14:19:57 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dpub
14:19:57 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/09/22-dpub-irc
14:19:59 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:19:59 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dpub
14:20:01 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
14:20:01 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 40 minutes
14:20:02 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
14:20:02 <trackbot> Date: 22 September 2014
14:42:50 <pkra> pkra has joined #dpub
14:51:24 <ivan> Chair: Tzviya
14:52:43 <ivan> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2014Sep/0073.html
14:52:56 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting agenda for 2014-09-22: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2014Sep/0073.html
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14:56:27 <Zakim> DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has now started
14:56:34 <Zakim> +clapierre
14:57:00 <Zakim> +dauwhe
14:57:45 <dkaplan3> dkaplan3 has joined #dpub
14:57:59 <Zakim> +duga
14:58:08 <philm> philm has joined #dpub
14:58:23 <mgylling> mgylling has joined #dpub
14:58:48 <Zakim> +dkaplan3
14:59:02 <Zakim> + +1.212.364.aaaa
14:59:05 <tzviya> tzviya has joined #DPUB
14:59:18 <philm> zakim, aaaa is me
14:59:18 <Zakim> +philm; got it
14:59:26 <Zakim> +Tzviya
14:59:55 <azaroth> azaroth has joined #DPUB
15:00:17 <Zakim> +TimCole
15:00:44 <Nishit_Jain> Nishit_Jain has joined #dpub
15:00:49 <Zakim> +azaroth
15:00:57 <murakami> murakami has joined #dpub
15:01:07 <TimCole> TimCole has joined #dpub
15:01:11 <Zakim> +pkra
15:01:29 <Zakim> +Laura_Fowler
15:01:49 <Zakim> +Bill_Kasdorf
15:01:56 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-aix
15:01:56 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:01:57 <Zakim> +Ivan
15:02:27 <david_stroup> david_stroup has joined #dpub
15:02:28 <PatPagano> PatPagano has joined #dpub
15:02:29 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
15:02:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see clapierre, dauwhe, duga, dkaplan3, philm, Tzviya, TimCole, azaroth, pkra, Laura_Fowler, Bill_Kasdorf, Ivan
15:02:31 <Zakim> On IRC I see PatPagano, david_stroup, TimCole, murakami, Nishit_Jain, azaroth, tzviya, mgylling, philm, dkaplan3, tmichel, clapierre, brady_duga, pkra, Zakim, RRSAgent, dauwhe,
15:02:31 <Zakim> ... ivan, liam, astearns_, plinss, trackbot
15:02:32 <liza> liza has joined #dpub
15:02:32 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #dpub
15:02:55 <pkra> should we be worried?
15:02:58 <dauwhe> Zakim, good job!
15:02:58 <Zakim> I don't understand 'good job!', dauwhe
15:03:10 <Zakim> +Liam
15:03:14 <Zakim> +[Safari]
15:03:16 <fjh> fjh has joined #dpub
15:03:18 <tzviya> zakim, pick a victim
15:03:18 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Tzviya
15:03:30 <bjdmeest> bjdmeest has joined #dpub
15:03:32 <Zakim> +??P9
15:03:34 <tzviya> zakim, pick a victim
15:03:34 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose philm
15:03:35 <Zakim> + +1.585.217.aabb
15:03:41 <liza> zakim, Safari is me
15:03:41 <Zakim> +liza; got it
15:03:41 <tmichel> zakim, ??P9 is me
15:03:43 <Zakim> +tmichel; got it
15:03:49 <Zakim> +Ruben
15:03:51 <Zakim> +??P14
15:03:55 <Zakim> +??P13
15:03:56 <tzviya> zakim, pick a victim
15:03:58 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose dauwhe
15:04:04 <fjh> zakim, code?
15:04:04 <Zakim> the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), fjh
15:04:04 <david_stroup> 585.217
15:04:08 <tzviya> zakim, pick a victim
15:04:08 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ??P13
15:04:13 <ivan> zakim, aabb is david_stroup
15:04:14 <Zakim> +david_stroup; got it
15:04:14 <Zakim> -??P14
15:04:32 <azaroth> zakim, who is here?
