IRC log of social on 2014-09-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:20:51 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #social

16:20:51 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/09/16-social-irc

16:20:53 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs 411

16:20:53 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #social

16:20:55 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be SOCL

16:20:55 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 40 minutes

16:20:56 [trackbot]

Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference

16:20:56 [trackbot]

Date: 16 September 2014

16:21:27 [hhalpin]

does anyone believe their invited expert application is still not accepted?

16:21:32 [hhalpin]

KevinMarks, I'm talkin to you :)

16:22:17 [hhalpin]

[not accepted because we haven't received it - again, there was an error in SysTeams when setting up the WG with cc'ing chairs and me with IE applications, so missing things is quite probable right now]

16:22:20 [elf-pavlik]

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16:22:55 [Shane]

I am not on my usual machine today, is it fine for me to just stick to IRC for this meeting?

16:23:22 [hhalpin]

yep, you can lurk in IRC

16:23:29 [tantek]

Shane, I am only on IRC for this meeting

16:23:36 [tantek]

because I'm in a different W3C meeting in person

16:24:03 [Shane]

Excellent :) saves a lot of hassle!

16:29:27 [nicolagreco]

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16:30:44 [elf-pavlik]

hi Shane, hhalpin, tantek :)

16:31:05 [tantek]

hello elf-pavlik !

16:31:17 [Shane]

elf-pavlik: Hi :)

16:31:38 [wilkie]

hello

16:31:45 [elf-pavlik]

hi wilkie!

16:31:58 [wilkie]

elf-pavlik: hi! great work on the comparisons wiki pages

16:32:19 [wilkie]

I've been following intently

16:33:13 [elf-pavlik]

wilkie, thanks! i think of using something like SFW for side to side comparison http://fed.wiki.org/view/welcome-visitors/plugins.fed.wiki.org/about-plugins/plugins.fed.wiki.org/core-plugins

16:33:24 [englishm]

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16:35:22 [elf-pavlik]

preferably each page could live on a wiki of particular working group, but for now i just need better way to compare things

16:36:57 [markus]

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16:37:17 [wilkie]

hey, sounds good. I'll follow your lead. If you get a reasonable boilerplate up it will be more obvious where somebody can contribute.

16:37:32 [wilkie]

my 2c would be to do what is easiest

16:46:57 [wilkie]

and then delegate some tasks to me to fill out stuff because I will gladly do that if I know I won't step on your toes

16:47:36 [elf-pavlik]

Zakim, who's on the call?

16:47:36 [Zakim]

T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has not yet started, elf-pavlik

16:47:38 [Zakim]

On IRC I see markus, englishm, elf-pavlik, Zakim, RRSAgent, Shane, cmhobbs, tantek, deiu, barnabywalters, melvster, KevinMarks, mattl, tommorris, bryan_, Arnaud, shepazu, rhiaro,

16:47:38 [Zakim]

... oshepherd, Loqi, kylewm, bret, wilkie, rektide, Tsyesika, trackbot, botie, sandro, wseltzer

16:48:33 [rhiaro]

Hi, I'm also going to have to stick to irc for this one

16:49:40 [elf-pavlik]

hi rhiaro :) check out what i worked on during remoteStorage hack day last saturday - http://rshackday.hackdash.org/ :D

16:50:02 [Arnaud]

the call is in 11mn!

16:50:08 [Arnaud]

10 now

16:50:20 [bblfish]

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16:50:33 [rhiaro]

elf-pavlick amaaaaaaazing

16:51:11 [rhiaro]

Don't calm down!

16:51:17 [Arnaud]

lol

16:51:47 [rhiaro]

Your intense productivity is inspiring

16:52:01 [rhiaro]

I watch mailing lists with awe

16:52:09 [Arnaud]

I agree it's great

16:52:29 [Arnaud]

my only concern is that you expect everyone else to have as much time to dedicate to this

16:52:41 [Arnaud]

I hope you realize that it's not going to be the case

16:52:51 [rhiaro]

And as soon as I stop with having an actual job and go back to PhD I hope to be able to contribute a fraction as much

16:53:02 [rhiaro]

(2.5 weeks!)

16:53:11 [dromasca]

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16:53:21 [Arnaud]

I don't mean to discourage you, by any means, but know that for most people this is just one of the many things they work on and we can only expect so much from them

16:53:54 [elf-pavlik]

Arnaud, I should calibrate my expectations to capacity of everyone else very soon ...

16:53:58 [tantek]

elf-pavlik: what's your personal site?

16:54:17 [elf-pavlik]

http://wwelves.org/perpetual-tripper

16:54:51 [akuckartz]

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16:55:17 [elf-pavlik]

server got offline yesterday thoug :( -- you can try it locally from https://github.com/elf-pavlik/webprofiled

16:55:48 [tantek]

oh dear - yeah was just trying http://wwelves.org/ and not getting any response

16:56:36 [elf-pavlik]

i need to contact friends from https://as250.net/ again about fixing it!

