12:48:49 RRSAgent has joined #dwbp 12:48:49 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/08/15-dwbp-irc 12:48:55 Zakim has joined #dwbp 12:50:21 phila has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Talk:Meetings:Telecon20140815 12:50:42 trackbot has joined #dwbp 12:51:04 RRSAgent, make logs public 12:58:55 EricKauz has joined #dwbp 12:59:37 SumitPurohit has joined #DWBP 13:00:30 zakim, this is dwbp 13:00:30 ok, phila; that matches DATA_DWBP()9:00AM 13:00:35 zakim, who is here? 13:00:35 On the phone I see +1.609.947.aaaa, +1.617.646.aabb, [IPcaller] 13:00:37 On IRC I see SumitPurohit, EricKauz, trackbot, Zakim, RRSAgent, phila, ivan 13:00:38 +HadleyBeeman 13:00:43 zakim, ipcaller is me 13:00:44 +phila; got it 13:01:21 +Caroline 13:01:28 newton has joined #dwbp 13:01:43 JoaoPauloAlmeida has joined #DWBP 13:01:48 zakim, aaaa is EricKauz 13:01:48 +EricKauz; got it 13:02:07 zakim, aabb is SumitPurohit 13:02:07 +SumitPurohit; got it 13:02:13 zakim, who is here? 13:02:13 On the phone I see EricKauz, SumitPurohit, phila, HadleyBeeman, Caroline 13:02:13 zakim, dial ivan-voip 13:02:15 On IRC I see JoaoPauloAlmeida, newton, SumitPurohit, EricKauz, trackbot, Zakim, RRSAgent, phila, ivan 13:02:15 ok, ivan; the call is being made 13:02:15 +Ivan 13:02:24 zakim, caroline is yaso 13:02:24 +yaso; got it 13:02:37 zakim, yaso has Flavio, Vagner 13:02:38 +Flavio, Vagner; got it 13:02:43 +[IPcaller] 13:02:49 Zakim, IPcaller is me 13:02:49 +JoaoPauloAlmeida; got it 13:02:49 zakim, yaso has Newton 13:02:50 +Newton; got it 13:02:57 yaso has joined #dwbp 13:02:57 Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Talk:Meetings:Telecon20140815 13:03:01 chair: Hadley 13:03:15 Zakim, Flávio isn’t here 13:03:15 I don't understand 'Flávio isn’t here', yaso 13:03:48 HadleyBeeman has joined #dwbp 13:03:51 regrets: Jeremy, Antoine, Ghislain, EricS, Deirdre, Makx 13:03:56 -JoaoPauloAlmeida 13:04:01 present- Flavio 13:04:19 +[IPcaller] 13:04:41 zakim, who is here? 13:04:41 On the phone I see EricKauz, SumitPurohit, phila, HadleyBeeman, yaso, Ivan, [IPcaller] 13:04:44 yaso has Newton 13:04:44 On IRC I see HadleyBeeman, yaso, JoaoPauloAlmeida, newton, SumitPurohit, EricKauz, trackbot, Zakim, RRSAgent, phila, ivan 13:05:05 zakim, ipcaller is JoaoPauloAlmeida 13:05:05 +JoaoPauloAlmeida; got it 13:05:06 laufer has joined #dwbp 13:05:23 JoaoPauloAlmeida_ has joined #DWBP 13:05:34 Zakim, IPcaller is probably me 13:05:34 sorry, JoaoPauloAlmeida_, I do not understand your question 13:05:41 :-) 13:05:48 scribe: yaso 13:06:06 http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2014-08-08 13:06:30 +[IPcaller] 13:06:43 PROPOSED: accept last week minutes 13:06:43 zakim, IPcaller is me 13:06:43 +laufer; got it 13:06:54 +1 13:06:55 http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2014-08-08 13:06:57 +1 13:06:58 (Zakim instructions include "is possibly", "is probably", "may be", ...) 13:06:58 +1 13:07:05 +1 13:07:09 http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot 13:07:11 +1 13:07:13 ;-) 13:07:25 +1 13:07:50 Topic: TPAC 13:08:13 Actions: 13:08:48 HadleyBeeman: there area actions that are open, and we have things that have to be done for TPAC 13:08:59 … the first action is action 32 13:09:05 Topic: Actions 13:09:08 action-32? 13:09:08 action-32 -- Hadley Beeman to Write email on discoverable data vs data catalogues -- due 2014-05-16 -- OPEN 13:09:08 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/32 13:09:09 action-32? 13:09:09 action-32 -- Hadley Beeman to Write email on discoverable data vs data catalogues -- due 2014-05-16 -- OPEN 13:09:09 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/32 13:09:28 … I’ve not done it yet, are any of you waiting for me to finish that? 13:09:45 http://www.w3.org/2013/share-psi/workshop/samos/report 13:10:02 Phil: I was in Samos... 