14:11:56 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #w3process
14:11:56 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/09/30-w3process-irc
14:12:12 <chaals> close action-33
14:12:12 <trackbot> Closed action-33.
14:12:14 <timeless> Zakim, start meeting
14:12:14 <Zakim> I don't understand 'start meeting', timeless
14:12:20 <timeless> trackbot, start meeting
14:12:22 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:12:24 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
14:12:24 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:12:25 <trackbot> Meeting: Revising W3C Process Community Group Teleconference
14:12:25 <trackbot> Date: 30 September 2014
14:12:52 <timeless> action-33
14:12:52 <trackbot> action-33 -- Charles McCathie Nevile to Propose text to update 6.2.6 to deal with issue 121 -- due 2014-09-02 -- CLOSED
14:12:52 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/actions/33
14:13:10 <timeless> Zakim, who is on the call?
14:13:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see Jay, SteveZ, timeless (muted), Jeff, glazou, chaals
14:13:10 <jeff_> [sounds GTM]
14:13:17 <timeless> scribe: timeless
14:13:52 <chaals> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3process/2014Sep/0120.html thread for ISSUE-115
14:14:52 <Zakim> -SteveZ
14:15:17 <SteveZ> and I sent: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3process/2014Sep/0170.html
14:15:29 <chaals> Scribe: chaals
14:15:39 <chaals> Topic: ISSUE 115
14:15:45 <SteveZ> phone dropped
14:16:12 <timeless> s/scribe: timeless//
14:16:13 <Zakim> +SteveZ
14:16:35 <chaals> CMN: The apparent resolution was to change "W3C should inform the AC about the status of Activities" to "…of activities (including Working and Interest Groups)"
14:17:12 <chaals> SteveZ: Dave Singer suggested what chaals just repeated
14:17:21 <chaals> s/including/including but not limited to/
14:17:41 <SteveZ> Resolved: "activity (including but not limited to the work of groups)"
14:18:04 <chaals> RESOLUTION: close ISSUE-115 by changing "Activity" to "activity (including but not limited to the work of groups)" in 2.1.3.2
14:18:08 <chaals> Topic: ISSUE-121
14:18:44 <jeff_> issue-121?
14:18:44 <trackbot> issue-121 -- Intellectual property information.in charters -- pending review
14:18:44 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/121
14:19:03 <chaals> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3process/2014Sep/0121.html proposal for the issue
14:19:55 <jeff_> q+
14:20:36 <chaals> CMN: Proposal is to move the bullet requiring W3C inform the AC about the IPR around an area of work, e.g. if they have reason to believe it will be hard to get RF commitments
14:20:47 <jeff_> aack je
14:20:50 <jeff_> ack je
14:20:53 <chaals> JJ: Wasn't there a concern expressed that this makes the Team do more work.
14:20:58 <timeless> s/aack je//
14:21:22 <chaals> CMN: THe concern was whether this would oblige the Team to share information given in confidence, and my understanding is the answer is *NO*.
14:22:21 <chaals> SZ: MikeC did express the concern Jeff said. You pointed out that there is a requirement to do this already.
14:23:33 <jeff_> q+
14:24:07 <chaals> SZ: [scribe missed]
14:25:01 <chaals> JJ: Idea is to make changes that get consensus. Rather than waiting for an objection I would prefer the chair to take an action to determine if there is likely to be an outstanding objection.
14:25:21 <chaals> SZ: Propose to send something to AC forum saying we resolved this as proposed - does anyone have a problem
14:25:22 <chaals> q+
14:25:43 <jeff_> q-
14:25:43 <chaals> s/[scribe missed]/propose to resolve as chaals proposes
14:25:49 <jeff_> ack chaa
14:26:20 <Zakim> +Mike_Champion
14:27:05 <chaals> CMN: We have now dealt with all of Activiites. I will propose that we send a new draft to the AC as an interim draft, for their review of removing Activities.
14:27:24 <jeff_> q+
14:27:32 <chaals> RESOLUTION: close ISSUE-121 by moving the bullet as proposed by chaals
14:27:41 <chaals> Topic: draft for AC review?
14:27:56 <chaals> Steve: Plan is to produce a draft for AC review.
14:28:05 <jeff_> ack je
14:28:05 <chaals> MikeC: sounds good
14:28:17 <chaals> JJ: Suggest you copy w3process
14:28:21 <chaals> SZ: and chairs
14:28:36 <chaals> s/w3process/w3process with your review draft
14:28:50 <chaals> Topic: ISSUE-124 blacklist WHATWG?