16:57:02 [akuckartz_]

akuckartz_ has joined #social

16:57:18 [tantek]

is that your hosting company?

16:57:22 [Zakim]

T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has now started

16:57:29 [Zakim]

+??P2

16:57:39 [elf-pavlik]

Zakim, who's on the call?

16:57:39 [Zakim]

On the phone I see ??P2

16:57:50 [elf-pavlik]

Zakim, P2 is me

16:57:50 [Zakim]

sorry, elf-pavlik, I do not recognize a party named 'P2'

16:57:57 [elf-pavlik]

Zakim, ??P2 is me

16:57:57 [Zakim]

+elf-pavlik; got it

16:58:03 [elf-pavlik]

Zakim, who's on the call?

16:58:03 [Zakim]

On the phone I see elf-pavlik

16:58:16 [Zakim]

+ +972.3.645.aaaa

16:58:31 [dromasca]

Zakim, aaaa is me

16:58:31 [Zakim]

+dromasca; got it

16:58:54 [Arnaud]

trackbot, start meeting

16:58:56 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs 411

16:58:58 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be SOCL

16:58:58 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes

16:58:59 [trackbot]

Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference

16:58:59 [trackbot]

Date: 16 September 2014

16:59:25 [bblfish]

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17:00:01 [elf-pavlik]

Zakim, who's on the call?

17:00:01 [Zakim]

I notice T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has restarted

17:00:02 [Zakim]

On the phone I see elf-pavlik, dromasca, +1.503.342.aabb, Arnaud

17:00:19 [aaronpk_]

aaronpk_ has joined #social

17:00:29 [Zakim]

+ +1.559.707.aacc

17:00:32 [aaronpk_]

Zakim, aabb is aaronpk

17:00:32 [Zakim]

+aaronpk; got it

17:00:33 [jtauber]

jtauber has joined #social

17:01:44 [dskiba]

dskiba has joined #social

17:02:37 [markus]

zakim, what's the code

17:02:37 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'what's the code', markus

17:02:42 [markus]

zakim, code?

17:02:42 [Zakim]

the conference code is 7625 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), markus

17:03:02 [Arnaud]

zakim, who's on the phone?

17:03:02 [Zakim]

On the phone I see elf-pavlik, dromasca, aaronpk, Arnaud, +1.559.707.aacc

17:03:05 [Arnaud]

chair: Arnaud

17:03:15 [Arnaud]

agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-09-16

17:03:18 [Zakim]

+??P10

17:03:28 [Zakim]

+??P9

17:03:30 [Zakim]

+Sandro

17:03:52 [barnabywalters]

I just joined

17:03:55 [Zakim]

+ +1.412.370.aadd

17:03:58 [Zakim]

+ +1.303.204.aaee

17:04:01 [Zakim]

+??P15

17:04:10 [Arnaud]

zakim, aacc is jasnell

17:04:10 [Zakim]

+jasnell; got it

17:04:13 [wilkie]

Zakim, aadd is me

17:04:13 [Zakim]

+wilkie; got it

17:04:15 [Zakim]

-??P15

17:04:17 [dskiba]

zakim, aaee is me

17:04:17 [Zakim]

+dskiba; got it

17:04:19 [akuckartz_]

hi

17:04:22 [hhalpin]

hhalpin has joined #social

17:04:23 [Zakim]

+deiu

17:04:39 [hhalpin]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

17:04:39 [Zakim]

On the phone I see elf-pavlik (muted), dromasca, aaronpk, Arnaud, jasnell, ??P10, ??P9, Sandro, wilkie, dskiba, deiu (muted)

17:04:46 [Arnaud]

zakim, who's making noise?

17:04:49 [hhalpin]

Apologies, wil have to be in IRC rather than phone.

17:04:56 [Zakim]

Arnaud, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 11 (28%), jasnell (5%), ??P10 (95%)

17:04:59 [Zakim]

+??P18

17:05:00 [hhalpin]

having a separate meeting at same time.

17:05:02 [aaronpk_]

You've got to be kidding. Who plugged in a modem to the call?

17:05:03 [sandro]

zakim, mute ??P10

17:05:03 [Zakim]

??P10 should now be muted

17:05:07 [barnabywalters]

wow such noises

17:05:18 [hhalpin]

Zakim, mute ??P18

17:05:18 [Zakim]

??P18 should now be muted

17:05:22 [Shane]

That may have been me, sorry

17:05:26 [hhalpin]

Zakim, unmute ??P18

17:05:26 [Zakim]

??P18 should no longer be muted

17:05:52 [bblfish_]

bblfish_ has joined #social

17:05:59 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

17:05:59 [barnabywalters]

huh it might have been me somehow

17:06:05 [Shane]

Zakim, P18 is me

17:06:05 [Zakim]

sorry, Shane, I do not recognize a party named 'P18'

17:06:10 [Shane]

Zakim, ?P18 is me

17:06:10 [Zakim]

sorry, Shane, I do not recognize a party named '?P18'

17:06:14 [jtauber]

zakim, IPcaller is jtauber

17:06:14 [Zakim]

+jtauber; got it

17:06:18 [Shane]

Zakim, ??P18 is me

17:06:18 [Zakim]

+Shane; got it

17:06:35 [Arnaud]

zakim, who is on the call?