13:10:22 …It will be interesting if some of the people of the working group where there 13:10:31 http://www.w3.org/2013/share-psi/workshop/samos/report#metadata 13:11:11 …the idea of having something coming from the government 13:12:08 …there’s a similar situation in Austria 13:14:22 HadleyBeeman: why you report is important for the group? 13:14:28 s/you/your 13:15:05 Phil: what the workshop are doing is providing use cases, experiences material for research 13:15:33 …that can end up being a use case for the working group 13:15:55 …that provides input to the Working Group that I hope can be used as evidence of the best practices 13:16:08 …in the next year, when the workshop series is finished 13:16:26 …in july 2016 this WG is supposed to finish 13:16:42 +yaso.a 13:17:19 …It will be the time when our deliverables will be candidates to recommendation 13:17:27 Caroline has joined #DWBP 13:17:47 …that has 45 partners 13:18:04 …is a pool of people that are commited to update guidelines or create new guidelines 13:18:14 that's an interesting way to collect evidence for best practices 13:18:21 q+ 13:18:48 ack laufer 13:20:44 laufer: I'm saying this because this is very common 13:21:09 ... even here in Brazil, the Pernambuco portal, they have directions to people how to publish their data 13:21:22 https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/asset/dcat_application_profile/asset_release/dcat-application-profile-data-portals-europe-final 13:21:30 yaso_ has joined #dwbp 13:22:55 December workshop http://www.w3.org/2013/share-psi/workshop/lisbon/ 13:22:58 Yaso is with problems on internet 13:23:00 Sorry, I’m having problems with my connection 13:23:40 Newton, could you assume scribing from here for a while? 13:23:42 yes, ok 13:23:50 scribe: Newton 13:23:56 Laufer: that's different from brazilian 13:24:30 action-46? 13:24:30 action-46 -- Yaso Córdova to Generate/collate further use cases concerning iot, transport, privacy -- due 2014-06-13 -- OPEN 13:24:30 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/46 13:24:31 action-46 13:24:31 action-46 -- Yaso Córdova to Generate/collate further use cases concerning iot, transport, privacy -- due 2014-06-13 -- OPEN 13:24:31 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/46 13:24:55 HadleyBeeman: ask yaso about action 46 13:25:10 yaso_: I've started to do it, but not finished yet 13:25:23 ... we're running an experience here on brazil 13:25:32 ... trying to track pieces of trash 13:25:43 CarlosIglesias has joined #dwbp 13:25:52 ... I'm gonna try to write on the next week 13:26:06 ... when it's finish I'll share the results with the group 13:26:19 yaso: I was think about that yestarday 13:26:29 +??P18 13:26:32 ... about the difference between small data and big data 13:26:38 ... because small data is new for me 13:26:44 zakim, ??P18 is really me 13:26:44 +CarlosIglesias; got it 13:26:45 ... anybody on the group heard about it? 13:26:49 Zakim, who's talking? 13:26:54 /me newton, this is ivan 13:27:00 newton, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: HadleyBeeman (4%) 13:27:17 http://smalldatagroup.com/ 13:27:34 yaso: I was thinking about IoT related data 13:27:43 ... it's a new concept for me 13:27:47 q+ 13:27:52 ... and I think that we need to study a little more 13:28:01 ack phila 13:28:02 ack me 13:28:08 ... I don't know if we need to do it on the group ou just discuss about it 13:28:55 phila: ... it's related to IoT area 13:29:26 yaso: but I still think that we could look at some use cases related to it 13:29:43 ... we can look at the data flow of Web of Things 13:30:13 yaso: may there are some things on this data flow that we can study 13:30:26 HadleyBeeman: the action still open 13:30:27 ? 13:30:29 ... ? 