IRC log of dnt on 2014-07-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:49:36 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dnt
15:49:36 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/07/30-dnt-irc
15:49:38 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
15:49:40 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be TRACK
15:49:40 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see T&S_Track(dnt)12:00PM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
15:49:41 [trackbot]
Meeting: Tracking Protection Working Group Teleconference
15:49:41 [trackbot]
Date: 30 July 2014
15:53:40 [npdoty]
chair: justin
15:54:35 [npdoty]
regrets+ johnsimpson, sidstamm, chris_m, dsinger, schunter
15:57:26 [JackHobaugh]
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15:58:10 [eberkower]
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15:58:46 [fielding]
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15:59:06 [Zakim]
T&S_Track(dnt)12:00PM has now started
15:59:14 [Zakim]
+Jack_Hobaugh
15:59:20 [Zakim]
+hefferjr
15:59:25 [Zakim]
+Fielding
15:59:33 [Zakim]
+Carl_Cargill
15:59:39 [Carl_Cargill]
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16:00:11 [WaltMichel]
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16:00:18 [Zakim]
+Wendy
16:00:40 [Zakim]
+eberkower
16:00:59 [eberkower]
Zakim, please mute me
16:01:00 [Zakim]
eberkower should now be muted
16:01:11 [Zakim]
+WaltMichel
16:01:15 [Zakim]
+npdoty
16:01:19 [kulick]
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16:01:28 [justin]
justin has joined #dnt
16:01:50 [Zakim]
+justin
16:02:11 [justin]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:02:11 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Jack_Hobaugh, hefferjr, Fielding, Carl_Cargill, Wendy, eberkower (muted), WaltMichel, npdoty, justin
16:02:30 [moneill2]
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16:02:39 [vinay]
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16:02:47 [npdoty]
scribenick: npdoty
16:02:51 [Zakim]
+Chris_Pedigo
16:03:00 [npdoty]
justin: short call
16:03:04 [ChrisPedigoOPA]
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16:03:09 [Zakim]
+RichardWeaver
16:03:12 [Zakim]
+vinay
16:03:12 [npdoty]
justin: next week we want to take up the market research / audience measurement
16:03:32 [Richard_comScore]
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16:03:34 [npdoty]
... authors comfortable with their existing proposal, take up that discussion starting next week
16:03:44 [Zakim]
+kulick
16:03:52 [WileyS]
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16:03:53 [npdoty]
... the week of August 10th, no call as at least all the chairs are on vacation
16:04:18 [npdoty]
... only a handful of issues still to deal with. will send around another potential batch closing email
16:04:28 [Zakim]
+WileyS
16:04:40 [npdoty]
... will send around, just let us know if you don't want any of those closed
16:04:47 [npdoty]
topic: "tracking" in compliance
16:04:50 [npdoty]
issue-203?
16:04:50 [trackbot]
issue-203 -- Use of "tracking" in third-party compliance -- open
16:04:50 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/issues/203
16:04:53 [adrianba]
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16:05:10 [npdoty]
justin: discussed previously. fielding working on a proposal for restructuring
16:05:15 [Zakim]
+ +1.323.253.aaaa
16:05:16 [npdoty]
... should have that for us next week
16:05:17 [npdoty]
q+
16:05:37 [fielding]
ack npdoty
16:05:53 [Ari]
Ari has joined #dnt
16:05:54 [wseltzer]
npdoty: I made the changes to the compliance document
16:05:56 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
16:06:07 [adrianba]
zakim, [Microsoft] is me
16:06:07 [Zakim]
+adrianba; got it
16:06:08 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
16:06:09 [wseltzer]
... when you are tracking/not tracking, qualifiers, examples
16:06:12 [justin]
npdoty: I've updated the spec to include TSVs along with examples in the different subsections.
