IRC log of wai-wcag on 2014-07-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:55:38 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
14:55:38 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/07/29-wai-wcag-irc
14:55:40 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs public
14:55:40 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #wai-wcag
14:55:42 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
14:55:42 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot, I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM already started
14:55:43 [trackbot]: Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
14:55:43 [trackbot]: Date: 29 July 2014
14:55:52 [AWK]: Chair: AWK
14:55:54 [AWK]: Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:55:55 [Zakim]: On the phone I see +1.415.832.aaaa
14:56:12 [AWK]: Zakim, aaaa is AWK
14:56:13 [Zakim]: +AWK; got it
14:56:17 [AWK]: Zakim, Agenda?
14:56:17 [Zakim]: I see nothing on the agenda
14:56:49 [AWK]: agenda+ Mobile TF update
14:57:09 [AWK]: agenda+ finish issues from last week's call
14:57:19 [AWK]: agenda+ ISSUES and ACTION walkthrough
14:57:28 [AWK]: agenda+ Keydates for working group publication cycles
14:57:39 [AWK]: agenda+ Overview of the new specification branch.
14:57:48 [Zakim]: +Kathy_Wahlbin
14:57:53 [AWK]: agenda+ Feedback needed on ERT WG new Developers' Guide to Features of Web Accessibility Evaluation Tools document Survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/29thAugust2014
15:00:01 [AWK]: Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:00:02 [Zakim]: On the phone I see AWK, Kathy_Wahlbin
15:00:03 [Zakim]: +David_MacDonald
15:00:46 [Zakim]: +Mike_Elledge
15:01:33 [David]: David has joined #wai-wcag
15:01:37 [Zakim]: +??P19
15:02:19 [AWK]: Regrets+ James Nurthen, Wilco Fiers, Sailesh Panchang, Jonathan Avila, Barry Johnson
15:03:51 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
15:03:57 [Joshue108]: zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue
15:03:57 [Zakim]: +Joshue; got it
15:04:03 [Joshue108]: zakim, who is on the phone
15:04:03 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'who is on the phone', Joshue108
15:04:09 [Joshue108]: zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:09 [Zakim]: On the phone I see AWK, Kathy_Wahlbin, David_MacDonald, Mike_Elledge, Michael_Cooper, Joshue
15:04:43 [Joshue108]: zakim, mute me
15:04:43 [Zakim]: Joshue should now be muted
15:05:00 [Zakim]: +Bruce_Bailey
15:05:18 [bbailey]: bbailey has joined #wai-wcag
15:05:20 [Mike_Elledge]: Mike_Elledge has joined #wai-wcag
15:05:38 [bbailey]: zakim, this is bruce
15:05:38 [Zakim]: sorry, bbailey, I do not see a conference named 'bruce' in progress or scheduled at this time
15:05:45 [bbailey]: zakim, i am bruce
15:05:45 [Zakim]: ok, bbailey, I now associate you with Bruce_Bailey
15:05:53 [Joshue108]: zakim, agenda?
15:05:53 [Zakim]: I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
15:05:54 [Zakim]: 1. Mobile TF update [from AWK]
15:05:54 [Zakim]: 2. finish issues from last week's call [from AWK]
15:05:54 [Zakim]: 3. ISSUES and ACTION walkthrough [from AWK]
15:05:54 [Zakim]: 4. Keydates for working group publication cycles [from AWK]
15:05:54 [Zakim]: 5. Overview of the new specification branch. [from AWK]
15:05:55 [Zakim]: 6. Feedback needed on ERT WG new Developers' Guide to Features of Web Accessibility Evaluation Tools document Survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/29thAugust2014 [from AWK]
15:06:19 [Joshue108]: ack me
15:06:20 [Zakim]: +Kenny
15:06:23 [AWK]: Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:06:24 [Zakim]: On the phone I see AWK, Kathy_Wahlbin, David_MacDonald, Mike_Elledge, Michael_Cooper, Joshue, Bruce_Bailey, Kenny (muted)
15:07:18 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
15:07:33 [AWK]: Scribe: Mike_Elledge
15:07:42 [Joshue108]: zakim, mute me
15:07:42 [Zakim]: Joshue should now be muted
15:07:46 [Zakim]: +Cooper
15:08:28 [Joshue108]: ack me
15:08:31 [Zakim]: -Michael_Cooper
15:08:39 [Loretta]: Loretta has joined #wai-wcag
15:09:19 [Mike_Elledge]: J: Feel free to interrupt and ask questions.
