IRC log of wai-wcag on 2014-08-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:40:37 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
14:40:37 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/08/05-wai-wcag-irc
14:40:39 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs public
14:40:41 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
14:40:41 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 20 minutes
14:40:42 [trackbot]: Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
14:40:42 [trackbot]: Date: 05 August 2014
14:40:57 [AWK]: Agenda+ discussion on LC-2912 (https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140306/2912)
14:41:14 [Joshue]: zakim, agenda?
14:41:14 [Zakim]: I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
14:41:15 [Zakim]: 7. Alistair’s technique - https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Creating_a_conforming_alternate_version_for_a_responsive_web_page_designed_with_progressive_enhancement [from AWK]
14:41:15 [Zakim]: 8. Survey - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20140805/ [from AWK]
14:41:15 [Zakim]: 9. discussion on LC-2912 (https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140306/2912) [from AWK]
14:41:24 [AWK]: agenda+ New windows, links, and 3.2.2
14:41:29 [AWK]: Zakim, agenda?
14:41:29 [Zakim]: I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
14:41:30 [Zakim]: 7. Alistair’s technique - https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Creating_a_conforming_alternate_version_for_a_responsive_web_page_designed_with_progressive_enhancement [from AWK]
14:41:30 [Zakim]: 8. Survey - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20140805/ [from AWK]
14:41:30 [Zakim]: 9. discussion on LC-2912 (https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140306/2912) [from AWK]
14:41:30 [Zakim]: 10. New windows, links, and 3.2.2 [from AWK]
14:41:32 [Joshue]: agenda+ ISSUES and ACTIONS walkthrough
14:42:10 [Joshue]: Chair: Joshue
14:42:44 [AWK]: Regrets+ Jonathan_Avila
14:53:16 [bbailey]: bbailey has joined #wai-wcag
14:54:09 [Zakim]: WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has now started
14:54:16 [Wilco]: Wilco has joined #wai-wcag
14:54:16 [Zakim]: +AWK
14:54:26 [AWK]: zakim, who is on the phone?\
14:54:26 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'who is on the phone?\', AWK
14:54:29 [AWK]: zakim, who is on the phone?
14:54:29 [Zakim]: On the phone I see AWK
14:55:16 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
14:55:25 [Joshue]: zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue
14:55:25 [Zakim]: +Joshue; got it
14:58:40 [AWK]: zakim, who is on the phone?
14:58:41 [Zakim]: On the phone I see AWK, Joshue
14:59:07 [Mike_Elledge]: Mike_Elledge has joined #wai-wcag
14:59:11 [Zakim]: +Sailesh_Panchang
14:59:39 [Zakim]: +David_MacDonald
14:59:52 [Zakim]: +Mike_Elledge
15:00:27 [David]: David has joined #wai-wcag
15:00:32 [marcjohlic]: marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
15:01:25 [Zakim]: +??P28
15:01:26 [Sailesh]: Sailesh has joined #wai-wcag
15:01:36 [Wilco]: zakim, I am +??P28
15:01:36 [Zakim]: sorry, Wilco, I do not see a party named '+??P28'
15:01:42 [AWK]: zakim, who is on the phone?
15:01:42 [Zakim]: On the phone I see AWK, Joshue, Sailesh_Panchang, David_MacDonald, Mike_Elledge, ??P28
15:01:55 [Wilco]: zakim, I am P28
15:01:55 [Zakim]: sorry, Wilco, I do not see a party named 'P28'
15:01:58 [Zakim]: +Marc_Johlic
15:02:16 [Joshue]: zakim, ??P28 is Wilco
15:02:16 [Zakim]: +Wilco; got it
15:02:25 [AWK]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List
15:03:56 [AWK]: scribe: wilco
15:04:01 [Zakim]: +??P29
15:04:22 [AWK]: Zakim, agenda?
15:04:22 [Zakim]: I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
15:04:24 [Zakim]: 7. Alistair’s technique - https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Creating_a_conforming_alternate_version_for_a_responsive_web_page_designed_with_progressive_enhancement [from AWK]
15:04:24 [Zakim]: 8. Survey - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20140805/ [from AWK]
15:04:24 [Zakim]: 9. discussion on LC-2912 (https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140306/2912) [from AWK]
15:04:24 [Zakim]: 10. New windows, links, and 3.2.2 [from AWK]
15:04:28 [Zakim]: 11. ISSUES and ACTIONS walkthrough [from Joshue]
15:04:28 [Zakim]: +Kenny
15:04:28 [Zakim]: +Bruce_Bailey
15:05:00 [Joshue]: zakim, agenda?
