:54:27 [Zakim]

+AWK

14:54:34 [AWK]

AWK has joined #wai-wcag

14:55:10 [AWK]

trackbot, start meeting

14:55:12 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

14:55:13 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

14:55:14 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG

14:55:14 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot, I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM already started

14:55:15 [trackbot]

Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

14:55:15 [trackbot]

Date: 30 September 2014

14:55:20 [AWK]

Zakim, agenda?

14:55:20 [Zakim]

I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:

14:55:21 [Zakim]

1. Open actions review [start at ACTION-213]: [from Joshue]

14:55:21 [Zakim]

2. Follow up on Aside technique: [from Joshue]

14:55:21 [Zakim]

3. Survey for September 30th, 2014: [from Joshue]

14:55:21 [Zakim]

4. Techniques Work Review: [from Joshue]

14:55:22 [Joshue]

zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue

14:55:22 [Zakim]

+Joshue; got it

14:55:43 [AWK]

regrets+ David, Alistair, Kenny, Bruce

14:55:54 [AWK]

regrets+ Wilco

14:56:07 [AWK]

Chair: Joshue

14:56:37 [AWK]

Zakim, regrets?

14:56:37 [Zakim]

I don't understand your question, AWK.

14:56:45 [AWK]

Trackbot, regrets?

14:56:45 [trackbot]

Sorry, AWK, I don't understand 'Trackbot, regrets?'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.

14:56:54 [Joshue]

zakim, regrets?

14:56:55 [Zakim]

I don't understand your question, Joshue.

14:57:04 [Joshue]

regrets?

14:57:16 [Joshue]

trackbot, regrets?

14:57:16 [trackbot]

Sorry, Joshue, I don't understand 'trackbot, regrets?'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.

15:00:33 [jon_avila]

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15:00:43 [adam_solomon]

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15:01:06 [adam_solomon]

Hi - i have a survey item (#2) this week - i will be on the call about a half an hour late - if possible I would appreciate delaying discussion on that item until I am on the call Thanks

15:01:17 [Zakim]

+jon_avila

15:01:18 [Zakim]

+??P14

15:01:49 [Mike_Elledge]

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15:01:57 [MichaelC]

agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2014JulSep/0266.html

15:02:15 [Joshue]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List

15:02:28 [Brent]

Brent has joined #wai-wcag

15:02:45 [Zakim]

+ +1.512.276.aaaa

15:03:05 [Zakim]

+Mike_Elledge

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15:03:16 [Zakim]

-Mike_Elledge

15:03:28 [Kathy]

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15:03:36 [MichaelC]

zakim, aaaa is Brent_Shiver

15:03:36 [Zakim]

+Brent_Shiver; got it

15:03:44 [Zakim]

+Mike_Elledge

15:03:55 [Zakim]

+Katie_Haritos-Shea

15:04:26 [Zakim]

+Kathy_Wahlbin

15:05:13 [jon_avila]

scribe: jon_avila

15:05:47 [Joshue]

zakim, next item

15:05:47 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Open actions review [start at ACTION-213]:" taken up [from Joshue]

15:05:47 [marcjohlic]

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15:06:01 [Joshue]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/open

15:06:06 [jon_avila]

topic: Action 274

15:06:07 [Joshue]

ACTION-274

15:06:07 [trackbot]

ACTION-274 -- Katie Haritos-Shea to Review description for g4 to ensure that keyboard interface support is included. -- due 2014-09-30 -- OPEN

15:06:07 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/274

15:06:23 [Zakim]

+Marc_Johlic

15:06:50 [Loretta]

Loretta has joined #WAI-WCAG

15:07:17 [jon_avila]

ryladog: wanted to put in universal language regarding keyboard acess into g4-- add words to last sentence of original description.

15:07:17 [Ryladog]

G4: Original Description: Description The objective of this technique is to provide a way to pause movement or scrolling of content. If the user needs to pause the movement, to reduce distraction or to have time to read it, they can do so, and then restart it as needed. This mechanism can be provided either through interactive controls that conform to WCAG or through keyboard shortcuts. If keyboard shortcuts are used, they are documented.

15:07:23 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

15:07:38 [Ryladog]

G4 New for Mobile: Suggested changes.......... Description The objective of this technique is to provide a way to pause movement or scrolling of content. If the user needs to pause the movement, to reduce distraction or to have time to read it, they can do so, and then restart it as needed. This mechanism can be provided either through interactive controls that conform to WCAG or through keyboard shortcuts. Standard keyboard interface accessibility is a[CUT]

15:07:44 [Loretta]

zakim, IPcaller is Loretta

15:07:44 [Zakim]

+Loretta; got it

15:07:46 [jon_avila]

awk: we can check off action as done -- we should survey what has been suggested.