15:04:32 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
15:04:33 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:04:34 <fjh> zakim, ipcaller is me
15:04:34 <tmichel> who is P13 and P14
15:04:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see clapierre, dauwhe, duga, dkaplan3, philm, Tzviya, TimCole, azaroth, pkra, Laura_Fowler, Bill_Kasdorf, Ivan, Liam, liza, tmichel, david_stroup, Ruben, ??P13,
15:04:36 <Zakim> ... [IPcaller]
15:04:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see clapierre, dauwhe, duga, dkaplan3, philm, Tzviya, TimCole, azaroth, pkra, Laura_Fowler, Bill_Kasdorf, Ivan, Liam, liza, tmichel, david_stroup, Ruben, ??P13,
15:04:36 <Zakim> ... [IPcaller]
15:04:38 <Zakim> On IRC I see bjdmeest, fjh, Bill_Kasdorf, liza, PatPagano, david_stroup, TimCole, murakami, Nishit_Jain, azaroth, tzviya, mgylling, philm, dkaplan3, tmichel, clapierre, brady_duga,
15:04:38 <Zakim> ... pkra, Zakim, RRSAgent, dauwhe, ivan, liam, astearns_, plinss, trackbot
15:04:38 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
15:04:38 <Zakim> +??P14
15:04:45 <fjh> zakim, who is here>
15:04:45 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is here>', fjh
15:04:47 <Zakim> +??P24
15:04:52 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
15:04:52 <Zakim> On the phone I see clapierre, dauwhe, duga, dkaplan3, philm, Tzviya, TimCole, azaroth, pkra, Laura_Fowler, Bill_Kasdorf, Ivan, Liam, liza, tmichel, david_stroup, Ruben, ??P13, fjh,
15:04:55 <Zakim> ... ??P14, ??P24
15:04:55 <Zakim> On IRC I see bjdmeest, fjh, Bill_Kasdorf, liza, PatPagano, david_stroup, TimCole, murakami, Nishit_Jain, azaroth, tzviya, mgylling, philm, dkaplan3, tmichel, clapierre, brady_duga,
15:04:55 <Zakim> ... pkra, Zakim, RRSAgent, dauwhe, ivan, liam, astearns_, plinss, trackbot
15:04:57 <Zakim> -??P24
15:05:14 <fjh> ScribeNick: fjh
15:05:21 <fjh> Present+ Frederick_Hirsch
15:05:21 <bjdmeest> zakim, Ruben is bjdmeest
15:05:22 <Zakim> +bjdmeest; got it
15:05:28 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
15:05:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see clapierre, dauwhe, duga, dkaplan3, philm, Tzviya, TimCole, azaroth, pkra, Laura_Fowler, Bill_Kasdorf, Ivan, Liam, liza, tmichel, david_stroup, bjdmeest, ??P13,
15:05:32 <Zakim> ... fjh, ??P14
15:05:32 <Zakim> On IRC I see bjdmeest, fjh, Bill_Kasdorf, liza, PatPagano, david_stroup, TimCole, murakami, Nishit_Jain, azaroth, tzviya, mgylling, philm, dkaplan3, tmichel, clapierre, brady_duga,
15:05:32 <Zakim> ... pkra, Zakim, RRSAgent, dauwhe, ivan, liam, astearns_, plinss, trackbot
15:05:43 <fjh> zakim, mute fjh
15:05:43 <Zakim> fjh should now be muted
15:05:49 <Zakim> +??P24
15:05:52 <fjh> zakim, unmute me
15:05:52 <Zakim> fjh should no longer be muted
15:05:53 <Zakim> -??P24
15:05:57 <tzviya> http://www.w3.org/2014/09/15-dpub-minutes.html
15:06:01 <bjdmeest> zakim, mute bjdmeest
15:06:01 <Zakim> bjdmeest should now be muted
15:06:01 <fjh> Topic: Minutes review
15:06:07 <fjh> no comments
15:06:13 <fjh> minutes approved
15:06:36 <murakami> zakim, ??P14 is me
15:06:36 <Zakim> +murakami; got it
15:06:38 <fjh> Topic: Changes at Dom level for Pagination
15:06:52 <Julie> Julie has joined #dpub
15:07:02 <fjh> brady: use cases have been on list for while, one use case is styling
15:07:12 <fjh> … useful for content creators
15:07:29 <tzviya> use cases: http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory#Pagination.2FDOM_interaction
15:07:32 <fjh> … implementers, e.g creating ebook reader, no idea how to enter paginated mode
15:07:47 <fjh> … turn pages, note visible pages, select text across pages. no apis exist
15:08:14 <fjh> … often use internal APIs, webkit has some, CSS hacks like using columns or frames/Javascript
15:08:30 <Zakim> + +1.646.336.aacc
15:08:32 <Luc> Luc has joined #dpub
15:08:35 <fjh> … doesn’t work with fancy page styling, semantics that it is a page is lost
15:09:09 <Julie> Julie Morris at 646 n umber
15:09:10 <dauwhe> q+
15:09:16 <fjh> … cannot use private port of webkit in ebook readers ?
