16:20:51 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #social
16:20:51 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/09/16-social-irc
16:20:53 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs 411
16:20:53 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #social
16:20:55 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SOCL
16:20:55 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 40 minutes
16:20:56 <trackbot> Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
16:20:56 <trackbot> Date: 16 September 2014
16:21:27 <hhalpin> does anyone believe their invited expert application is still not accepted?
16:21:32 <hhalpin> KevinMarks, I'm talkin to you :)
16:22:17 <hhalpin> [not accepted because we haven't received it - again, there was an error in SysTeams when setting up the WG with cc'ing chairs and me with IE applications, so missing things is quite probable right now]
16:22:20 <elf-pavlik> elf-pavlik has joined #social
16:22:55 <Shane> I am not on my usual machine today, is it fine for me to just stick to IRC for this meeting?
16:23:22 <hhalpin> yep, you can lurk in IRC
16:23:29 <tantek> Shane, I am only on IRC for this meeting
16:23:36 <tantek> because I'm in a different W3C meeting in person
16:24:03 <Shane> Excellent :) saves a lot of hassle!
16:29:27 <nicolagreco> nicolagreco has joined #social
16:30:44 <elf-pavlik> hi Shane, hhalpin, tantek :)
16:31:05 <tantek> hello elf-pavlik !
16:31:17 <Shane> elf-pavlik: Hi :)
16:31:38 <wilkie> hello
16:31:45 <elf-pavlik> hi wilkie!
16:31:58 <wilkie> elf-pavlik: hi! great work on the comparisons wiki pages
16:32:19 <wilkie> I've been following intently
16:33:13 <elf-pavlik> wilkie, thanks! i think of using something like SFW for side to side comparison http://fed.wiki.org/view/welcome-visitors/plugins.fed.wiki.org/about-plugins/plugins.fed.wiki.org/core-plugins
16:33:24 <englishm> englishm has joined #social
16:35:22 <elf-pavlik> preferably each page could live on a wiki of particular working group, but for now i just need better way to compare things
16:36:57 <markus> markus has joined #social
16:37:17 <wilkie> hey, sounds good. I'll follow your lead. If you get a reasonable boilerplate up it will be more obvious where somebody can contribute.
16:37:32 <wilkie> my 2c would be to do what is easiest
16:46:57 <wilkie> and then delegate some tasks to me to fill out stuff because I will gladly do that if I know I won't step on your toes
16:47:36 <elf-pavlik> Zakim, who's on the call?
16:47:36 <Zakim> T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has not yet started, elf-pavlik
16:47:38 <Zakim> On IRC I see markus, englishm, elf-pavlik, Zakim, RRSAgent, Shane, cmhobbs, tantek, deiu, barnabywalters, melvster, KevinMarks, mattl, tommorris, bryan_, Arnaud, shepazu, rhiaro,
16:47:38 <Zakim> ... oshepherd, Loqi, kylewm, bret, wilkie, rektide, Tsyesika, trackbot, botie, sandro, wseltzer
16:48:33 <rhiaro> Hi, I'm also going to have to stick to irc for this one
16:49:40 <elf-pavlik> hi rhiaro :) check out what i worked on during remoteStorage hack day last saturday - http://rshackday.hackdash.org/ :D
16:50:02 <Arnaud> the call is in 11mn!
16:50:08 <Arnaud> 10 now
16:50:20 <bblfish> bblfish has joined #social
16:50:33 <rhiaro> elf-pavlick amaaaaaaazing
16:51:11 <rhiaro> Don't calm down!
16:51:17 <Arnaud> lol
16:51:47 <rhiaro> Your intense productivity is inspiring
16:52:01 <rhiaro> I watch mailing lists with awe
16:52:09 <Arnaud> I agree it's great
16:52:29 <Arnaud> my only concern is that you expect everyone else to have as much time to dedicate to this
16:52:41 <Arnaud> I hope you realize that it's not going to be the case
16:52:51 <rhiaro> And as soon as I stop with having an actual job and go back to PhD I hope to be able to contribute a fraction as much
16:53:02 <rhiaro> (2.5 weeks!)
16:53:11 <dromasca> dromasca has joined #social
16:53:21 <Arnaud> I don't mean to discourage you, by any means, but know that for most people this is just one of the many things they work on and we can only expect so much from them
16:53:54 <elf-pavlik> Arnaud, I should calibrate my expectations to capacity of everyone else very soon ...
16:53:58 <tantek> elf-pavlik: what's your personal site?
16:54:17 <elf-pavlik> http://wwelves.org/perpetual-tripper
16:54:51 <akuckartz> akuckartz has joined #social
16:55:17 <elf-pavlik> server got offline yesterday thoug :( -- you can try it locally from https://github.com/elf-pavlik/webprofiled
16:55:48 <tantek> oh dear - yeah was just trying http://wwelves.org/ and not getting any response
16:56:36 <elf-pavlik> i need to contact friends from https://as250.net/ again about fixing it!