15:09:32 [AWK]: Zakim, take up agenda item 1`
15:09:32 [Zakim]: 'item\ 1\`' does not match any agenda item, AWK
15:09:34 [AWK]: Zakim, take up agenda item 1
15:09:34 [Zakim]: 'item\ 1' does not match any agenda item, AWK
15:09:40 [Joshue108]: zakim, next item
15:09:40 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "Mobile TF update" taken up [from AWK]
15:09:41 [AWK]: Zakim, take up item 1
15:09:41 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "Mobile TF update" taken up [from AWK]
15:09:51 [Joshue108]: zakim, mute me
15:09:51 [Zakim]: Joshue should now be muted
15:09:54 [Mike_Elledge]: Mobile TF UPDATE:
15:10:09 [AWK]: TOPIC: Mobile TF Update
15:10:17 [Mike_Elledge]: TOPIC: Mobile TF Updaet
15:10:38 [AWK]: s/updaet/update
15:11:17 [AWK]: Kathy W providing update
15:12:31 [Mike_Elledge]: K: The Mobile A11y TF, not much participation. Trying to get more involved. Progess slower than like. Have id' tasks, like mobile example, language changes, techniques to add to mobile either apps or mobile. Sufficient or advisory techniques. Hvave 5 left in list. Almost ready to discuss Kim and I putting together list of techiaues, so can farm out. Both new techniques and ones adding mobiel lang to. So we can make good progress. Will set up s[CUT]
15:12:36 [Mike_Elledge]: view.
15:13:24 [Mike_Elledge]: K: That's where we are. Focus will be adding techniques. Have a good def of mobile techs as well as add as mobile examples. 5 to go. Will send out link.
15:13:39 [Mike_Elledge]: So people can review. Everhting is on teh wiki.
15:13:48 [Kathy]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Main_Page
15:13:59 [AWK]: s/everhting/everything
15:14:04 [AWK]: s/teh/the
15:14:08 [Kathy]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Creating_a_conforming_alternate_version_for_a_responsive_web_page_designed_with_progressive_enhancement
15:14:36 [Mike_Elledge]: K: Item working group wanted discussion on. Alternate version action item. Last week TF met and discussed. We have on our meeting minutes.
15:15:27 [Mike_Elledge]: K: Last week's minutes have summary of discussion. Some concerns w/ aren't we going backwards if stripping out a11y questions > text only page. Procedure seemed limited.
15:15:29 [AWK]: Meeting minutes from Mobile discussion: http://www.w3.org/2014/07/25-mobile-a11y-minutes.html
15:16:13 [Mike_Elledge]: Although if look into it clearly otehr links say preserve functionality. Concerns that devs would say equivialent even if not. From RWD standpoint, duplicated content and images.
15:16:31 [Joshue108]: q?
15:16:37 [Mike_Elledge]: K: Concern that images and size work still being done.
15:17:14 [Joshue108]: Also if sprites are used..
15:17:36 [Mike_Elledge]: K: Jean mentioned taht responsive images may get very large bec of how they're being structured and duplication. Group working on specs, concerned that if all CSS disabled that images would get too large.
15:17:39 [Joshue108]: q+
15:17:54 [Kathy]: http://www.w3.org/2014/07/25-mobile-a11y-minutes
15:18:01 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Is that an a11y issue. Group had some concerns about the technique, but should/not go forward?
15:18:38 [Joshue108]: ack me
15:18:39 [Mike_Elledge]: K: Would like to see addressed. No conclusion of whether/not move forward. Would like procedure to be updated and more research needed to be done wrt RWD.
15:18:53 [Mike_Elledge]: J: Around next week Kathy?
15:19:10 [Mike_Elledge]: K: Am on flight at 12:50, may be at beginning of meeting.
15:19:19 [Mike_Elledge]: J: Due to discuss with Alistar next week.
15:19:30 [Mike_Elledge]: J: Good to give him direct feedback.
15:19:53 [Mike_Elledge]: K: Link to minutes added (see above). Will try to be there.
15:19:56 [Mike_Elledge]: J: Will ping him.
15:20:32 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Jean and JS the same?
15:20:36 [Mike_Elledge]: K: Yes.
15:20:55 [Mike_Elledge]: A: What Mobile TF needs most is people.
