IRC log of wai-wcag on 2014-09-02
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:37:23 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
- 14:37:23 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/09/02-wai-wcag-irc
- 14:37:25 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 14:37:27 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
- 14:37:28 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
- 14:37:28 [trackbot]
- Date: 02 September 2014
- 14:37:28 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 23 minutes
- 14:37:32 [Joshue]
- Chair: Joshue
- 14:37:37 [Joshue]
- zakim, agenda?
- 14:37:37 [Zakim]
- I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
- 14:37:38 [Zakim]
- 5. Review open issues and actions http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/open [from Joshue108]
- 14:40:09 [Joshue]
- zakim, clear agenda
- 14:40:09 [Zakim]
- agenda cleared
- 14:45:53 [Kathy]
- Kathy has joined #wai-wcag
- 14:50:00 [Joshue]
- agenda+ September 2nd Survey - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Sept2nd_2014/
- 14:50:15 [Joshue]
- agenda+ Final publication review and approval.
- 14:50:22 [Joshue]
- agenda+ Update on Accessibility Support Database Update from Shadi
- 14:50:31 [Joshue]
- agedna+ Continue Institutional Memory Collection from 26th August 2014 - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/IMCAugust2014/
- 14:50:47 [Joshue]
- agenda+ Review open issues and actions http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/open
- 14:57:08 [shadi]
- shadi has joined #wai-wcag
- 14:57:21 [shadi]
- zakim, code?
- 14:57:21 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 9224 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), shadi
- 14:57:30 [shadi]
- zakim, call shadi-617
- 14:57:30 [Zakim]
- ok, shadi; the call is being made
- 14:57:31 [Zakim]
- WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has now started
- 14:57:32 [Zakim]
- +Shadi
- 14:58:19 [bbailey]
- bbailey has joined #wai-wcag
- 14:58:23 [Zakim]
- +Bruce_Bailey
- 14:59:02 [Zakim]
- +Kathy_Wahlbin
- 14:59:34 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 14:59:47 [Joshue]
- zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue
- 14:59:47 [Zakim]
- +Joshue; got it
- 15:00:19 [Zakim]
- +David_MacDonald
- 15:00:25 [Mike_Elledge]
- Mike_Elledge has joined #wai-wcag
- 15:00:38 [Brent]
- Brent has joined #wai-wcag
- 15:00:39 [David]
- David has joined #wai-wcag
- 15:00:41 [Zakim]
- +Brent_Shiver
- 15:00:46 [jon_avila]
- jon_avila has joined #wai-wcag
- 15:00:53 [Zakim]
- +Mike_Elledge
- 15:00:54 [bbailey]
- zakim, bbailey is bruce
- 15:00:54 [Zakim]
- sorry, bbailey, I do not recognize a party named 'bbailey'
- 15:01:05 [bbailey]
- zakim, bruce is bbailey
- 15:01:05 [Zakim]
- +bbailey; got it
- 15:01:28 [AWK]
- AWK has joined #wai-wcag
- 15:01:37 [Zakim]
- +jon_avila
- 15:01:39 [Zakim]
- +AWK
- 15:02:21 [Joshue]
- Scribe list: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List
- 15:02:22 [Kenny]
- Kenny has joined #wai-wcag
- 15:02:26 [AWK]
- Zakim, who is on the phone?