16:57:02 <akuckartz_> akuckartz_ has joined #social
16:57:18 <tantek> is that your hosting company?
16:57:22 <Zakim> T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has now started
16:57:29 <Zakim> +??P2
16:57:39 <elf-pavlik> Zakim, who's on the call?
16:57:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P2
16:57:50 <elf-pavlik> Zakim, P2 is me
16:57:50 <Zakim> sorry, elf-pavlik, I do not recognize a party named 'P2'
16:57:57 <elf-pavlik> Zakim, ??P2 is me
16:57:57 <Zakim> +elf-pavlik; got it
16:58:03 <elf-pavlik> Zakim, who's on the call?
16:58:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see elf-pavlik
16:58:16 <Zakim> + +972.3.645.aaaa
16:58:31 <dromasca> Zakim, aaaa is me
16:58:31 <Zakim> +dromasca; got it
16:58:54 <Arnaud> trackbot, start meeting
16:58:56 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs 411
16:58:58 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SOCL
16:58:58 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
16:58:59 <trackbot> Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
16:58:59 <trackbot> Date: 16 September 2014
16:59:25 <bblfish> bblfish has joined #social
17:00:01 <elf-pavlik> Zakim, who's on the call?
17:00:01 <Zakim> I notice T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has restarted
17:00:02 <Zakim> On the phone I see elf-pavlik, dromasca, +1.503.342.aabb, Arnaud
17:00:19 <aaronpk_> aaronpk_ has joined #social
17:00:29 <Zakim> + +1.559.707.aacc
17:00:32 <aaronpk_> Zakim, aabb is aaronpk
17:00:32 <Zakim> +aaronpk; got it
17:00:33 <jtauber> jtauber has joined #social
17:01:44 <dskiba> dskiba has joined #social
17:02:37 <markus> zakim, what's the code
17:02:37 <Zakim> I don't understand 'what's the code', markus
17:02:42 <markus> zakim, code?
17:02:42 <Zakim> the conference code is 7625 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), markus
17:03:02 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
17:03:02 <Zakim> On the phone I see elf-pavlik, dromasca, aaronpk, Arnaud, +1.559.707.aacc
17:03:05 <Arnaud> chair: Arnaud
17:03:15 <Arnaud> agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-09-16
17:03:18 <Zakim> +??P10
17:03:28 <Zakim> +??P9
17:03:30 <Zakim> +Sandro
17:03:52 <barnabywalters> I just joined
17:03:55 <Zakim> + +1.412.370.aadd
17:03:58 <Zakim> + +1.303.204.aaee
17:04:01 <Zakim> +??P15
17:04:10 <Arnaud> zakim, aacc is jasnell
17:04:10 <Zakim> +jasnell; got it
17:04:13 <wilkie> Zakim, aadd is me
17:04:13 <Zakim> +wilkie; got it
17:04:15 <Zakim> -??P15
17:04:17 <dskiba> zakim, aaee is me
17:04:17 <Zakim> +dskiba; got it
17:04:19 <akuckartz_> hi
17:04:22 <hhalpin> hhalpin has joined #social
17:04:23 <Zakim> +deiu
17:04:39 <hhalpin> Zakim, who's on the phone?
17:04:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see elf-pavlik (muted), dromasca, aaronpk, Arnaud, jasnell, ??P10, ??P9, Sandro, wilkie, dskiba, deiu (muted)
17:04:46 <Arnaud> zakim, who's making noise?
17:04:49 <hhalpin> Apologies, wil have to be in IRC rather than phone.
17:04:56 <Zakim> Arnaud, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 11 (28%), jasnell (5%), ??P10 (95%)
17:04:59 <Zakim> +??P18
17:05:00 <hhalpin> having a separate meeting at same time.
17:05:02 <aaronpk_> You've got to be kidding. Who plugged in a modem to the call?
17:05:03 <sandro> zakim, mute ??P10
17:05:03 <Zakim> ??P10 should now be muted
17:05:07 <barnabywalters> wow such noises
17:05:18 <hhalpin> Zakim, mute ??P18
17:05:18 <Zakim> ??P18 should now be muted
17:05:22 <Shane> That may have been me, sorry
17:05:26 <hhalpin> Zakim, unmute ??P18
17:05:26 <Zakim> ??P18 should no longer be muted
17:05:52 <bblfish_> bblfish_ has joined #social
17:05:59 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:05:59 <barnabywalters> huh it might have been me somehow
17:06:05 <Shane> Zakim, P18 is me
17:06:05 <Zakim> sorry, Shane, I do not recognize a party named 'P18'
17:06:10 <Shane> Zakim, ?P18 is me
17:06:10 <Zakim> sorry, Shane, I do not recognize a party named '?P18'
17:06:14 <jtauber> zakim, IPcaller is jtauber
17:06:14 <Zakim> +jtauber; got it
17:06:18 <Shane> Zakim, ??P18 is me
17:06:18 <Zakim> +Shane; got it
17:06:35 <Arnaud> zakim, who is on the call?