15:05:00 [Zakim]: I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
15:05:01 [Zakim]: 7. Alistair’s technique - https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Creating_a_conforming_alternate_version_for_a_responsive_web_page_designed_with_progressive_enhancement [from AWK]
15:05:01 [Zakim]: 8. Survey - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20140805/ [from AWK]
15:05:01 [Zakim]: 9. discussion on LC-2912 (https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140306/2912) [from AWK]
15:05:01 [Zakim]: 10. New windows, links, and 3.2.2 [from AWK]
15:05:03 [bbailey]: zakim, i am bruce
15:05:05 [Zakim]: 11. ISSUES and ACTIONS walkthrough [from Joshue]
15:05:05 [Zakim]: ok, bbailey, I now associate you with Bruce_Bailey
15:05:12 [Joshue]: zakim, take up item 11
15:05:12 [Zakim]: agendum 11. "ISSUES and ACTIONS walkthrough" taken up [from Joshue]
15:05:17 [Joshue]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/issues/37
15:05:42 [Wilco]: Josh: James suggested a usemap example
15:05:46 [Joshue]: ISSUE-37: Update of test procedure for F17
15:05:46 [trackbot]: Notes added to ISSUE-37 Update of test procedure for F17.
15:05:50 [Wilco]: ... did we deal with this yet?
15:06:37 [Wilco]: Andrew: There was a comment to this
15:06:47 [Wilco]: Josh: Leave it for now then
15:06:47 [Mike_Elledge_]: Mike_Elledge_ has joined #wai-wcag
15:07:44 [Joshue]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/issues/open
15:09:57 [Wilco]: Josh: Need to better annotate where we leave off.
15:10:10 [Joshue]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/open
15:10:36 [Joshue]: action-236
15:10:36 [trackbot]: action-236 -- Alastair Campbell to Provide live example for example 2 of http://www.w3.org/wai/gl/wiki/using_grouping_roles_to_identify_related_form_controls -- due 2013-12-24 -- OPEN
15:10:36 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/236
15:11:04 [Loretta]: Loretta has joined #wai-wcag
15:11:08 [Joshue]: action-236: Josh Pinged to ask if there was an update and he responded to say that he would do some more work on the technique
15:11:08 [trackbot]: Notes added to action-236 Provide live example for example 2 of http://www.w3.org/wai/gl/wiki/using_grouping_roles_to_identify_related_form_controls.
15:11:39 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
15:11:39 [Wilco]: ... Need a more fully formed example. Alastair offered to do that.
15:11:55 [Joshue]: action-230
15:11:55 [trackbot]: action-230 -- David MacDonald to Add example 3 from salish, see email to list -- due 2013-11-19 -- OPEN
15:11:56 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/230
15:12:16 [Loretta]: zakim IPcaller is Loretta
15:12:58 [Joshue]: action-230: David to contact Sailesh for more info
15:12:58 [trackbot]: Notes added to action-230 Add example 3 from salish, see email to list.
15:13:00 [Wilco]: David: I'll send Salish an e-mail after the call about this
15:13:15 [Wilco]: ... I think he had trouble putting it in so I offered to do so
15:13:19 [Joshue]: action-228
15:13:19 [trackbot]: action-228 -- Bruce Bailey to Work with david on creating clear list of edits for http://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-wcag2-techs/2012jan/0001.html -- due 2013-11-05 -- OPEN
15:13:19 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/228
15:13:42 [Joshue]: http://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-wcag2-techs/2012jan/0001.html
15:14:12 [Joshue]: action-228: Relates to data tables a11y, Bruce and David to liase
15:14:12 [trackbot]: Notes added to action-228 Work with david on creating clear list of edits for http://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-wcag2-techs/2012jan/0001.html.
15:14:14 [Wilco]: David: Need to get back on that
15:15:05 [Joshue]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/228
15:15:12 [Joshue]: http://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-wcag2-techs/2012jan/0001.html
15:15:36 [MichaelC]: ack me
15:16:39 [Wilco]: Michael: Action contains a broken link.
15:17:08 [MichaelC]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag2-techs/2012Jan/0001.html
15:17:45 [Wilco]: .. I think this is a case error
15:18:17 [Joshue]: action-227: Relates to data tables a11y, Bruce and David to liase
15:18:17 [trackbot]: Notes added to action-227 Work with david on creating clear list of edits for http://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-wcag2-techs/2013may/0001.html.