15:07:49 [Joshue]

ACTION-274: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2014JulSep/0273.html Response

15:07:49 [trackbot]

Notes added to ACTION-274 Review description for g4 to ensure that keyboard interface support is included..

15:08:36 [jon_avila]

JO: We will survey Action 274. Added response to tracker.

15:09:03 [Ryladog]

Standard keyboard interface accessibility is always required (under 2.1.1), and if non-standard keyboard shortcuts are used, they are documented.

15:09:10 [jon_avila]

kw: Mobile TF has g4 approved - what ist he change?

15:09:56 [jon_avila]

ryladog: Had concern that people might forget about keyboard interface support. Wanted to find a standard way to talk about it. Didn't want to put it into example.

15:10:20 [jon_avila]

kw: prefer proposed language to go back to mobile TF so we can get wording approved across all updated techniques.

15:10:37 [AWK]

q+

15:10:50 [Joshue]

ack awk

15:10:57 [jon_avila]

jo: Katie and Kathy should discuss with mobile TF.

15:11:07 [AWK]

ack me

15:12:13 [jon_avila]

awk: text was more of a don't forget this as well text. G4 changes were approved but this would be additional text.

15:13:05 [Joshue]

q?

15:13:17 [jon_avila]

awk: wanted to prevent going back and forth.

15:13:54 [jon_avila]

kw: it's important we are consistent on this topic. We've had several conversations in the TF and we want the language incorporated in techniques.

15:14:35 [Joshue]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/213

15:14:45 [jon_avila]

TOPIC: Action 213

15:15:06 [Joshue]

ACTION-213: Josh to ping david for an update

15:15:06 [trackbot]

Notes added to ACTION-213 Work on adding his additional knowledge about uses of level to this technique..

15:15:45 [Joshue]

ACTION-206

15:15:45 [trackbot]

ACTION-206 -- Loretta Guarino Reid to Revise http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/F43:_Failure_of_Success_Criterion_1.3.1_due_to_using_structural_markup_in_a_way_that_does_not_represent_relationships_in_the_content -- due 2013-06-27 -- OPEN

15:15:45 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/206

15:15:48 [jon_avila]

jo: will ping David on 213.

15:16:07 [jon_avila]

TOPIC: Action-206

15:16:48 [jon_avila]

lgr: Did not have a chance to look at it since we last discussed.

15:17:26 [Joshue]

ACTION-206: Loretta to revisit it asap.

15:17:26 [trackbot]

Notes added to ACTION-206 Revise http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/F43:_Failure_of_Success_Criterion_1.3.1_due_to_using_structural_markup_in_a_way_that_does_not_represent_relationships_in_the_content.

15:17:31 [jon_avila]

jo: Update action to indicate LGR will revisit this.

15:17:40 [jon_avila]

TOPIC: Action-205

15:18:43 [jon_avila]

awk: added a note in June 2014. It was originally created in June 2013. Some missing context in action -- would need to back and figure out context.

15:19:29 [Joshue]

ACTION-205: AWK to follow up

15:19:29 [jon_avila]

awk: May need possible technique for summary. Will make sure it gets on list of needed techniques and then action item can be closed.

15:19:29 [trackbot]

Notes added to ACTION-205 Review WIKI techniques list and that Captions and summary are reflected on the list.

15:19:53 [jon_avila]

TOPIC: Action 204

15:19:58 [Joshue]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/204

15:20:18 [Joshue]

ACTION-204: Josh to ping David about this

15:20:18 [trackbot]

Notes added to ACTION-204 Look at fixing changing LC-2632: SCR37: Creating Custom Dialogs in a Device Independent Way.

15:20:27 [jon_avila]

jo: to ping David MacDonald

15:20:59 [Joshue]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/203

15:21:00 [jon_avila]

TOPIC: Action-203

15:21:07 [Joshue]

Revisit removing the tabindex check from test procedure step 3 in F59

15:21:25 [Joshue]

ACTION-203: josh to ping adam

15:21:25 [trackbot]

Notes added to ACTION-203 Revisit removing the tabindex check from test procedure step 3 in F59.

15:21:29 [jon_avila]

awk: Adam is on IRC but was going to join call late.

15:21:37 [jon_avila]

jo: Will remind Adam to review this action item.