15:21:20 [Mike_Elledge]: K: Yes. Would love to have feedback. Take a glance at list. Our plan for moving forward. Add questions or concerns.
15:21:34 [Mike_Elledge]: J: That's super.
15:21:41 [Mike_Elledge]: D: What is the deliverable?
15:22:03 [AWK]: s/D: /DM:
15:22:23 [Mike_Elledge]: K: Primary focus WCAG 2.o for Mobile and Mobile Techs. Were going to do best practices, but told priority is techniques.
15:22:24 [Mike_Elledge]: D: Makes sense.
15:22:39 [Zakim]: -Kathy_Wahlbin
15:22:42 [Mike_Elledge]: K: Says goodbye to teach webinar.
15:22:55 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Other questions?
15:23:11 [Mike_Elledge]: J: Issue of getting more people to look at space and contribute. Should do something about that.
15:23:30 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Would love to make people materialize and get people to work productively.
15:23:40 [Mike_Elledge]: D: Still trying to multiply hours.
15:23:55 [AWK]: Zakim, take up next item
15:23:55 [Zakim]: agendum 2. "finish issues from last week's call" taken up [from AWK]
15:24:11 [Mike_Elledge]: TOPIC: Finish isses from last week's call
15:24:31 [Mike_Elledge]: A: J explain what proposed resolution is about.
15:25:02 [Mike_Elledge]: A: 2905 issue from survey?
15:25:27 [Mike_Elledge]: J: Half completed work. Use map. and test procedure. One of steps was use of access on table values. Access attribute?
15:25:43 [Mike_Elledge]: A: DK
15:26:38 [Joshue108]: http://www.w3.org/2014/07/22-wai-wcag-minutes.html
15:27:45 [Mike_Elledge]: J: Had started talking about it. See mnutes above for reference. Need Loretta for 2904 to redo resolution.
15:28:37 [Kathy]: Kathy has joined #wai-wcag
15:28:42 [Joshue108]: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Comments_22May2014/
15:29:05 [Mike_Elledge]: L: Let's reopen it.
15:30:05 [Joshue108]: https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20140107/2905
15:30:18 [Mike_Elledge]: J: let's look at 2905.
15:30:51 [Mike_Elledge]: J: It's blank at moment. Thanks, L, for work last week.
15:31:12 [Mike_Elledge]: A: 2904?
15:31:23 [AWK]: TOPIC: LC-2904
15:31:31 [Joshue108]: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG-TECHS/F17.html
15:31:45 [Mike_Elledge]: J: Is there a uri for Technique F17? Yes this is the one.
15:32:28 [Zakim]: -Mike_Elledge
15:32:32 [Mike_Elledge]: J: Image maps fine. Have resolution. Use of Access attribute for image map. have never seen it or test cases. Also removing reference to accesskeys.
15:32:43 [Mike_Elledge]: Have lost connection will dial back.
15:33:04 [Joshue108]: zakim, queue?
15:33:04 [Zakim]: I see no one on the speaker queue
15:33:10 [Zakim]: +Mike_Elledge
15:33:17 [Mike_Elledge]: Back
15:33:54 [Loretta]: q+
15:33:57 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Client side image maps. Accept as amended. Are we happy w it? or still talking.
15:33:59 [Joshue108]: ack Lor
15:34:28 [Mike_Elledge]: L: Still particular aspect. 2905 opens larger discussion on test procedure. Never ocmpletely converged.
15:34:30 [AWK]: RESOLUTION: 2904 is still closed
15:34:39 [AWK]: TOPIC: LC-2905
15:34:45 [Mike_Elledge]: J: Related. why a bit sticky.
15:35:02 [Mike_Elledge]: L: Looks like 2905 moved into working group.
15:35:23 [Brent]: Brent has joined #wai-wcag
15:35:25 [Mike_Elledge]: L: A lot has been copied up into working group.
15:35:33 [Mike_Elledge]: J: Try to put 2905 to bed.
15:35:53 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Raises issues around checking for IDs that are unique.
15:36:37 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Checking for duplicate values, but now in keeping with original comment, or expanded.
15:37:18 [Mike_Elledge]: J: Expanded. Problem is there is very little info about what comment is saying. Cannot really glean about the point being made. Inferring that there is incorrect logic or how its phrased.
15:38:03 [Mike_Elledge]: J: Not clear. Should send back a simple response saying not enough info to parse comment, but that it sounds like logic issue in test procedure.
