15:04:56 RRSAgent has joined #html-media
15:04:56 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/08/12-html-media-irc
15:04:58 RRSAgent, make logs public
15:04:58 Zakim has joined #html-media
15:05:00 Zakim, this will be 63342
15:05:00 ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()11:00AM scheduled to start 5 minutes ago
15:05:01 Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
15:05:01 Date: 12 August 2014
15:05:19 Scribe: joesteele
15:05:19 zakim, who is on the phone?
15:05:20 HTML_WG()11:00AM has not yet started, adrianba
15:05:21 On IRC I see RRSAgent, adrianba, glenn, davide, niels_t, ddorwin, markw, jdsmith, joesteele, trackbot
15:05:24 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Aug/0005.html
15:05:29 Chair: paulc
15:11:56 Chair: markw
15:11:56 rrsagent, pointer?
15:11:56 See http://www.w3.org/2014/08/12-html-media-irc#T15-11-56-1
15:12:06 zakim, who is on the phone?
15:12:06 HTML_WG()11:00AM has not yet started, adrianba
15:12:07 Zakim, who is here?
15:12:09 On IRC I see RRSAgent, adrianba, glenn, davide, niels_t, ddorwin, markw, jdsmith, joesteele, trackbot
15:12:09 HTML_WG()11:00AM has not yet started, joesteele
15:12:10 On IRC I see RRSAgent, adrianba, glenn, davide, niels_t, ddorwin, markw, jdsmith, joesteele, trackbot
15:12:22 zakim, this will be HTML_WG
15:12:22 ok, adrianba, I see HTML_WG()11:00AM already started
15:12:28 paulc has joined #html-media
15:12:44 Chair: adrianba
15:12:44 trackbot, start meeting
15:12:45 zakim, who is on the phone?
15:12:45 On the phone I see jdsmith, markw, +1.714.928.aaaa, joesteele, davide, Niels_Thorwirth, glenn, +1.425.936.aabb, [Microsoft]
15:12:46 RRSAgent, make logs public
15:12:48 Zakim, this will be 63342
15:12:48 ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()11:00AM scheduled to start 12 minutes ago
15:12:49 zakim, [Microsoft] is me
15:12:49 sorry, adrianba, I do not recognize a party named '[Microsoft]'
15:12:49 Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
15:12:49 Date: 12 August 2014
15:13:32 Chair: paulc
15:14:03 zakim, who is on the phone?
15:14:03 I notice HTML_WG()11:00AM has restarted
15:14:05 On the phone I see jdsmith, markw, +1.714.928.aaaa, joesteele, davide, Niels_Thorwirth, glenn, +1.425.936.aabb, [Microsoft], [Microsoft.a]
15:14:09 Topic: traffic
15:14:10 zakim, [Microsoft] is me
15:14:10 +adrianba; got it
15:14:22 paulc: bad today
15:14:24 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Aug/0005.html
15:14:28 pal has joined #html-media
15:14:36 Topic: EME status and bugs
15:14:55 zakim, who is on the phone?
15:14:55 On the phone I see jdsmith, markw, +1.714.928.aaaa, joesteele, davide, Niels_Thorwirth, glenn, +1.425.936.aabb, adrianba, [Microsoft.a]
15:15:12 zakim, [Microsoft.a] is paulc
15:15:12 +paulc; got it
15:15:28 zakim, aabb is ddorwin
15:15:28 +ddorwin; got it
15:15:34 zakim, i am aabb
15:15:34 sorry, ddorwin, I do not see a party named 'aabb'
15:15:44 zakim, aabb is me
15:15:44 sorry, ddorwin, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
15:16:31 heff_ has joined #html-media
15:16:31 Topic: EME bugs with proposal
15:16:39 Topic: Bug 25866 - "needkey" event name is misleading
15:16:47 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25866#c4
15:16:48 +[IPcaller]
15:16:50 hey, 714 is me. Steve from Brightcove/Video.js
15:16:57 paulc: here is the proposal
15:17:16 zakim, aaaa is heff_
15:17:16 +heff_; got it
15:18:01 pal has joined #html-media
15:18:15 ddorwin: was talking to some team members to this -- anything really accurate is too long and wordy. This seems short and reasonable
15:18:24 +1
15:18:25 +1
15:18:39 paulc: any objections?