15:09:28 <fjh> … need to be able to state it is a book with pages
15:09:28 <ivan> q+
15:09:34 <fjh> … listed many use cases
15:10:02 <fjh> … this is summary of problem, need public API for handling pagination, details not clear eyt
15:10:06 <fjh> s/eyt/yet/
15:10:29 <fjh> … need to understand a design, then API for control
15:10:56 <fjh> … DOM should be able to handle pages, possible extensions
15:10:57 <tzviya> ack dauwhe
15:10:58 <fjh> Zakim: q?
15:11:34 <fjh> dauwhe: discussed at CSS F2F a few weeks ago, peter lynch co-chair and tag member
15:11:43 <fjh> … box tree api
15:11:49 <fjh> zakim, who is making noise?
15:12:02 <Zakim> fjh, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: Bill_Kasdorf (8%), murakami (12%), dauwhe (96%), duga (67%)
15:12:13 <fjh> … separate from DOM, could navigate, all pagination defined
15:12:57 <fjh> … deprecate geometry apis in DOM and move to box tree api
15:13:21 <dauwhe> s/peter lynch/peter linss/
15:13:32 <fjh> … seems good
15:13:32 <fjh> ???: is this a DOM for boxes?
15:13:50 <ivan> s/???/brady_duga/
15:13:52 <tzviya> s/???/brady
15:13:56 <fjh> dauwhe: can move around boxes and deal with them, especially element fragmentation across boxes
15:14:00 <fjh> .. or pages
15:14:05 <tzviya> ack ivan
15:14:06 <fjh> s/../.../
15:14:28 <Luc> mute me
15:14:41 <Bill_Kasdorf> The people who are working on overlapping structures may be able to make some useful contributions to this issue
15:14:43 <fjh> ivan: if this CSS work really happens then really need to be involved in this
15:14:54 <fjh> q+
15:15:17 <fjh> Ivan: how does current API work when some tries to re-paginate
15:15:17 <david_stroup> https://www.npmjs.org/package/boxtree
15:15:31 <tzviya> q?
15:15:54 <fjh> ivan: re annotation, what is  the anchor that is used for an annotation for a page?
15:15:59 <Luc> 60#
15:16:04 <Luc> 61#
15:16:11 <fjh> ? depends on implementation
15:16:23 <fjh> dauwhe: depends on the implementation
15:16:26 <ivan> s/?/brady_duga:/
15:16:32 <fjh> … find known anchor elements
15:16:43 <fjh> … some are more fragile than others
15:16:57 <fjh> s;dauwhe: depends; brady_duga: depends/
15:17:14 <ivan> q+
15:17:25 <fjh> … re pagination, depends, webkit just reload document, using printing architecture
15:17:31 <fjh> … with columns, re-flow
15:17:39 <fjh> … re-pagination means starting over
15:17:45 <fjh> … what was behind the question?