17:06:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see elf-pavlik (muted), dromasca, aaronpk, Arnaud, jasnell, ??P10 (muted), ??P9, Sandro, wilkie, dskiba, deiu (muted), Shane, jtauber
17:06:46 <Shane> I will not be able to use microphone but have managed to get onto the call to listen
17:07:26 <akuckartz_> can anybody hear me
17:07:26 <akuckartz_> ?
17:07:30 <Shane> akuckartz_: No
17:07:31 <elf-pavlik> http://www.w3.org/2006/tools/wiki/Zakim_Tips
17:07:35 <bblfish__> bblfish__ has joined #social
17:08:05 <barnabywalters> P9 is me
17:08:17 <akuckartz_> then P10 seems to be me...
17:08:18 <barnabywalters> Zakim, ??P9 is me
17:08:18 <Zakim> +barnabywalters; got it
17:08:28 <barnabywalters> the 41# tip is handy
17:08:32 <elf-pavlik> Zakim, who's on the call?
17:08:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see elf-pavlik (muted), dromasca, aaronpk, Arnaud, jasnell, ??P10 (muted), barnabywalters, Sandro, wilkie, dskiba, deiu (muted), Shane, jtauber
17:08:39 <Zakim> +??P15
17:08:43 <markus> zakim, ??P15 is me
17:08:43 <Zakim> +markus; got it
17:08:50 <Arnaud>  Zakim, ??P10 is akuckartz_
17:08:50 <Zakim> +akuckartz_; got it
17:09:16 <akuckartz_> I seem to be muted but I can try to scribe
17:09:43 <akuckartz_> yes, but I am muted
17:09:45 <aaronpk> aaronpk has joined #social
17:10:03 <akuckartz_> Ok, I will try
17:10:08 <Arnaud> scribe: akuckartz_
17:10:19 <deiu> scribenick: akuckartz_
17:10:26 <Shane> I tend to have SIP drop out 30 mins in, but just requires reconnecting
17:11:07 <akuckartz_> searching for the tpics
17:11:16 <Arnaud> topic: Approval of Minutes of 9 September 2014 Teleconf
17:11:16 <hhalpin> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-09-16
17:11:24 <Arnaud> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-09-09-minutes
17:11:29 <hhalpin> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-09-09-minutes
17:11:48 <elf-pavlik> i made one small edit to minutes today: https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?title=Socialwg/2014-09-09-minutes&diff=prev&oldid=76918
17:12:23 <hhalpin> agenda+ TPAC
17:12:27 <hhalpin> agenda+ Use-cases
17:12:28 <Zakim> +??P20
17:12:30 <Zakim> -markus
17:12:32 <hhalpin> agenda+ Social Syntax
17:12:37 <hhalpin> agenda+ AcivityStreams 2.0
17:12:41 <hhalpin> agenda+ AOB
17:13:34 <akuckartz_> zakim, agenda
17:13:34 <Zakim> I don't understand 'agenda', akuckartz_
17:13:51 <Arnaud> topic: Tracking of Actions and Issues
17:13:51 <akuckartz_> Difficult without beeing able to speak...
17:14:10 <Arnaud> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Scribes
17:14:43 <akuckartz_> action 1 closed.
17:14:43 <trackbot> Error finding '1'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Social/track/users>.
17:15:03 <akuckartz_> close action 1
17:15:53 <elf-pavlik> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-09-16#Social_data_syntax
17:16:00 <Zakim> + +26226234aaff
17:16:05 <akuckartz_> next action will be closed by end of week.
17:16:47 <akuckartz_> close action 3.
17:17:15 <akuckartz_> zakim, next agendum
17:17:15 <Zakim> agendum 1. "TPAC" taken up [from hhalpin]
17:17:16 <tiborKatelbach> tiborKatelbach has joined #social
17:18:02 <akuckartz_> Reminder: Registration required to participate in TPAC
17:18:17 <elf-pavlik> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-10-27
17:18:19 <elf-pavlik> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-10-28
17:18:46 <elf-pavlik> q+
17:19:03 <akuckartz_> See https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-09-16#TPAC for details
17:20:20 <hhalpin> Note if you reigster quickly you get a discount on price! Register by Oct 1st - 75 USD vs. 150 USD I think..
17:20:32 <akuckartz_> Members are asked to provide input for agenda.
17:20:57 <Shane> I've added myself as a remote (depending on times, I'm UK based)
17:20:58 <Zakim> +??P22
17:21:01 <elf-pavlik> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Talk:Socialwg/2014-10-27
17:21:06 <bret> i just joined the call
17:21:11 <Arnaud> q?
17:21:17 <tantek> I propose we use at least 50% of the time of the socialwg TPAC f2f for Barcamp-style sessions.
