IRC log of ua on 2014-08-28

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:41:08 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/08/28-ua-irc
16:41:10 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:41:10 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #ua
16:41:12 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
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ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 19 minutes
16:41:13 [trackbot]
Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
16:41:13 [trackbot]
Date: 28 August 2014
16:41:20 [allanj]
rrsagent, set logs public
16:41:32 [allanj]
regrets: Jan, Eric
16:41:42 [allanj]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:41:42 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/08/28-ua-minutes.html allanj
16:42:06 [allanj]
rrsagent, set logs public
16:42:30 [allanj]
chair: jimallan, KellyFord
16:47:28 [allanj]
Agenda+ CfC name change for Implementation document
16:47:42 [allanj]
Agenda+ 1.10.1 review comments
16:48:17 [allanj]
Agenda+ Action 1019 - definition of user interface
16:49:06 [allanj]
Agenda+ Action 1018 response to MS07
16:52:02 [allanj]
Agenda+ 1.10.1 comment
16:56:57 [jeanne]
agenda+ vote on publication
17:00:35 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
17:00:42 [Zakim]
+Jeanne
17:01:04 [Zakim]
+Jim_Allan
17:02:07 [Zakim]
+Kim_Patch
17:03:23 [Zakim]
+Greg_Lowney
17:03:49 [Greg]
Greg has joined #ua
17:04:31 [allanj]
scribe: allanj
17:06:59 [KimPatch]
KimPatch has joined #ua
17:10:25 [allanj]
zakim, agenda
17:10:25 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'agenda', allanj
17:10:31 [allanj]
zakim, agenda?
17:10:31 [Zakim]
I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
17:10:33 [Zakim]
1. CfC name change for Implementation document [from allanj]
17:10:33 [Zakim]
2. 1.10.1 review comments [from allanj]
17:10:33 [Zakim]
3. Action 1019 - definition of user interface [from allanj]
17:10:33 [Zakim]
4. Action 1018 response to MS07 [from allanj]
17:10:33 [Zakim]
5. 1.10.1 comment [from allanj]
17:10:33 [Zakim]
6. vote on publication [from jeanne]
17:11:17 [allanj]
zakim, open item 1
17:11:17 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "CfC name change for Implementation document" taken up [from allanj]
17:13:34 [allanj]
RESOLUTION: Change the name of Implementing UAAG 2.0 to UAAG 2.0 Reference
17:13:35 [allanj]
​​
17:13:59 [allanj]
close item 1
17:14:15 [allanj]
Zakim, open item 2
17:14:15 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "1.10.1 review comments" taken up [from allanj]
17:14:55 [allanj]
original change:
17:14:58 [allanj]
1.10.1 Access Related Information: The user can access information from explicitly-defined relationships in the content, including at least the following (Level AA):
17:14:59 [allanj]
* label for a control or image (e.g. HTML label element, figcaption and aria-labelledby attributes)
17:15:01 [allanj]
* caption for a table
17:15:03 [allanj]
* row and column labels for a table cell
17:17:08 [allanj]
discussion of 'control' in forms vs form control vs form fields
17:18:31 [allanj]
gl: change wording or add the parenthetical back in
17:19:53 [allanj]
action: jeanne to add the (e.g. HTML label element, figcaption and aria-labelledby attributes) on 1.10.1 first bullet
17:19:53 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1025 - Add the (e.g. html label element, figcaption and aria-labelledby attributes) on 1.10.1 first bullet [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-09-04].
17:20:48 [allanj]
close item 2
17:21:01 [allanj]
zakim, open item 3
17:21:01 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Action 1019 - definition of user interface" taken up [from allanj]
17:21:45 [allanj]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JulSep/0076.html
17:23:44 [allanj]
original:
17:23:46 [allanj]
user interface
17:23:48 [allanj]
For the purposes of UAAG 2.0, the user interface includes both:
17:23:57 [allanj]
•user agent user interface: The controls (e.g. menus, buttons, prompts, native audio/video player controls, and other components for input and output) and mechanisms (e.g. selection and focus) provided by the user agent that are not created on the basis of the author-supplied content. The user agent user interface may include extensions that become part of the user agent user interface...
17:23:58 [allanj]
...(e.g. toolbars, additional menus).
