15:26:28 RRSAgent has joined #dwbp 15:26:28 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-dwbp-irc 15:26:49 phila has changed the topic to: Vocabularies Call 4 Sept 2014 15:53:27 phila has joined #dwbp 15:58:31 zakim, this will be dwbp 15:58:31 ok, phila; I see DATA_DWBP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes 15:58:43 RRSAgent, make logs public 16:01:14 DATA_DWBP()12:00PM has now started 16:01:20 +ericstephan 16:01:29 ericstephan has joined #dwbp 16:01:58 +[IPcaller] 16:02:09 zakim, ipcaller is me 16:02:09 +phila; got it 16:03:51 BernadetteLoscio has joined #dwbp 16:04:55 MakxDekkers has joined #dwbp 16:04:59 +[IPcaller] 16:05:12 zakim, ipcaller is BernadetteLoscio 16:05:12 +BernadetteLoscio; got it 16:07:27 Tite Todesco 16:09:15 scribe: phila 16:09:27 ericstephan: this is open agenda 16:09:34 topic: open agenda 16:10:26 ericstephan: At the end of July a lot of our efforts were losing steam, everyone getting distracted. I think this month is the opp to regroup and figure out where we want to go by the time of the f2f meeting at TPAC 16:10:35 topic: preparation for F2F1 for data usage 16:11:09 ericstephan: If I'm speaking about things already agreed on, tell me, but I've gone through e-mails and got impressions so far 16:11:15 Revisiting the use cases for data usage - are they complete enough? https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Use_Cases 16:12:07 ericstephan: do we have enough in the UCR for the DUV? 16:12:17 ... or do we need more? 16:12:54 BernadetteLoscio: I don't think the Use cases are focussed on data usage. It's more about the publication side. Not about experiences of how the data was used 16:13:09 BernadetteLoscio: I don't know if we can extract what we need yet 16:13:51 ericstephan: It would be helpful for me ... there were several efforts to do this... but is it defined. And you were asking whether we have the use cases yet 16:13:56 ... we need that as a firm foundation 16:14:15 ericstephan: so I think we should tackle that first - identify the use cases and identifying what other UCs we might need 16:14:53 BernadetteLoscio: I think it would be interesting to have more user cases. Can we contact some people and find out what they'd like? People from government, hackathons etc. 16:15:47 phila: perhaps we could ask Steve and Yaso to go to other groups to help us develop more use cases from other partners. 16:16:34 phila: they could speak to people in the field to speak to communities they represent and get a status. 16:16:37 +Makx_Dekkers 16:16:43 BernadetteLoscio: do you think it wouold be good to have a template for the use cases? 16:17:44 ericstephan: So an action item is to send out a call for help. Yes, ask Steve and Yaso but we can ask others too. 16:18:59 action: ericstephan to write to Steve and seek help with developing use cases for data usage 16:19:00 Created ACTION-73 - Write to steve and seek help with developing use cases for data usage [on Eric Stephan - due 2014-09-11]. 16:19:19 action: Bernadette to write to Yaso to seek help with developing use cases for data usage 16:19:20 Created ACTION-74 - Write to yaso to seek help with developing use cases for data usage [on Bernadette Farias Loscio - due 2014-09-11]. 16:19:45 MakxDekkers: I have problems understanding exactly what we're trying to do here... we need to know who we need to get in touch with 16:20:15 ... for example, I have the people from listpoint.co.uk - they have usage profiles, but I don't have a good view of what the DUV is trying to achieve 16:20:21 ... we need to talk to people who need it 16:20:38 Charter reference: http://www.w3.org/2013/05/odbp-charter.html 16:20:48 Original proposed definition: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Data_Usage_Vocabulary_Definition 16:20:58 ericstephan: which brings us to the chicken and egg... one of the things we've done... in the original charter, we worked to come up with a data usage definition 16:21:03 Email thread: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dwbp-wg/2014Jul/0083.html 16:21:20 ... and then based on that proposed definition, I've not done anything with it since that thread 16:21:29 s/reference:/reference/ 16:21:42 ... it would be good to have a clear idea of what we mean by data usage 16:22:26 ... it seems that the original definition has been accepted, but limitations? That can get confusing and I suggets we strike that out 16:22:37 ... and focus on data processing, application usage, data connectivity 16:22:54 ... woiuld it be helpful in these efforts to be more clear on what we mean by DU? 16:23:42 BernadetteLoscio: Yes. We've discussed this before - it's not really clear to me whether we're talking about ... do we mean how data is combined? Will the description be in an application? Part of the dataset? 