15:22:04 [Joshue]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/198

15:22:08 [jon_avila]

TOPIC: Action-198

15:22:15 [Joshue]

Write paragraph to explain why references to conformance criteria are not needed in WCAG2ICT

15:22:26 [Joshue]

ACTION-198: Josh to ping peter

15:22:26 [trackbot]

Notes added to ACTION-198 Write paragraph to explain why references to conformance criteria are not needed in WCAG2ICT.

15:23:31 [jon_avila]

awk: Peter Korn is not currently a participant.

15:23:49 [jon_avila]

mc: We can reassign action or close it. Action item is related to WCAG-ICT which is a published note.

15:24:34 [Ryladog]

q+

15:24:42 [jon_avila]

awk: May not be relevant anymore.

15:25:09 [jon_avila]

mc: No open work on WCAG to ICT

15:25:57 [jon_avila]

Ryladog: May be relevant to Bruce Bailey

15:26:13 [MichaelC]

close action-217

15:26:13 [trackbot]

Closed action-217.

15:26:13 [jon_avila]

jo: Call to close action 198

15:26:24 [jon_avila]

jo: any objection? None heard.

15:26:33 [Joshue]

Close, action-198

15:26:36 [Joshue]

close, action-198

15:27:05 [Joshue]

ACTION-192

15:27:05 [trackbot]

ACTION-192 -- Gregg Vanderheiden to Noodle with Loretta and Andrew a navigation mechanism related to comment LC-2669 -- due 2013-02-07 -- OPEN

15:27:05 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/192

15:27:07 [jon_avila]

TOPIC: Action-192

15:27:07 [AWK]

Close ACTION-198

15:27:07 [trackbot]

Closed ACTION-198.

15:28:17 [jamesn]

jamesn has joined #wai-wcag

15:29:08 [Joshue]

ACTION-192: Close

15:29:08 [trackbot]

Sorry, but I think you meant to close ACTION-192.

15:29:19 [Joshue]

close ACTION-192

15:29:19 [trackbot]

Closed ACTION-192.

15:29:19 [jon_avila]

jo: Gregg Vanderheiden and LGR were to brainstorm on this action

15:29:38 [jon_avila]

lgr: Action 192 can be closed.

15:29:40 [Joshue]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/190

15:29:50 [jon_avila]

TOPIC: Action 190

15:29:55 [Joshue]

ACTION-190: Josh to ping james

15:29:55 [trackbot]

Notes added to ACTION-190 Run tests on alt=¨ ¨ to input whether we should remove mention of it from F30.

15:30:08 [jon_avila]

jo: Will ping James

15:30:12 [Joshue]

zakim, agenda?

15:30:12 [Zakim]

I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:

15:30:13 [Zakim]

1. Open actions review [start at ACTION-213]: [from Joshue]

15:30:13 [Zakim]

3. Survey for September 30th, 2014: [from Joshue]

15:30:13 [Zakim]

4. Techniques Work Review: [from Joshue]

15:30:21 [Joshue]

zakim, next item

15:30:21 [Zakim]

I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Joshue

15:30:25 [Joshue]

q?

15:30:39 [Joshue]

ack ryla

15:30:39 [AWK]

ack ry

15:30:43 [Joshue]

zakim, next item

15:30:43 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "Survey for September 30th, 2014:" taken up [from Joshue]

15:30:49 [Zakim]

+James_Nurthen

15:31:22 [Joshue]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/190

15:32:11 [Joshue]

ACTION-190: I did run tests but didn't formally do the results

15:32:11 [trackbot]

Notes added to ACTION-190 Run tests on alt=¨ ¨ to input whether we should remove mention of it from F30.

15:32:21 [jon_avila]

jn: No update yet. Will be quick. Did run tests but will provide formal results.

15:32:35 [Joshue]

https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/30thSept2014/

15:32:45 [Joshue]

https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/30thSept2014/results

15:33:02 [jon_avila]

TOPIC: Carousel tutorial review

15:34:00 [jon_avila]

jo: will aggregate comments in document and then send to Shadi who will annonymize them and put in tracker

15:34:35 [MichaelC]

ack me

15:35:15 [jon_avila]

jo: don't need to read all of the comments.

15:35:45 [AWK]

q+

15:35:46 [jon_avila]

mc: Some places a code example is provided and other places there is a visual example. It would be good to have both.