17:06:35 [Zakim]

On the phone I see elf-pavlik (muted), dromasca, aaronpk, Arnaud, jasnell, ??P10 (muted), ??P9, Sandro, wilkie, dskiba, deiu (muted), Shane, jtauber

17:06:46 [Shane]

I will not be able to use microphone but have managed to get onto the call to listen

17:07:26 [akuckartz_]

can anybody hear me

17:07:26 [akuckartz_]

?

17:07:30 [Shane]

akuckartz_: No

17:07:31 [elf-pavlik]

http://www.w3.org/2006/tools/wiki/Zakim_Tips

17:07:35 [bblfish__]

bblfish__ has joined #social

17:08:05 [barnabywalters]

P9 is me

17:08:17 [akuckartz_]

then P10 seems to be me...

17:08:18 [barnabywalters]

Zakim, ??P9 is me

17:08:18 [Zakim]

+barnabywalters; got it

17:08:28 [barnabywalters]

the 41# tip is handy

17:08:32 [elf-pavlik]

Zakim, who's on the call?

17:08:32 [Zakim]

On the phone I see elf-pavlik (muted), dromasca, aaronpk, Arnaud, jasnell, ??P10 (muted), barnabywalters, Sandro, wilkie, dskiba, deiu (muted), Shane, jtauber

17:08:39 [Zakim]

+??P15

17:08:43 [markus]

zakim, ??P15 is me

17:08:43 [Zakim]

+markus; got it

17:08:50 [Arnaud]

Zakim, ??P10 is akuckartz_

17:08:50 [Zakim]

+akuckartz_; got it

17:09:16 [akuckartz_]

I seem to be muted but I can try to scribe

17:09:43 [akuckartz_]

yes, but I am muted

17:09:45 [aaronpk]

aaronpk has joined #social

17:10:03 [akuckartz_]

Ok, I will try

17:10:08 [Arnaud]

scribe: akuckartz_

17:10:19 [deiu]

scribenick: akuckartz_

17:10:26 [Shane]

I tend to have SIP drop out 30 mins in, but just requires reconnecting

17:11:07 [akuckartz_]

searching for the tpics

17:11:16 [Arnaud]

topic: Approval of Minutes of 9 September 2014 Teleconf

17:11:16 [hhalpin]

https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-09-16

17:11:24 [Arnaud]

https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-09-09-minutes

17:11:29 [hhalpin]

https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-09-09-minutes

17:11:48 [elf-pavlik]

i made one small edit to minutes today: https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?title=Socialwg/2014-09-09-minutes&diff=prev&oldid=76918

17:12:23 [hhalpin]

agenda+ TPAC

17:12:27 [hhalpin]

agenda+ Use-cases

17:12:28 [Zakim]

+??P20

17:12:30 [Zakim]

-markus

17:12:32 [hhalpin]

agenda+ Social Syntax

17:12:37 [hhalpin]

agenda+ AcivityStreams 2.0

17:12:41 [hhalpin]

agenda+ AOB

17:13:34 [akuckartz_]

zakim, agenda

17:13:34 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'agenda', akuckartz_

17:13:51 [Arnaud]

topic: Tracking of Actions and Issues

17:13:51 [akuckartz_]

Difficult without beeing able to speak...

17:14:10 [Arnaud]

https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Scribes

17:14:43 [akuckartz_]

action 1 closed.

17:14:43 [trackbot]

Error finding '1'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Social/track/users>.

17:15:03 [akuckartz_]

close action 1

17:15:53 [elf-pavlik]

https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-09-16#Social_data_syntax

17:16:00 [Zakim]

+ +26226234aaff

17:16:05 [akuckartz_]

next action will be closed by end of week.

17:16:47 [akuckartz_]

close action 3.

17:17:15 [akuckartz_]

zakim, next agendum

17:17:15 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "TPAC" taken up [from hhalpin]

17:17:16 [tiborKatelbach]

tiborKatelbach has joined #social

17:18:02 [akuckartz_]

Reminder: Registration required to participate in TPAC

17:18:17 [elf-pavlik]

https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-10-27

17:18:19 [elf-pavlik]

https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-10-28

17:18:46 [elf-pavlik]

q+

17:19:03 [akuckartz_]

See https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-09-16#TPAC for details

17:20:20 [hhalpin]

Note if you reigster quickly you get a discount on price! Register by Oct 1st - 75 USD vs. 150 USD I think..

17:20:32 [akuckartz_]

Members are asked to provide input for agenda.

17:20:57 [Shane]

I've added myself as a remote (depending on times, I'm UK based)

17:20:58 [Zakim]

+??P22

17:21:01 [elf-pavlik]

https://www.w3.org/wiki/Talk:Socialwg/2014-10-27

17:21:06 [bret]

i just joined the call

17:21:11 [Arnaud]

q?