15:18:47 ... make it so David
15:18:51 ddorwin: ok
15:19:13 Topic: Bug 18515 - Provide more details on behavior of the media element when the key for an encrypted block is not available
15:19:17 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18515
15:19:31 paulc: Jerry expressed some concern that the solution in the bug had not resovled some race conditions
15:19:34 Race conditions concerns: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18515#c31
15:19:52 jdsmith: was not a concern -- just was raised
15:20:04 paulc: are there outstanding issues to resolve?
15:20:11 Comments since last meeting: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18515#c40
15:20:12 ... some coments since last mtg
15:20:32 ddorwin: that is my comment to Jerry -- if he agrees lets move forward
15:20:43 jdsmith: have not looked yet
15:21:06 ... leave for editors and assume will be resolved
15:22:09 joesteele_ has joined #html-media
15:22:11 Topic: Bug 20336 - Revert addition of keySystem attribute to HTMLSourceElement
15:22:16 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20336#c8
15:22:24 Scribe: joesteele_
15:22:46 paulc: any resolution needed by task force?
15:23:06 David's proposal: I plan to submit a changeset that removes HTMLSourceElement (rather than spending time converting it).
15:23:11 paulc: proposing remove rather than convert correct?
15:23:51 +1
15:23:57 Related to https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23828#c4
15:23:59 ddorwin: Jerry and I discussed, p3828 if no objection will make removal permanent
15:24:12 ... don't think can support with the way isTypeSupported is toda
15:24:17 jdsmith: I agree
15:24:26 s/toda /today/
15:24:31 paulc: any objections?
15:24:41 ... presume resolved
15:24:57 Topic: Bug 26372
15:25:08 paulc: skipped last week because David was not here
15:25:31 See David's previous changes: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26372#c2
15:25:34 paulc: you provided a changeset with this comment
15:25:50 ddorwin: I closed the old bug and opened this one
15:26:00 See Joe's feedback: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26372#c3
15:26:04 ... listed some of the scenarios that are not covered by Promises
15:26:19 ... still a question about how to return them -- error attribute does not seem to make sense
15:26:34 ... looking for input from the group, both on errors and how to report
15:26:45 See Joe's question: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26372#c4
15:26:49 paulc: do you have an answer to comment#4?
15:27:24 ddorwin: loading would be a Promise rejected with DOMException - general problem of how to report system codes in this case
15:27:35 paulc: is there a separate bug for this?
15:27:51 ddorwin: no we closed the earlier bug, Jerry is going to think about how to do system codes
15:27:59 q+
15:28:18 Previous bug was https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21798 related to this.
15:28:22 paulc: old bug was 21798?
15:28:23 ack jd
15:28:41 jdsmith: we still have interest in a system code, but still looking for a way to add back into the spec
15:29:02 q+
15:29:04 ... in the discussion I mentioned putting systemCode as an attribute on the exception but that was viewed as unacceptable
15:29:05 subclassing DOMException bug where systemCode was discussed: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25896
15:29:11 ... do others have opinions?
15:29:30 ... we think they are useful for debugging errors in actual use -- need to retain somehow
15:29:38 paul: any alternatives?
15:29:47 My comment is just that it is essential for us to expose the system code in failure cases
15:29:48 q-
15:30:09 jdsmith: only one I floated was attaching the value to the MediaKeySession - but only captures last error encountered
15:30:18 paulc: was that discussed?