15:35:51 [Joshue]

ack awk

15:36:25 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

15:36:34 [adam_solomon]

zakim, [IPcaller] is adam_solomon

15:36:34 [Zakim]

+adam_solomon; got it

15:36:54 [jon_avila]

awk: Question is this a draft but ready for review or is this not ready for review yet. The next question is related to Mike Elledge question about buttons having to have same behaviour as a button.

15:38:07 [jon_avila]

ME: links cannot be activated with space but can be activated with enter but if you call it a button then it isn't acting according to those behaviours.

15:38:46 [Joshue]

zakim, q?

15:38:46 [Zakim]

I see no one on the speaker queue

15:39:00 [AWK]

https://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/carousels/

15:39:01 [jon_avila]

jn: Don't see an example of buttons in the preview.

15:39:47 [Mike_Elledge]

q+

15:40:12 [Joshue]

ack mike

15:40:17 [jon_avila]

awk: Need to clarify status of document to determine if all parts are ready ready for our review.

15:40:31 [Joshue]

ACTION: Josh to ping Shadi about the editorial status etc of the Carousel tutorial

15:40:31 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-277 - Ping shadi about the editorial status etc of the carousel tutorial [on Joshue O Connor - due 2014-10-07].

15:41:07 [jon_avila]

ME: In response to James' question -- question on buttons more hypothetical question.

15:41:34 [Joshue]

ACTION: Josh to send collated feedback to Shadi on carousels

15:41:34 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-278 - Send collated feedback to shadi on carousels [on Joshue O Connor - due 2014-10-07].

15:42:36 [jon_avila]

jo: Any other comments about carousel tutorial?

15:42:45 [Joshue]

TOPIC: [LC-2957] Remove layout table section from H39 and H73

15:43:12 [Joshue]

https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/30thSept2014/results

15:43:51 [jon_avila]

TOPIC: LC-2957

15:44:23 [Joshue]

q?

15:44:50 [jon_avila]

RESOLUTION: accepted as proposed

15:44:57 [Joshue]

[LC-2959] Remove "WAI-ARIA is a Working Draft" from ARIA2

15:45:04 [Joshue]

http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140306/2959

15:45:19 [jon_avila]

TOPIC: LC-2959

15:46:15 [jon_avila]

awk: Ask whether ARIA technique should be sufficient rather than adivsory.

15:46:37 [AWK]

http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/ARIA2.html

15:46:52 [Joshue]

http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/aria#ARIA1

15:47:15 [AWK]

http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/ARIA1.html

15:47:20 [jon_avila]

jn: orgiinally we were discussing ARIA 1, 2, and 3 for sufficient techniques. Question is are ARIA 1 and 2 sufficient?

15:47:42 [jon_avila]

q+

15:48:03 [jon_avila]

awk: aria-required and aria-dscribedby are a matter of discussion.

15:48:13 [AWK]

ack jon

15:48:29 [Joshue]

JA: PF discussed this

15:48:40 [AWK]

JA: some discussion with PF about ARIA read-only and required

15:48:45 [Joshue]

JA: aria-readonly, aria-disabled and required

15:49:08 [AWK]

JA: If the properties weren't set in HTML5 the properties could be overwritten

15:49:30 [Joshue]

JA: ARIA one are explicitly true and false but HTML5 booleans operate by their presense or lack of

15:49:31 [AWK]

JA: Possible conflict in that the ARIA might not override the default browser behavior

15:49:46 [AWK]

JN: I think that PF is still working on this

15:52:21 [jon_avila]

awk: Sounds like what we could do is accept removal draft status of ARIA but then create an action to review whether these techniques are advisory or sufficient.

15:53:20 [Mike_Elledge]

+1

15:53:32 [jon_avila]

jo: any objections to accept proposed response.

15:53:47 [jon_avila]

RESOLUTION: Accepted as Proposed

15:54:17 [AWK]

ACTION: Josh to review whether ARIA1 and ARIA2 should be made sufficient (currently advisory) DUE 2013/11/01

15:54:17 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-279 - Review whether aria1 and aria2 should be made sufficient (currently advisory) due 2013/11/01 [on Joshue O Connor - due 2014-10-07].

15:54:26 [MichaelC]

ack me

15:54:26 [MichaelC]

ack me

15:54:27 [MichaelC]

ack me

15:55:06 [Joshue]

TOPIC: [LC-2956] Remove F48

15:55:11 [jon_avila]

TOPIC: LC-2956

15:55:13 [Joshue]

http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140306/2956

15:56:11 [Loretta]

q+

15:56:40 [jon_avila]

ME: Seem similar not sure why they are separate tests.