13:30:57 HadleyBeeman: spend a lot of time exploring 13:31:14 yaso: I think that the data flow, related to IoT and WoT, deserves attention 13:31:19 q? 13:31:31 ... we need to study two or three UC to learn about it 13:31:52 HadleyBeeman: ask for create a new action to yaso related to this topic 13:32:26 action: yaso to discover where the 46 fit in the deliverables 13:32:26 Created ACTION-63 - Discover where the 46 fit in the deliverables [on Yaso Córdova - due 2014-08-22]. 13:32:43 action-54? 13:32:43 action-54 -- Mark Harrison to Write to write up definitions on intrinsic metadata -- due 2014-07-04 -- OPEN 13:32:43 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/54 13:32:58 HadleyBeeman: ... discussion where metadata is.. 13:33:13 ... waiting for mark 13:33:19 action-55? 13:33:19 action-55 -- Eric Stephan to Seek feedback on json-ld version of dcat schema, using, for example http://rdf-translator.appspot.com/ with http://www.w3.org/ns/dcat.ttl -- due 2014-07-17 -- OPEN 13:33:19 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/55 13:33:20 action-47 13:33:20 action-47 -- Bernadette Farias Loscio to Discuss with eric data usage meaning for the use case requirements, and for the vocabulary and finding consensus in the group -- due 2014-06-20 -- OPEN 13:33:20 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/47 13:33:26 sorry, action-55 13:34:04 action-57? 13:34:04 action-57 -- Phil Archer to Invite markus lanthaler to a future vocabs call -- due 2014-07-31 -- OPEN 13:34:04 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/57 13:34:49 phila: mark is interested in JSON-LD schema 13:35:11 \o/ 13:35:19 scribe: yaso 13:35:22 thanks yaso :) 13:35:30 Phila: ruben was talking about APIs 13:35:42 …he wrote something around API 13:35:59 …they allow you to set up cool data based apps 13:36:27 …JASON-LD is part of that, smart APIs is part of that 13:36:55 s/JASON/JSON/g 13:37:43 q+ 13:37:54 …the DCAT schema only define 13:38:02 …namespaces 13:38:13 namespaces/terms from that namespace 13:38:40 ack HadleyBeeman 13:38:59 HadleyBeeman: I want to ask what kind of app uses JSON-LD 13:39:25 yaso: we're building a parser to make feeds that are written on xml formmat 13:39:36 yaso: with tags of RDF 13:39:59 yaso: I was talking with some developers in Berlin where we discussed about IoT 13:40:13 ... they told me that don't like of RDF, they prefer JSON-LD 13:40:28 ... and they were telling to me how is difficult to get start with RDF 13:40:40 ... and how difficult to make things using RDF 13:40:53 ... the people don't do a lot of things with RDF 13:41:15 phila: it deppends on the context 13:41:33 sidenote: I foresee the same problems for JSON-LD as we had previously (and still now) with RDF/XML - people may be using that only as JSON or XML, not RDF 13:42:05 Have seen that with RDF/XML tons of times and start to see this also in JSON-LD 13:42:43 EricKauz: : json-ld is great idea 13:42:48 ... ? 13:42:52 (sorry, guys) 13:43:10 s/erickauz/ivan 13:43:30 q+ 13:43:38 q+ 13:43:46 yaso: I think that people have to design great apps showing the differences between the things that RDF can do and what JSON-LD can do 13:44:09 q+ 13:44:11 +1 :) 13:44:14 +1 13:44:17 +1 13:44:18 +1 13:44:47 yaso: maybe a group of people can get together to talk about... 13:46:25 Should we perhaps write this up as a best practice? 13:46:40 -HadleyBeeman 13:46:41 "Use JSON when…. RDF is useful when…" etc 13:46:49 ivan: we said about json ... I don't want to waste my time writing a parser or something complicated 13:47:23 +HadleyBeeman 13:47:27 ... javascript is a language used a lot on the web 13:48:09 ... there are libraries to use RDF in python 13:48:30 q? 13:48:33 ack me 13:48:50 ack laufer 13:49:16 laufer: just talk about if people use JSON-LD or RDF.. people confuse if use one or another 13:49:28 +1 to lauder 13:49:34 s/lauder/laufer 13:49:46 ... RDF model is one thing, RDF serialization is other thing 13:50:30 ivan: I mean if you talk with a developer... for 80% RDF is just a kind of xml 13:50:43 .... RDF is something very uggly 13:50:55 could it be that the problem for us is that they do not use RDFS? 13:51:07 q+ 13:51:27 ... the separation between the model and the syntax isn't obvious to many people 13:51:39 +1 13:51:41 ack yaso 13:51:50 q- 13:51:51 ... even the document may be clarified 13:52:28 +1 to yaso 13:52:33 RDF is lousy at lists... 