15:30:55 jdsmith: we had a derivative that returned as a sub-class of DOMException but that is gone now
15:31:08 ... DOMException has not provision for this -- only named values
15:31:20 s/not provision/no provision/
15:31:35 jdsmith: I will open a new bug and make a proposal
15:32:06 Topic: EME bugs awaiting input from Task Force or actions
15:32:15 Topic: Bug 25268 - Reduce the burden on applications to deduplicate initData from many needkey events
15:32:22 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25268#c6
15:32:49 paulc: David has a proposal in comment #6 reverted earlier change and has been that way since July 11th
15:33:22 ddorwin: waiting for a bright idea here -- has been no good proposal yet
15:33:54 paulc: can someone volunteer to take a look
15:34:01 ... propose a new solution?
15:34:13 glenn: this is on dedup of initData?
15:34:34 ... is this considered an optimization? would it impact functionality if not addressed?
15:34:47 ddorwin: correct -- its an optimization
15:35:00 glenn: this could be delayed to a later version if needed
15:35:12 ddorwin: correct - does not block the standards progress
15:35:30 paulc: wish there was a status for this
15:35:53 ... leave this on the list for now
15:36:03 ... GLenn please add your comment to the bug
15:36:13 Topic: [Bug 26332] Applications should only use EME APIs on secure origins (e.g. HTTPS)
15:36:24 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26332
15:36:34 paulc: seemed to be a consensus at last meeting to use RFC SHOULD
15:36:38 At the Jul 22 meeting we agreed that recommending that HTTPS SHOULD be used was a possible consensus position. Jerry offered to add a comment to the bug.
15:36:44 q+
15:36:46 ... not a requirement
15:36:52 ack markw
15:36:54 ... since you were not there -- put back on the queue
15:36:56 markw:
15:37:24 markw: don't recall that concensus, don't think this is specific to EME, this is general to all web apps
15:37:29 ... should not be just for our spec
15:37:42 jdsmith: don't know about concensus, but we did make that statement
15:37:57 ... not sure we've all agreed that's appropriate
15:38:10 Jul 22 minutes: http://www.w3.org/2014/07/22-html-media-minutes.html#item07
15:39:01 ddorwin: this was not last mtg
15:39:29 Jul 22 minutes reference: http://www.w3.org/2014/07/29-html-media-minutes.html#item10
15:39:48 s/Jul 22/Jul 29/
15:40:07 paulc: so Mark you are not convinced this should be a statement?
15:40:20 markw: yes I don't think this should be a normative statement
15:40:56 See Jerry's comment https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26332#c18 and Mark's reply https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26332#c19
15:41:07 ... think people we concerned about identifiers, we have some text about that already. HTTPS might be one of the mitigaters but should not go so far as normative language
15:41:43 ddorwin: this is pretty much what we know, the difference is that this exposes a permanent or semi-permanent identifier. Will continue to be discussion in and out of bug
15:42:02 s/we concerned/were concerned/
15:42:37 paulc: this is the only bug that shows up on social media streams, personal issue maybe even public policy issue
15:42:42 ... but not sure how to resolve it
15:42:55 q+
15:43:01 ... reluctant to leave it open so we can make progress
15:43:10 ... what will change folks opinion here?
15:43:30 q-
15:43:31 ddorwin: this bug has only been open a month, think its fine to leave it open a while
15:43:56 paulc: If we can't get concensus by end of August lets revisit
15:44:19 glenn: Cox would like to oppose making that change. Think its an application/policy issue
15:44:32 Topic: [Bug 26401] Key message destinationURL usage is not reflected in examples
15:44:39 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26401
15:44:47 joesteele: I have not updated the bug as yet
15:45:17 ... will follow up on this this week
15:45:25 Topic: Bug 26207 - Provide a way to check system capabilities required for UHD playback
15:45:34 paulc: Jerry was going to provide more data
15:46:05 jdsmith: don't remember the extra data, but there has been a lot of discussion
15:46:17 See http://www.w3.org/2014/07/29-html-media-minutes.html#item12
15:46:35 From the minutes: "jdsmith: yes that is on our list, we considered testing a small piece of content. Will have more data next week"
15:46:53 jdsmith: think it is unnatural to require apps to remember the session
15:47:12 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26207#c5
15:47:14 jdsmith: skipped ahead --
15:47:32 ... I have added a comment and would like to resolve that bug (26207)
15:47:50 ... concensus that addressing the broader set of capabilities is outside scope of EME
15:48:08 .. that leaves pre-testing for certain conditions, but don't have the information yet
15:48:28 ... should not leave bug open while we wait for results there, if something changes we can re-open
15:48:36 ... closed it this morning
15:48:44 paulc: any objections to this?