17:21:33 <Arnaud> ack ??P9
17:21:37 <Arnaud> ack elf-pavlik
17:22:48 <akuckartz_> For participants see https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-10-27
17:23:00 <bret> Zakim, +??P22 is bret
17:23:00 <Zakim> sorry, bret, I do not recognize a party named '+??P22'
17:23:09 <bret> Zakim, ??P22 is bret
17:23:11 <Zakim> +bret; got it
17:23:43 <akuckartz_> zakim, next agendum
17:23:43 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Use-cases" taken up [from hhalpin]
17:25:53 <akuckartz_> We need to finish the list of use-cases at some point. F2F should be used to finish this.
17:25:55 <tiborKatelbach> Zakim, ??P9 is tiborKatelbach
17:25:55 <Zakim> I already had ??P9 as barnabywalters, tiborKatelbach
17:26:08 <barnabywalters> huh
17:26:12 <tiborKatelbach> sorry
17:26:15 <barnabywalters> I’m actually dropping out in a sec
17:26:23 <barnabywalters> so you can have my ID :(
17:26:24 <barnabywalters> :)
17:26:28 <Zakim> -barnabywalters
17:26:29 <tantek> I don't think " finish the list of use-cases" makes sense
17:26:32 <Loqi> it'll be ok
17:26:37 <tantek> I'd rather see the list of use-cases grow over time
17:26:38 <tiborKatelbach> Zakim, ??P9 is tiborKatelbach
17:26:38 <Zakim> sorry, tiborKatelbach, I do not recognize a party named '??P9'
17:26:56 <barnabywalters> tiborKatelbach: dial 41# and see what Zakim says
17:27:06 <tiborKatelbach> 41#
17:27:16 <Shane> I agree with tantek, we don't want to limit it too much but just make sure we are working within the scope of the charter
17:27:43 <wilkie> tiborKatelbach: was that you that 41#?
17:27:48 <tiborKatelbach> Zakim, aaff is tiborKatelbach
17:27:48 <Zakim> +tiborKatelbach; got it
17:27:55 <tiborKatelbach> yep
17:28:03 <Arnaud> q?
17:28:09 <tiborKatelbach> sorry
17:28:10 <Arnaud> queue=
17:28:56 <elf-pavlik> wiki down? http://isup.me/https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg
17:28:57 <elf-pavlik> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg#Use_Cases
17:28:58 <elf-pavlik> q?
17:28:59 <elf-pavlik> q+
17:29:07 <tiborKatelbach> please repeat the type of use cases your looking for ?
17:29:17 <Arnaud> ack elf-pavlik
17:29:50 <elf-pavlik> I'll work in next days on https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Check-In_Use_Case
17:30:53 <akuckartz_> I try
17:30:54 <tiborKatelbach> q+
17:31:04 <Arnaud> ack tiborKatelbach
17:31:25 <tantek> elf-pavlik: before working on the use-case I'd suggest getting your site working!
17:32:19 <elf-pavlik> tantek, of course but friends who host it need to fix their server, i'll sort it out in next days!
17:32:37 <akuckartz_> Question discussed: Will we create a "final" use case document or one in parallel to the work of the WG?
17:32:56 <tantek> akuckartz_: I don't think any such "final" document makes  sense.
17:33:00 <tantek> dated snapshots maybe
17:33:07 <tantek> but we should assuming living use-cases documentation
17:34:02 <Zakim> +??P9
17:34:04 <rhiaro> +1 to living use case document
17:34:05 <akuckartz_> Requirements will be based on the use-cases
17:34:30 <elf-pavlik> q+
17:34:44 <akuckartz_> Members invited to seriously look at the use cases
17:34:49 <Zakim> -??P9
17:34:52 <rhiaro> People find new crazy things to do with social technology all the time [citation needed]
17:34:53 <Shane> Why is check-in a different page to the other use-cases?
17:35:27 <Zakim> -Shane
17:35:29 <akuckartz_> Who will take ownership of the use case document ? Should be more than one person.
17:35:32 <Arnaud> ack elf-pavlik
17:35:56 <Zakim> +??P9
17:36:04 <Shane> Zakim, ??9 is me
17:36:04 <Zakim> sorry, Shane, I do not recognize a party named '??9'
17:36:05 <wilkie> with social systems, I believe you are as close to human creativity as possible, so you have to be flexible and use-cases will be surprising and develop as you go
17:36:11 <Shane> Zakim, ??P9 is me
17:36:11 <Zakim> +Shane; got it
17:36:51 <tantek> why does there need to be "ownership" of the use case document?
17:37:01 <elf-pavlik> I suggested that for group collaboration use cases we can just make sure that we cover our needs for W3 groups
17:37:04 <rhiaro> +1 wilkie
17:37:28 <Arnaud> q?
17:38:04 <bblfish> bblfish has joined #social
17:38:06 <akuckartz_> zakim, next agendum
17:38:06 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Social Syntax" taken up [from hhalpin]
17:38:44 <elf-pavlik> i didn't create it :) i think james?
17:39:01 <akuckartz_> This page was created: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_syntax
17:39:07 <Zakim> +??P15
17:39:12 <markus> zakim, ??p15 is me
17:39:12 <Zakim> +markus; got it
17:39:34 <elf-pavlik> q+
17:40:46 <bblfish_> bblfish_ has joined #social
17:41:22 <tiborKatelbach> q+
17:41:26 <elf-pavlik> akuckartz_, did you capture it?
