17:17:30 Rich - do you see an issue with authors having second value (as fall back)? 17:18:20 -Joseph_Scheuhammer 17:18:37 +[IPcaller] 17:18:41 lisaseeman has joined #dpub 17:18:53 markus? - may be a non-starter for publishers; hard enough to get them to include basic semantics 17:19:27 tzviya - may not be too hard for larger publishers; but for smaller publishers a decision tree might be too much. 17:19:41 LisaSeeman has joined #dpub 17:20:09 Matt - if native element was

you have an element with no semantics 17:20:19 clapierre has joined #DPUB 17:20:31 sorry Im late - just got off the coga call 17:20:55 Rich - but not an issue based on current definitions; even if browser doesn't know about it today, assistive technologies have something to work with... 17:20:58 q+ 17:21:19 q+ 17:21:37 q- later 17:21:47 clapierre has left #dpub 17:21:57 I'm still getting: This conference is full. Any way to expand the size? 17:22:22 Rich - dpub IG wants to use role attribute, but if browser doesn't know about value, then a second value is needed for fall back 17:23:10 Rich -- that may be a non-starter, but if you have a single value, falling back to native language may be good enough 17:23:24 q? 17:23:28 ack jongund 17:23:28 cynthia - that should be acceptable 17:24:16 jon gunderson -- dom may eventually have a computed role. How would fall back option affect computed role? 17:25:05 q+ to ask about the feasibility of using a private vocabulary for some of the epub-unique roles 17:25:49 sorry I'm late. 17:26:34 Rich - if we had computed role, could compare it to computed role and if they don't match generate a warning 17:27:30 ack ivan 17:27:45 jon 2nd question -- would developers take EPUB3 roles and try to use in HTML 5; would validators distinguish between EPUB3 and HTML5 for validation 17:28:16 Ivan - what is the way a separate group can define new roles while HTML 5 group is doing their thing? 17:28:36 Rich - no mechanism now, but we will have to address long term 17:29:05 q+ 17:29:12 Shane - roles accepted by Validator are defined by a document that both PF and HTML 5 can edit 17:29:27 Ivan - do that reference that document? 17:29:35 Shane - they refer to it manually. 17:29:50 Ivan - both groups have write permissions to this document? 17:29:57 Shane - that is my understanding 17:30:30 Ivan - then EPUB could get values added by working with either group, but how big is EPUB list 17:30:45 ??? about 100 terms 17:30:45 epub 3 structural semantic vocab http://www.idpf.org/epub/vocab/structure/ 17:30:56 s/???/tzviya 17:31:04 Is this the doc in question? http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab 17:31:16 Shane - the role attribute spec references the document. 17:31:40 q? 17:32:11 ??? role attribute spec allows for independent role vocabularies to be added by rdfa mechanism 17:32:28 s/???/Shane/ 17:32:34 ??? would it be acceptable to have EPUB role values scoped? 17:32:42 s/???/Shane/ 17:33:19 markus - some of the EPUB roles will be common, some are more niched (albeit still important) 17:33:36 markus - it could be that the niche roles could be separated out in a prefixed way. 17:34:01 ??? if might be a tough call to say which are the most generic, most crucial 17:34:01 q+ 17:34:08 q? 17:34:19 ack ShaneM 17:34:25 It would preferable to have a general mechanism for adding vocabulary for EPUB 17:35:20 shaneM - validator was rejecting namespaced role values, but they are not opposed to it, just need to close the loop 17:35:44 Rich - you don't want to namespace everything that is commonly used -- is this a fair assumption 17:35:50 markus - yes 17:36:11 ack tzviya 17:36:22 ack Shane_McCarron 17:36:22 Shane_McCarron, you wanted to ask about the feasibility of using a private vocabulary for some of the epub-unique roles 17:36:38 tzviya - the real desire is to create html once and use it everywhere 17:36:40 +1 17:36:55 tzviya - we want to avoid namespaces and make it easy to author 17:37:08 role=“epub:chapter” 17:37:21 q+ 17:37:35 tzviya - would prefer not to namespace chapter, for example 17:37:41 q- 17:37:48 ack LisaSeeman 17:38:11 tzviya - and if you do namespace more obscure roles, they are less likely to get used. 17:38:57 http://www.idpf.org/epub/vocab/structure/ 17:39:00 lisa - needs to be successful not just for EPUB authors but also for others with cognitive disabilities 17:39:08 q+ to ask whether we intend these roles only for a11y? Or also for general use? 17:39:43 ivan - some of the dpub / EPUB roles are very useful for other communities 17:39:50 Note that some roles are already esoteric. 