15:18:28 [Wilco]: Bruce: 227 & 228 might both relate to data tables
15:18:45 [bbailey]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag2-techs/2013May/0001.html
15:19:06 [bbailey]: Yes, 227/228 closely related
15:19:31 [MichaelC]: ack me
15:19:43 [Joshue]: action-217
15:19:43 [trackbot]: action-217 -- Michael Cooper to Clarify on wcag home page that participation in tfs counts to overall wg participation expectations -- due 2013-09-24 -- OPEN
15:19:43 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/217
15:19:49 [Wilco]: Michael: 217 has not been done I think
15:20:23 [Wilco]: ... will revisit this later.
15:20:31 [Joshue]: action-217: Michael to revisit as of 5th August
15:20:31 [trackbot]: Notes added to action-217 Clarify on wcag home page that participation in tfs counts to overall wg participation expectations.
15:20:33 [Wilco]: Josh: General call to everyone, please look if you have open actions.
15:21:05 [Joshue]: action-216
15:21:05 [trackbot]: action-216 -- Bruce Bailey to Draft possible failure for using role=heading without aria-level to represent a hierarchy of headings. -- due 2013-09-17 -- OPEN
15:21:05 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/216
15:21:18 [Joshue]: action-216: Bruce to revisit during August
15:21:18 [trackbot]: Notes added to action-216 Draft possible failure for using role=heading without aria-level to represent a hierarchy of headings..
15:21:29 [Wilco]: Bruce: 216 Hopefully in august I'll get caught up on these.
15:21:51 [Joshue]: action-213
15:21:51 [trackbot]: action-213 -- David MacDonald to Work on adding his additional knowledge about uses of level to this technique. -- due 2013-09-03 -- OPEN
15:21:51 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/213
15:22:44 [Wilco]: David: 213, probably one of those things... When we do our minutes, all make sure we get our action items.
15:22:51 [Wilco]: ... I'll go through the minutes for it.
15:24:02 [Wilco]: Loretta: 206 I have to go back, can't remember the discussion
15:24:06 [Joshue]: action-206: Loretta to revisit as of 5th August
15:24:07 [trackbot]: Notes added to action-206 Revise http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/F43:_Failure_of_Success_Criterion_1.3.1_due_to_using_structural_markup_in_a_way_that_does_not_represent_relationships_in_the_content.
15:24:25 [Joshue]: zakim, agenda?
15:24:25 [Zakim]: I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
15:24:26 [Zakim]: 7. Alistair’s technique - https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Creating_a_conforming_alternate_version_for_a_responsive_web_page_designed_with_progressive_enhancement [from AWK]
15:24:26 [Zakim]: 8. Survey - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20140805/ [from AWK]
15:24:26 [Zakim]: 9. discussion on LC-2912 (https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140306/2912) [from AWK]
15:24:26 [Zakim]: 10. New windows, links, and 3.2.2 [from AWK]
15:24:31 [Zakim]: 11. ISSUES and ACTIONS walkthrough [from Joshue]
15:24:42 [AWK]: zakim, who is on the phone?
15:24:42 [Zakim]: On the phone I see AWK, Joshue, Sailesh_Panchang (muted), David_MacDonald, Mike_Elledge, Wilco, Marc_Johlic, Michael_Cooper, Kenny (muted), Bruce_Bailey, [IPcaller]
15:25:20 [Wilco]: Josh: Let's leave it on the agenda until Alastair is on the call
15:25:54 [Wilco]: zakim, take up item 8
15:25:54 [Zakim]: agendum 8. "Survey - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20140805/" taken up [from AWK]
15:26:18 [MichaelC]: agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2014JulSep/0125.html
15:26:37 [MichaelC]: ack me
15:26:40 [Wilco]: Josh: Item 1, comment from Michael.
15:26:48 [AWK]: TOPIC: LC-2944: Placeholder text contrast
15:27:08 [Joshue]: https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20140724/2944
15:27:20 [Wilco]: Michael: Response is fine, question was if in general someone probably has the same question so I want to ask what we should do
15:27:55 [Wilco]: ... the commenter asked a question. Someone else may have that question. Should we also clarify the material, as a general rule?
15:28:44 [Wilco]: ... I'm asking if we should also edit the document.