17:41:29 <akuckartz_> Members should look at that page. Google invited to join this WG.
17:41:31 <Arnaud> ack elf-pavlik
17:41:59 <akuckartz_> especially regarding schema.org
17:42:17 <Arnaud> ack tiborKatelbach
17:42:41 <Zakim> -oshepherd
17:42:42 <sandro> elf-pavlik, and everyone else, feel free to scribe your own words
17:42:56 <Zakim> +??P18
17:43:06 <Shane> I do like the idea of being interoperable across syntaxes if possible
17:43:33 <cmhobbs_> cmhobbs_ has joined #social
17:43:39 <akuckartz_> Question discussed: do we need to select one vocabulary or can we be more open ?
17:44:39 <elf-pavlik> q+
17:44:48 <tantek> we should document existing vocabularies *in use* with *actual examples* of URLs of usage
17:44:53 <akuckartz_> Minimum vocabulary subset should be specified
17:44:56 <markus> do we have a list of what is currently missing in schema.org?
17:45:08 <tantek> why frame it as "missing in schema.org"?
17:45:22 <tantek> why use schema.org as a starting point at all?
17:45:36 <markus> because someone just said some things are missing in schema.org
17:45:37 <tantek> it's shown to be badly overdesigned, e.g. /Volcano has faxmachine
17:45:42 <markus> I'm wondering what those things are
17:45:54 <elf-pavlik> tantek, strong incentive for people to use it - Google, Yahoo, Bing, Yandex supporting it
17:45:57 <tantek> what's missing in schema.org is any sense of minimal design
17:46:06 <wilkie> I agree with having a standard and reasonable subset and then allow graceful extensibility of vocab.
17:46:15 <tantek> elf-pavlik: they claim to use it - actual support is unknown
17:46:19 <wilkie> a minimal base that is
17:46:25 <elf-pavlik> q?
17:46:27 <tantek> schema.org is a horrible starting point
17:46:48 <tantek> elf-pavlik: could you document actual evidence of Google, Yahoo, Bing, Yandex supporting it beyond validation tools?
17:46:55 <tantek> which objects? which properties?
17:47:11 <tantek> not only do I think that's futile, but a waste of time
17:47:20 <markus> why tantek? bad design? too complex? ...?
17:47:24 <tantek> both
17:47:27 <sandro> tantek, http://blog.sgo.to/2014/09/schemaorg-actions-implementations.html
17:47:31 <akuckartz_> There is no consensus regarding schema.org
17:47:32 <Arnaud> ack elf-pavlik
17:47:34 <elf-pavlik> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Collection_Comparison
17:47:37 <tantek> and frankly, out of order for this working group, since we're working on *openly developed* vocabularies
17:47:48 <tantek> and schema has been developed by an oligopoly at best
17:48:33 <oshepherd> q+
17:48:37 <markus> what hasn't? :-)
17:49:00 <tantek> markus - nearly everything else
17:49:15 <tantek> e.g. vCard, hCard, h-card etc.
17:49:27 <tantek> everything in microformats, ActivityStreams etc. was developed fully openly
17:49:31 <tiborKatelbach> as James said it is important to try to pull someone from schema.org into our discussions
17:49:37 <elf-pavlik> Arnaud, -- suggests to fucs on what we need and then based on that look at vocabularies
17:49:39 <Arnaud> ack oshepherd
17:49:52 <tantek> so no, I see no reason to include any use of schema unless there is a member here who feels they need it
17:49:59 <akuckartz_> We first need to identify and define the information we want to exchange. Then we have a basis for the vocabularies.
17:50:16 <tantek> how about documenting the information we *are* exchanging?
17:50:20 <elf-pavlik> oshepherd, can you add you point to https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Collection_Comparison
17:50:21 <tantek> as opposed to *want to*
17:50:33 <elf-pavlik> +1 tantek
17:50:38 <tantek> I'd rather make this *real world usage* based
17:50:39 <bret> sandro thats a nice list, but its search centric.  any use in a social applicaiton?
17:50:46 <tantek> rather than *arm chair wishlist* based
17:50:47 <rhiaro> I've looked at schema.org wrt connecting humans with creative media they publish in the web (which is in scope for social I reckon) and found it hit and miss, generally not a lot of use
17:50:59 <bret> i guess the email thing is social, but limited to gmail
17:51:10 <tantek> right
17:51:19 <wilkie> microformats and activitystreams > schema.org for everything tantek has said about openness in particular
17:51:24 <markus> +1000 to start with use cases and requirements
17:51:33 <elf-pavlik> Arnaud, -- emphasizes importance of gathering USE CASES and agreeing on them
17:51:47 <wilkie> real world usage and use cases should drive the minimal base vocab/actions
17:51:54 <sandro> bret, I have no idea, sorry.     I just was handed that list this morning, when I asked someone at Google about this work.