15:49:09 jdmith: as RESOLVED FIXED, but no changes
15:49:23 paulc: WORKSFORME sounds good
15:49:45 ... add a comment as to exactly why this is being resolved that way
15:50:04 Topic: Do we need LoadSession?
15:50:15 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Aug/0004.html
15:50:23 paulc: best summary statement
15:50:41 ... Joe is asking for feedback, gave some himself
15:50:49 ... how should we proceed?
15:50:52 +1
15:50:54 +q
15:50:59 ack joe
15:51:32 Joe: Looking for Jerry's feedback and feedback from other providers
15:51:49 ... Maybe I am wrong but it does not work well for my situation
15:52:00 ... I feel this is overkill for the situation
15:53:15 jdsmith: there may be a need in this area to allow for different CDM behavior, know that is not popular
15:53:34 ... right now loadSession is optional, might not be a value-add for Playready, trying to model this
15:53:50 ... feel like it is more natural for persistent licenses to be re-used automatically
15:53:52 q+
15:54:05 ack dd
15:54:06 ... that does not seem like a good fit
15:54:27 ddorwin: from Jerry and Joe would like the use cases or app models where persistent licenses are used
15:54:41 ... not clear why persistent licenses are used in all cases
15:54:58 ... would like to know the different models
15:55:19 ... people have said they would like to re-use on createSession -- would like that to be more concrete
15:55:24 q+
15:55:30 ack joe
15:56:16 q+
15:56:29 ack dd
15:57:22 joesteele: will provide the links to my earlier comments on this
15:57:29 ddorwin: documentation would be good
15:57:41 Topic: EME Use cases wiki
15:57:44 https://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/Media_Task_Force/EME_Use_Cases
15:57:58 - joesteele: the Key Release section will change still
15:58:26 joesteele: The Key Release section has not changed because it is dependant on the loadSession discussion
15:58:29 - paulc: maybe send an email making the connection between the bugs and the use cases to draw interest from the group
15:58:40 paulc: we also discussed linking the bugs back to the use cases
15:58:52 joesteele: that has not been done yet either
15:59:21 Notes from Joe and Paul are from Jul 29 minutes: http://www.w3.org/2014/07/29-html-media-minutes.html#item14
15:59:32 paulc: so those items are pending
15:59:40 Topic: Timing, Scibr, Chair for next meeting
16:00:01 q+
16:00:01 paulc: two outstanidng MSE bugs -- asked editors for feedback
16:00:09 ... would like to put test suite on the next agenda
16:00:20 ... then follow with EME status
16:00:29 s/outstanidng/outstanding/
16:00:37 s/Scibr/Scribe/
16:00:54 paulc: still waiting for information from poll on the test suite, need information for CR
16:00:55 ack dd
16:01:19 ddorwin: FYI -- I will fix a few bugs we discussed today and then start the move to ReSpec
16:01:25 ... spec may look ugly for awhile
16:01:34 paulc: before or after heartbeat?
16:01:39 ddorwin: aftre
16:01:49 s/aftre/after/
16:02:12 paulc: sent a note that suggested we update the latest page as it is getting stale
16:02:31 ... David will do this first. Couple of bugs pending this reorg right?
16:02:34