17:21:17 [tantek]

I propose we use at least 50% of the time of the socialwg TPAC f2f for Barcamp-style sessions.

17:21:33 [Arnaud]

ack ??P9

17:21:37 [Arnaud]

ack elf-pavlik

17:22:48 [akuckartz_]

For participants see https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-10-27

17:23:00 [bret]

Zakim, +??P22 is bret

17:23:00 [Zakim]

sorry, bret, I do not recognize a party named '+??P22'

17:23:09 [bret]

Zakim, ??P22 is bret

17:23:11 [Zakim]

+bret; got it

17:23:43 [akuckartz_]

zakim, next agendum

17:23:43 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "Use-cases" taken up [from hhalpin]

17:25:53 [akuckartz_]

We need to finish the list of use-cases at some point. F2F should be used to finish this.

17:25:55 [tiborKatelbach]

Zakim, ??P9 is tiborKatelbach

17:25:55 [Zakim]

I already had ??P9 as barnabywalters, tiborKatelbach

17:26:08 [barnabywalters]

huh

17:26:12 [tiborKatelbach]

sorry

17:26:15 [barnabywalters]

I’m actually dropping out in a sec

17:26:23 [barnabywalters]

so you can have my ID :(

17:26:24 [barnabywalters]

:)

17:26:28 [Zakim]

-barnabywalters

17:26:29 [tantek]

I don't think " finish the list of use-cases" makes sense

17:26:32 [Loqi]

it'll be ok

17:26:37 [tantek]

I'd rather see the list of use-cases grow over time

17:26:38 [tiborKatelbach]

Zakim, ??P9 is tiborKatelbach

17:26:38 [Zakim]

sorry, tiborKatelbach, I do not recognize a party named '??P9'

17:26:56 [barnabywalters]

tiborKatelbach: dial 41# and see what Zakim says

17:27:06 [tiborKatelbach]

41#

17:27:16 [Shane]

I agree with tantek, we don't want to limit it too much but just make sure we are working within the scope of the charter

17:27:43 [wilkie]

tiborKatelbach: was that you that 41#?

17:27:48 [tiborKatelbach]

Zakim, aaff is tiborKatelbach

17:27:48 [Zakim]

+tiborKatelbach; got it

17:27:55 [tiborKatelbach]

yep

17:28:03 [Arnaud]

q?

17:28:09 [tiborKatelbach]

sorry

17:28:10 [Arnaud]

queue=

17:28:56 [elf-pavlik]

wiki down? http://isup.me/https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg

17:28:57 [elf-pavlik]

https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg#Use_Cases

17:28:58 [elf-pavlik]

q?

17:28:59 [elf-pavlik]

q+

17:29:07 [tiborKatelbach]

please repeat the type of use cases your looking for ?

17:29:17 [Arnaud]

ack elf-pavlik

17:29:50 [elf-pavlik]

I'll work in next days on https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Check-In_Use_Case

17:30:53 [akuckartz_]

I try

17:30:54 [tiborKatelbach]

q+

17:31:04 [Arnaud]

ack tiborKatelbach

17:31:25 [tantek]

elf-pavlik: before working on the use-case I'd suggest getting your site working!

17:32:19 [elf-pavlik]

tantek, of course but friends who host it need to fix their server, i'll sort it out in next days!

17:32:37 [akuckartz_]

Question discussed: Will we create a "final" use case document or one in parallel to the work of the WG?

17:32:56 [tantek]

akuckartz_: I don't think any such "final" document makes sense.

17:33:00 [tantek]

dated snapshots maybe

17:33:07 [tantek]

but we should assuming living use-cases documentation

17:34:02 [Zakim]

+??P9

17:34:04 [rhiaro]

+1 to living use case document

17:34:05 [akuckartz_]

Requirements will be based on the use-cases

17:34:30 [elf-pavlik]

q+

17:34:44 [akuckartz_]

Members invited to seriously look at the use cases

17:34:49 [Zakim]

-??P9

17:34:52 [rhiaro]

People find new crazy things to do with social technology all the time [citation needed]

17:34:53 [Shane]

Why is check-in a different page to the other use-cases?

17:35:27 [Zakim]

-Shane

17:35:29 [akuckartz_]

Who will take ownership of the use case document ? Should be more than one person.

17:35:32 [Arnaud]

ack elf-pavlik

17:35:56 [Zakim]

+??P9

17:36:04 [Shane]

Zakim, ??9 is me

17:36:04 [Zakim]

sorry, Shane, I do not recognize a party named '??9'

17:36:05 [wilkie]

with social systems, I believe you are as close to human creativity as possible, so you have to be flexible and use-cases will be surprising and develop as you go

17:36:11 [Shane]

Zakim, ??P9 is me

17:36:11 [Zakim]

+Shane; got it

17:36:51 [tantek]

why does there need to be "ownership" of the use case document?