15:38:22 [Mike_Elledge]: J: WG responses reflect that.
15:38:26 [Zakim]: + +1.512.276.aabb
15:38:40 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Comparable item, but check back with commenter.
15:38:43 [Mike_Elledge]: +1
15:39:06 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Will send back comment reflecting that.
15:39:12 [Mike_Elledge]: RESOLUTION: Leave open.
15:39:44 [Mike_Elledge]: J: Issues of test procedure something we should address. Now, or leave til new published specs?
15:40:34 [Mike_Elledge]: A: If tehre's a larger change, need to havfe someone put forward proposal to modify technique. So if ripe for improvement add to list of techniques being tracked in wiki.
15:40:46 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Someone can grab it.
15:41:29 [Mike_Elledge]: J: Issue access being conflated with action keys. Other issue is access. Have never come across it. Could make a call that be replaced with better example.
15:42:08 [Mike_Elledge]: J; Change table example to Header/ID examples would be preferable to Access. Can park if you want. Have someone looking at it.
15:43:01 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Don't have a problem with Access being there, if someone can't use it okay. Header/ID agree. Accesskey some browsers will respond. Wouldn't be an error.
15:43:08 [Mike_Elledge]: A: But have to look into it.
15:43:32 [Mike_Elledge]: J: Accesskey references seem irrelevant, out moded to me. Would suggest removing it.
15:43:58 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Don't feel too strongly about it. Need someone to review and update F17, may or may not be in response to comment.
15:44:17 [Mike_Elledge]: J: Let's put comment to bed and have someone take it up. Close loop.
15:44:29 [Mike_Elledge]: ACTION: add F17 to list of techniques taht need look
15:44:29 [trackbot]: Error finding 'add'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/users>.
15:44:43 [AWK]: ACTION: akirkpat2 to add F17 to the list of techniques that need review/updating
15:44:43 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-266 - Add f17 to the list of techniques that need review/updating [on Andrew Kirkpatrick - due 2014-08-05].
15:45:09 [Mike_Elledge]: TOPIC: Comment on 2939
15:45:25 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Everything looks accepted as proposed.
15:45:36 [Mike_Elledge]: L: Was accepted.
15:46:08 [Mike_Elledge]: A: 2090 also on list
15:46:20 [Mike_Elledge]: TOPIC: 2909.
15:46:42 [Joshue108]: zakim, mute me
15:46:42 [Zakim]: Joshue should now be muted
15:46:42 [AWK]: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Comments_22May2014/results#xcomm3
15:47:35 [Mike_Elledge]: A: In minutes see above. Issue is headings to meet FC241. H69 is not required to meet FC241.
15:47:42 [Joshue108]: zakim, who is noisy?
15:47:54 [Zakim]: Joshue108, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Mike_Elledge (4%), AWK (66%)
15:48:27 [Joshue108]: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG-TECHS/H69.html
15:48:34 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Do we need a heading? H69 can be sufficient. Not nec to have heading to meet 241 or can be with a different technique.
15:49:05 [David]: q+
15:49:47 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Comments. Michael: Ok as is, but consider adding explanation. L: Agrees with sentiment of response. ?: Leave as written. Separate technique for headings where needed.Merging is not ok.
15:49:54 [AWK]: ack d
15:49:55 [Joshue108]: issue-19?
15:49:55 [trackbot]: issue-19 -- Should h69 be merged into h42? -- open
15:49:55 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/issues/19
15:49:56 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Other comments?
15:50:40 [Mike_Elledge]: D: Lots of misunderstanding of FC 241. Repeated blocks across a number of pages. Really does, headings a good way to do it. Some controversy over that. Have to put in plug, only FF does that.
15:51:32 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Salisha not hear to respond.
15:51:35 [David]: zakim, who's noisy?
15:51:46 [Zakim]: David, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Mike_Elledge (34%), AWK (90%), [IPcaller] (13%)
15:52:26 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Don't feel too strongly about it. Someone will be adding comments. Responder (AWK) needs to provide more detail about test procedure.
15:52:44 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Not sure what changes to make. Thought we did something about it already.
15:52:47 [Joshue108]: ack me
15:53:20 [Loretta]: q+
15:53:34 [Mike_Elledge]: J: Not sure what to do about it. Technique seems okay. Let's park it until Salisha is here.
15:54:06 [AWK]: Ack lor
15:54:13 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Feel like not clear what we're saying in technique. Have not indicated in response what we will do.