13:52:58 q? 13:52:58 https://github.com/W3CBrasil/OD4D 13:52:58 yaso: if you're writing a list or a simple graph, using RDF for that don't add value to the application 13:53:24 I don't think anyone disagrees with you, Yaso 13:53:39 yaso: it's hard to show to users that they are seeing things in different ways 13:53:55 it was not me 13:54:30 q+ 13:54:41 ack joao 13:54:42 action: Sumit to begin wiki page where we can collect cases where each tech is most appropriate 13:54:42 Created ACTION-64 - Begin wiki page where we can collect cases where each tech is most appropriate [on Sumit Purohit - due 2014-08-22]. 13:55:08 schema vs schema-less 13:55:11 SumitPurohit: discuss about schema vs. schemaless for data 13:55:21 s/schemaless/schema-less 13:55:53 ivan: if you look at CSV is extremely simple structure 13:56:26 s/SumitPurohit/JoaoPauloAlmeida 13:57:14 ... RDF requires a certain level of qualification to work with related data 13:57:48 scribe: yaso 13:57:53 completely agree: trees vs. graphs is the key issue here 13:58:16 Ivan: they are very used because they all rely on some sort of graph map 13:58:32 Can we demonstrate these differences with images? Tables vs trees vs graphs are much easier in pictures, I think. 13:58:32 that's why so many people are using XML (and likely to be happening the same with JSON-LD) serializations wrong 13:58:37 …and people are doing simple trees and simple lists for presenting their ideas 13:58:41 q? 13:59:18 HadleyBeeman: we can certainly help people so that they can see the differences of ld and other data 13:59:44 action-59? 13:59:45 action-59 -- Phil Archer to Ask yaso to think about offering a tutorial on using github for editors, use of gh-pages etc. -- due 2014-07-31 -- OPEN 13:59:45 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/59 13:59:54 Yes! 14:00:01 close action-59 14:00:01 Closed action-59. 14:00:28 action: Yaso to set time for a tutorial on github for editors, use of gh-pages etc. 14:00:28 Created ACTION-65 - Set time for a tutorial on github for editors, use of gh-pages etc. [on Yaso Córdova - due 2014-08-22]. 14:00:48 Yaso, I could help you with that 14:01:13 https://github.com/w3c/csvw/blob/gh-pages/publishing_process.md 14:01:13 Tks, Newton! 14:02:18 -EricKauz 14:02:19 Bye 14:02:19 -JoaoPauloAlmeida 14:02:21 bye, all 14:02:21 yaso has left #dwbp 14:02:23 -HadleyBeeman 14:02:24 -SumitPurohit 14:02:25 bye! 14:02:27 bye 14:02:27 -yaso 14:02:37 -yaso.a 14:02:38 -laufer 14:05:00 HadleyBeeman has joined #dwbp 14:06:27 HadleyBeeman has joined #dwbp 14:07:43 HadleyBeeman has joined #dwbp 14:09:03 HadleyBeeman has joined #dwbp 14:10:22 HadleyBeeman has joined #dwbp 14:11:42 HadleyBeeman has joined #dwbp 14:13:01 HadleyBeeman has joined #dwbp 14:14:20 HadleyBeeman has joined #dwbp 14:15:38 HadleyBeeman has joined #dwbp 14:16:58 HadleyBeeman has joined #dwbp 14:58:22 -Ivan 14:58:23 -phila 14:58:43 RRSAgent, draft minutes 14:58:43 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/08/15-dwbp-minutes.html phila 15:03:22 disconnecting the lone participant, CarlosIglesias, in DATA_DWBP()9:00AM 15:03:25 DATA_DWBP()9:00AM has ended 15:03:25 Attendees were +1.609.947.aaaa, +1.617.646.aabb, HadleyBeeman, phila, EricKauz, SumitPurohit, Ivan, Flavio, Vagner, JoaoPauloAlmeida, Newton, laufer, yaso, CarlosIglesias 17:34:36 Zakim has left #dwbp