15:56:53 [Joshue]

ack lor

15:57:52 [jon_avila]

lgr: General failure was written for plain text. We see places were space is used to apply formatting because there is no other. F48 was aimed HTML. It conceivable they could be combined but clarity would be something to look at.

15:58:29 [jon_avila]

awk: F48 appears in HTML techniques list which helps people find it

15:59:23 [Joshue]

q?

16:00:02 [jon_avila]

ME: neither technique is acceptable for structuring tables.

16:00:44 [jon_avila]

q+

16:01:24 [AWK]

ack jon

16:01:29 [Joshue]

ack jon

16:01:40 [Joshue]

JA: I don't think they should be combined

16:02:30 [jon_avila]

lgr: could be combined but have concerned over merging.

16:02:59 [jon_avila]

ME: I'm ok with keeping them separate

16:03:51 [jon_avila]

jo: any objection to current response? Response is to keep both failures.

16:04:07 [Joshue]

suggested text "so we are not removing F48"

16:04:23 [MichaelC]

ack me

16:04:44 [jon_avila]

awk: added a line to be clear that we decline to remove the failure.

16:05:21 [jon_avila]

RESOLUTION: Accepted as amended

16:05:29 [Joshue]

TOPIC: [LC-2962] Updated response to 'Placeholder text responsibility'

16:06:45 [jon_avila]

awk: though we are saying that you need to make sure contrast is sufficient. We might want to mention there is vendor specific CSS prefixes that people should be aware of.

16:07:06 [jon_avila]

awk: Perhaps put a technique in queue to create a technique on how to do it.

16:08:02 [jon_avila]

jo: Are is there any objection to 2962?

16:08:24 [jon_avila]

RESOLUTION: Accept LC-2962 as proposed

16:08:32 [AWK]

ACTION: AWK to add idea for placeholder text technique to techniques development list per response at https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/30thSept2014/results#xnew2

16:08:33 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-280 - Add idea for placeholder text technique to techniques development list per response at https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/30thsept2014/results#xnew2 [on Andrew Kirkpatrick - due 2014-10-07].

16:08:56 [Joshue]

TOPIC: [LC-2961] Remove example 1 from ARIA7

16:08:58 [Joshue]

q?

16:09:06 [Joshue]

https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140306/2961

16:09:20 [Joshue]

http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/ARIA7.html

16:10:16 [jon_avila]

jo: idea is that we can replace link text with ARIA labelledby text.

16:11:11 [jon_avila]

jo: Mike comment about removing reference to example 1 in description and propose alternative as best practice.

16:11:20 [AWK]

q+

16:11:27 [Joshue]

ack awk

16:11:42 [jon_avila]

q+

16:12:00 [jon_avila]

awk: Example 2 reads heading line plus link text.

16:13:02 [jon_avila]

jo: do other ATs allow for either link text or aria?

16:13:40 [jon_avila]

q+

16:13:52 [Joshue]

q?

16:13:55 [Joshue]

ack jon

16:14:03 [Joshue]

JS: We need to consider Screen reader users

16:15:09 [Joshue]

JA: This could be used for pagination for tables, search results, file formats

16:15:23 [Joshue]

JA: We need to think to different use cases

16:15:55 [Joshue]

JA: We could just change example 1. Or come up with a better situation where its more sense to change the link text

16:17:09 [Mike_Elledge]

q+

16:17:12 [jon_avila]

jo: Does anyone object to not removing it?

16:17:50 [jon_avila]

awk: would be good to say this could be an issue, but we have surveyed the results and currently and it is currently supported.

16:18:07 [jon_avila]

jo: Could Kathy W. chat with Kim Patch?

16:18:14 [jon_avila]

kw: Will chat with Kim Patch

16:18:52 [Joshue]

ack mike

16:19:24 [jon_avila]

ME: hope that we find that this is not a problem. Could way to deal with read more.

16:19:45 [jon_avila]

RESOLUTION: Leave open

16:20:15 [jon_avila]

TOPIC: LC-2954

16:20:26 [Joshue]

Clarify F68 is applicable for controls that use visible labels

16:21:11 [AWK]

I agree with that

16:21:22 [jon_avila]

adam: Wanted to ask if people agree about SC 1.3.1 only applies when visual labels are present

16:22:16 [jon_avila]

adam: Additional comments that title and aria-label should be taken out.