16:06:14 [robsherman]
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16:06:23 [moneill2]
zakim, [IPCaller] is me
16:06:24 [Zakim]
+moneill2; got it
16:06:49 [Zakim]
+robsherman
16:07:17 [npdoty]
justin: look at what npdoty has done, though expect it doesn't address fielding's issue
16:07:20 [justin]
q?
16:07:38 [npdoty]
topic: issue-97 link shorteners
16:07:43 [justin]
https://www.w3.org/wiki/Privacy/TPWG/Change_Proposals_on_link_shorteners_and_ID_providers
16:07:51 [Zakim]
+[FTC]
16:08:06 [npdoty]
justin: have a consolidated proposal from walter, mike and nick
16:08:10 [npdoty]
... document is currently silent
16:08:25 [vincent]
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16:08:27 [justin]
q?
16:08:29 [npdoty]
... less specific to url shorteners exactly
16:08:37 [npdoty]
... any questions or concerns about that language?
16:08:53 [npdoty]
... unless there are any friendly amendments
16:09:02 [npdoty]
... would go to a Call for Objections on that tonight
16:09:10 [justin]
q?
16:09:20 [npdoty]
... feel free to send comments to the list, if any adjustments should be made
16:09:20 [Zakim]
+vincent
16:09:25 [npdoty]
topic: deidentification
16:09:32 [justin]
https://www.w3.org/wiki/Privacy/TPWG/Change_Proposal_Deidentification
16:10:15 [npdoty]
justin: sadly, we don't have dsinger on the call today. not sure yet about how to merge with roy's
16:10:56 [npdoty]
... two seem firm. article 29 proposal from vincent; expert review/safe harbor from jack
16:11:13 [npdoty]
... not sure yet about merging david and roy
16:11:23 [justin]
q?
16:11:36 [npdoty]
... maybe that would also satisfy proposers from EFF (heard from Lee)
16:11:39 [npdoty]
q+
16:11:53 [Zakim]
+Brooks
16:11:55 [Brooks]
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16:12:30 [npdoty]
ack npdoty
16:12:39 [fielding]
maybe definitions for identified, de-identified, re-identified, and anonymous?
16:12:54 [moneill2]
+q
16:12:54 [vincent]
is it similar to the green/yellow/red states?
16:13:31 [colsen]
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16:13:46 [npdoty]
npdoty: suggestion of having two terms, "deidentified" and "aggregate", where deidentified requires the three-step contract requirement but aggregate doesn't because it's so far from being identifiable, like "50%"
16:13:49 [WileyS]
"Linked" is debatable in the Yellow State
16:14:09 [justin]
ack mon
16:14:40 [npdoty]
justin: is there a similarity to previous red/yellow/green proposals about which can be released and which wouldn't
16:15:09 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
16:15:17 [walter]
zakim, ipcaller is me
16:15:17 [Zakim]
+walter; got it
16:15:30 [Zakim]
+[FTC.a]
16:16:21 [npdoty]
justin: test for "deidentified" (in dsinger proposal or current text) already. even aggregate numbers can enable reidentification
16:16:55 [npdoty]
moneill2: if you delete the data and only return the count of scottish people, then there should be no reidentification concern
16:17:19 [npdoty]
justin: just saying "aggregate" doesn't solve the problem (like small groups)
16:17:34 [npdoty]
... would be interested in the exact terms of the text proposal for this super-de-identified state
16:17:55 [justin]
q?
16:18:35 [WileyS]
We could have an entire working group on deidentification - we're going too deep here. Not that its not needed, but too large an issue to solve here.
16:19:16 [npdoty]
justin: encourage people to talk more on the list and develop one or two more consolidated proposals
16:19:44 [justin]
q?
16:19:47 [WileyS]
I would recommend we stay high-level (like Roy's proposal) and drill down into the details in another forum/pass/working group.