15:29:13 [Wilco]: Marc: We should go for
15:29:33 [Joshue]: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/F30.html
15:29:39 [Joshue]: SC 1.4.1
15:30:03 [Joshue]: q?
15:30:08 [AWK]: http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/visual-audio-contrast-without-color.html
15:30:30 [Wilco]: David: Maybe add a sentence about placeholder text. Maybe "Placeholder text does qualify as text".
15:30:33 [AWK]: http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/visual-audio-contrast-contrast.html
15:30:50 [bbailey]: q+ to ask about inactive drop dows
15:31:24 [Wilco]: David: I'll take up the item
15:31:27 [Joshue]: ack bruce
15:31:27 [Zakim]: Bruce_Bailey, you wanted to ask about inactive drop dows
15:32:02 [Wilco]: Bruce: What's the rational for not having the requirement on inactive items?
15:32:35 [Joshue]: ACTION: David to draft new text for clarification on placeholder text a la 1.4.3
15:32:36 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-267 - Draft new text for clarification on placeholder text a la 1.4.3 [on David MacDonald - due 2014-08-12].
15:32:49 [Joshue]: action-267: https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20140724/2944
15:32:49 [trackbot]: Notes added to action-267 Draft new text for clarification on placeholder text a la 1.4.3.
15:32:53 [Wilco]: David: It was a concurrences, was not in there originally. Was negotiated for
15:33:14 [Joshue]: action-267: http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140408/G148
15:33:14 [trackbot]: Notes added to action-267 Draft new text for clarification on placeholder text a la 1.4.3.
15:33:31 [Joshue]: action-267: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/F30.html
15:33:31 [trackbot]: Notes added to action-267 Draft new text for clarification on placeholder text a la 1.4.3.
15:33:34 [Wilco]: Bruce: I think placeholder text is in the same state a lot of times
15:33:38 [Loretta]: q+
15:34:02 [Mike_Elledge]: q+
15:34:02 [AWK]: q+
15:34:03 [Joshue]: +q
15:34:06 [Wilco]: ... Sometimes it would be reasonable to say sometimes it is an inactive element, though obviously the field is editable
15:34:14 [Joshue]: ack Lor
15:34:43 [Wilco]: Loretta: The purpose is to provide information about the field. If people can't read it there is no point in having it there
15:35:09 [Joshue]: ack Mike
15:35:10 [Wilco]: ... I think it's not inactive. It must be perceivable.
15:35:36 [Wilco]: Mike: I agree with Loretta. It seems to me it's informative to completion of the task.
15:35:51 [AWK]: ack me
15:35:53 [Joshue]: ack AWK
15:36:26 [Joshue]: ack me
15:36:30 [Wilco]: Andrew: Agree with Loretta. Is it ok if you have the same text adjacent to it?
15:37:10 [Wilco]: Josh: Most people feel that it should be perceivable.
15:37:20 [Wilco]: David: I'll be glad to take the action
15:37:44 [bbailey]: q+
15:38:05 [Joshue]: ack bruce
15:38:11 [Wilco]: Josh: Add these notes to the action
15:39:20 [AWK]: q+
15:39:36 [Wilco]: Michael: If we take an action we can't finish the comment now. Maybe improve the wording.
15:39:50 [Joshue]: ack awk
15:40:42 [Wilco]: Andrew: We don't have to tell we are going to do something. We answer the question.
15:41:13 [Wilco]: Josh: I prefer to have the action
15:41:40 [Wilco]: Michael: Don't close the comment before the action is finished
15:42:07 [Wilco]: Josh: Leave the action open
15:42:43 [Joshue]: q?
15:42:57 [David]: The minimum contrast success criterion (1.4.3) applies to text in the page, and placeholder text is text in the page. If used, placeholder text needs to provide sufficient contrast in order to avoid a 1.4.3 failure.
15:43:58 [Mike_Elledge]: q+
15:44:08 [Wilco]: Marc: Maybe say "informative placeholder text"?
15:44:13 [Joshue]: ack Mike
15:44:39 [Wilco]: Mike: Maybe "Unless the information is provided somewhere else?"
15:45:51 [Wilco]: Josh: I think it may be confusing to say "informative"
15:46:10 [AWK]: I'd like to remove "in order to avoid a 1.4.3 failure" from the suggested note text.
15:46:29 [Wilco]: Mike: It may be redundant if the placeholder text is elsewhere.