16:25:03 MakxDekkers: The problem that I see that I'm not sure that users of the data aren't in this group? How do we reach out to people who are waiting for us to do this? 16:25:27 BernadetteLoscio: We can think that usage can be part of the data description, it would produce an instance of that description 16:26:19 MakxDekkers: You're saying it's info about monitoring hte use of the data and keeping track of that 16:26:38 ... every time someone accesses the data, the DUV is used to record sometehing about that usage? 16:26:47 BernadetteLoscio: Sort of... 16:27:12 ericstephan: That sounds as like provenance? 16:27:45 MakxDekkers: no, this is monitoring. You may record who was asking for the data, you may want to record what they're using it for? 16:28:20 ericstephan: I could argue that Prov covers that. There are 3 perspectives. One is data oriented, one is interaction, another is process oriented 16:28:33 q+ 16:28:40 q- 16:29:48 phila: the danish mapping agency might be an example 16:30:17 BernadetteLoscio: we can do it in several ways, I'm going to combine it with... 16:31:22 phila: the politics and business of making the data available are not always aligned. someone in the management chain makes the decision to publish the data... (what we were thinking about in the charter). 16:31:48 phila: In 6 months time they manager needs to be able determine what people have done with the data. 16:32:31 phila: a way to encourage people to make data available on the web. Being able to find out that someone created something interesting with the data. 16:33:46 ericstephan: would you mind writing that up as a use case? 16:34:20 phila: will write this up in a use case 16:34:23 action: phil to write a use case that captures the thing about recognition of efforts made by data publishers 16:34:23 Created ACTION-75 - Write a use case that captures the thing about recognition of efforts made by data publishers [on Phil Archer - due 2014-09-11]. 16:34:31 http://appckan.com/ 16:35:03 BernadetteLoscio: we created a means for app developers to describe what they've done 16:35:04 bernadette: applications that use open data. 16:35:36 ... we created a repository of users of open data. We created a vocab that describes applications 16:36:22 BernadetteLoscio: The idea is that the application is described 16:36:37 ... the student wrote 30 pages on this, all in Portuguese 16:37:36 ... so I'll write something up in English and share it with the group 16:38:22 phila: what is the incentive for the application programmer to do this? e.g. making it more discoverable 16:39:15 phila: If it is seen as schema.org the reason why people markup pages with schema.org a couple of weeks ago, they now have their markup on 20% of their web pages. 16:40:29 ericstephan: This is helping to raise my understanding... and to your point Makx, Prov is more of a nuits and bolts thing, but it's not hte kind of detail that people are going to instantly get 16:40:43 ... this is more of a human interface 16:40:49 ... cf. a pure machine interface 16:41:52 phila: stroking the ego of the application developer and data publisher, showing how data was used by this particular person. 16:43:27 ericstephan: Let's keep iterating on this. I think some improtance concepts were caught here. 16:43:49 BernadetteLoscio: one more thing - do you think we should prepare a template for the use cases? 16:44:15 ... that might help people understand what we need from them 16:44:26 RRSAgent, draft minutes 16:44:26 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-dwbp-minutes.html phila 16:44:59 chair: Eric 16:45:14 -ericstephan 16:45:15 -phila 16:45:29 regrets: Antoine 16:45:31 -Makx_Dekkers 16:45:38 -BernadetteLoscio 16:45:40 DATA_DWBP()12:00PM has ended 16:45:40 Attendees were ericstephan, phila, BernadetteLoscio, Makx_Dekkers 16:45:42 thank you phila for scribing and your invaluable input! 16:45:56 :-) 16:46:01 RRSAgent, generate minutes 16:46:01 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-dwbp-minutes.html phila 16:46:13 can I send you a paper we have sent to the web of things? 16:46:20 It might be of interest to you. 16:46:57 don't know if it will get accepted but it shows where we are heading. 16:53:15 phila has changed the topic to: WG Meeting 5 September 2014 Canceled. See you next week 17:02:41 zakim, bye 17:02:41 Zakim has left #dwbp 17:02:45 RRSAgent, bye 17:02:45 I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-dwbp-actions.rdf : 17:02:45 ACTION: ericstephan to write to Steve and seek help with developing use cases for data usage [1] 17:02:45 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-dwbp-irc#T16-18-59 17:02:45 ACTION: Bernadette to write to Yaso to seek help with developing use cases for data usage [2] 17:02:45 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-dwbp-irc#T16-19-19 17:02:45 ACTION: phil to write a use case that captures the thing about recognition of efforts made by data publishers [3] 17:02:45 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-dwbp-irc#T16-34-23