15:17:55 <fjh> ivan: just wnated to clarify
15:18:21 <fjh> brady_duga: tricks to start re=paginating from current page, but earlier pages might start at strange locations
15:18:46 <fjh> ivan: webit has API but other tools also have APIs, are these other APIs public or private?
15:18:58 <fjh> brady_duga: haven’t looked, but there are browser demos
15:19:11 <fjh> … use different mechanisms, details not clear
15:19:31 <fjh> … issue of native code
15:19:45 <dauwhe> q+
15:20:12 <fjh> ivan: this group cannot decide what is in the DOM, but could list solutions that are public with pros/cons
15:20:31 <fjh> … realistic
15:20:42 <fjh> brady_duga: not clear, have looked at WebKit one
15:21:21 <fjh> … other approaches are mostly browser hacks or custom ports
15:21:26 <ivan> q-
15:21:33 <tzviya> ack fjh
15:22:12 <tzviya> ack dauwhe
15:22:29 <dauwhe> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-overflow-3/#paginated-overflow
15:22:33 <fjh> fjh: maybe a task force is appropriate for box tree work, to include annotations or dpub, depends on chartering
15:22:46 <fjh> dauwhe: have posted on how to handle overflow, see link above
15:23:02 <fjh> q?
15:23:32 <fjh> tzviya: print and page are different
15:23:39 <fjh> … could also talk about other non-scrolling views
15:23:57 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 to "non-scrolling view" instead of "pages"
15:24:04 <fjh> … next step, think how we might work with CSS group on box tree work
15:25:16 <tzviya> action @brady_duga draft basic needs of pagination API
15:25:16 <trackbot> Error finding '@brady_duga'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/track/users>.
15:25:28 <fjh> ivan: use dpub pagination repository
15:25:41 <tzviya> action duga draft basic needs of pagination API
15:25:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-23 - Draft basic needs of pagination api [on Brady Duga - due 2014-09-29].
15:26:05 <fjh> : box tree in CSS WG or where?
15:26:15 <ivan> s/:/brady:/
15:26:37 <fjh> dauwhe: peter linss is driving this, figuring out context, suggested joint TAG CSS work
15:26:45 <tzviya> q?
15:26:47 <fjh> brady: we might want to do something at TPAC as a joint session
15:27:05 <azaroth> +1 to joint TPAC session
15:27:32 <fjh> tzviya: brady, will you be at tpac?
15:27:35 <fjh> brady: yes
15:27:53 <tzviya> action tzviya plan CSS + pagination API meeting
15:27:54 <trackbot> Created ACTION-24 - Plan css + pagination api meeting [on Tzviya Siegman - due 2014-09-29].
15:28:26 <clapierre> I just registered with no problems and paid ;)
15:28:37 <fjh> tzviya: other comments
15:28:38 <fjh> none
15:28:52 <fjh> Topic: Pagination - layout & markup update
15:29:11 <fjh> dauwhe: request new publication location for WD
15:29:44 <fjh> … some think latinreq since not updated since march, obbiously not familiar with w3c time scales
15:30:07 <fjh> … added use case where text moves from 1 column into multiple columns
15:30:15 <fjh> … common design, hard to do in CSS
15:30:48 <fjh> ivan: no problem, can update WD
15:31:15 <fjh> … watch out for moratium for TPAC
15:31:40 <liam> [moratorium on publishing - 24 October through 3 November ]
15:31:57 <fjh> two publishing moratorium later this year:
15:31:58 <fjh>  * 24 October through 3 November during TPAC 2014 [1]
15:31:59 <fjh>  * 19 December through 5 January 2015
15:32:05 <fjh> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2014AprJun/0134.html
15:32:19 <tzviya> action tmichel publish updated version of latinreq with Dave
15:32:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-25 - Publish updated version of latinreq with dave [on Thierry Michel - due 2014-09-29].