17:24:06 [allanj]
•content user interface: The user interface that emerges from the user agent rendering of the author-supplied content. It includes all rendered content (e.g. text, headings, enabled elements, disabled elements, author-supplied audio/video controls).
17:24:24 [allanj]
Note: There may be a mix of recognized and unrecognized user interface controls depending on the author-supplied content.
17:24:25 [allanj]
This document distinguishes user agent user interface and content user interface only where required for clarity.
17:24:31 [allanj]
proposed:
17:24:44 [allanj]
user interface
17:24:45 [allanj]
The controls (e.g. menus, buttons, prompts, native audio/video player controls, and other components for input and output) and mechanisms (e.g. selection and focus) provided by the user agent that are not created on the basis of the author-supplied content. The user agent user interface may include extensions that become part of the user agent user interface (e.g. toolbars, additional menus).
17:26:40 [allanj]
user interface
17:26:41 [allanj]
The controls (e.g. menus, buttons, prompts, native audio/video player controls, and other components for input and output) and mechanisms (e.g. selection and focus) provided by the user agent that are not created on the basis of the author-supplied content. The user interface may include extensions that become part of the user agent user interface (e.g. toolbars, additional menus).
17:28:39 [allanj]
user interface
17:28:41 [allanj]
The controls (e.g. menus, buttons, prompts, native audio/video player controls, and other components for input and output) and mechanisms (e.g. selection and focus) provided by the user agent that are not created on the basis of the author-supplied content. The user interface may include extensions that become part of the user interface (e.g. toolbars, additional menus).
17:29:43 [allanj]
gl:
17:32:48 [allanj]
gl: should we put a note, that 'user interface' is used only for the user agent user interface and not anything created by the author.
17:33:37 [Zakim]
-Jeanne
17:33:57 [kford]
kford has joined #ua
17:34:20 [Zakim]
+Jeanne
17:34:22 [allanj]
... in content
17:34:40 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
17:34:54 [allanj]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:34:54 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/08/28-ua-minutes.html allanj
17:35:38 [allanj]
js: written by the author...an author could write a User Agent such as a media player
17:37:34 [allanj]
js: User Agent as noted in the conformance document....phrase it so if you are looking at this as a browser it applies to the browser, if a media player it refers to the media player
17:39:42 [allanj]
js: because user agents can be nested, the term user interface applies to the application seeking conformance
17:40:26 [Greg]
"Note: In this document the term user interface is reserved only for controls and mechanisms of the user agent that is being considered for conformance. It does not include controls and mechanisms created by content or other user agents. For example..." (stuff about nested and hosting UA)
17:40:42 [allanj]
kp: use definition for user agent user interface, and refer to it in the document as UA user interface
17:40:53 [allanj]
js: sounds good to me
17:41:27 [allanj]
gl: can we just create an acronym
17:41:32 [allanj]
js: sure
17:42:29 [Greg]
"considered for conformance" or "evaluated for conformance"?
17:43:31 [allanj]
ja: UI or UAUI? or UA user interface
17:44:15 [allanj]
js: keep existing User Agent User Interface and use UA user interface in the document
17:44:51 [allanj]
delete 'content user interface'?
17:45:13 [Zakim]
-Jeanne
17:45:46 [allanj]
use the following:
17:45:49 [allanj]
user agent user interface: The controls (e.g. menus, buttons, prompts, native audio/video player controls, and other components for input and output) and mechanisms (e.g. selection and focus) provided by the user agent that are not created on the basis of the author-supplied content. The user agent user interface may include extensions that become part of the user agent user interface (e.g....
17:45:51 [allanj]
...toolbars, additional menus).
17:46:25 [allanj]
use the term UA user interface in the document to replace User Agent User Interface
17:47:36 [allanj]
delete: content user interface definition and its Note.
17:52:23 [allanj]
action: jeanne to revise definition user agent user interface
17:52:23 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1026 - Revise definition user agent user interface [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-09-04].
17:52:57 [allanj]
action: jeanne to change user agent user interface to UA user interface in SC and GL to facilitate reading
17:52:58 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1027 - Change user agent user interface to ua user interface in sc and gl to facilitate reading [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-09-04].
17:53:17 [allanj]
action: jeanne to delete definition of content user interface.
17:53:18 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1028 - Delete definition of content user interface. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-09-04].
