IRC log of html-a11y on 2014-09-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to
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14:53:09 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:53:11 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 2119
14:53:11 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 53 minutes ago
14:53:12 [trackbot]
Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:53:12 [trackbot]
Date: 04 September 2014
14:53:22 [janina]
14:53:37 [janina]
zakim, clear agenda
14:53:37 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
14:53:44 [janina]
Meeting: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference
14:53:44 [janina]
Chair: Janina
14:53:44 [janina]
agenda+ Identify Scribe
14:53:47 [janina]
agenda+ TPAC 2014
14:53:50 [janina]
agenda+ Longdesc CR Progress
14:53:52 [janina]
agenda+ Access Key/Command
14:53:55 [janina]
agenda+ Web Payments
14:53:56 [MarkS_]
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14:53:57 [janina]
agenda+ Enumerating Event Handlers on Elements
14:54:00 [janina]
agenda+ Captcha
14:54:02 [janina]
agenda+ Other Business
14:54:05 [janina]
agenda+ Identify Chair and Scribe for the next TF teleconference
14:54:07 [Zakim]
WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has now started
14:54:08 [janina]
agenda+ be done
14:54:14 [Zakim]
14:54:22 [paulc]
zakim, [Microsoft] is me
14:54:22 [Zakim]
+paulc; got it
14:55:11 [Zakim]
14:55:20 [janina]
zakim, ??P3 is me
14:55:20 [Zakim]
+janina; got it
14:55:27 [janina]
zakim, who's on the phone?
14:55:27 [Zakim]
On the phone I see paulc, janina
14:55:39 [Zakim]
14:57:12 [janina]
zakim, next item
14:57:12 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "TPAC 2014" taken up [from janina]
14:57:20 [janina]
zakim, take up item 1
14:57:20 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Identify Scribe" taken up [from janina]
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15:00:17 [MarkS]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:00:17 [Zakim]
On the phone I see paulc, janina, Liam, MarkS
15:00:58 [Zakim]
15:01:57 [Zakim]
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15:02:22 [ShaneM]
zakim, what is the code?
15:02:23 [Zakim]
the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, ShaneM
15:02:29 [Zakim]
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15:02:38 [ShaneM]
zakim, Shane_McCarron is ShaneM
15:02:38 [Zakim]
+ShaneM; got it
15:02:42 [Zakim]
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15:03:33 [Zakim]
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15:04:28 [David]
Scribe: David
15:04:38 [Zakim]
15:04:39 [Zakim]
15:04:44 [David]
zakim, next item
15:04:44 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "TPAC 2014" taken up [from janina]
15:04:55 [Zakim]
15:06:01 [David]
Need PF conversation with HTML PF considering topics along with media sub team
15:06:22 [David]
PF nervous about DRM, we're not finding anything but still nervous...
15:06:52 [David]
want to identify where we can try testing
15:07:17 [David]
s/DRM/Encrypted media
15:07:39 [MarkS]
s/Encrypted Media/EME/G
15:07:57 [Zakim]
15:08:11 [Zakim]
15:08:20 [David]
RS: key things happening SVG... it's becoming more in sync with HTML... SVG might subclass HTML element, came from accessibility conversations
15:08:57 [Zakim]
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15:09:13 [janina]
zakim, who's on the phone?
15:09:13 [Zakim]
On the phone I see paulc, janina, Liam, MarkS, David_MacDonald, ShaneM, Plh, Judy, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Sam, John_Foliot, Cynthia_Shelly
15:09:24 [Zakim]
15:09:31 [David]
RS: working on interoperability spec, both referencing core specifications, same in core ARIA for base semantics
15:09:39 [Zakim]
15:10:10 [David]
need to pull name computation from core spec, for things like alt vs title amd desc in SVG,
15:10:38 [Zakim]
15:10:43 [David]
RS: Will pull out q section for name computation and SVG and HTML will call thqt.
15:10:52 [chaals]
zakim, [ip is me
15:10:52 [Zakim]
+chaals; got it
15:11:46 [David]
RS: working on taxonomy for grqphics, like parts of a chart, lines, axis, etc... applicable to Javascript and other languages... lot's of interlock. would be good to have a meeting with all 3 groups
15:12:46 [David]
RS: Digital publication,s we can pull this into text books...
15:12:50 [paulc]
15:13:11 [David]
15:13:44 [David]
JS: eoub may introduce extensions to aria, to coordinate...