15:54:32 [Mike_Elledge]: L: Have discussed it before. Unless soemthing new don't need to reopen.
15:54:53 [Mike_Elledge]: L: Two techniqus about headings. Semantic markup, and where they are being used.
15:55:36 [Mike_Elledge]: AWK: H42 is H1-H6, info. H69 use headings at beginning of content.
15:55:42 [Mike_Elledge]: J: Also navigation.
15:56:02 [Mike_Elledge]: L: Meta issue. WCAG tries to tell people they don't have to use headings. Lots of people disagree.
15:56:09 [Zakim]: +Katie_Haritos-Shea
15:56:24 [Mike_Elledge]: A: H69 is how you use them.
15:56:40 [Mike_Elledge]: L: Is overkill for 241, good for 2410.
15:57:09 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Leave this open. Clarify specifics of resolution. Saleash may be back to discuss.
15:57:18 [Mike_Elledge]: J: Seems redundant.
15:57:30 [David]: q+
15:57:36 [Mike_Elledge]: L: But you can use them but not have them in beginning of each section.
15:57:44 [Ryladog]: Ryladog has joined #wai-wcag
15:57:44 [Mike_Elledge]: J: Agree.
15:57:46 [AWK]: s/Saleash/Sailesh
15:58:02 [David]: q+
15:58:06 [Mike_Elledge]: J: Save our sanity, say no. This is why we're keeping them separate.
15:58:18 [Mike_Elledge]: L: But that's not the comment.
15:58:25 [Mike_Elledge]: A: So shouldn't be part of response.
15:58:49 [AWK]: ack d
15:58:55 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Have a short discussion about Issue 19. Will update my response. Can discuss next week.
15:59:27 [Mike_Elledge]: D: If headings have to be descriptive (246)?
15:59:46 [Mike_Elledge]: L: Yes, but we were discussion 241, which is navigation.
16:00:02 [Mike_Elledge]: D: Wanted to clarify, since it's a hot button issue.
16:00:14 [Mike_Elledge]: L: Let's move on!
16:01:07 [Mike_Elledge]: RESOLUTION: Leave 2909 open.
16:01:29 [AWK]: AWK to update https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20140306/2909
16:01:51 [Mike_Elledge]: L: Can live with that unless we are going to gate this to writing new technique. Given gap between what needs to be done and availablity of people to do it could be long time.
16:02:09 [Mike_Elledge]: L: Since it says we made changes, should show them.
16:02:18 [Mike_Elledge]: A: I will do that.
16:02:28 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Done with that survey!
16:02:40 [David]: s/n!/n
16:02:49 [AWK]: Zakim, agenda?
16:02:49 [Zakim]: I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
16:02:50 [Zakim]: 2. finish issues from last week's call [from AWK]
16:02:50 [Zakim]: 3. ISSUES and ACTION walkthrough [from AWK]
16:02:50 [Zakim]: 4. Keydates for working group publication cycles [from AWK]
16:02:50 [Zakim]: 5. Overview of the new specification branch. [from AWK]
16:02:50 [Zakim]: 6. Feedback needed on ERT WG new Developers' Guide to Features of Web Accessibility Evaluation Tools document Survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/29thAugust2014 [from AWK]
16:03:34 [Mike_Elledge]: D: Addendum 2871. Should talk about that. Action to contact original poster for clarification. Commenter may not have been referring from SC user.
16:03:56 [Mike_Elledge]: D: Was from a visual perspecter.
16:04:13 [Mike_Elledge]: A: left open from last week, not fully ready for discussion, let's discuss next week.
16:04:18 [Mike_Elledge]: D: Will update.
16:04:25 [AWK]: Zakim, close item 2
16:04:25 [Zakim]: agendum 2, finish issues from last week's call, closed
16:04:26 [Zakim]: I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:04:26 [Zakim]: 3. ISSUES and ACTION walkthrough [from AWK]
16:04:34 [Mike_Elledge]: Scribe: mea culpa.
16:05:03 [Mike_Elledge]: A: What would you like to discuss?
16:05:31 [AWK]: Zakim: take up item 4
16:05:54 [AWK]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Timelines
16:05:55 [Mike_Elledge]: J: Keydates for working group publication cycles
16:07:19 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Need to be done August 26, comments close Aug 12, Call has been made for them. Partway through comment period. Hoping they come in early so we can beat that date.
