14:58:39 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18nits
14:58:39 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/09/29-i18nits-irc
14:58:55 <fsasaki> meeting: ITS IG
14:58:56 <fsasaki> chair: felix
14:59:02 <fsasaki> scribe: fsasaki
14:59:11 <fsasaki> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Sep/0007.html
14:59:22 <fsasaki> present+ felix
14:59:30 <fsasaki> topic: roll call
14:59:34 <fsasaki> checking attendees ...
14:59:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/29-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
15:02:00 <yves_> yves_ has joined #i18nits
15:02:24 <joerg> joerg has joined #i18nits
15:02:56 <dF> dF has joined #i18nits
15:03:01 <yves_> present+ Yves
15:03:09 <dF> present+ dF
15:03:13 <joerg> present+ joerg
15:03:19 <dF> joining audio in a minute..
15:04:38 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Sep/0007.html
15:05:06 <fsasaki> topic: action items
15:05:18 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/its/ig/track/actions/open
15:06:18 <fsasaki> action-40?
15:06:18 <trackbot> action-40 -- Felix Sasaki to Assure that xliff2 mapping is finished by end of june -- due 2014-05-30 -- OPEN
15:06:18 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/its/ig/track/actions/40
15:06:21 <fsasaki> close action-40
15:06:22 <trackbot> Closed action-40.
15:07:06 <fsasaki> topic: XLIFF 2.0 mapping
15:07:12 <fsasaki> https://www.w3.org/International/its/wiki/XLIFF_2.0_Mapping
15:07:26 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Aug/0007.html
15:07:39 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/its/wiki/XLIFF_2.0_Mapping#Data_Categories_Not_Mapped_Yet
15:07:54 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Aug/0000.html
15:07:55 <dF> action 37 is done
15:07:56 <trackbot> Error finding '37'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/International/its/ig/track/users>.
15:08:07 <fsasaki> close action-37
15:08:07 <trackbot> Closed action-37.
15:08:33 <fsasaki> david: renat said he will check with serge, did not come back to us yet
15:08:50 <fsasaki> felix: let's see what comes back from renat / serge
15:09:10 <fsasaki> s/felix/david/
15:09:28 <fsasaki> yves: nothing to add on the mapping at the moment
15:09:46 <fsasaki> .. did not have time to follow up, will try to work on that in the coming months
15:09:57 <fsasaki> .. not sure if we will have time to implement everything before the end of the year
15:10:13 <fsasaki> .. phil and others are working on using it and implementing that in ocelot
15:10:20 <fsasaki> .. using e.g. lqi and provenance
15:10:42 <fsasaki> .. they will be working on it also on the end of the year rather than now
15:11:18 <fsasaki> felix: is that an issue process wise in OASIS? the OASIS xliff 2.1 timing and the mapping progress?
15:11:29 <fsasaki> david: xliff tc decided that we want to have yearly releases
15:11:44 <fsasaki> .. two related things: 1) transfering the mapping into the OASIS specification format
15:11:49 <fsasaki> .. I am starting that work this week
15:11:53 <fsasaki> .. I am a bit worried
15:12:07 <fsasaki> .. if work continues in the wiki we may end up with scattered information
15:12:29 <fsasaki> .. like to have a simple rule: don't touch ... in the wiki so that I can transfer that to the OASIS template
15:12:46 <fsasaki> .. the OASIS draft will be public, only OASIS TC members will be able to edit
15:12:50 <fsasaki> .. must happen sooner or later
15:12:54 <fsasaki> .. we are kind of late
15:13:03 <fsasaki> .. implementations by the end of the year is fine
15:13:18 <fsasaki> .. question is: will we have approved spec in the committee specification phase
15:13:53 <fsasaki> .. I would take all categogries marked for review and leave others for now until next call
15:14:42 <fsasaki> felix: next call timing?
15:14:46 <fsasaki> david: before loc world
15:15:17 <yves_> Oct-20 would work for me.
15:15:20 <fsasaki> action: felix to announce next call 20 october, to prepare for loc world
15:15:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-51 - Announce next call 20 october, to prepare for loc world [on Felix Sasaki - due 2014-10-06].
15:15:58 <fsasaki> david: felix had good input, also summarizing issues - some are not even issues, some categories are not metadata, this is not really relevant
15:16:14 <fsasaki> .. we should have a feeling how it goes in three weeks
15:16:27 <fsasaki> jörg: maybe inbetween david can give feedback on the work in progress
15:16:45 <serge> serge has joined #i18nits
15:16:54 <fsasaki> david: sure, I will send a link to the xliff 2.1 draft
15:16:59 <fsasaki> present+ serge
15:17:50 <fsasaki> serge: we (logrus) want to come back on XLIFF 2.0 mapping issue, for sure
15:18:05 <fsasaki> .. I understand that xliff 2.1 is going to incooperate ITS 2.0
15:18:14 <fsasaki> .. so we would like to get back to everything we discovered
15:18:55 <fsasaki> felix: would be great to get some feedback in the next three weeks
15:19:23 <fsasaki> serge: ok, I'll look into that
15:19:33 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Aug/0000.html
15:20:26 <fsasaki> topic: decide about XLIFF testing design
15:20:40 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Sep/0008.html
15:22:05 <fsasaki> david: not sure how the ITS2 test site worked - in OASIS we don't have application hosting, just simple SVN
15:22:08 <fsasaki> .. we have wiki and SVN
15:22:11 <fsasaki> .. that's it
15:22:41 <fsasaki> .. does not seem to me that we would be able to replicate W3C testing structure
15:22:54 <fsasaki> .. we will have reference files that we had for XLIFF 2.0
15:23:01 <fsasaki> .. XLIFF files with ITS extensions or mappings
15:23:14 <fsasaki> .. how they are supposed to look before and after
15:23:27 <fsasaki> .. test automation is not a requirement for OASIS
15:23:37 <fsasaki> .. in W3C you need to present test suite results to progress
15:23:46 <fsasaki> .. in OASIS you need to present statement of use
15:24:12 <fsasaki> .. advanced validation was also approved for XLIFF 2.1
15:24:27 <fsasaki> .. we will be able to test a lot using schematron rules, without having a specific test suite
15:25:15 <fsasaki> serge: very soon, 9th october, I will have a call with world server interest group - consists of clients, interested in new technologies
15:25:53 <fsasaki> s/very soon, 9th october, I will have a call with world server interest group - consists of clients, interested in new technologies//
15:25:54 <dF> https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/54178/ballot_2674.html
15:26:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/29-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
15:26:18 <dF> XLIFF TC approval of the ITS feature for 2.1
15:26:33 <fsasaki> df :)
15:28:05 <fsasaki> [discussion on ITS2 / XLIFF 2.1 outreach]
15:30:51 <fsasaki> felix: testing the mapping - would we need input files in a given format, e.g. HTML5?