14:28:59 <chaals> SZ: This is irrelevant to process
14:29:05 <chaals> MC: And a bad idea?
14:29:06 <Jay> suddenly the phone system down, I will reconnect by other method.
14:29:08 <chaals> q+
14:29:23 <chaals> MC: Haven't heard any support for this proposal
14:29:42 <chaals> SZ: Don't want to reopen the discussion
14:30:05 <chaals> RESOLUTION: closed as not applicable to the Process
14:30:07 <chaals> ack me
14:30:42 <chaals> CMN: Already asked for support. Shouldbe closed as "nobody thinks it is a good idea"
14:30:57 <chaals> s/the Process/the Process, and nobody thinks it is a good idea/
14:31:29 <chaals> Topic: ISSUE-34 - Good Standing
14:31:37 <chaals> SZ: SUggestion is that we remove good standing.
14:32:13 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:32:23 <chaals> CMN: You were the last person saying "I am not suggesting we remove it", so if you have shifted position I think we have a consensus.
14:32:57 <SteveZ> RESOLUTION: Remove Good Standing from the Process
14:33:01 <chaals> SZ: And we have an exchange showing that we have flexibility for a charter to use provisions like this if people decide it is necessary
14:33:09 <chaals> zakim, [ip is Jay
14:33:09 <Zakim> +Jay; got it
14:33:14 <chaals> Topic: ISSUE-64
14:33:25 <chaals> SZ: This should be closed as "completed"
14:33:28 <chaals> issue-64?
14:33:28 <trackbot> issue-64 -- Chapter 7: add a link to an errata page -- pending review
14:33:28 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/64
14:33:37 <SteveZ> Topic: Issue-64
14:34:04 <chaals> CMN: This is done. There are links to the tracker, and editor's drafts.
14:34:22 <chaals> RESOLUTION: close issue-64
14:34:26 <chaals> close issue-64
14:34:26 <trackbot> Closed issue-64.
14:36:00 <chaals> Topic: ISSUE-97
14:36:04 <chaals> issue-97
14:36:04 <trackbot> issue-97 -- Is using the term "Board" in "Advisory Board" really accurate and representative? -- raised
14:36:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/97
14:36:09 <chaals> q+
14:36:14 <glazou> q+
14:36:34 <chaals> SZ: Believe chaals suggested this is a rathole, and there is no benefit from "fixing" it
14:36:36 <chaals> q- later
14:36:41 <chaals> ack gl
14:36:44 <jeff_> q+
14:37:44 <chaals> DG: I disagree that it is not worth the cost. People want to be on the Board because they believe it is a board with some power - and they use being there for their own career advancement.
14:37:59 <chaals> … unfortunate that it is named board, although it is difficult to change.
14:38:06 <chaals> MC: Do you have an alternate suggestion?
14:38:45 <chaals> DG: The AB should be called the Advisory Committee, the AC should be called the membership. It is difficult to change now unfortunately. I dream it could be done in the future.
14:38:50 <chaals> q?
14:39:11 <chaals> … having the word "Board" is misleading, not doing things right.
14:39:50 <Jay> q+
14:40:11 <chaals> CMN: I agree with Daniel that there are some unfortunate consequences of having used the term Board, although I don't think the overall cost is actually that high. ANd I think changing the names is not a high-priority activity but would be high cost.
14:40:17 <chaals> ack je
14:40:21 <chaals> ack cha
14:40:30 <glazou> q+
14:40:31 <SteveZ_> SteveZ_ has joined #w3process
14:41:05 <chaals> JJ: For Process2015 the objective is to make the changes that don't imply a lot of debate, so we can get there quickly. I propose we postpone this issue, to at least process2016
14:41:17 <chaals> ack jay
14:42:20 <chaals> Jay: Understand the feeling of Daniel. But agree that it is not something we should change now.
14:42:26 <chaals> zakim, who is making noise?
14:42:29 <Zakim> -Jay
14:42:37 <Zakim> chaals, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: glazou (85%), SteveZ (58%), Jay.a (62%)
14:42:43 <chaals> ack gl
14:43:09 <chaals> DG: Good standing took 15 years to remove. We are labeled as slow and incapable of doing things fast. This is a minor issue, changing a word.
14:43:49 <chaals> … agree it is not easy to do because there is a cost in terms of implementation, but that there could be resistance from the people. I don't objection to any possible decision, but don't understand why this is not a high priority.