16:07:51 [Mike_Elledge]: A: New techniques due date for March update of Tech and Understanding. Will talk about tomorrow.
16:08:01 [AWK]: Zakim, next item
16:08:01 [Zakim]: agendum 3. "ISSUES and ACTION walkthrough" taken up [from AWK]
16:08:12 [AWK]: ZAkim, take up item 5
16:08:12 [Zakim]: agendum 5. "Overview of the new specification branch." taken up [from AWK]
16:08:55 [Mike_Elledge]: J: New specification branch. Michael and I discussed to create new branch so poll can be submitted against it. Will need to do. Just a head's up.
16:09:18 [AWK]: (specification branch refers to a new branch in GitHub)
16:09:45 [Mike_Elledge]: M: Have not set up branch. Keep in mind that edits that are not part of review of new publication will go in current branch. Will be in parallel for awhile.
16:10:03 [Mike_Elledge]: M: So have to be careful about where the edits go. So be careful.
16:10:41 [Mike_Elledge]: M: Different branches. Working branch for Fall 2014 is current branch. New one will probly be Spring 2015 for new things that come up.
16:10:56 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Branch it off Fall and not main branch.
16:11:08 [AWK]: Zakim, take up item 6
16:11:08 [Zakim]: agendum 6. "Feedback needed on ERT WG new Developers' Guide to Features of Web Accessibility Evaluation Tools document Survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/29thAugust2014"
16:11:11 [Zakim]: ... taken up [from AWK]
16:11:40 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Feedback on New Dev's Guide. Not sure if out, or we've been introduced to it.
16:12:12 [AWK]: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/29thAugust2014/results
16:12:21 [Ryladog]: http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/WD-WAET-20140724/
16:12:25 [Mike_Elledge]: J: Came from ERT WG as a note, relates to Dev Guide for Eval Tools. Shadi would like WG feedback. let us know what you think.
16:12:48 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Link is in the survey. Will have as open on survey. Deadline?
16:13:03 [Mike_Elledge]: J: Will have to keep survey open for another week. Should be sufficient.
16:13:18 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Take a look at it, people in next week.
16:13:28 [AWK]: Zakim, take up next item
16:13:28 [Zakim]: agendum 3. "ISSUES and ACTION walkthrough" taken up [from AWK]
16:13:34 [AWK]: zakim, agenda?
16:13:34 [Zakim]: I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
16:13:35 [Zakim]: 3. ISSUES and ACTION walkthrough [from AWK]
16:13:35 [Zakim]: 4. Keydates for working group publication cycles [from AWK]
16:13:35 [Zakim]: 5. Overview of the new specification branch. [from AWK]
16:13:42 [AWK]: Zakim, close item 4
16:13:42 [Zakim]: agendum 4, Keydates for working group publication cycles, closed
16:13:43 [Zakim]: I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:13:43 [Zakim]: 3. ISSUES and ACTION walkthrough [from AWK]
16:13:44 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Last item?
16:13:45 [AWK]: Zakim, close item 5
16:13:45 [Zakim]: agendum 5, Overview of the new specification branch., closed
16:13:46 [Zakim]: I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
16:13:46 [Zakim]: 3. ISSUES and ACTION walkthrough [from AWK]
16:14:14 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Link to open issues?
16:14:17 [Joshue108]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/
16:14:26 [Joshue108]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/issues/
16:14:47 [Mike_Elledge]: J: Last time went through 10. From 38 backwards...
16:15:27 [Mike_Elledge]: D: Wiki page, Kathy was going to forward. Will remind her.
16:15:46 [Mike_Elledge]: A: 263: Take proposal to EO group?
16:15:47 [marcjohlic]: marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
16:16:11 [Zakim]: +Marc_Johlic
16:16:12 [Mike_Elledge]: M: Was assigned to me...
16:16:23 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Do we know what proposal is?
16:16:40 [Mike_Elledge]: MJ: Closed.
16:18:27 [Brent]: Brent has joined #wai-wcag
16:18:29 [Mike_Elledge]: A: 260, Kathy not on call. When HP became advisory. Wilco H53 a11y support. J: How AT/IT work together (for group). Codifying test procedures.
16:19:09 [Mike_Elledge]: J: Ad hoc basis. Part of the problem. Why comments on test procedures logic needing work. Not sure how to do it.
16:19:35 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Guidance on F77? How to phrase them.
