IRC log of tt on 2014-07-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:59:44 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #tt

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/07/24-tt-irc

13:59:46 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

13:59:46 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #tt

13:59:48 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be TTML

13:59:48 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute

13:59:49 [trackbot]

Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

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SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has now started

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Date: 24 July 2014

13:59:55 [Zakim]

+jdsmith

14:00:04 [Zakim]

+Plh

14:00:53 [Zakim]

+??P10

14:01:01 [nigel]

zakim, ??P10 is me

14:01:01 [Zakim]

+nigel; got it

14:01:37 [nigel]

Present: plh, jdsmith, nigel

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atai has joined #tt

14:01:51 [nigel]

chair: nigel

14:02:34 [Zakim]

+Andreas

14:02:46 [nigel]

Present+ Andreas

14:03:12 [nigel]

Regrets: pal, glenn

14:03:40 [nigel]

scribeNick: plh

14:03:59 [plh]

NIgel: activities on issues since last meeting

14:04:08 [plh]

Topic: Prioritise discussion for this meeting

14:04:31 [plh]

Nigel: let's cover IMSC and issues for tday

14:04:50 [plh]

... no AOB today

14:04:55 [plh]

Topic: IMSC 1 timeline

14:05:12 [plh]

NigeL: send email on Friday and didn't see responses

14:05:18 [plh]

... I'll take that as approval

14:05:35 [plh]

... this was generated with Pierre btw

14:05:49 [plh]

... idea is: all issues need to be raised by September 5th

14:06:21 [plh]

... it's possible that we'll identify some cases where an issue might fit better in IMSC during the f2f

14:06:36 [plh]

... so I've left a little window for the f2f

14:06:58 [plh]

... then Pierre will be able to create a draft for review by October 15

14:07:12 [plh]

... so we'll have resolved issues or defer them

14:07:33 [plh]

... I'll send a liaison to key orgs about the timeline

14:07:40 [plh]

... feedback?

14:07:53 [plh]

plh: +1

14:08:15 [plh]

RESOLUTION: IMSC timeline is approved

14:08:33 [plh]

Nigel: second part of the IMSC issues

14:08:49 [plh]

... in upcoming meetings, I'd like to address them

14:09:08 [plh]

... proposal is to have 2 hours meetings on July 31, August 14

14:09:34 [plh]

... might skip August 28

14:09:53 [plh]

Jerry: is that to cover IMSC topics, or make progress on TTML issues?

14:10:07 [plh]

Nigel: I try to cover issues regardless of products

14:10:34 [plh]

Jerry: those dates would work for me

14:10:59 [plh]

Nigel: for August 28, anybody volunteering to chair?

14:11:35 [plh]

RESOLUTION: 2 hours meeting on July 31, August 14, and no meeting on August 28

14:11:56 [plh]

Topic: Action items

14:12:19 [plh]

isue-259?

14:12:24 [plh]

issue-259?

14:12:24 [trackbot]

issue-259 -- Define "closest" -- pending review

14:12:24 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259

14:12:38 [plh]

Nigel: seems that people are happy with those actions

14:12:47 [plh]

action-207?

14:12:47 [trackbot]

action-207 -- Glenn Adams to Add round-down clarification to "closest" language, see issue-259 -- due 2014-04-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW

14:12:47 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/207

14:13:03 [plh]

action-258?

14:13:03 [trackbot]

action-258 -- Glenn Adams to Work with pal to resolve edits needed for issue-259 comments -- due 2014-04-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW

14:13:03 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/258

14:13:32 [plh]

Nigel: that works for me and Pierre and Glenn. any objection to move on?

14:13:42 [plh]

close action-207

14:13:42 [trackbot]

Closed action-207.

14:13:44 [plh]

close action-258

14:13:44 [trackbot]

Closed action-258.

14:13:52 [plh]

close issue-259

14:13:52 [trackbot]

Closed issue-259.

14:14:07 [plh]

action-306?

14:14:07 [trackbot]

action-306 -- Jerry Smith to Assign priorities to change proposals owned by jdsmith -- due 2014-07-24 -- PENDINGREVIEW

14:14:07 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/306

14:14:20 [plh]

Nigel: some conversation about this.

14:14:25 [plh]

... this was on a change proposal

14:14:42 [plh]

... since we agreed to prioritize them

14:14:47 [nigel]

https://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/ChangeProposalIndex

14:15:09 [plh]

Nigel: we have priorities in the table now

14:15:55 [plh]

... change proposal 2 is marked as no action needed

14:16:00 [nigel]

https://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal002

14:16:03 [plh]

... but can we close the change proposal?

14:16:15 [plh]

Jerry: I think it's been implemented. want to check it's complete

14:16:19 [plh]

... I'll update the status

14:16:31 [plh]

... I'll do it today

14:16:55 [plh]

Nigel: ok, we'll close the proposal after you're done with your action.