14:43:51 <chaals> q+
14:44:20 <chaals> … perception is everything. If people perceive that teh Advisory Board is a board we have a perception problem. But think it is a priority and low cost.
14:44:35 <jeff_> ack cha
14:45:44 <chaals> CMN: The cost is in bikeshedding, and in people remembering what the new things are called...
14:45:51 <chaals> DG: *cough*
14:46:11 <chaals> CMN: I suggest we keep it open, and can discuss on email, but don't think we should try to solve it in a meeting.
14:46:16 <SteveZ_> CMN this will lead to a bikeshedding discussion which will take a long time and the cost in terms of changes to the collection of W3C document may be large
14:46:30 <chaals> RESOLUTION: ISSUE-97 remains open, expected to be resolved for Process2016
14:46:54 <SteveZ_> RESOLUTION: Keep Issue-97 Open but discuss it in the Process2016 discusion
14:47:27 <chaals> s/to the collection of W3C document/in people's heads trying to track the changes/
14:47:31 <chaals> Topic: Now?
14:47:44 <chaals> SZ: When do you expect a draft for AC review?
14:47:48 <chaals> CMN: today
14:49:06 <chaals> CMN: Should I include the removal of Good Standing in the draft for review?
14:50:40 <Zakim> -SteveZ
14:50:51 <chaals> CMN: Don't think we should be concerned at exactly matching the process used for Rec-Track
14:51:17 <Zakim> +SteveZ
14:51:42 <chaals> CMN: Are there any objections to me publishing the draft for wider review?
14:51:59 <chaals> RESOLUTION: Chaals to publish the draft for wider review.
14:52:16 <chaals> SZ: Does anyone object to removing good standing for that draft.
14:52:43 <chaals> DG: support doing so.
14:52:56 <SteveZ_> RESOLUTION: Publish a Draft of Process2015 that has both Activities and Good Standing reomoved.
14:53:42 <chaals> q+
14:54:16 <jeff_> q+
14:54:39 <SteveZ_> ack ch
14:54:47 <SteveZ_> ack j
14:54:54 <chaals> CMN: Would like to open the issue of removing coordination groups.
14:55:13 <chaals> JJ: WOuld like to circulate this idea around the team, before we try to reach resolution.
14:55:27 <chaals> SZ: Chaals can you send a message propsing to open that issue?
14:55:40 <glazou> +1 on chaals’ suggestion
14:56:02 <SteveZ_> RSSAgent, make minutes
14:56:11 <timeless> s/WOuld/Would/
14:56:22 <SteveZ_> RRSAGENT, make minutes
14:56:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/30-w3process-minutes.html SteveZ_
14:56:22 <timeless> s/propsing/proposing/
14:56:34 <timeless> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:56:42 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:56:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/30-w3process-minutes.html timeless
14:56:43 <chaals> Action: chaals to open issue on removing coordination groups
14:56:43 <trackbot> Created ACTION-34 - Open issue on removing coordination groups [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2014-10-07].
14:56:48 <timeless> chair: SteveZ
14:57:07 <Zakim> -Mike_Champion
14:57:09 <timeless> s/trackbot, start meeting//
14:57:13 <Zakim> -glazou
14:57:18 <Zakim> -chaals
14:57:19 <Zakim> -Jeff
14:57:21 <Jay> TQ
14:57:21 <chaals> [Adjourned]
14:57:23 <Zakim> -SteveZ
14:57:35 <Zakim> -Jay.a
14:58:08 <Zakim> -timeless
14:58:09 <Zakim> AB_(PROCESS)10:00AM has ended
14:58:11 <Zakim> Attendees were glazou, Jay, SteveZ, timeless, Jeff, +33.1.34.51.aaaa, [IPcaller], chaals, Mike_Champion
14:58:19 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:58:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/30-w3process-minutes.html timeless
14:58:52 <timeless> s/+33.1.34.51.aaaa, [IPcaller], //
14:58:54 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:58:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/30-w3process-minutes.html timeless
15:02:00 <timeless> trackbot, end meeting
15:02:00 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:02:00 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
15:02:08 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:02:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/30-w3process-minutes.html trackbot
15:02:09 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:02:09 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/09/30-w3process-actions.rdf :
15:02:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: chaals to open issue on removing coordination groups [1]
15:02:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/09/30-w3process-irc#T14-56-43