16:19:52 [fielding]
I have not seen any example given where the data could be re-identified after it meets my proposed definition, since that would imply it does not meet my definition. ;-)
16:20:13 [justin]
https://www.w3.org/wiki/Privacy/TPWG/Change_Proposal_Remove_personalization_prohibition
16:20:17 [npdoty]
... per Shane, this can be a very complicated area. argument might be for a simpler description in our text
16:20:21 [npdoty]
topic: Personalization
16:21:21 [npdoty]
justin: personalization proposals last summer, perhaps related to lack of confidence in the signal issue, to imply that some personalization is allowed even when a DNT signal is present
16:21:40 [npdoty]
... is there a proposal to include a "trackless advertising" term in the document?
16:22:06 [npdoty]
... if that's the intent, it would be good to clarify these proposals
16:22:33 [npdoty]
... there was a lot of discussion about that last summer [issue-215]
16:22:43 [justin]
q?
16:22:52 [npdoty]
q+
16:23:56 [Chapell]
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16:23:58 [npdoty]
ack npdoty
16:24:39 [npdoty]
npdoty: is the intent to just clarify editorially where restrictions are present? or a change from what the current text currently prohibits?
16:24:59 [Zakim]
+Chapell
16:25:34 [justin]
q?
16:26:20 [npdoty]
justin: it might be that 236 is that sort of editorial thing, and that 234 is the intent for removing personalization prohibition
16:26:29 [npdoty]
JackHobaugh: yeah, that sounds right
16:26:56 [npdoty]
justin: will send email, don't need edits yet
16:27:09 [npdoty]
topic: wrap-up
16:27:21 [justin]
q?
16:27:23 [npdoty]
justin: decision about data append was announced, but text needs to be sent around before next week
16:27:27 [Zakim]
-[FTC.a]
16:27:30 [npdoty]
... quick call. anything else to discuss?
16:27:35 [Zakim]
-RichardWeaver
16:27:36 [Zakim]
- +1.323.253.aaaa
16:27:36 [Zakim]
-hefferjr
16:27:37 [Zakim]
-adrianba
16:27:37 [Zakim]
-[FTC]
16:27:38 [Zakim]
-Chris_Pedigo
16:27:38 [Zakim]
-Brooks
16:27:38 [Zakim]
-justin
16:27:38 [Zakim]
-Jack_Hobaugh
16:27:39 [Zakim]
-moneill2
16:27:39 [Zakim]
-vinay
16:27:40 [Zakim]
-npdoty
16:27:40 [Zakim]
-robsherman
16:27:42 [Zakim]
-Chapell
16:27:42 [Zakim]
-Carl_Cargill
16:27:43 [Zakim]
-walter
16:27:43 [Zakim]
-vincent
16:27:43 [Zakim]
-kulick
16:27:44 [Zakim]
-Wendy
16:27:44 [Zakim]
-WileyS
16:28:01 [npdoty]
Zakim, list attendees
16:28:01 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Jack_Hobaugh, hefferjr, Fielding, Carl_Cargill, Wendy, eberkower, WaltMichel, npdoty, justin, Chris_Pedigo, RichardWeaver, vinay, kulick,
16:28:04 [Zakim]
... WileyS, +1.323.253.aaaa, adrianba, moneill2, robsherman, [FTC], vincent, Brooks, walter, Chapell
16:28:09 [npdoty]
rrsagent, please draft the minutes
16:28:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/30-dnt-minutes.html npdoty
16:28:20 [Zakim]
-WaltMichel
16:28:30 [npdoty]
Zakim, bye
16:28:30 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Jack_Hobaugh, hefferjr, Fielding, Carl_Cargill, Wendy, eberkower, WaltMichel, npdoty, justin, Chris_Pedigo, RichardWeaver, vinay,
16:28:30 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #dnt
16:28:33 [Zakim]
... kulick, WileyS, +1.323.253.aaaa, adrianba, moneill2, robsherman, [FTC], vincent, Brooks, walter, Chapell
16:28:34 [npdoty]
RRSAgent, bye
16:28:34 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items