- 15:02:26 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Shadi, bbailey, Kathy_Wahlbin, Joshue, David_MacDonald, Brent_Shiver, Mike_Elledge, jon_avila, AWK
- 15:03:02 [Joshue]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List
- 15:03:17 [shadi]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:03:17 [Zakim]
- Shadi should now be muted
- 15:03:25 [Kathy]
- scribe: Kathy
- 15:03:38 [agarrison]
- agarrison has joined #wai-wcag
- 15:03:54 [Zakim]
- +Kenny
- 15:04:14 [Joshue]
- zakim, next item
- 15:04:14 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "September 2nd Survey - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Sept2nd_2014/" taken up [from Joshue]
- 15:04:34 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 15:04:35 [agarrison]
- zakim, ipcaller is alistair
- 15:04:35 [Zakim]
- +alistair; got it
- 15:04:44 [Zakim]
- -alistair
- 15:04:46 [bbailey]
- https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Sept2nd_2014/results
- 15:04:47 [Loretta]
- Loretta has joined #wai-wcag
- 15:04:48 [Kathy]
- TOPIC: Publication of editors draft
- 15:05:09 [agarrison]
- zakim, ipcaller is alistair
- 15:05:09 [Zakim]
- sorry, agarrison, I do not recognize a party named 'ipcaller'
- 15:05:10 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 15:05:15 [agarrison]
- zakim, ipcaller is alistair
- 15:05:15 [Zakim]
- +alistair; got it
- 15:05:44 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 15:05:56 [Loretta]
- zakim, ipcaller is Loretta
- 15:05:56 [Zakim]
- +Loretta; got it
- 15:06:23 [marcjohlic]
- marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
- 15:06:28 [Zakim]
- +cstrobbe
- 15:06:42 [Kathy]
- Josh - review of the commnents; jon had comment about h2
- 15:06:48 [Zakim]
- +Marc_Johlic
- 15:06:52 [cstrobbe]
- cstrobbe has joined #wai-wcag
- 15:07:10 [AWK]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2014/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20140902/H2.html
- 15:07:25 [AWK]
- Text: Check that the a element contains an img element that has a null alt attribute, that is alt="", or text that supplements the link text and describes the image
- 15:07:28 [Kathy]
- Jon - text was confusing in the text for the tests
- 15:07:39 [cstrobbe]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:07:39 [Zakim]
- cstrobbe should now be muted
- 15:08:41 [Kathy]
- Jon - is the text that supplements the link text may be confusing
- 15:09:04 [AWK]
- q+
- 15:10:02 [Kathy]
- AWK - I think we did clarify it but the language may be mixed up
- 15:10:58 [Kathy]
- AWK - we should have the check that the image has null attribute or that the alt text is supplemental. Either one needs to be true
- 15:11:05 [David]
- +1
- 15:11:36 [Kathy]
- Josh - needs to be cleaned up
- 15:11:48 [Loretta]
- +1 David. Let's just fix it.
- 15:11:56 [Kathy]
- Jon - some text changes will clarify it
- 15:11:56 [AWK]
- Suggestion. remove #1 and keep 2 and change to: Check that the a element contains an img element that has either a null alt attribute value or a value that supplements the link text and describes the image
- 15:12:04 [AWK]
- q+
- 15:12:41 [Kathy]
- AWK - suggested text to clarify #1 and #2
- 15:12:42 [Joshue]
- ack awk
- 15:13:04 [Kathy]
- Josh - any comments on the suggested text
- 15:13:19 [Kathy]
- David - suggestion for an update to the text
- 15:13:40 [David]
- Suggestion. remove #1 and keep 2 and change to: Check that the a element contains an img element that has either a null alt attribute value or a alt text value that supplements the link text and describes the image
- 15:14:04 [Kathy]
- Josh - any objections to the suggested text
- 15:14:42 [Kathy]
- AWK - need to have consistent terms
- 15:14:58 [Kathy]
- Jon - fine with either term
- 15:15:19 [Kathy]
- Josh - prefers Andrew's version
- 15:15:29 [Kathy]
- David - no strong preference
- 15:15:36 [Kathy]
- +1
- 15:15:43 [jon_avila]
- +1
- 15:15:45 [Mike_Elledge]
- +1
- 15:15:46 [David]
- +1
- 15:15:49 [Loretta]
- +1
- 15:15:49 [agarrison]
- Andrews +1
- 15:15:51 [bbailey]
- +1 to AWK edit
- 15:15:52 [Joshue]
- +1
- 15:16:02 [Kathy]
- Josh - any other comments?
- 15:16:22 [Kathy]
- Josh - we will use Andrew's suggested text
- 15:16:25 [Joshue]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2014/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20140902/H2.html
- 15:17:09 [Kathy]
- RESOLUTION: publish as amended. Andrew's updated text will be used for H2.
- 15:18:06 [Kathy]
- Josh - the change will be integrated in the coming days
- 15:18:34 [Kathy]
- RESOLTION: the editor's draft will be published
- 15:18:35 [Loretta]
- :-)
- 15:18:38 [Mike_Elledge]
- :^)
- 15:18:51 [bbailey]
- :)
- 15:19:48 [Kathy]
- Josh: both shadi and Alistair have items for the agenda
- 15:19:54 [Joshue]
- zakim, agenda?