15:47:25 [Wilco]: Josh: I don't know if we need to be that strict
15:47:39 [Joshue]: The minimum contrast success criterion (1.4.3) applies to text in the page, and placeholder text is text in the page. If used, placeholder text needs to provide sufficient contrast
15:47:46 [Joshue]: +1
15:48:00 [Mike_Elledge]: +1
15:48:37 [Wilco]: David: Andrew's suggestion is fine
15:48:42 [bbailey]: +1
15:49:09 [Wilco]: RESOLUTION: LC-2944 Accepted as amended
15:49:58 [Joshue]: https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20140724/2944
15:50:38 [Wilco]: RESOLUTION: Updated LC-2944 Accepted as amended
15:52:32 [Wilco]: s/RESOLUTION: LC-2944 Accepted as amended/RESOLUTION: Updated to understanding document 1.4.3/
15:52:42 [David]: http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/visual-audio-contrast-contrast.html
15:53:33 [Wilco]: Josh: go to item 5
15:54:06 [Joshue]: LC-2941: Social Media Buttons
15:54:07 [AWK]: TOPIC: LC-2941: Social Media Buttons
15:54:13 [Joshue]: https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/REC-WCAG20-20081211/2941
15:55:27 [Wilco]: Andrew: If you can please do "TOPIC colon ITEM"
15:56:30 [Wilco]: Josh: Loretta made a point about conformance to level A
15:57:13 [Wilco]: Loretta: We might want to add some of that text to the response.
15:59:43 [Wilco]: ... I'm wondering if partial conformance could be a solution for such problem
16:00:49 [Wilco]: Josh: Is this a common pattern for social media sites?
16:01:00 [Wilco]: ... He's wondering if partial conformance can be applied to these sites
16:01:27 [Wilco]: ... In the reply Andrew makes the point that not all do this.
16:01:32 [AWK]: q+
16:01:45 [Wilco]: ... What do we need to say to that?
16:01:53 [AWK]: ack me
16:02:16 [Wilco]: Andrew: I added a middle paragraph
16:03:14 [Wilco]: Josh: So the answer is that partial conformance can apply but you do fail WCAG
16:03:19 [Joshue]: zakim, queue?
16:03:19 [Zakim]: I see no one on the speaker queue
16:03:42 [Mike_Elledge]: +1
16:03:45 [Wilco]: Loretta: Response looks good
16:04:40 [Wilco]: Josh: Christoph mentions that there are alternatives to the button. Andrew already mentions this
16:04:54 [Wilco]: RESOLUTION: LC-2941 Accepted as amended
16:04:55 [Joshue]: TOPIC: LC-2909: Headings at Each Section of Content to Meet SC 2.4.1?
16:05:13 [Joshue]: LC-2909
16:05:24 [Joshue]: https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20140306/2909
16:06:14 [Wilco]: Josh: I thought Andrew made a connection with the Jaws issue, but no
16:06:52 [Wilco]: Sailesh: It addresses my response
16:08:08 [Wilco]: ... my concern is that if you insert a heading where there is none, as an off screen heading, that is not for 1.3.1 or 2.3.1
16:08:22 [Wilco]: ... In that case H42 kicks in.
16:08:39 [Wilco]: ... Inserting a heading only for skipping that would be more then the criterion requires.
16:08:41 [AWK]: q+
16:08:53 [Wilco]: ... and an off screen heading is a CSS technique, not HTML
16:09:18 [Joshue]: ack awk
16:09:25 [Joshue]: zakim, mute me
16:09:25 [Zakim]: Joshue should now be muted
16:09:54 [Wilco]: Andrew: I intend for the heading to be visible. I don't think you pass 2.4.10 with invisible headings
16:10:40 [Wilco]: ... H69 is sufficient for 2.4.9 and can also be for 2.4.10. But invisible headings don't allow you to meet 2.4.10
16:11:33 [Joshue]: ack me
16:11:35 [Joshue]: q?
16:11:48 [Wilco]: Sailesh: Only 2.4.10 requires visible headings
16:12:03 [Wilco]: Andrew: I don't think you can meet 2.4.1 with off screen headers either
16:12:56 [Wilco]: Sailesh: If there has to be a technique to navigate having it would have to be an off screen heading
16:14:23 [Wilco]: ... on one hand you argue that you can have 2.4.1 and 2.4.10 together. You can do H69 to meet 2.4.1
16:14:58 [Wilco]: Josh: Headings are a well established way. You shouldn't insert headings just to bypass blocks, doesn't make sense
16:15:52 [Wilco]: Mike: Underlying question is if having a heading is right. It is supposed to precede a section. There is other way to bypass content
16:16:05 [Wilco]: ... it may be an incorrect way to use a heading.