14:17:38 [plh]

Jerry: I'll update the table after the meeting

14:17:52 [plh]

Topic: action overdue or due next week

14:18:44 [plh]

Nigel: I followed up with David on the geneva f2f meeting

14:18:55 [plh]

... and he is still working on it

14:19:05 [plh]

... at the moment, we only have one vtt expect who responded

14:19:13 [nigel]

https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/34314/TTWG_Geneva_F2F_Planning/

14:19:44 [plh]

Nigel: deadline is August 15

14:20:33 [plh]

Topic: Issues pending review, discussed and raised over the past week

14:20:40 [plh]

issue-263?

14:20:40 [trackbot]

issue-263 -- profile feature set may not match intended feature constraints -- pending review

14:20:40 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/263

14:21:03 [plh]

(we'll skip that one)

14:22:06 [plh]

issue-324?

14:22:06 [trackbot]

issue-324 -- Prefer end to dur on generated out-of-line regions -- raised

14:22:06 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/324

14:22:30 [plh]

Nigel: this is to do with the out of line region text

14:23:02 [plh]

... Glenn assigned a duration value to those regions

14:23:35 [plh]

issue-324 is now open

14:23:50 [plh]

issue-325?

14:23:50 [trackbot]

issue-325 -- Add 'prohibited' value to @ttp:validation -- raised

14:23:50 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/325

14:24:07 [plh]

Nigel: Glenn raised that one

14:24:52 [plh]

Jerry: is this case probihited means disabled?

14:25:01 [plh]

Nigel: yes, it means you must not validate this

14:25:07 [plh]

Jerry: what's the use case?

14:25:17 [plh]

Nigel: I don't know

14:25:50 [plh]

issue-325: the group would like to see use case(s) for this

14:25:50 [trackbot]

Notes added to issue-325 Add 'prohibited' value to @ttp:validation.

14:26:13 [plh]

issue-326?

14:26:13 [trackbot]

issue-326 -- definitions do not use shall, uses of definitions may use shall -- raised

14:26:13 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/326

14:26:34 [plh]

Nigel: this is about conformance language

14:26:40 [plh]

... makes sense to me

14:26:59 [plh]

326 is now open

14:27:14 [plh]

issue-327?

14:27:14 [trackbot]

issue-327 -- IMSC should meet W3C QA Framework Spec guidelines -- raised

14:27:14 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/327

14:27:45 [plh]

Nigel: this is generic bucket.

14:27:56 [plh]

... let's try to meet the best practices as we can.

14:28:09 [plh]

... is that a reasonnable thing to be asking for?

14:28:48 [plh]

Plh: it's nice to have but not a priority imho

14:29:23 [plh]

... let's see what Pierre can do and if you have more specific concern, you should raise those separately

14:29:33 [plh]

Nigel: agreed

14:30:08 [plh]

issue-328?

14:30:08 [trackbot]

issue-328 -- ittm:altText should be in TT namespace in TTML 2.0 -- raised

14:30:08 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/328

14:30:27 [plh]

Nigel: goes back to alt text

14:30:42 [plh]

... that maybe imsc doesn't meet the WCAG 2 guidelines

14:30:54 [plh]

... although the resolution didn't require alt text

14:31:01 [plh]

... it's still a good idea

14:31:14 [plh]

... so it's imsc 1 and John wants to put in the tt namespace

14:31:22 [plh]

... ie not part of metadata

14:31:56 [plh]

Plh: +1 to John

14:32:01 [plh]

Nigel: I agree as well

14:32:44 [plh]

issue-309?

14:32:44 [trackbot]

issue-309 -- Image profile needs to permit text equivalent -- open

14:32:44 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/309

14:33:02 [plh]

Nigel: Pierre has made some edits there

14:33:35 [plh]

... I still need to complete my review but I'm comfortable with where we got to now

14:33:49 [plh]

... I suppose there is a question about the alternative mechanism

14:34:45 [plh]

Plh: so the meeting with the a11y folks happened?

14:35:13 [plh]

Nigel: yes. it isn't a requirement that it needs to be provided in the same doc.

14:35:25 [plh]

... it's a requirement for the software to find it

14:35:42 [plh]

... there needs to be metadata about the alternative document

14:36:46 [plh]

... I think we should close the issue at this stage

14:38:03 [plh]

close issue-309

14:38:03 [trackbot]

Closed issue-309.

14:38:11 [plh]

issue-313?