17:37:01 [elf-pavlik]

I suggested that for group collaboration use cases we can just make sure that we cover our needs for W3 groups

17:37:04 [rhiaro]

+1 wilkie

17:37:28 [Arnaud]

q?

17:38:04 [bblfish]

bblfish has joined #social

17:38:06 [akuckartz_]

zakim, next agendum

17:38:06 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "Social Syntax" taken up [from hhalpin]

17:38:44 [elf-pavlik]

i didn't create it :) i think james?

17:39:01 [akuckartz_]

This page was created: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_syntax

17:39:07 [Zakim]

+??P15

17:39:12 [markus]

zakim, ??p15 is me

17:39:12 [Zakim]

+markus; got it

17:39:34 [elf-pavlik]

q+

17:40:46 [bblfish_]

bblfish_ has joined #social

17:41:22 [tiborKatelbach]

q+

17:41:26 [elf-pavlik]

akuckartz_, did you capture it?

17:41:29 [akuckartz_]

Members should look at that page. Google invited to join this WG.

17:41:31 [Arnaud]

ack elf-pavlik

17:41:59 [akuckartz_]

especially regarding schema.org

17:42:17 [Arnaud]

ack tiborKatelbach

17:42:41 [Zakim]

-oshepherd

17:42:42 [sandro]

elf-pavlik, and everyone else, feel free to scribe your own words

17:42:56 [Zakim]

+??P18

17:43:06 [Shane]

I do like the idea of being interoperable across syntaxes if possible

17:43:33 [cmhobbs_]

cmhobbs_ has joined #social

17:43:39 [akuckartz_]

Question discussed: do we need to select one vocabulary or can we be more open ?

17:44:39 [elf-pavlik]

q+

17:44:48 [tantek]

we should document existing vocabularies *in use* with *actual examples* of URLs of usage

17:44:53 [akuckartz_]

Minimum vocabulary subset should be specified

17:44:56 [markus]

do we have a list of what is currently missing in schema.org?

17:45:08 [tantek]

why frame it as "missing in schema.org"?

17:45:22 [tantek]

why use schema.org as a starting point at all?

17:45:36 [markus]

because someone just said some things are missing in schema.org

17:45:37 [tantek]

it's shown to be badly overdesigned, e.g. /Volcano has faxmachine

17:45:42 [markus]

I'm wondering what those things are

17:45:54 [elf-pavlik]

tantek, strong incentive for people to use it - Google, Yahoo, Bing, Yandex supporting it

17:45:57 [tantek]

what's missing in schema.org is any sense of minimal design

17:46:06 [wilkie]

I agree with having a standard and reasonable subset and then allow graceful extensibility of vocab.

17:46:15 [tantek]

elf-pavlik: they claim to use it - actual support is unknown

17:46:19 [wilkie]

a minimal base that is

17:46:25 [elf-pavlik]

q?

17:46:27 [tantek]

schema.org is a horrible starting point

17:46:48 [tantek]

elf-pavlik: could you document actual evidence of Google, Yahoo, Bing, Yandex supporting it beyond validation tools?

17:46:55 [tantek]

which objects? which properties?

17:47:11 [tantek]

not only do I think that's futile, but a waste of time

17:47:20 [markus]

why tantek? bad design? too complex? ...?

17:47:24 [tantek]

both

17:47:27 [sandro]

tantek, http://blog.sgo.to/2014/09/schemaorg-actions-implementations.html

17:47:31 [akuckartz_]

There is no consensus regarding schema.org

17:47:32 [Arnaud]

ack elf-pavlik

17:47:34 [elf-pavlik]

https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Collection_Comparison

17:47:37 [tantek]

and frankly, out of order for this working group, since we're working on *openly developed* vocabularies

17:47:48 [tantek]

and schema has been developed by an oligopoly at best

17:48:33 [oshepherd]

q+

17:48:37 [markus]

what hasn't? :-)

17:49:00 [tantek]

markus - nearly everything else

17:49:15 [tantek]

e.g. vCard, hCard, h-card etc.

17:49:27 [tantek]

everything in microformats, ActivityStreams etc. was developed fully openly

17:49:31 [tiborKatelbach]

as James said it is important to try to pull someone from schema.org into our discussions

17:49:37 [elf-pavlik]

Arnaud, -- suggests to fucs on what we need and then based on that look at vocabularies

17:49:39 [Arnaud]

ack oshepherd

17:49:52 [tantek]

so no, I see no reason to include any use of schema unless there is a member here who feels they need it

17:49:59 [akuckartz_]

We first need to identify and define the information we want to exchange. Then we have a basis for the vocabularies.

17:50:16 [tantek]

how about documenting the information we *are* exchanging?

17:50:20 [elf-pavlik]

oshepherd, can you add you point to https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Collection_Comparison

17:50:21 [tantek]

as opposed to *want to*

17:50:33 [elf-pavlik]

+1 tantek

17:50:38 [tantek]

I'd rather make this *real world usage* based

17:50:39 [bret]

sandro thats a nice list, but its search centric. any use in a social applicaiton?