- 15:19:54 [Zakim]
- I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
- 15:19:55 [Zakim]
- 1. September 2nd Survey - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Sept2nd_2014/ [from Joshue]
- 15:19:55 [Zakim]
- 2. Final publication review and approval. [from Joshue]
- 15:19:55 [Zakim]
- 3. Update on Accessibility Support Database Update from Shadi [from Joshue]
- 15:20:08 [Zakim]
- +??P20
- 15:20:13 [AWK]
- XML documents updated so ready for publication (including diff markup, Michael)
- 15:20:36 [Joshue]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Creating_a_conforming_alternate_version_for_a_web_page_designed_with_progressive_enhancement
- 15:20:40 [bbailey]
- https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Sept2nd_2014/results
- 15:20:42 [Kathy]
- TOPIC: Final review draft of the technique
- 15:20:56 [Kathy]
- "Creating a conforming alternate version for a web page designed with progressive enhancement"
- 15:21:09 [agarrison]
- http://www.edgeatlanta.com/news/national
- 15:21:21 [Kathy]
- Alistair - looking for an example
- 15:22:26 [Kathy]
- Alistair - example provides different view for low bandwidth
- 15:22:42 [AWK]
- q+
- 15:22:47 [Joshue]
- ack awk
- 15:22:47 [Kathy]
- Alistair - this would be the conforming version
- 15:23:32 [Kathy]
- AWK - Live example is not necessary for approving it but it would be good to have it. Have one that is simple and easy to use.
- 15:23:48 [Kathy]
- Alistair - can put together an example
- 15:24:22 [Kathy]
- Josh- any objections to accepting this
- 15:24:38 [Joshue]
- q?
- 15:25:14 [Kathy]
- David - this is the dumbed down HTML version that provides sites from providing alternative version without having to fix the other one
- 15:25:36 [Kathy]
- RESOLUTIONL: accepted
- 15:25:53 [Kathy]
- Josh - please put in some live examples that can be included
- 15:25:53 [Joshue]
- zakim, queue?
- 15:25:53 [Zakim]
- I see no one on the speaker queue
- 15:26:06 [Joshue]
- zakim, agenda?
- 15:26:06 [Zakim]
- I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
- 15:26:07 [Zakim]
- 1. September 2nd Survey - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Sept2nd_2014/ [from Joshue]
- 15:26:07 [Zakim]
- 2. Final publication review and approval. [from Joshue]
- 15:26:07 [Zakim]
- 3. Update on Accessibility Support Database Update from Shadi [from Joshue]
- 15:26:33 [Kathy]
- AWK - we had a discussion on captioning, the check says to check for a conforming version - this is an example of where we have done this
- 15:28:20 [Joshue]
- https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140306/2963
- 15:28:36 [Kathy]
- TOPIC: Response to comment 2963: F89 confusing
- 15:28:42 [Zakim]
- +James_Nurthen
- 15:28:52 [jamesn]
- jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
- 15:28:52 [Kathy]
- Josh - any objecting to accepting the response?
- 15:29:00 [Kathy]
- RESOLUTION: accepted
- 15:29:01 [jamesn]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 15:29:01 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/02-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
- 15:29:10 [Kathy]
- TOPIC: Update on Accessibility Support Database Update from Shadi
- 15:29:12 [shadi]
- ack me
- 15:29:19 [shadi]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/accessibility-support/dev/
- 15:29:20 [Joshue]
- zakim, take up item 3
- 15:29:20 [Zakim]
- agendum 3. "Update on Accessibility Support Database Update from Shadi" taken up [from Joshue]
- 15:29:36 [Joshue]
- B-)
- 15:29:38 [shadi]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/accessibility-support/dev/
- 15:29:47 [Kathy]
- Shadi - this is an update on the work done on the accessibility support database
- 15:29:52 [Joshue]
- q?