14:38:11 [trackbot]

issue-313 -- Presented Region section is informative only -- open

14:38:11 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/313

14:38:23 [plh]

Nigel: that's an IMSC region

14:38:59 [plh]

... ttml 1 has the concept of temporarily active region

14:39:12 [plh]

... Pierre has resolved in his edit

14:39:33 [plh]

... so we have a definition in IMSC 1 now

14:40:01 [plh]

... I think the proposal is to close issue 313 and raise a new one

14:40:07 [plh]

... happy with the approach

14:40:32 [plh]

Jerry: makes sense to me. it clarifies the remaining issue

14:40:38 [plh]

close issue-313

14:40:38 [trackbot]

Closed issue-313.

14:40:51 [plh]

ACTION: Nigel to create follow-up issue from issue-313

14:40:51 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-308 - Create follow-up issue from issue-313 [on Nigel Megitt - due 2014-07-31].

14:41:16 [plh]

issue-314?

14:41:16 [trackbot]

issue-314 -- Temporally active is not defined for regions -- open

14:41:16 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/314

14:41:49 [plh]

Nigel: temporally active isn't defined and ought to be

14:42:22 [plh]

... that can be achieve with assigning begin/end time to regions

14:42:35 [plh]

... I wonder if folks use regions with timing

14:42:51 [plh]

... the concept from Glenn is a good one but I don't know a use case for it

14:43:19 [plh]

... will continue discussion with Glenn

14:43:23 [plh]

issue-317?

14:43:23 [trackbot]

issue-317 -- IMSC should not require frame alignment -- open

14:43:23 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/317

14:43:45 [plh]

NIgel: Pierre made an edit that he believes sort out this issue

14:44:21 [plh]

"A document can be made independent of the frame rate of the related video object by never using the frames term in a time expression"

14:44:39 [plh]

"In circumstances where the video program is downsampled during delivery, the application can specify that, at playback, the relative video object be considered the delivered video program upsampled to is original rate, thereby allowing subtitle content to be rendered at the same temporal locations it was authored."

14:44:48 [plh]

Nigel: I think it addresses my concern

14:45:17 [plh]

... so if Pierre and I are ok, can we close the issue?

14:45:24 [plh]

close issue-317

14:45:25 [trackbot]

Closed issue-317.

14:45:53 [plh]

Topic: Change proposals

14:46:15 [plh]

Nigel: the way things look: priority 1 needs to be closed before FPWD

14:46:34 [plh]

... Amendments to the set attribute

14:46:42 [plh]

... HTML5 Mapping semantics

14:47:24 [plh]

Jerry: change proposal 5 is largely drafted. you expressed a desire to have those inline. Didn't close the loop with Glenn yet. the content is there

14:47:35 [plh]

... just needs to be incorporated

14:47:54 [plh]

Nigel: can you create an issue on TTML 2 for this?

14:48:00 [plh]

... and edit the change proposal page

14:48:09 [plh]

Jerry: sure

14:48:28 [plh]

Nigel: Audio rendering

14:48:37 [plh]

... I don't think that needs to be in TTML 2 at this stage

14:48:48 [plh]

... so if somebody does want to take this on, let me know

14:49:10 [plh]

... Distribution

14:49:27 [plh]

... I can't do a lot about it at the moment

14:49:33 [plh]

... hoping to bring something back

14:49:48 [plh]

... what if you have a stream of short documents?

14:50:15 [plh]

Plh: when is FPWD scheduled?

14:50:25 [plh]

Nigel: no timeline yet

14:50:57 [plh]

Plh: how about targetting after the september meeting?

14:51:00 [plh]

Nigel: too early

14:51:06 [plh]

... would rather do after TPAC

14:51:28 [plh]

.. I'll talk with Glenn as well

14:51:39 [plh]

ACTION: Nigel to propose a timeline for TTML 2 FPWD

14:51:40 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-309 - Propose a timeline for ttml 2 fpwd [on Nigel Megitt - due 2014-07-31].

14:52:05 [plh]

Nigel: tests needs to be closed by LC

14:52:15 [plh]

... I'll be looking for volunteers for that

14:52:48 [Zakim]

-Andreas

14:53:35 [plh]

... Links

14:55:14 [Zakim]

-Plh

14:55:16 [Zakim]

-nigel

14:55:52 [nigel]

nigel: If nobody has a use case for links that means it should have a higher priority then it will be deferred until v.next

14:55:59 [nigel]

nigel: Meeting adjourned.

14:56:04 [nigel]

rrsagent, make logs public

14:56:09 [nigel]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:56:09 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/24-tt-minutes.html nigel

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+??P9

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-jdsmith

15:10:41 [nigel]

s/isue-259?/

15:11:49 [nigel]

s/is this case probihited means disabled?/in this case prohibited means disabled?

15:14:08 [nigel]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:14:08 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/24-tt-minutes.html nigel

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disconnecting the lone participant, ??P9, in SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM

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SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has ended

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Attendees were jdsmith, Plh, nigel, Andreas

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