17:54:25 [allanj]
action: jim to fleshout note for conformance of nested UA user interfaces
17:54:25 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1029 - Fleshout note for conformance of nested ua user interfaces [on Jim Allan - due 2014-09-04].
17:54:49 [allanj]
close item 3
17:55:11 [allanj]
zakim, open item 4
17:55:11 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Action 1018 response to MS07" taken up [from allanj]
17:55:36 [allanj]
proposed:
17:56:23 [allanj]
UAWG put non-desktop examples throughout Implementing UAAG and published a separate Note of Mobile Accessibility Examples from Implementing UAAG. UAWG chose to put most of their non-desktop examples in Implementing UAAG (a W3C Note), so it could be kept up to date without undermining the stability of UAAG success criteria. In addition, UAAG contains broad definitions of keyboard and a note...
17:56:25 [allanj]
...under Principle 2 on Modality independence which also includes references to Indie UI. The term "keyboard" is not limited to physical keyboards, or even the on-screen keyboards provided by the platform. In our document the term also includes physical keyboards that can be connected externally, third-party on-screen keyboards that can add modifiers and navigation keys, and software...
17:56:26 [allanj]
...interfaces that can be used by assistive technology software. UAWG has updated Conformance and success criteria to improve the clarity that UAAG applies to mobile and many forms of input and navigation.
17:57:42 [allanj]
gl: change Implementing UAAG to UAAG20 Reference
17:59:34 [Greg]
Might change "In our document the term" to add a reference to the fact that the glossary makes this clear.
17:59:43 [Greg]
E.g. "In our document the glossary clarifies that the term..."
18:02:03 [Greg]
We could even go so far as to add a poke such as "If a platform cannot accommodate an on-screen keyboard or third-party software that provides navigation commands, that is a flaw which is likely to prevent compliance."
18:02:19 [allanj]
UAWG put non-desktop examples throughout UAAG20 Reference and published a separate Note of Mobile Accessibility Examples from Implementing UAAG. UAWG chose to put most of their non-desktop examples in Implementing UAAG (a W3C Note), so it could be kept up to date without undermining the stability of UAAG success criteria. In addition, UAAG contains broad definitions of keyboard and a note...
18:02:20 [allanj]
...under Principle 2 on Modality independence which also includes references to Indie UI. In our document the glossary clarifies that the term "keyboard" is not limited to physical keyboards, or even the on-screen keyboards provided by the platform. In our document the term also includes physical keyboards that can be connected externally, third-party on-screen keyboards that can add...
18:02:22 [allanj]
...modifiers and navigation keys, and software interfaces that can be used by assistive technology software. UAWG has updated Conformance and success criteria to improve the clarity that UAAG applies to mobile and many forms of input and navigation.
18:04:08 [allanj]
If a platform cannot accommodate an on-screen keyboard or third-party software that provides navigation commands, that is a flaw which is likely to prevent compliance.
18:07:19 [KimPatch]
If a platform cannot accommodate an on-screen keyboard or third-party software that provides navigation commands, this is a flaw that is likely to prevent compliance.
18:09:40 [allanj]
action: jeanne to add "UAWG put non-desktop examples throughout UAAG20 Reference and published a separate Note of Mobile Accessibility Examples from Implementing UAAG. UAWG chose to put most of their non-desktop examples in Implementing UAAG (a W3C Note), so it could be kept up to date without undermining the stability of UAAG success criteria. In addition, UAAG contains broad definitions of...
18:09:40 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1030 - Add "uawg put non-desktop examples throughout uaag20 reference and published a separate note of mobile accessibility examples from implementing uaag. uawg chose to put most of their non-desktop examples in implementing uaag (a w3c note), so it could be kept up to date without undermining the stability of uaag success criteria. in addition, uaag contains broad definitions of... [on Jeanne F Spellman
18:09:41 [trackbot]
... - due 2014-09-04].
18:09:41 [allanj]
...keyboard and a note under Principle 2 on Modality independence that also includes references to Indie UI. In our document the glossary clarifies that the term "keyboard" is not limited to physical keyboards, or even the on-screen keyboards provided by the platform. In our document the term also includes physical keyboards that can be connected externally, third-party on-screen keyboards...
18:09:43 [allanj]
...that can add modifiers and navigation keys, and software interfaces that can be used by assistive technology software. UAWG has updated Conformance and success criteria to improve the clarity that UAAG applies to mobile and many forms of input and navigation. If a platform cannot accommodate an on-screen keyboard or third-party software that provides navigation commands, this is a flaw...