17:52:06 <bret> ill keep my eyes out too
17:52:18 <akuckartz_> zakim, next agendum
17:52:18 <Zakim> agendum 4. "AcivityStreams 2.0" taken up [from hhalpin]
17:52:50 <elf-pavlik> Zakim, who's on the call?
17:52:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see elf-pavlik (muted), dromasca, aaronpk, Arnaud, jasnell, akuckartz_ (muted), Sandro, wilkie, dskiba, deiu (muted), jtauber, tiborKatelbach, bret, Shane, markus,
17:52:53 <Zakim> ... oshepherd
17:53:09 <tantek> I'm going to point out that "search" and "email" and "app linking" are not among the use-cases / scope that we're looking at in this WG - so EVERY example shown in http://blog.sgo.to/2014/09/schemaorg-actions-implementations.html is out of scope for this working group
17:53:13 <bret> ack! sorry
17:53:14 <tantek> NONE of those are social
17:53:27 <akuckartz_> Where do we stand? Are there any issues?
17:53:44 <aaronpk> the only example there that's social is the RSVP example in gmail
17:53:54 <tantek> so yes, there is a thing called schema, created by an oligopoly, used for use-cases *specific* to those in the oligopoly, and *none* of it related to anything social (person to person)
17:54:28 <bret> Zakim, mute me
17:54:28 <Zakim> bret should now be muted
17:54:41 <tantek> I'm going to keep pushing back on this - I see no actual *social* use of schema on the *web* from any of the examples given.
17:55:00 <akuckartz_> Members asked to look at the document and provide feedback. Use GitHub issue tracker.
17:55:01 <tantek> gmail-specific proprietary extensions does not count as social web, sorry to say.
17:55:18 <Arnaud> q?
17:55:27 <wilkie> +1 tantek
17:55:33 <akuckartz_> zakim, next agendum
17:55:33 <Zakim> agendum 5. "AOB" taken up [from hhalpin]
17:55:38 <aaronpk> +1 tantek
17:55:43 <tantek> also as noted in the comments on that page: "confusing that the screenshots don't match the examples"
17:55:53 <Shane> I have to head out now, sorry. I agree with the points tantek is making.
17:55:56 <tantek> so basically, I don't believe that "schemaorg-actions-implementations" page at all
17:56:24 <Zakim> -Shane
17:56:34 <tiborKatelbach> +1 tantek
17:56:46 <wilkie> schema, from that list especially, seems to not have social-web implementations but rather corporate opportunistic uses that will likely be thrown away
17:57:01 <tantek> we can safely ignore schema
17:57:24 <tantek> for purposes of this wg
17:57:25 <akuckartz_> We should clarifiy the role of WG, IG and CG. Volunteer?
17:57:30 <tiborKatelbach> all this should be shared outside of this group, unless I missed them out there
17:57:41 <tantek> akuckartz_: please rephrase that as a question about the charter
17:57:46 <tantek> s/charter/charters
17:57:47 <Loqi> tantek meant to say: akuckartz_: please rephrase that as a question about the charters
17:57:53 <tantek> of WG and IG
17:58:03 <tantek> roles are defined in the charters
17:58:03 <elf-pavlik> Arnaud: community groups - free form, can produce documents but binding only to members of group
17:58:10 <bblfish> bblfish has joined #social
17:58:22 <akuckartz_>  Rephrased as suggested by elf-pavlk and others
17:59:01 <elf-pavlik> Arnaud: working groups - in charge of producing actual specifications and have set time to deliver
17:59:24 <elf-pavlik> Arnaud: overlap in WG and IG and we rely on it
17:59:38 <Zakim> -dromasca
17:59:41 <elf-pavlik> overlap in membership
18:00:17 <Zakim> -dskiba
18:00:31 <akuckartz_> WG is limited in time, Chairs of WG and IG are in contact
18:00:42 <Zakim> -jasnell
18:00:47 <Zakim> -jtauber
18:01:06 <akuckartz_> I will do the rest tomorrow!
18:01:15 <Zakim> -aaronpk
18:01:15 <akuckartz_> bye
18:01:15 <tantek> ACTION Arnaud: Add "What is the role of Social WG, IG and CG?" as an FAQ to https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg#FAQ
18:01:15 <trackbot> Created ACTION-4 - Add "what is the role of social wg, ig and cg?" as an faq to https://www.w3.org/wiki/socialwg#faq [on Arnaud Le Hors - due 2014-09-23].