16:20:03 [Mike_Elledge]: L: Haven't. Context differs. No cross-document quality control. In this case, overlap.
16:20:17 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Sorry, hoped for easy action!
16:20:33 [Mike_Elledge]: J: Preformatted logic that L can send my way?
16:20:52 [Mike_Elledge]: L: Michael wrote pages on how to write a good technique. Off our wiki page.
16:21:02 [Mike_Elledge]: J: Will have to revisit.
16:21:21 [Mike_Elledge]: L: Highlights the challenge. Reading or finding also hard, even if written down.
16:21:44 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Shadi has some. 237: Katie, make sure it is on future guidelines.
16:22:13 [Mike_Elledge]: Katie: Raise contrast requirement to A.
16:22:42 [Mike_Elledge]: Katie: Will go do that.
16:22:45 [AWK]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Post_WCAG_2
16:22:50 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Now in action for you.
16:22:57 [AWK]: That's the page for post WCAG 2 items
16:23:22 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Won't just find as "This".
16:23:26 [Mike_Elledge]: All: LOL
16:24:04 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Alistar has one, grouping controls to identify roles. Don't have example 2.
16:24:30 [Mike_Elledge]: A: David's. Add example 3 to Saleash.
16:25:04 [Mike_Elledge]: D: Have to look that up again. Wrote example having trouble getting help (Action 230).
16:25:49 [Mike_Elledge]: D: Will coordinate with Saleash.
16:26:09 [Mike_Elledge]: J: will ping Alistar about 236.
16:26:24 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Get rid of 222.
16:26:56 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Apparently it's done.
16:27:18 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Open issues reads like open actions. 237 non-modal dialog.
16:28:18 [Mike_Elledge]: D: Now on issues? Try to give a good example, but it's not a modal. Should discuss. When need to access background can be confusing to screen reader users.
16:28:48 [Mike_Elledge]: D: Person tabs beyond dialog box goes into background, even if it's grayed out for sighted users.
16:29:17 [Mike_Elledge]: D: Presenting it as an accessible dialog box.
16:29:31 [Joshue108]: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/client-side-script.html#SCR37
16:30:09 [Mike_Elledge]: D: Might have been in WCAG 1.0. Really seeing dialog boxes using layers last couple of years, like a lightbox using CSS, causes problems.
16:30:49 [Mike_Elledge]: A: Technique also says nice to make launching link open and close. If we edit the dialog in that way also must be addressed.
16:30:57 [Joshue108]: ISSUE-38: The technique needs a reboot, maybe an aria role="modal" property is needed.
16:30:57 [trackbot]: Notes added to ISSUE-38 SCR37 is a non-modal dialogue.
16:31:04 [Mike_Elledge]: D: An implicit closing of dialog box.
16:31:11 [Joshue108]: ISSUE-38: The technique needs a reboot, maybe an aria role="dialog" property is needed.
16:31:11 [trackbot]: Notes added to ISSUE-38 SCR37 is a non-modal dialogue.
16:31:37 [Mike_Elledge]: D: Two issues. Toggle off and ?
16:32:07 [Mike_Elledge]: A: We can track it. Out of time. Editors will meet tomorrow morning. Let us know by Friday for next week issues.
16:32:10 [Zakim]: -[IPcaller]
16:32:13 [Zakim]: - +1.512.276.aabb
16:32:15 [Zakim]: -Katie_Haritos-Shea
16:32:19 [Zakim]: -Cooper
16:32:21 [Joshue108]: Take up from ISSUE-37 next week
16:32:24 [Zakim]: -David_MacDonald
16:32:28 [Zakim]: -Joshue
16:32:34 [Zakim]: -Kenny
16:32:36 [AWK]: trackbot, close meeting
16:32:36 [trackbot]: Sorry, AWK, I don't understand 'trackbot, close meeting'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
16:32:44 [AWK]: trackbot, end meeting
16:32:44 [trackbot]: Zakim, list attendees
16:32:44 [Zakim]: As of this point the attendees have been +1.415.832.aaaa, AWK, Kathy_Wahlbin, David_MacDonald, Mike_Elledge, Michael_Cooper, Joshue, Bruce_Bailey, Kenny, [IPcaller], Cooper,
16:32:47 [Zakim]: ... +1.512.276.aabb, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Marc_Johlic
16:32:52 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:32:52 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/29-wai-wcag-minutes.html trackbot