17:50:46 [tantek]

rather than *arm chair wishlist* based

17:50:47 [rhiaro]

I've looked at schema.org wrt connecting humans with creative media they publish in the web (which is in scope for social I reckon) and found it hit and miss, generally not a lot of use

17:50:59 [bret]

i guess the email thing is social, but limited to gmail

17:51:10 [tantek]

right

17:51:19 [wilkie]

microformats and activitystreams > schema.org for everything tantek has said about openness in particular

17:51:24 [markus]

+1000 to start with use cases and requirements

17:51:33 [elf-pavlik]

Arnaud, -- emphasizes importance of gathering USE CASES and agreeing on them

17:51:47 [wilkie]

real world usage and use cases should drive the minimal base vocab/actions

17:51:54 [sandro]

bret, I have no idea, sorry. I just was handed that list this morning, when I asked someone at Google about this work.

17:52:06 [bret]

ill keep my eyes out too

17:52:18 [akuckartz_]

zakim, next agendum

17:52:18 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "AcivityStreams 2.0" taken up [from hhalpin]

17:52:50 [elf-pavlik]

Zakim, who's on the call?

17:52:50 [Zakim]

On the phone I see elf-pavlik (muted), dromasca, aaronpk, Arnaud, jasnell, akuckartz_ (muted), Sandro, wilkie, dskiba, deiu (muted), jtauber, tiborKatelbach, bret, Shane, markus,

17:52:53 [Zakim]

... oshepherd

17:53:09 [tantek]

I'm going to point out that "search" and "email" and "app linking" are not among the use-cases / scope that we're looking at in this WG - so EVERY example shown in http://blog.sgo.to/2014/09/schemaorg-actions-implementations.html is out of scope for this working group

17:53:13 [bret]

ack! sorry

17:53:14 [tantek]

NONE of those are social

17:53:27 [akuckartz_]

Where do we stand? Are there any issues?

17:53:44 [aaronpk]

the only example there that's social is the RSVP example in gmail

17:53:54 [tantek]

so yes, there is a thing called schema, created by an oligopoly, used for use-cases *specific* to those in the oligopoly, and *none* of it related to anything social (person to person)

17:54:28 [bret]

Zakim, mute me

17:54:28 [Zakim]

bret should now be muted

17:54:41 [tantek]

I'm going to keep pushing back on this - I see no actual *social* use of schema on the *web* from any of the examples given.

17:55:00 [akuckartz_]

Members asked to look at the document and provide feedback. Use GitHub issue tracker.

17:55:01 [tantek]

gmail-specific proprietary extensions does not count as social web, sorry to say.

17:55:18 [Arnaud]

q?

17:55:27 [wilkie]

+1 tantek

17:55:33 [akuckartz_]

zakim, next agendum

17:55:33 [Zakim]

agendum 5. "AOB" taken up [from hhalpin]

17:55:38 [aaronpk]

+1 tantek

17:55:43 [tantek]

also as noted in the comments on that page: "confusing that the screenshots don't match the examples"

17:55:53 [Shane]

I have to head out now, sorry. I agree with the points tantek is making.

17:55:56 [tantek]

so basically, I don't believe that "schemaorg-actions-implementations" page at all

17:56:24 [Zakim]

-Shane

17:56:34 [tiborKatelbach]

+1 tantek

17:56:46 [wilkie]

schema, from that list especially, seems to not have social-web implementations but rather corporate opportunistic uses that will likely be thrown away

17:57:01 [tantek]

we can safely ignore schema

17:57:24 [tantek]

for purposes of this wg

17:57:25 [akuckartz_]

We should clarifiy the role of WG, IG and CG. Volunteer?

17:57:30 [tiborKatelbach]

all this should be shared outside of this group, unless I missed them out there

17:57:41 [tantek]

akuckartz_: please rephrase that as a question about the charter

17:57:46 [tantek]

s/charter/charters

17:57:47 [Loqi]

tantek meant to say: akuckartz_: please rephrase that as a question about the charters

17:57:53 [tantek]

of WG and IG

17:58:03 [tantek]

roles are defined in the charters

17:58:03 [elf-pavlik]

Arnaud: community groups - free form, can produce documents but binding only to members of group

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17:58:22 [akuckartz_]

Rephrased as suggested by elf-pavlk and others

17:59:01 [elf-pavlik]

Arnaud: working groups - in charge of producing actual specifications and have set time to deliver

17:59:24 [elf-pavlik]

Arnaud: overlap in WG and IG and we rely on it

17:59:38 [Zakim]

-dromasca

17:59:41 [elf-pavlik]

overlap in membership

18:00:17 [Zakim]

-dskiba

18:00:31 [akuckartz_]

WG is limited in time, Chairs of WG and IG are in contact

18:00:42 [Zakim]

-jasnell

18:00:47 [Zakim]

-jtauber

18:01:06 [akuckartz_]

I will do the rest tomorrow!