- 15:30:06 [Kathy]
- Shadi - this has the latest updates
- 15:30:25 [Kathy]
- Shadi - we have been working on the workflow
- 15:30:41 [Joshue]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:30:41 [Zakim]
- Joshue should now be muted
- 15:30:41 [Kathy]
- Shadi - when the test cases are ready, they can be uploaded
- 15:30:54 [Kathy]
- Shadi - everyone has access as contributor role
- 15:31:09 [Kathy]
- Shadi - you have the power to delete test cases so be careful
- 15:31:51 [Kathy]
- Shadi - when you get to the page, you can browse and run test cases. You can also submit test case using your W3C account
- 15:32:42 [Kathy]
- Shadi - can see published WCAG techniques and editor draft techniques
- 15:33:17 [Kathy]
- Shadi - there are two labels: unconfirmed and accepted
- 15:33:32 [Kathy]
- Shadi - can add code and files to the test case
- 15:34:52 [Kathy]
- Shadi - form has not yet been approved
- 15:35:06 [Kathy]
- Shadi - when you go back to the homepage, browse test results
- 15:35:28 [Kathy]
- Shadi - can filter to show unconfirmed test cases
- 15:35:36 [Joshue]
- q?
- 15:36:11 [Kathy]
- Shadi - that is the main change. Still creating functions to add/delete to maintain the database
- 15:36:27 [Kathy]
- AWK - where is the unconfirmed test case
- 15:36:43 [Kathy]
- Shadi - all of them are unconfirmed
- 15:37:21 [Kathy]
- Shadi - are making changes to make it easier
- 15:37:37 [Kathy]
- James - I see version numbers but not point releases for the AT
- 15:38:09 [Kathy]
- Shadi - we are storing the different versions, so we can roll back results
- 15:38:48 [Kathy]
- James - the exact version is important to know if it is supported
- 15:39:20 [agarrison]
- q+
- 15:39:28 [Joshue]
- ack me
- 15:39:49 [Kathy]
- Shadi - the versions are dynamic from the database so if the information is provided it will be included
- 15:39:52 [David]
- q+
- 15:40:38 [Kathy]
- Shadi - can look at this in the environment and people can enter in it
- 15:40:44 [AWK]
- I do see Windows 6.1 in the OS list
- 15:40:54 [Kathy]
- James - not requiring people to enter in point release values
- 15:41:19 [Kathy]
- Shadi - This is automatically being filled in based on what the browser is sending over
- 15:41:36 [Kathy]
- James - browsers are sending more information
- 15:41:43 [Kathy]
- Shadi - then this is a bug
- 15:42:01 [Kathy]
- Shadi - the challenge is the granualarity
- 15:42:29 [Joshue]
- ack agar
- 15:42:30 [Kathy]
- Shadi - we are thinking about this
- 15:42:34 [Joshue]
- q+
- 15:42:49 [Kathy]
- Alistair - the versions need to be stored when the test is done
- 15:43:23 [Kathy]
- Alistair - the test cases look manual, are any automated
- 15:43:41 [Kathy]
- Alistair - who and when do you envision users to use the tool?
- 15:43:41 [Joshue]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:43:41 [Zakim]
- Joshue should now be muted
- 15:44:41 [Kathy]
- Shadi - test cases are not easily automated; volunteers are needed
- 15:45:11 [Kathy]
- Alistair - concentrate on the ones that need to be manually checked
- 15:45:26 [Kathy]
- Shadi - this was designed for test cases for manual review
- 15:45:57 [Kathy]
- Shadi - this is an attempt to do it using crowd sourcing
- 15:46:16 [Kathy]
- Shadi - this could come from the working group as techniques are developed
- 15:46:45 [Kathy]
- Shadi - test cases can be entered directly into the tool. This may also encourage people to review
- 15:46:55 [Joshue]
- ack me
- 15:47:00 [Joshue]
- ack david
- 15:47:14 [Kathy]
- David - found a couple of bugs
- 15:47:24 [Kathy]
- Shadi - there is the GitHub list
- 15:48:10 [Kathy]
- Shadi - does not include G techniques
- 15:48:24 [Kathy]
- David - there are HTML techniques in G
- 15:48:27 [jamesn]
- q to ask if you want comments on the accessibility of the system?
- 15:48:39 [Joshue]
- ack Josh
- 15:49:19 [Kathy]
- Josh - visual look and feel; structure looks good but the color contrast is poor
- 15:49:37 [Kathy]
- Shadi - we are happy to take suggestions
- 15:50:27 [Kathy]
- Josh - some simple changes could make a difference
- 15:50:36 [Kathy]
- Shadi - can log this into GitHub
- 15:50:53 [Kathy]
- https://github.com/w3c/wai-axsdb-web
- 15:51:12 [Kathy]
- https://github.com/w3c/wai-axsdb-web/issues
- 15:51:44 [Joshue]
- q?