17:40:02 ack janina 17:40:02 janina, you wanted to ask whether we intend these roles only for a11y? Or also for general use? 17:40:08 ack lisa 17:40:41 "Accessibility is for both meat and machine" is something I get to say all the time. 17:40:45 janina - overarching question: you don't need a disability to appreciate roles; do we anticipate that this will have a general applicability? 17:40:50 several - yes. 17:41:28 Rich - we would do harm if we didn't have a vehicle for opening this up to broader community. 17:42:17 ivan - need to see what is next step. We need to document where we want to go and how. 17:42:55 Rich - we need a joint effort between dp ig and pf wg (aria subteam) 17:43:40 markus - that makes sense. one of the things people in idpf want to know is the size of the effort. 17:44:30 Rich - need to provide that to dp ig but also other stakeholders within idpf 17:44:44 -[IPcaller] 17:45:04 -Shane_McCarron 17:45:27 janina and tzviya have an action to start this from the pf side 17:45:55 +Shane_McCarron 17:45:56 ivan - both groups will be meeting f2f at TPAC. we should try to find time to have a session together 17:46:01 +[IPcaller] 17:46:01 zakim, I am Shane_McCarron 17:46:02 ok, ShaneM, I now associate you with Shane_McCarron 17:46:52 zakim, I am [IPcaller] 17:46:52 ok, LisaSeeman, I now associate lisaseeman with [IPcaller] 17:47:06 deborah - what is the why that dp task force can collaborate with PF? 17:47:30 ??? need someone to take lead and run with this. 17:47:47 this will take weekly or near weekly meetings 17:47:59 s/???/Rich/ 17:48:32 markus - I think deborah's question was about more broad collaboration 17:48:57 janina - we could write a statement with deliverable as well as with a general statement about liaison 17:49:06 ivan - so what are the reasonable deliverables? 17:49:34 deborah - what are the deliverables? 17:50:12 rich - 1. role attribute value module, 2. a guide for browsers, 3. guidelines for authors 17:51:22 we learned in the ARIA 1.1 effort that we had to write specification for implementation 17:52:15 ivan - still a little in the dark, what would a guide for browser / user agent guidelines mean? what could dp ig contribute? 17:52:31 dauwhe has joined #dpub 17:52:53 Rich - each browser maps to accessible technologies on the platform 17:53:25 rich - for a book reader, how do we specify that we want to navigate by book chapter? 17:53:52 rich - does W3 specify or does IPDF? 17:55:17 rich - if you put EPUB semantics in your document, who defines how the browser uses this structure? 17:55:49 markus - that seems like something that could stay (for now at least) with dp ig / IDPF 17:56:11 focus for now on the mappings to accessible APIs 17:56:26 ??? how about authoring practices? 17:57:04 markus - there are already some resources on authoring best practices 17:58:02 -dauwhe 17:58:20 -Matt_King 17:58:34 ivan - dp ig should look at core accessibility guidelines and see how complete they are for dp 17:59:09 deborah - pf wg wants to address gaps as they are identified 17:59:59 q+ 18:00:00 george - the semantics that are being introduced go a long way 18:00:18 ack tzviya 18:01:10 tzviya - a lot of what deborah is getting at seems overlaps. can deborah work with tzviya and janina 18:01:44 to be clear pf wg wants to help identify gaps, though other groups may work on these issues 18:02:15 ivan - tzviya, janina and deborah will try to have a document by about mid-September. follow-up with call or during TPAC 18:02:34 -Suzann_Keohane 18:02:50 -Shane_McCarron 18:03:12 public-pfwg@w3.org 18:04:08 -Jon_Gunderson 18:04:10 -[IPcaller] 18:04:11 -mgylling 18:04:11 -Luc 18:04:13 -Tzviya 18:04:13 -Cynthia_Shelly 18:04:14 -dkaplan3 18:04:14 -George_Kerscher 18:04:15 -TimCole 18:04:15 -david_stroup 18:04:17 jongund has left #dpub 18:04:17 -Ivan 18:04:19 -pBelfanti 18:04:20 -Matt_Haas 18:04:20 -janina 18:04:22 -Rich_Schwerdtfeger 18:04:24 rrsagent, draft minutes 18:04:24 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/08/25-dpub-minutes.html ivan 18:04:28 -[Microsoft] 18:04:29 DPUB_IG()1:00PM has ended 18:04:29 Attendees were janina, Ivan, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, dkaplan3, George_Kerscher, Tzviya, Luc, +1.717.635.aaaa, pBelfanti, Suzann_Keohane, david_stroup, Matt_Haas, dauwhe, 18:04:29 ... Shane_McCarron, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Cynthia_Shelly, [Microsoft], TimCole, mgylling, +1.541.678.aabb, Jon_Gunderson, Matt_King, [IPcaller] 18:04:48 ARIA Ppeople, we can continue in #aria 18:05:42 matt has left #dpub 18:07:21 pkra has joined #dpub 18:16:11 clown has left #dpub 18:47:46 pkra has joined #dpub 19:47:02 fjh has joined #dpub 19:59:57 fjh_ has joined #dpub 21:05:39 astearns_ has joined #dpub 22:05:04 janina has joined #dpub