18:01:15 [Zakim]

-aaronpk

18:01:15 [akuckartz_]

bye

18:01:15 [tantek]

ACTION Arnaud: Add "What is the role of Social WG, IG and CG?" as an FAQ to https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg#FAQ

18:01:15 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-4 - Add "what is the role of social wg, ig and cg?" as an faq to https://www.w3.org/wiki/socialwg#faq [on Arnaud Le Hors - due 2014-09-23].

18:01:16 [Zakim]

-Sandro

18:01:16 [Zakim]

-deiu

18:01:18 [Zakim]

-elf-pavlik

18:01:20 [Zakim]

-Arnaud

18:01:22 [Zakim]

-wilkie

18:01:22 [Zakim]

-markus

18:01:24 [Zakim]

-tiborKatelbach

18:01:25 [Zakim]

-bret

18:01:30 [Zakim]

-oshepherd

18:02:20 [Zakim]

-akuckartz_

18:02:21 [Zakim]

T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has ended

18:02:21 [Zakim]

Attendees were elf-pavlik, +972.3.645.aaaa, dromasca, +1.503.342.aabb, Arnaud, +1.559.707.aacc, aaronpk, Sandro, +1.412.370.aadd, +1.303.204.aaee, jasnell, wilkie, dskiba, deiu,

18:02:21 [Zakim]

... jtauber, Shane, barnabywalters, markus, akuckartz_, oshepherd, +26226234aaff, bret, tiborKatelbach

18:02:30 [sandro]

http://blog.sgo.to/2014/09/schemaorg-actions-implementations.html

18:02:34 [bret]

sorry about the noise

18:02:48 [elf-pavlik]

sandro, what about this post?

18:03:12 [tiborKatelbach]

tantek I think you should write and share your thoughts about comparing the 2 vocabularies , it could be usefull for newcommers out there

18:03:34 [tantek]

tiborKatelbach: there are too many secondary vocabularies to bother with

18:03:53 [tantek]

schema is a non-openly developed bloated vocabulary used for very specific big-company vertical uses

18:04:14 [tiborKatelbach]

at least to put away the ones from an oligopoly

18:04:31 [elf-pavlik]

tantek, i don't disagree but at the same time has some advantages - eg. learning materials https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB94dIamAQc

18:04:48 [tantek]

I'm going to ignore it until someone in this WG actually decides to publish it on their own site (in all seriousness, not just as a test)

18:05:01 [tiborKatelbach]

I'm undersstanding this now but was looking for such info a while back and found nothing of the kind

18:05:12 [tantek]

tiborKatelbach: what info are you looking for?

18:05:19 [bblfish_]

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18:05:40 [elf-pavlik]

tantek, my website ATM uses mostly schema.org + others when needed https://github.com/elf-pavlik/webprofiled/blob/master/test/fixtures/perpetual-tripper/index.json

18:05:54 [tiborKatelbach]

before starting working I was looking around

18:06:01 [elf-pavlik]

i know, i know i need to ask friendly hosts to fix their service ASAP ;)

18:06:05 [aaronpk]

elf-pavlik: your home page is a JSON file?

18:06:17 [rhiaro]

Not looked into it deeply, but would publish schema.org for seo purposes.. That's all though

18:06:20 [tiborKatelbach]

for critics about schema being oushed by the big players

18:06:27 [Arnaud]

trackbot, end meeting

18:06:27 [trackbot]

Zakim, list attendees

18:06:27 [Zakim]

sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is

18:06:30 [tantek]

elf-pavlik: for testing or ?

18:06:31 [tiborKatelbach]

I wanted to know why I shouldn't use it

18:06:35 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

18:06:35 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/16-social-minutes.html trackbot

18:06:36 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, bye

18:06:38 [tantek]

what actual use-case are you solving with it?

18:06:53 [Arnaud]

rrsagent, make log public

18:07:58 [elf-pavlik]

i would prefer use other web search engines but for now most people uses big ones, so them understanding data i publish seems to me an advantage

18:08:11 [tiborKatelbach]

I build for example a event ticketing system , Json-ld based on schema.org

18:08:16 [tantek]

elf-pavlik: those search engines also all support open microformats

18:08:24 [tantek]

so there is no need to do the extra work for schema

18:08:29 [Arnaud]

tantek: for the record, I don't think it's very polite to give people actions without their consent :)

18:08:41 [tiborKatelbach]

what ever I'm building from now on, I'm structuring based on a common vocab

18:08:49 [tantek]

Arnaud: I gave you a clerical action - you already answered the question in the minutes :)

18:08:57 [tiborKatelbach]

which I thought was schema untill I joined SWG

18:08:58 [elf-pavlik]

or stuff like: Getting your events into the Knowledge Graph http://youtu.be/XXw8g-FbemI

18:08:58 [tantek]

I figured since you were chair that wasn't too much of an ask :)

18:09:35 [tantek]

so a lot of this is "how to get your stuff into Google's proprietary aggregation"

18:09:39 [tantek]

none of it is social

18:09:48 [aaronpk]

SEO is not a social use case

18:10:01 [elf-pavlik]

+1 Arnaud (on not assigning tasks to others!)