- 15:52:03 [Kathy]
- James - what is the framework used?
- 15:52:44 [Kathy]
- Shadi - some user testing has been done
- 15:53:06 [agarrison]
- q+
- 15:53:17 [Kathy]
- Shadi - let us know about issues
- 15:53:45 [Kathy]
- James - the logout button should be a button not a link
- 15:53:47 [Joshue]
- ack agar
- 15:53:54 [Kathy]
- q+
- 15:54:05 [Joshue]
- q?
- 15:54:17 [Kathy]
- James - if it looks like a button visually then it shoud be a button
- 15:54:43 [Kathy]
- Shadi - will look into this
- 15:55:21 [Kathy]
- Alistair - failure conditions
- 15:55:44 [Kathy]
- Shadi - we did not pull them in since the usage would be limited
- 15:56:00 [Kathy]
- Shadi - is there a failure that needs a test case
- 15:56:05 [Joshue]
- q?
- 15:56:13 [Joshue]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:56:13 [Zakim]
- Joshue should now be muted
- 15:56:20 [Kathy]
- Shadi - this is primarily for techniques
- 15:56:53 [Zakim]
- -Brent_Shiver
- 15:57:28 [Kathy]
- q-
- 15:57:28 [Joshue]
- ack Kathy
- 15:57:47 [Joshue]
- KW: Is mobile includeded?
- 15:57:57 [Joshue]
- s/includeded/included
- 15:58:12 [Kathy]
- Shadi - this will work for mobile
- 15:58:37 [Joshue]
- KW: THe Mobile TF is writing techniques and testing, so we could use this right?
- 15:58:49 [Joshue]
- SAZ: Yes, that is my hope. Its buggy but workable
- 15:59:03 [Joshue]
- SAZ: The WG should start testing
- 15:59:26 [Joshue]
- SAZ: As you develop techs, the test cases could be written directly with this tool
- 15:59:41 [Joshue]
- SAZ: This will also give the public the chance to contribute.
- 15:59:55 [Joshue]
- KW: The Icon fonts need aria-hidden
- 16:00:03 [Joshue]
- SAZ: Ok
- 16:00:09 [shadi]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/accessibility-support/dev/#/results-technique.html/H4
- 16:00:40 [Joshue]
- SAZ: Overview of approaches to linking to techs etc
- 16:00:48 [Joshue]
- <discusses design features>
- 16:00:56 [Joshue]
- ack me
- 16:01:16 [Kathy]
- Josh - would you like us to review; where can we help
- 16:01:22 [jamesn]
- q to note that the fonts are (I think) in the private use area of unicode so shouldn't need aria-hidden
- 16:01:25 [jamesn]
- ack me
- 16:02:11 [Kathy]
- Shadi - the big question is: Is this tool useful?
- 16:02:28 [Kathy]
- Shadi - can be added to the accessibility support area of the techniques
- 16:02:47 [Kathy]
- Shadi - we can check in a few weeks
- 16:03:17 [Kathy]
- Josh - the more information about the system is null link
- 16:03:34 [AWK]
- Q+ to ask what the situation is regarding future development - resources available?
- 16:04:00 [Kathy]
- Shadi - there will be more information and guides
- 16:04:17 [Kathy]
- Josh - when will this be up and running
- 16:04:24 [Kathy]
- Shadi - 2-3 weeks
- 16:04:50 [Kathy]
- James - the fonts may not need aria-hidden
- 16:04:53 [agarrison]
- Back button doesn't seem to work on http://www.w3.org/WAI/accessibility-support/dev/#/log-in.html
- 16:04:54 [Joshue]
- ack AWK
- 16:04:54 [Zakim]
- AWK, you wanted to ask what the situation is regarding future development - resources available?
- 16:05:18 [Kathy]
- AWK - future development: what resources are available
- 16:05:27 [Kathy]
- Shadi - essentially none
- 16:05:43 [Kathy]
- Shadi - bugs will be fixed
- 16:06:21 [Kathy]
- Shadi - major features will not be added at this time
- 16:06:50 [Kathy]
- AWK - this helps to manage our expectation
- 16:07:14 [Kathy]
- Josh - good job, thanks for the update
- 16:07:36 [Joshue]
- q?