15:13:59 [David]
15:15:02 [David]
JS: might be on toac agenda also
15:15:06 [chaals]
15:15:39 [janina]
ack p
15:15:43 [David]
JS: event enumerations on event handlers on list
15:15:55 [paulc]
SVG, PF and HTML WGs all meet on Thu and Fri Oct 30-31
15:16:07 [paulc]
15:16:19 [David]
Paul: SVG, HTML and PF meeting on same two days at tpac
15:17:07 [chaals]
RESOLUTION: At TPAC it would be useful to talk about event handler enumeration in DOM
15:17:28 [chaals]
RESOLUTION: At TPAC it would be good to talk about taxonomy for graphics
15:17:55 [chaals]
RESOLUTION: At TPAC it would be good to talk about roles and validation for Digital Publications
15:18:42 [chaals]
RESOLUTION: At TPAC it would be good to talk about name computation and the like
15:18:46 [David]
1) event enumerations on event handlers on DOM 2) SV Taxomony 3) dPub role 4) HTML Next 5) interoperability of mappings accross svg html aria
15:19:02 [David]
15:19:24 [David]
6) eme review
15:19:43 [David]
15:20:06 [David]
JF: EME will probably be short...
15:20:17 [chaals]
zakim, who is here?
15:20:17 [Zakim]
On the phone I see paulc, janina, Liam, MarkS, David_MacDonald, ShaneM, Plh, Judy, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Sam, John_Foliot, Cynthia_Shelly, chaals
15:20:20 [Zakim]
On IRC I see chaals, richardschwerdtfeger, David, Judy, plh, MarkS, ShaneM, joanie, cabanier, janina, hober, sivoais, IanPouncey, newtron_, paulc, rubys, RRSAgent, liam, Zakim,
15:20:20 [Zakim]
... trackbot
15:20:22 [David]
Paul: I'll prep for EME
15:20:39 [chaals]
15:20:52 [chaals]
15:21:03 [David]
15:21:21 [David]
JS: we'll take a look at that
15:21:28 [David]
zakim, next
15:21:28 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'next', David
15:21:38 [David]
zakim, next item
15:21:38 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Longdesc CR Progress" taken up [from janina]
15:21:41 [janina]
15:21:42 [chaals]
[Along the lines of discussing alt calculation - with WCAG, as well as HTML/SVG - the question of whether a longdesc is appropriate on an image with a null alt]
15:21:44 [Zakim]
15:22:40 [JF_]
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15:23:09 [David]
Candidate response, ORCA implementation in Lenox environment... they provided feedback.... 5 items... we accepted 1 and made none substantial editorial
15:23:43 [David]
JS: are we ok with the changes?
15:23:55 [Zakim]
15:24:06 [chaals]
zakim, [ip is me
15:24:06 [Zakim]
+chaals; got it
15:24:07 [David]
s/Candidate/JS: Candidate
15:25:33 [David]
CM: Their concerned regarding a reference... I made a fix and will see how its accepted
15:25:43 [David]
JS: have copy for us?
15:25:49 [chaals]
proposed text: "Note that while in some cases this will allow user agents to present the description, there will be cases where user agents can not or do not restrict the information presented to the container element."
15:25:59 [richardschwerdtfeger]
15:26:00 [David]
proposed text: "Note that while in some cases this will allow user agents to present the description, there will be cases where user agents can not or do not restrict the information presented to the container element.
15:27:09 [David]
JS: yeah let's keep it simple as this, don't want to give best pracice in spec
15:27:51 [David]
JS: proposed dispositions ok? before CFC
15:29:03 [David]
JS: James C. feels we addressed a secondary issue, not the main issue... from ORCA
15:29:19 [David]
JS: others?
15:29:51 [Judy]
15:29:58 [David]
JS: CR worked well... we got good feedback from the implementors
15:31:02 [David]
JB: this group went into CR with fairly good implementation prior...
15:31:39 [David]
JS: don't here any recs to clarify our disposition, or more about James comments
15:31:44 [janina]
15:31:49 [janina]
ack ju
15:31:56 [David]
CM: some people on list said they like the additions
15:32:04 [David]
MS: made it clearer
15:32:46 [David]
JS: would like to move to TR, wkll involved director looking at formal obj.
15:33:00 [David]
15:33:32 [David]
JS: we feel the archived record is sufficient, no new issues in formal Obj. should we move forward
15:35:38 [David]
JS: what is between us... little dospositions on fragment IDs... don't think we need to respond to formal Obj... and 3rd. have an online pointer to adjusted spec. as per decisions
15:35:49 [David]
zakim, next item
15:35:49 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Access Key/Command" taken up [from janina]
15:36:17 [David]
JS: access key
15:37:15 [David]
CM: old folks here, remember accesskey... useful idea, but not well used... currently JS hijacks keyboard, causing unexpected results
15:37:33 [Zakim]
15:37:44 [David]
CM: twitter on my mac... keyboard shortcut on system
15:39:08 [David]
zakim, take up item 6
15:39:08 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "Enumerating Event Handlers on Elements" taken up [from janina]
15:39:26 [Zakim]
15:39:47 [David]
zakim, take up item 4
15:39:47 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Access Key/Command" taken up [from janina]
15:40:45 [David]
Accesskey was designed to do what JS does these days... html advice bad for browsers
15:41:37 [JF_]
conflict resolution? discoverability? internationalization?