18:09:44 [allanj]
...that is likely to prevent compliance." to the Disposition document for MS07
18:09:53 [allanj]
close item 4
18:10:14 [allanj]
close Action-1018
18:10:14 [trackbot]
Closed Action-1018.
18:10:24 [allanj]
Close Action-1019
18:10:24 [trackbot]
Closed Action-1019.
18:10:56 [allanj]
close item 5
18:11:04 [allanj]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:11:04 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/08/28-ua-minutes.html allanj
18:11:56 [allanj]
Topic: 1.7.4 de-minification of CSS on save
18:12:53 [allanj]
proposed: While it is customary for authors to compress stylesheets and scripts to save load time, it would be highly beneficial if the user agent saved the stylesheets in a user understandable formatted manner to facilitate authoring by users.
18:15:10 [Greg]
"in a format that facilitates reading and editing by users (e.g. without stripping out line breaks)"?
18:17:23 [allanj]
While it is customary for authors to compress stylesheets and scripts to save load time, it would be highly beneficial if the user agent saved the stylesheets in a format that facilitates reading and editing by users (e.g. without stripping out line breaks) to facilitate authoring by users.
18:18:33 [allanj]
action: jeanne to add "While it is customary for authors to compress stylesheets and scripts to save load time, it would be highly beneficial if the user agent saved the stylesheets in a format that facilitates reading and editing by users (e.g. without stripping out line breaks)." to the Reference document for 1.7.4
18:18:34 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1031 - Add "while it is customary for authors to compress stylesheets and scripts to save load time, it would be highly beneficial if the user agent saved the stylesheets in a format that facilitates reading and editing by users (e.g. without stripping out line breaks)." to the reference document for 1.7.4 [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-09-04].
18:18:56 [allanj]
close Action-987
18:18:56 [trackbot]
Closed Action-987.
18:21:05 [allanj]
RESOLUTION: Publish a draft of the guidelines document.
18:21:12 [allanj]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:21:12 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/08/28-ua-minutes.html allanj
18:22:49 [allanj]
gl: wants a resolution to funding for F2F, as to who will actually attend.
18:22:58 [allanj]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:22:58 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/08/28-ua-minutes.html allanj
18:23:15 [Zakim]
-Jim_Allan
18:23:34 [allanj]
zakim, please part
18:23:34 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Jeanne, Jim_Allan, Kim_Patch, Greg_Lowney, [Microsoft]
18:23:34 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
18:24:07 [allanj]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:24:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/08/28-ua-minutes.html allanj
18:24:30 [allanj]
rrsagent, please part
18:24:30 [RRSAgent]
I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/08/28-ua-actions.rdf :
18:24:30 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to add the (e.g. HTML label element, figcaption and aria-labelledby attributes) on 1.10.1 first bullet [1]
18:24:30 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/08/28-ua-irc#T17-19-53
18:24:30 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to revise definition user agent user interface [2]
18:24:30 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/08/28-ua-irc#T17-52-23
18:24:30 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to change user agent user interface to UA user interface in SC and GL to facilitate reading [3]
18:24:30 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/08/28-ua-irc#T17-52-57
18:24:30 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to delete definition of content user interface. [4]
18:24:30 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/08/28-ua-irc#T17-53-17
18:24:30 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jim to fleshout note for conformance of nested UA user interfaces [5]
18:24:30 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/08/28-ua-irc#T17-54-25
18:24:30 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to add "UAWG put non-desktop examples throughout UAAG20 Reference and published a separate Note of Mobile Accessibility Examples from Implementing UAAG. UAWG chose to put most of their non-desktop examples in Implementing UAAG (a W3C Note), so it could be kept up to date without undermining the stability of UAAG success criteria. In addition, UAAG contains broad definitions of... [6]
18:24:30 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/08/28-ua-irc#T18-09-40
18:24:30 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to add "While it is customary for authors to compress stylesheets and scripts to save load time, it would be highly beneficial if the user agent saved the stylesheets in a format that facilitates reading and editing by users (e.g. without stripping out line breaks)." to the Reference document for 1.7.4 [7]
18:24:30 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/08/28-ua-irc#T18-18-33