- 16:07:44 [Kathy]
- Shadi - look forward to feedback
- 16:08:24 [Joshue]
- agenda+ Institutional Memory Collection for 26th August 2014
- 16:08:25 [Kathy]
- Shadi - names are logged in the test cases
- 16:08:34 [Joshue]
- zakim, agenda?
- 16:08:34 [Zakim]
- I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
- 16:08:35 [Zakim]
- 1. September 2nd Survey - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Sept2nd_2014/ [from Joshue]
- 16:08:35 [Zakim]
- 2. Final publication review and approval. [from Joshue]
- 16:08:35 [Zakim]
- 3. Update on Accessibility Support Database Update from Shadi [from Joshue]
- 16:08:35 [Zakim]
- 5. Institutional Memory Collection for 26th August 2014 [from Joshue]
- 16:09:02 [shadi]
- zakim, mute me
- 16:09:02 [Zakim]
- Shadi should now be muted
- 16:09:12 [Joshue]
- zakim, take up item 5
- 16:09:12 [Zakim]
- agendum 5. "Institutional Memory Collection for 26th August 2014" taken up [from Joshue]
- 16:09:13 [Joshue]
- https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/IMCAugust2014/results
- 16:10:16 [Kathy]
- TOPIC: Institutional Memory
- 16:10:29 [Kathy]
- Josh - always good to talk through these
- 16:10:56 [Loretta]
- I thought we were supposed to edit the wiki itself.
- 16:10:57 [Kathy]
- Josh - AWK added information to the WIKI
- 16:11:07 [Kathy]
- Loretta - I did too
- 16:11:40 [Kathy]
- Loretta - the last paragraph was what I added
- 16:11:54 [Kathy]
- Josh - debate orginally about what was sufficient for this
- 16:12:13 [Kathy]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG20/Institutional_Memory/SC_2.4.1
- 16:12:14 [Joshue]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG20/Institutional_Memory/SC_2.4.1
- 16:12:21 [David]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Main_Page
- 16:12:32 [Kathy]
- David - is there a link on the main page to this
- 16:12:36 [Kathy]
- Josh - no
- 16:13:39 [Joshue]
- zakim, who is beeping?
- 16:13:39 [Zakim]
- I don't understand your question, Joshue.
- 16:13:42 [Joshue]
- lol
- 16:13:43 [Kathy]
- AWK - always some amount of debate about the number of links
- 16:14:52 [David]
- I added link to main page https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Main_Page
- 16:14:58 [Kathy]
- AWK - there is a perception that this is only for screen readers users since the keyboard support is not default in the browsers
- 16:15:19 [Joshue]
- zakim, q?
- 16:15:19 [Zakim]
- I see no one on the speaker queue
- 16:15:20 [jon_avila]
- Some people question whether this is relevant to mobile touchscreen devices.
- 16:15:28 [Kathy]
- AWK - gets into the WCAG / UUAG
- 16:16:23 [Kathy]
- Loretta - a lot discussion about efficient keyboard support / navigation
- 16:16:42 [Kathy]
- Josh - now there are other things that we can use to meet this
- 16:17:00 [Kathy]
- Loretta - there is usability issues for keyboard users that we did not fit into the technique
- 16:17:12 [Kathy]
- Josh - maybe something for later
- 16:17:24 [jon_avila]
- There is also applicability for software -- e.g. equivalent to moving between panes of software applications.
- 16:17:41 [Kathy]
- Bruce - remembers that this being added from 508 .22(o)
- 16:18:58 [Kathy]
- Josh - is there other information that should be added to the WIKI
- 16:19:12 [Kathy]
- Josh - look at the second one on page titles
- 16:19:13 [Joshue]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG20/Institutional_Memory/SC_2.4.2
- 16:20:17 [jon_avila]
- I asked it.
- 16:20:41 [Kathy]
- AWK: jon responded to question on the list about iframes, which made me remember this
- 16:21:04 [Kathy]
- AWK: iframe is embedded into the page, this does not apply
- 16:21:39 [Kathy]
- AWK: the question was about iframe embedded into the page, what do you do for title
- 16:21:45 [Joshue]
- q?
- 16:21:59 [jon_avila]
- I found that JAWS 15 and IE will announce the embedded page title over the title attribute on an iFrame if one is present.