15:32:25 <fjh> discussion of when to publish
15:32:45 <fjh> dave: plan to publish next Tue, 30 Sept
15:32:53 <fjh> dave: will prepare draft
15:33:58 <fjh> … have to deal with table cells and some other items, but need to ask what might be missing or where more work is needed, so good to publish
15:34:14 <fjh> tzviya: stem section needs more work
15:34:31 <fjh> … want tables that align on a character, such as for accounting books
15:34:40 <fjh> … line and equals sign (??)
15:34:53 <liam> s/line and/align on/
15:35:02 <pkra> q+
15:35:07 <fjh> … everyone that speciallizes in areas should take a look and see what they can add or update
15:35:29 <fjh> … I’ve been working on pagination when customers try to print ebooks
15:35:47 <fjh> … need some chemistry examples
15:35:54 <fjh> … physics, math
15:36:05 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 to vertical alignment on an arbitrary character that needs to be specified--common examples: . ) + = etc.
15:36:15 <fjh> … even scrreen captures would help, Dave can then respond
15:36:20 <fjh> call for volunteers met with silence
15:36:45 <fjh> dave: it would even help more if I can use some of the documents themselves, realize it might be an issue
15:36:59 <tzviya> ack pkra
15:37:17 <fjh> pkra: MathML specification has some examples
15:37:41 <fjh> … such features make it hard to implement MathML, solution here might help
15:38:03 <fjh> tzviya: exactly the sort of thing we are looking for
15:38:08 <fjh> dave: right
15:38:28 <fjh> Topic: Other Business
15:38:47 <fjh> brady: CSS meets Thur, dpub Thur/Fri, why not schedule joint meeting on Tur
15:38:51 <fjh> s/Tur/Thur/
15:39:00 <fjh> pkra: will be looking at this tomorrow
15:39:13 <fjh> s/pkra/tzviya/
15:39:20 <dauwhe> q+
15:39:32 <fjh> ivan: scheduling might be a challenge, many joint meetings
15:39:34 <tzviya> ack dauwhe
15:39:55 <fjh> dave: TPAC includes time every day for ad hoc meetings, does it not? could this be used?
15:40:24 <fjh> ivan: schedule depends on WGs, some don’t observe those slots
15:40:59 <fjh> ivan: if you have info on when CSS group might have slots that would help
15:41:44 <fjh> Topic: Adjourn
15:41:46 <Zakim> -liza
15:41:47 <Zakim> -duga
15:41:48 <Zakim> -Bill_Kasdorf
15:41:48 <Zakim> -philm
15:41:49 <azaroth> Bye all
15:41:49 <TimCole> TimCole has left #dpub
15:41:49 <Zakim> -Tzviya
15:41:50 <Zakim> - +1.646.336.aacc
15:41:50 <Zakim> -clapierre
15:41:50 <Zakim> -??P13
15:41:52 <Zakim> -Laura_Fowler
15:41:52 <Zakim> -david_stroup
15:41:52 <pkra> bye.
15:41:53 <dkaplan3> dkaplan3 has left #dpub
15:41:53 <Zakim> -TimCole
15:41:53 <Zakim> -pkra
15:41:54 <Zakim> -dauwhe
15:41:55 <Zakim> -Liam
15:41:55 <Zakim> -fjh
15:41:55 <Zakim> -azaroth
15:41:59 <Zakim> -bjdmeest
15:42:01 <Zakim> -dkaplan3
15:42:04 <Zakim> -Ivan
15:42:05 <Zakim> -murakami
15:42:13 <tmichel> rrsagent,draft minutes
15:42:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/22-dpub-minutes.html tmichel
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16:05:03 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, tmichel, in DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM
16:05:03 <Zakim> DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has ended
16:05:05 <Zakim> Attendees were clapierre, dauwhe, duga, dkaplan3, +1.212.364.aaaa, philm, Tzviya, TimCole, azaroth, pkra, Laura_Fowler, Bill_Kasdorf, Ivan, Liam, +1.585.217.aabb, liza, tmichel,
16:05:05 <Zakim> ... david_stroup, fjh, bjdmeest, murakami, +1.646.336.aacc
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17:59:28 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dpub
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