16:22:35 [AWK]

if a control has no visible label it doesn't fail 1.3.1 for not associating the label it doesn't have with the control. It could fail 4.1.2

16:23:43 [jon_avila]

awk: If a control doesn't have a visible label then it doesn't fail 1.3.1

16:23:59 [jamesn]

q+

16:24:00 [Joshue]

http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/F68.html

16:24:07 [jon_avila]

awk: f68 is about failing both 1.3.1 and 4.1.2 but talks specifically about controls that use visible labels.

16:24:18 [jon_avila]

awk: test includes a check for a text label.

16:24:22 [Ryladog]

q+

16:25:02 [jon_avila]

awk: It would be ok if a field with visual label has title.

16:25:08 [Joshue]

ack james

16:25:12 [AWK]

ack j

16:25:41 [Joshue]

JOC: I come accross the pattern AWK just described a lot repitition of title and Search

16:25:43 [jon_avila]

jn: other uses cases where you have a visual label and 3 fields such as a phone number. Each much have a different accessible name. Title is a good way of doing that.

16:26:20 [AWK]

q+

16:26:28 [AWK]

ack ry

16:26:30 [Joshue]

ack ryla

16:27:12 [jon_avila]

Ryladog: We should identify that it's a failure of programmatic connect but its valuable to have these connected.

16:27:27 [jon_avila]

adam: Why does this mention visual labels at all? To include 1.3.1.

16:27:37 [AWK]

ack me

16:27:39 [Joshue]

ack awk

16:27:40 [jon_avila]

adam: You could use title or aria-label to pass 1.3.1

16:27:58 [jon_avila]

q?

16:28:00 [jon_avila]

q+

16:28:28 [jon_avila]

awk: Could say if visual label doesn't fully identify control. Title should match visible text label.

16:28:42 [Ryladog]

+1 to awk

16:29:02 [Mike_Elledge]

q+

16:29:40 [Joshue]

ack jon

16:30:12 [Joshue]

JA: What about a Likert scale with visual labels, and you can't use them and where ARIA may not be supported.

16:30:53 [jon_avila]

ME: Dont' want to lose ability to use title as solution for fields like phone numbers.

16:31:12 [jon_avila]

jn: What is the reason why we want to remove this connect? What are we trying to solve?

16:31:48 [Zakim]

-Kathy_Wahlbin

16:31:52 [Zakim]

-AWK

16:32:40 [Zakim]

-James_Nurthen

16:32:41 [jon_avila]

RESOLUTION: LC-2954 Leave Open

16:32:48 [Zakim]

-Katie_Haritos-Shea

16:32:52 [jon_avila]

zakim, list attendees

16:32:52 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been AWK, Joshue, jon_avila, Michael_Cooper, +1.512.276.aaaa, Mike_Elledge, Brent_Shiver, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Kathy_Wahlbin, Marc_Johlic,

16:32:55 [Zakim]

... Loretta, James_Nurthen, adam_solomon

16:32:58 [Joshue]

rrsagent, list attendees

16:32:58 [RRSAgent]

I'm logging. I don't understand 'list attendees', Joshue. Try /msg RRSAgent help

16:33:02 [Mike_Elledge]

Thx!

16:33:05 [Joshue]

zakim, list attendees

16:33:05 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been AWK, Joshue, jon_avila, Michael_Cooper, +1.512.276.aaaa, Mike_Elledge, Brent_Shiver, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Kathy_Wahlbin, Marc_Johlic,

16:33:09 [Zakim]

... Loretta, James_Nurthen, adam_solomon

16:33:09 [jon_avila]

rrsagent, make logs public

16:33:10 [Zakim]

-Michael_Cooper

16:33:11 [Zakim]

-Mike_Elledge

16:33:13 [Zakim]

-adam_solomon

16:33:13 [Zakim]

-Brent_Shiver

16:33:15 [Zakim]

-Loretta

16:33:15 [Zakim]

-Marc_Johlic

16:33:17 [Zakim]

-Joshue

16:33:22 [jon_avila]

rrsagent, make minutes

16:33:22 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/30-wai-wcag-minutes.html jon_avila

16:36:07 [Zakim]

-jon_avila

16:36:08 [Zakim]

WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has ended

16:36:08 [Zakim]

Attendees were AWK, Joshue, jon_avila, Michael_Cooper, +1.512.276.aaaa, Mike_Elledge, Brent_Shiver, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Kathy_Wahlbin, Marc_Johlic, Loretta, James_Nurthen,

16:36:08 [Zakim]

... adam_solomon

17:02:01 [jamesn]

jamesn has joined #wai-wcag

17:02:33 [jamesn_]

jamesn_ has joined #wai-wcag