18:01:16 <Zakim> -Sandro
18:01:16 <Zakim> -deiu
18:01:18 <Zakim> -elf-pavlik
18:01:20 <Zakim> -Arnaud
18:01:22 <Zakim> -wilkie
18:01:22 <Zakim> -markus
18:01:24 <Zakim> -tiborKatelbach
18:01:25 <Zakim> -bret
18:01:30 <Zakim> -oshepherd
18:02:20 <Zakim> -akuckartz_
18:02:21 <Zakim> T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has ended
18:02:21 <Zakim> Attendees were elf-pavlik, +972.3.645.aaaa, dromasca, +1.503.342.aabb, Arnaud, +1.559.707.aacc, aaronpk, Sandro, +1.412.370.aadd, +1.303.204.aaee, jasnell, wilkie, dskiba, deiu,
18:02:21 <Zakim> ... jtauber, Shane, barnabywalters, markus, akuckartz_, oshepherd, +26226234aaff, bret, tiborKatelbach
18:02:30 <sandro> http://blog.sgo.to/2014/09/schemaorg-actions-implementations.html
18:02:34 <bret> sorry about the noise
18:02:48 <elf-pavlik> sandro, what about this post?
18:03:12 <tiborKatelbach> tantek I think you should write and share your thoughts about comparing the 2 vocabularies , it could be usefull for newcommers out there
18:03:34 <tantek> tiborKatelbach: there are too many secondary vocabularies to bother with
18:03:53 <tantek> schema is a non-openly developed bloated vocabulary used for very specific big-company vertical uses
18:04:14 <tiborKatelbach> at least to put away the ones from an oligopoly
18:04:31 <elf-pavlik> tantek, i don't disagree but at the same time has some advantages - eg. learning materials https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB94dIamAQc
18:04:48 <tantek> I'm going to ignore it until someone in this WG actually decides to publish it on their own site (in all seriousness, not just as a test)
18:05:01 <tiborKatelbach> I'm undersstanding this now but was looking for such info a while back and found nothing of the kind
18:05:12 <tantek> tiborKatelbach: what info are you looking for?
18:05:19 <bblfish_> bblfish_ has joined #social
18:05:40 <elf-pavlik> tantek, my website ATM uses mostly schema.org + others when needed https://github.com/elf-pavlik/webprofiled/blob/master/test/fixtures/perpetual-tripper/index.json
18:05:54 <tiborKatelbach> before starting working I was looking around
18:06:01 <elf-pavlik> i know, i know i need to ask friendly hosts to fix their service ASAP ;)
18:06:05 <aaronpk> elf-pavlik: your home page is a JSON file?
18:06:17 <rhiaro> Not looked into it deeply, but would publish schema.org for seo purposes.. That's all though
18:06:20 <tiborKatelbach> for critics about schema being oushed by the big players
18:06:27 <Arnaud> trackbot, end meeting
18:06:27 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
18:06:27 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
18:06:30 <tantek> elf-pavlik: for testing or ?
18:06:31 <tiborKatelbach> I wanted to know why I shouldn't use it
18:06:35 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:06:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/16-social-minutes.html trackbot
18:06:36 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
18:06:38 <tantek> what actual use-case are you solving with it?
18:06:53 <Arnaud> rrsagent, make log public
18:07:58 <elf-pavlik> i would prefer use other web search engines but for now most people uses big ones, so them understanding data i publish seems to me an advantage
18:08:11 <tiborKatelbach> I build for example a event ticketing system , Json-ld based on schema.org
18:08:16 <tantek> elf-pavlik: those search engines also all support open microformats
18:08:24 <tantek> so there is no need to do the extra work for schema
18:08:29 <Arnaud> tantek: for the record, I don't think it's very polite to give people actions without their consent :)
18:08:41 <tiborKatelbach> what ever I'm building from now on, I'm structuring based on a common vocab
18:08:49 <tantek> Arnaud: I gave you a clerical action - you already answered the question in the minutes :)
18:08:57 <tiborKatelbach> which I thought was schema untill I joined SWG
18:08:58 <elf-pavlik> or stuff like: Getting your events into the Knowledge Graph http://youtu.be/XXw8g-FbemI
18:08:58 <tantek> I figured since you were chair that wasn't too much of an ask :)
18:09:35 <tantek> so a lot of this is "how to get your stuff into Google's proprietary aggregation"
18:09:39 <tantek> none of it is social
18:09:48 <aaronpk> SEO is not a social use case
18:10:01 <elf-pavlik> +1 Arnaud (on not assigning tasks to others!)
18:10:03 <tantek> right, we should document that explicitly as a non-use-case for the WG
18:10:40 <Arnaud> tiborKatelbach: are you officially a member of the WG?
18:10:55 <elf-pavlik> tantek, how about self hosted community hubs aggregating events
18:11:13 <tantek> elf-pavlik: URL?
18:11:22 <elf-pavlik> and why to force people to - you either show up in indie hub OR google/yahoo/bing/yandex results
18:11:27 <tiborKatelbach> only requested for the moment
18:11:42 <tantek> elf-pavlik: not true - as google/yahoo/bing/yandex results support indexing microformats as well
18:11:56 <elf-pavlik> next 3 days we will work on http://directory.open-steps.org/
18:12:13 <Arnaud> you requested an Invited Expert status?
18:12:20 <tiborKatelbach> I made the request but got no responses
18:12:27 <elf-pavlik> we already have prove of concept where people can publish their profiles for examle using http://remotestorage.io instead of filling up google form
18:12:44 <Arnaud> yeah, something went wrong with the Invited Expert application system
18:12:45 <tiborKatelbach> I follow the form
18:13:04 <tiborKatelbach> oh ok
18:13:11 <Arnaud> are you affiliated with a W3C member organization?