16:17:16 [Wilco]: Loretta: People shouldn't think they have to put headings everywhere
16:17:45 [Wilco]: Josh: We need to make it clear that you don't need to add headings because there are other ways
16:18:19 [Wilco]: Sailesh: I can work on a new technique for that.
16:18:51 [AWK]: q+
16:19:10 [Wilco]: .. If you use H42 that follows a repetitive block, it can meet 2.4.1
16:19:59 [Wilco]: Loretta: I don't think it's hard to combine those
16:20:12 [Wilco]: ... This is off the track from the current issue
16:20:40 [Joshue]: q?
16:20:45 [Joshue]: ack awk
16:20:55 [Joshue]: zakim, mute me
16:20:55 [Zakim]: Joshue should now be muted
16:21:15 [Joshue]: ack me
16:21:31 [Wilco]: Andrew: I think for H42 you just have to mark up text that are headings. They could ocure prior to sections to jump over. You can pass H42 without meeting 2.4.1
16:22:41 [Joshue]: q?
16:23:10 [Wilco]: Andrew: The techniques cover more ground separate then together
16:23:31 [Wilco]: Josh: Developers look at WCAG different then we do.
16:23:50 [Wilco]: ... Suggest leaving the idea of merging the H42 and H69
16:24:08 [AWK]: Does anyone else on the group feel that we should merge H69 and H42?
16:25:39 [Joshue]: zakim, mute me
16:25:39 [Zakim]: Joshue should now be muted
16:26:06 [Wilco]: Andrew: We probably won't create a new technique in the next few weeks. I suggest we modify this technique so that it covers 2.4.1 and 2.4.10
16:26:27 [Joshue]: ack me
16:26:29 [Wilco]: ... We can make a technique just for 2.4.1. Then split H69 out later on
16:27:10 [Wilco]: Josh: Right, that would incrementally improve the techniques
16:27:38 [Wilco]: Sailesh: i don't understand how to have a technique for just 2.4.1
16:27:49 [Joshue]: zakim, mute me
16:27:49 [Zakim]: Joshue should now be muted
16:28:31 [Joshue]: <discussion continues>
16:28:47 [Zakim]: -Wilco
16:29:35 [Joshue]: zakim, list attendees
16:29:35 [Zakim]: As of this point the attendees have been AWK, Joshue, Sailesh_Panchang, David_MacDonald, Mike_Elledge, Marc_Johlic, Wilco, Michael_Cooper, Kenny, Bruce_Bailey, [IPcaller]
16:30:15 [Joshue]: Next week take up from Item 4 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20140805/results#xlc2944
16:30:35 [Joshue]: ack me
16:31:26 [AWK]: Are we going to call for acceptance on 2909?
16:33:20 [Mike_Elledge]: +1
16:33:36 [Joshue]: RESOLUTION: LC 2909 accepted as ammended, Sailesh expressed concern
16:34:20 [Zakim]: -Michael_Cooper
16:34:20 [Mike_Elledge]: bye! Have a good vacation!
16:34:21 [Joshue]: rrsagent, draft minutes
16:34:21 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/08/05-wai-wcag-minutes.html Joshue
16:34:21 [Zakim]: -AWK
16:34:22 [Zakim]: -David_MacDonald
16:34:23 [Zakim]: -Bruce_Bailey
16:34:24 [Zakim]: -Mike_Elledge
16:34:25 [AWK]: s/ammended/amended
16:34:25 [Zakim]: -Sailesh_Panchang
16:34:29 [Zakim]: -[IPcaller]
16:34:33 [Zakim]: -Marc_Johlic
16:34:34 [Zakim]: -Joshue
16:34:39 [Zakim]: -Kenny
16:34:40 [Zakim]: WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has ended
16:34:40 [Zakim]: Attendees were AWK, Joshue, Sailesh_Panchang, David_MacDonald, Mike_Elledge, Marc_Johlic, Wilco, Michael_Cooper, Kenny, Bruce_Bailey, [IPcaller]
16:34:42 [AWK]: Trackbot, end meeting
16:34:42 [trackbot]: Zakim, list attendees
16:34:42 [Zakim]: sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
16:34:50 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:34:50 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/08/05-wai-wcag-minutes.html trackbot