15:31:28 <fsasaki> david: how the extraction is performed is normally out of scope of xliff - this may be an issue with ITS now
15:31:41 <fsasaki> .. for ITS we may have more stages even than input - output
15:32:01 <fsasaki> .. not sure about step between original format and XLIFF - it is probably not going to be normative
15:32:29 <fsasaki> .. we can have best practices - the xliff tc had reference guides but never talked about how the extraction is done
15:33:09 <fsasaki> topic: other agenda items
15:33:16 <fsasaki> rdf-its ontology - postponed
15:33:38 <fsasaki> "open data management for public automated translation services"
15:33:44 <fsasaki> https://www.w3.org/International/its/wiki/Open_Data_Management_for_Public_Automated_Translation_Services
15:34:42 <fsasaki> serge: please keep this on the agenda
15:34:47 <fsasaki> .. this topic will develop further
15:35:09 <fsasaki> .. if we don't have substantial revision of the document, it is time to get through the channels we have and try to push this throuhg
15:35:24 <fsasaki> .. I will try to propose this as a presentation topic at the lt-innovate summit
15:35:33 <fsasaki> .. we can try to email this to various people in this theme
15:35:55 <fsasaki> action: felix to announce work for data managemnt document
15:35:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-52 - Announce work for data managemnt document [on Felix Sasaki - due 2014-10-06].
15:36:26 <fsasaki> topic: other open items
15:36:41 <fsasaki> http://www.dercom.de/en/projects
15:37:13 <fsasaki> "An interface COTI between authoring and translation memory systems is planned. The specification may be downloaded from this page and commented."
15:38:20 <fsasaki> felix: any comments on this? should we contact the people?
15:38:31 <fsasaki> david: the people do what they think they have to do
15:38:46 <fsasaki> .. I went through the doc today
15:38:54 <fsasaki> .. this has an overlap with linport
15:39:21 <fsasaki> .. approach of spec is similar to linport and tip approach - sending a zip package that can contain project files
15:39:52 <fsasaki> .. not sure how the project files are supposed to be structured - the doc seems to define a soap envelope
15:39:58 <fsasaki> .. which is not in conflict with what we are doing
15:40:06 <fsasaki> .. this is a kind of web services interface
15:40:17 <fsasaki> .. they define an XML wrapper based on SOAP
15:40:27 <fsasaki> .. there is not necessarily a conflict
15:41:05 <fsasaki> .. but I'm a bit worried that there was no interest in contact - there is a potential for mismatch
15:41:29 <fsasaki> .. but at the same time I think there is not a clash - one could propose xliff 2.0 as a payload for their soap envelope
15:41:40 <fsasaki> .. xliff does not say anything about the web service should work
15:42:10 <fsasaki> .. there may be a conflict with the object model and API that people now want to see for XLIFF 2.0
15:42:23 <fsasaki> .. above feedback is based on me looking into this before today's call
15:42:38 <fsasaki> .. behind this there is a trade org of german content producers
15:43:23 <fsasaki> .. the spec does not seem to follow some current practices, e.g. it has its own definitions of keywords "must, can, ..."
15:43:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/29-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
15:43:49 <fsasaki> .. they are referencing xml and soap, and they are referencing some standards
15:44:13 <fsasaki> jörg: there is a huge gap in communication between different communities - it seems they don't know about xliff and so on
15:45:46 <fsasaki> david: hard to achieve things via mail
15:46:18 <fsasaki> felix: will be at tekom again, will try again to contact them and see what happens
15:47:04 <fsasaki> david: maybe alan melby could be helpful - linport is in clahs with this
15:47:06 <fsasaki> jörg: not really
15:47:17 <fsasaki> .. it is a little bit from linport and tipp, and then their own way
15:47:30 <fsasaki> david: xliff can be payload of anything
15:48:31 <fsasaki> jörg: I can check with Alan to see if he has talked to these guys
15:48:58 <fsasaki> felix: thanks
15:49:53 <fsasaki> topic: aob
15:49:57 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Sep/0007.html
15:51:17 <fsasaki> adjourned, by to all! next call in three weeks
15:51:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/29-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
15:53:55 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/09/29-i18nits-actions.rdf :
15:53:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: felix to announce next call 20 october, to prepare for loc world [1]
15:53:55 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/09/29-i18nits-irc#T15-15-20
15:53:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: felix to announce work for data managemnt document [2]
15:53:55 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/09/29-i18nits-irc#T15-35-55