18:13:12 <aaronpk> http://calagator.org/ is a community event aggregator, all events are marked up with the h-event microformats2 vocab
18:13:13 <tiborKatelbach> should I try again ?
18:13:21 <tiborKatelbach> yes
18:13:29 <tantek> tiborKatelbach: I see your entry here https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg#Applied_for_Membership
18:13:35 <Arnaud> which organization?
18:13:37 <bret> aaronpk, do the #social loqi logs have a homescreen shortcut?
18:13:46 <elf-pavlik> tantek, can you maybe add links to support of microformats by 'big players' to https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Vocabulary_Comparison
18:13:57 <tiborKatelbach> NGO Open Atlas, or company O.R.D
18:14:02 <aaronpk> bret: yes http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/today?bookmark
18:14:08 <tantek> elf-pavlik: see http://microformats.org/wiki/search
18:14:32 <elf-pavlik> tantek, thx!
18:14:57 <Arnaud> wait, open atla isn't a member of w3c, is it?
18:15:39 <tiborKatelbach> we are a small NGO
18:15:43 <elf-pavlik> tiborKatelbach, http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Member/List
18:16:28 <tiborKatelbach> I'm registered personnaly and represent them , I didn't think it was necessary , but I can go ahead if yo like
18:16:46 <Arnaud> the W3C is a member organization
18:16:59 <Arnaud> organizations that want to participate have to become a member
18:17:10 <Arnaud> and pay the associated membership due
18:17:48 <tiborKatelbach> it's non profit and doesnt have much funds for the moment
18:18:00 <Arnaud> as an effort to be as inclusive as possible the w3c also allows limited participation of invited experts
18:18:04 <tiborKatelbach> when it will , we'll suport
18:18:20 <Arnaud> for the latter, you need to apply - which I guess you did
18:18:35 <tiborKatelbach> yes I did
18:18:44 <Arnaud> invited expert status is granted at the discretion of the chairs and w3c staff
18:18:47 <tiborKatelbach> and I'm registered in several groups
18:19:01 <Arnaud> well, you're not registered on this group :)
18:19:31 <tiborKatelbach> does that mean I wont be ?
18:19:50 <tiborKatelbach> I don't undestand ?
18:20:02 <Arnaud> what do you not understand? I'm happy to explain
18:20:39 <jasnell> jasnell has joined #social
18:20:53 <deiu> tiborKatelbach: you can only participate in this group if you are either a member of an affiliated organization (with W3C membership) or you have been approved as an invited expert
18:20:53 <tiborKatelbach> as I received no response I don't know the status of the registration , will it be discussed ?
18:21:23 <Arnaud> ok, I understand
18:21:27 <Arnaud> your application is pending
18:21:38 <tiborKatelbach> ok that's fine
18:21:42 <tiborKatelbach> thanks
18:22:07 <Arnaud> as I said, it's a bit messy unfortunately because we have had problems with the invited expert application system
18:22:18 <Arnaud> normally the chairs are notified automatically, we haven't been
18:22:49 <tiborKatelbach> so now you've found my lost request , right ?
18:22:56 <Arnaud> yes :)
18:23:01 <tiborKatelbach> :)
18:23:12 <tiborKatelbach> that's the begining of the good news
18:23:17 <Arnaud> ok, gotta go
18:23:18 <Arnaud> ttyl
18:24:31 <tantek> good night!
18:25:00 <tiborKatelbach> bye everyone !
18:28:09 <Arnaud> Arnaud has joined #social
18:28:21 <bblfish> bblfish has joined #social
18:28:57 <Arnaud1> Arnaud1 has joined #social
18:29:01 <bblfish_> bblfish_ has joined #social
18:30:21 <hhalpin> hhalpin has joined #social
18:30:36 <hhalpin> RRSAgent, generate minutes
18:30:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/16-social-minutes.html hhalpin
18:53:32 <barnabywalters> barnabywalters has joined #social
18:54:37 <bblfish> bblfish has joined #social
19:48:29 <barnabywalters> barnabywalters has joined #social
19:49:45 <markus_> markus_ has joined #social
19:51:27 <jasnell> jasnell has joined #social
19:56:39 <barnabywalters> barnabywalters has joined #social
20:01:37 <markus_> markus_ has joined #social
20:09:02 <barnabywalters> barnabywalters has joined #social
20:16:02 <Arnaud> Arnaud has joined #social
20:32:47 <jasnell> jasnell has joined #social
20:39:57 <nicolagreco> nicolagreco has joined #social
20:47:39 <bblfish> bblfish has joined #social
20:50:34 <Arnaud1> Arnaud1 has joined #social
21:59:12 <markus> markus has joined #social
22:47:23 <bblfish> bblfish has joined #social
23:05:49 <barnabywalters> barnabywalters has joined #social