- 16:22:16 [David]
- +1
- 16:22:31 [Kathy]
- AWK: frame does need a title - covered under other success criteria
- 16:23:18 [jon_avila]
- could you meet 2.4.2 with an embedded HTML page title if it was accessibility supported and no iframe title.?
- 16:23:48 [Kathy]
- Loretta - oriented around navigation orientation issue
- 16:24:06 [Kathy]
- Loretta - also added for cognitive impairements
- 16:24:38 [Kathy]
- Josh - reading Loretta's comment - page titles do not need to be unique
- 16:24:47 [Zakim]
- -David_MacDonald
- 16:25:23 [Kathy]
- Bruce - contemporary browser behavior makes this requirement less relevant; harder see the page title
- 16:25:53 [Kathy]
- Bruce - this is more difficult requirement for other types of formats
- 16:26:12 [AWK]
- q+ to ask bruce what formats doc title is hard for
- 16:26:27 [jon_avila]
- This topic raises questions around mobile app titles where space is limited and hybrid or native apps may not show titles. Applying WCAG to non-web ICT indicates page titles are equivalent to app titles.
- 16:27:11 [Kathy]
- Josh - this is the first thing screen reader reads
- 16:28:49 [Kathy]
- AWK - trend is to show smaller pieces of the title
- 16:29:19 [AWK]
- ack me
- 16:29:19 [Zakim]
- AWK, you wanted to ask bruce what formats doc title is hard for
- 16:29:20 [jon_avila]
- q+
- 16:29:20 [Joshue]
- KW: Mobile also has shorter titles
- 16:29:22 [Joshue]
- ack awk
- 16:29:26 [jon_avila]
- q-
- 16:29:44 [Kathy]
- Bruce - filename gets confused with document title
- 16:29:45 [jon_avila]
- In Safari on iOS I see iOS displaying the url and not displaying the page title.
- 16:30:05 [Joshue]
- ack jon
- 16:30:24 [Kathy]
- Jon - on iPhone Safari shows the URL and there is no page title
- 16:30:55 [Kathy]
- James - can see the page title in the tab view
- 16:31:18 [Kathy]
- Jon - both have consequences to mobile apps
- 16:31:41 [Kathy]
- Jon- do all mobile app pages need a title
- 16:31:46 [Kathy]
- Josh - out of time
- 16:32:16 [Mike_Elledge]
- bye!
- 16:32:19 [Zakim]
- -Mike_Elledge
- 16:32:20 [Kathy]
- zakim, list attendees
- 16:32:20 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been Shadi, Bruce_Bailey, Kathy_Wahlbin, Joshue, David_MacDonald, Brent_Shiver, Mike_Elledge, bbailey, jon_avila, AWK, Kenny, alistair, Loretta,
- 16:32:23 [Zakim]
- ... cstrobbe, Marc_Johlic, Michael_Cooper, James_Nurthen
- 16:32:23 [Zakim]
- -James_Nurthen
- 16:32:23 [Zakim]
- -jon_avila
- 16:32:27 [Zakim]
- -bbailey
- 16:32:28 [Zakim]
- -Shadi
- 16:32:29 [Zakim]
- -Joshue
- 16:32:31 [Zakim]
- -Loretta
- 16:32:32 [Kathy]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:32:32 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/02-wai-wcag-minutes.html Kathy
- 16:32:35 [Zakim]
- -Kenny
- 16:32:40 [Kathy]
- rrsagent, make logs public
- 16:32:43 [Zakim]
- -alistair
- 16:32:47 [Zakim]
- -Michael_Cooper
- 16:32:53 [AWK]
- trackbot, end meeting
- 16:32:53 [trackbot]
- Zakim, list attendees
- 16:32:53 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been Shadi, Bruce_Bailey, Kathy_Wahlbin, Joshue, David_MacDonald, Brent_Shiver, Mike_Elledge, bbailey, jon_avila, AWK, Kenny, alistair, Loretta,
- 16:32:57 [Zakim]
- ... cstrobbe, Marc_Johlic, Michael_Cooper, James_Nurthen
- 16:32:57 [Zakim]
- -cstrobbe
- 16:33:01 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes
- 16:33:01 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/02-wai-wcag-minutes.html trackbot
- 16:33:02 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, bye
- 16:33:02 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items