15:42:00 [David]
CM: No browser should be able to highjack things I've got using on my system
15:42:05 [JF_]
15:42:54 [David]
CM: my russian keyboard... latin script useless for access keys
15:43:23 [janina]
15:43:37 [chaals]
ack jf
15:43:43 [David]
CM: it was put back in HTML5 but we have to be clear that what makes it work is that user has control of which key to use
15:44:06 [David]
JF: problames woth Accesskey. conflict resolution? discoverability? internationalization?
15:44:24 [chaals]
q+ to say the browser is responsible for discovery (since it may have re-mapped the key)
15:44:39 [David]
15:44:53 [David]
JF: can conflick with AT
15:45:06 [chaals]
15:45:08 [David]
15:45:27 [David]
JF: lot's of problems, devil is in implementation
15:45:56 [David]
Cynthia: there are NO keys are left, when considering all broawers.
15:46:29 [janina]
15:46:35 [janina]
ack cy
15:46:42 [David]
CS: the word web app might take over a browser feature ... which is good reason
15:46:53 [janina]
ack ch
15:46:53 [Zakim]
chaals, you wanted to say the browser is responsible for discovery (since it may have re-mapped the key)
15:47:02 [David]
CS: are you aware of Keyboard event spec?
15:47:41 [Zakim]
15:48:15 [David]
CM: Keyboard event interferes with your system in uexpected ways, access keys is easy to do,
15:50:20 [David]
CM: discover ability critical, responsibility of browser, it may choose to remap for language... cyrillic etc...
15:50:23 [janina]
15:50:48 [David]
CM: OPERA had one key to find all the accesskeys for a website,
15:51:14 [janina]
I think handlers will be put over
15:51:28 [David]
CM: it put in notification into the chrome... Accesskeys available... and let keys be reassigned
15:51:40 [janina]
15:53:10 [David]
CM: regarding speciallized cases ctl-p to print... not related to accesskeys, ... can rrdirect standard function, which is an ongoing discussion
15:53:20 [janina]
ack l
15:53:20 [Zakim]
liam, you wanted to mention indirection by function-name
15:53:47 [JF_]
15:53:52 [chaals]
s/rrdirect/use web activites/wishes (né Web Intents) to redirect/
15:54:03 [janina]
ack j
15:55:01 [Judy]
15:55:23 [ShaneM]
it was an element
15:55:25 [chaals]
q+ to talk about access
15:55:33 [liam]
[access key at rong level of abstraction, should be using abstract names of functionalities associatd with keys]
15:55:43 [David]
JF: tag along on LIAM... way back in the day... <access> element or attribute, left open... I think it's a good directions
15:55:47 [janina]
ack ch
15:55:47 [Zakim]
chaals, you wanted to talk about access
15:56:11 [David]
Liam: [access key at rong level of abstraction, should be using abstract names of functionalities associatd with keys]
15:56:46 [liam]
s/ rong/ wrong/
15:56:55 [janina]
15:57:30 [paulc]
(I have to depart to get ready for the HTML WG meeting)
15:57:44 [David]
CM: if you are writing a web page and have to come uo with a conceptual map it is more complex thqn just adding attribute to things thqt need to be shortcutted... easy to make a browser interface thqt could manage this
15:57:56 [Zakim]
15:58:30 [David]
CM: extend it to hold a word, ie for a voice rec... system
15:59:27 [Zakim]
15:59:27 [David]
JS: we're doing overview of items that we want to get into detail....
15:59:43 [David]
I'd like to take up a footnote idea
15:59:50 [Zakim]
15:59:52 [Zakim]
15:59:54 [Zakim]
15:59:56 [Zakim]
16:00:00 [David]
Zakim, list attendees
16:00:02 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been paulc, janina, Liam, MarkS, David_MacDonald, John_Foliot, ShaneM, Plh, Judy, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Sam, Cynthia_Shelly, [IPcaller], chaals
16:00:02 [Zakim]
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16:00:12 [David]
zakim, bye
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16:00:21 [David]
rrsagent, make log public
16:00:32 [David]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:00:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate David
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