18:10:03 [tantek]

right, we should document that explicitly as a non-use-case for the WG

18:10:40 [Arnaud]

tiborKatelbach: are you officially a member of the WG?

18:10:55 [elf-pavlik]

tantek, how about self hosted community hubs aggregating events

18:11:13 [tantek]

elf-pavlik: URL?

18:11:22 [elf-pavlik]

and why to force people to - you either show up in indie hub OR google/yahoo/bing/yandex results

18:11:27 [tiborKatelbach]

only requested for the moment

18:11:42 [tantek]

elf-pavlik: not true - as google/yahoo/bing/yandex results support indexing microformats as well

18:11:56 [elf-pavlik]

next 3 days we will work on http://directory.open-steps.org/

18:12:13 [Arnaud]

you requested an Invited Expert status?

18:12:20 [tiborKatelbach]

I made the request but got no responses

18:12:27 [elf-pavlik]

we already have prove of concept where people can publish their profiles for examle using http://remotestorage.io instead of filling up google form

18:12:44 [Arnaud]

yeah, something went wrong with the Invited Expert application system

18:12:45 [tiborKatelbach]

I follow the form

18:13:04 [tiborKatelbach]

oh ok

18:13:11 [Arnaud]

are you affiliated with a W3C member organization?

18:13:12 [aaronpk]

http://calagator.org/ is a community event aggregator, all events are marked up with the h-event microformats2 vocab

18:13:13 [tiborKatelbach]

should I try again ?

18:13:21 [tiborKatelbach]

yes

18:13:29 [tantek]

tiborKatelbach: I see your entry here https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg#Applied_for_Membership

18:13:35 [Arnaud]

which organization?

18:13:37 [bret]

aaronpk, do the #social loqi logs have a homescreen shortcut?

18:13:46 [elf-pavlik]

tantek, can you maybe add links to support of microformats by 'big players' to https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Vocabulary_Comparison

18:13:57 [tiborKatelbach]

NGO Open Atlas, or company O.R.D

18:14:02 [aaronpk]

bret: yes http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/today?bookmark

18:14:08 [tantek]

elf-pavlik: see http://microformats.org/wiki/search

18:14:32 [elf-pavlik]

tantek, thx!

18:14:57 [Arnaud]

wait, open atla isn't a member of w3c, is it?

18:15:39 [tiborKatelbach]

we are a small NGO

18:15:43 [elf-pavlik]

tiborKatelbach, http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Member/List

18:16:28 [tiborKatelbach]

I'm registered personnaly and represent them , I didn't think it was necessary , but I can go ahead if yo like

18:16:46 [Arnaud]

the W3C is a member organization

18:16:59 [Arnaud]

organizations that want to participate have to become a member

18:17:10 [Arnaud]

and pay the associated membership due

18:17:48 [tiborKatelbach]

it's non profit and doesnt have much funds for the moment

18:18:00 [Arnaud]

as an effort to be as inclusive as possible the w3c also allows limited participation of invited experts

18:18:04 [tiborKatelbach]

when it will , we'll suport

18:18:20 [Arnaud]

for the latter, you need to apply - which I guess you did

18:18:35 [tiborKatelbach]

yes I did

18:18:44 [Arnaud]

invited expert status is granted at the discretion of the chairs and w3c staff

18:18:47 [tiborKatelbach]

and I'm registered in several groups

18:19:01 [Arnaud]

well, you're not registered on this group :)

18:19:31 [tiborKatelbach]

does that mean I wont be ?

18:19:50 [tiborKatelbach]

I don't undestand ?

18:20:02 [Arnaud]

what do you not understand? I'm happy to explain

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18:20:53 [deiu]

tiborKatelbach: you can only participate in this group if you are either a member of an affiliated organization (with W3C membership) or you have been approved as an invited expert

18:20:53 [tiborKatelbach]

as I received no response I don't know the status of the registration , will it be discussed ?

18:21:23 [Arnaud]

ok, I understand

18:21:27 [Arnaud]

your application is pending

18:21:38 [tiborKatelbach]

ok that's fine

18:21:42 [tiborKatelbach]

thanks

18:22:07 [Arnaud]

as I said, it's a bit messy unfortunately because we have had problems with the invited expert application system

18:22:18 [Arnaud]

normally the chairs are notified automatically, we haven't been

18:22:49 [tiborKatelbach]

so now you've found my lost request , right ?

18:22:56 [Arnaud]

yes :)

18:23:01 [tiborKatelbach]

:)

18:23:12 [tiborKatelbach]

that's the begining of the good news

18:23:17 [Arnaud]

ok, gotta go

18:23:18 [Arnaud]

ttyl

18:24:31 [tantek]

good night!

18:25:00 [tiborKatelbach]

bye everyone !

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18:30:36 [hhalpin]

RRSAgent, generate minutes

18:30:36 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/16-social-minutes.html hhalpin

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