IRC log of indie-ui on 2014-07-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:52:18 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #indie-ui
20:52:18 [RRSAgent]
logging to
20:52:20 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
20:52:20 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #indie-ui
20:52:22 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be INDIE
20:52:22 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_Indie()5:00PM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
20:52:23 [trackbot]
Meeting: Independent User Interface Task Force Teleconference
20:52:23 [trackbot]
Date: 23 July 2014
20:52:28 [janina]
20:52:41 [janina]
Meeting: IndieUI Task Force Teleconference
20:52:42 [janina]
Chair: Janina_Sajka
20:52:42 [janina]
agenda+ preview agenda with items from two minutes
20:52:42 [janina]
agenda+ TPAC 2014
20:52:42 [janina]
agenda+ Editor's Report
20:52:44 [janina]
agenda+ Prospects with Web Apps' Editing TF [See below]
20:52:46 [janina]
agenda+ Testing Conversation
20:52:49 [janina]
agenda+ User Context Issues & Actions
20:52:52 [janina]
agenda+ Events Issues & Actions
20:52:55 [janina]
agenda+ Other Business
20:52:58 [janina]
agenda+ Be Done
20:54:01 [Zakim]
WAI_Indie()5:00PM has now started
20:54:08 [Zakim]
20:54:13 [janina]
zakim, ??P0 is me
20:54:13 [Zakim]
+janina; got it
20:56:19 [jasonjgw]
jasonjgw has joined #indie-ui
20:56:42 [Zakim]
20:57:07 [jasonjgw]
zakim, ??p1 is jasonjgw
20:57:07 [Zakim]
+jasonjgw; got it
20:59:15 [kurosawa]
kurosawa has joined #indie-ui
21:00:17 [Zakim]
21:00:49 [kurosawa]
Zakim, ??P2 is me
21:00:49 [Zakim]
+kurosawa; got it
21:04:03 [Zakim]
21:05:05 [MichaelC]
regrets: Andy_Heath, Rich_Schwerdtfeger
21:05:18 [MichaelC]
21:09:22 [Zakim]
21:10:08 [jcraig]
jcraig has joined #indie-ui
21:10:24 [Zakim]
21:10:47 [jcraig]
Zakim, Apple has jcraig
21:10:47 [Zakim]
+jcraig; got it
21:11:14 [jcraig]
Zakim, Apple is jcraig
21:11:14 [Zakim]
+jcraig; got it
21:11:21 [Ryladog]
Ryladog has joined #indie-ui
21:11:49 [MichaelC]
scribeNick: Ryladog
21:12:03 [Ryladog]
next item
21:12:24 [Ryladog]
zakim, next item
21:12:24 [Zakim]
agendum 1 was just opened, Ryladog
21:12:36 [MichaelC]
zakim, take up item 1
21:12:36 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina]
21:13:03 [Ryladog]
rrsagent, list attendee
21:13:03 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'list attendee', Ryladog. Try /msg RRSAgent help
21:14:30 [jasonjgw]
Katie notes significant interest in IndieUI at Open Web Camp 6, a development-oriented conference.
21:15:35 [Ryladog]
zakim, next item
21:15:35 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "TPAC 2014" taken up [from janina]
21:16:10 [Ryladog]
JS: Please book rooms at the conference hotel
21:16:23 [Ryladog]
JS: we should think about agenda for
21:16:40 [Ryladog]
zakim, next item
21:16:40 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Editor's Report" taken up [from janina]
21:16:59 [Ryladog]
Scribe: Katie Haritos-Shea
21:17:09 [Ryladog]
rrsagent, set logs world-visible
21:17:25 [Ryladog]
JW: Git
21:17:31 [Ryladog]
MC: Done
21:17:40 [Ryladog]
JS: User Context is published
21:17:46 [MichaelC]
-> IndieUI Sources on GitHub
21:18:21 [Ryladog]
MC: sources dont have a redirect, only James and I have commit access at the moment
21:18:44 [Ryladog]
MC: You can fork to suggest edits wiout being an editor
21:19:14 [Ryladog]
JS: We intend to publish
21:19:26 [Ryladog]
JS: We have a first public working daft
21:19:32 [Ryladog]
zakim, next item
21:19:32 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Prospects with Web Apps' Editing TF" taken up [from See below]
21:20:07 [Ryladog]
JS: New TF in WebApps, with new people to the W3C
21:20:28 [Ryladog]
JS: W3C is planning another one like the San Fran meeting in Germany
21:20:47 [Ryladog]
JS: Chrome,a dn IE though they hated Content-editable
21:21:21 [Ryladog]
JS: Cynthia got into a conversation with them. And we joined a few weeks ago. Their document is called an Explainer
21:21:22 [jcraig]
21:21:45 [Ryladog]
JS: They are want to get accessibility right, they would like to work with us directly
21:22:01 [jcraig]
21:22:19 [Ryladog]
JS: Not clear is perhaps this is a way tp put relationships back together with WebApps without having to recharter
21:22:55 [Ryladog]
JS: Simi;ar to where we started when we first started. Web event folkd pulled out at that time. This group want to explore this further with us
21:23:03 [Zakim]
21:23:21 [Zakim]
21:23:26 [kurosawa]
Zakim, ??P2 is me
21:23:26 [Zakim]
+kurosawa; got it
21:23:32 [Ryladog]
JS: James have you been able to llok at their documents yet?
21:23:42 [Ryladog]
JC: Not yet
21:23:55 [Ryladog]
JS: see links below
21:24:18 [Ryladog]
rrsagent, make minutes
21:24:18 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Ryladog
21:24:34 [Ryladog]
JS: I cc'd their facilitator
21:25:09 [Ryladog]
JC: We have been thinking about this too, Google Docs and iCloud and Outlook could use this
21:26:01 [Ryladog]
JC: I am not sure this is the best approach for IndieUI, but for an API for IndieUI would be good - becasue it is not specific t an Accessibility API
21:26:32 [Ryladog]
JC; It is a metter of getting the people who make Contenteditable to agree that they need to change their approach and that is hard
21:26:55 [Ryladog]
JC: The people who run the IE
21:27:06 [Ryladog]
JS: Her name is Julie, it is in the minutes
21:27:39 [Ryladog]
JC: Internally and exteranlly - there has been a lot of time and resources spent on it - and those people want it to be implemented
21:27:58 [Ryladog]
JC: Word does not use the same rebdering engine as WordPad
21:28:35 [Ryladog]
JC: There is evidence to show that the standrd approach is behind - and API to allow ths programmmaticall y is absolutely necessary
21:28:58 [Ryladog]
JS: They talk about it the way we ytalk about and particular action that you want to envoke
21:29:13 [Ryladog]
JC; But what abour set value for range - that is npt possiblle now
21:29:44 [Ryladog]
JC: We have a special control character - other aspects of rich text editing is not possibe with ContentEditable
21:30:02 [Ryladog]
JS: it os a new Task Force that has started up in Web Apps just a month aho
21:30:15 [Ryladog]
JW: We have a synergy with them
21:30:30 [Ryladog]
JSL Star twith there Explainer Document
21:30:46 [Ryladog]
JS: Their meeting are not weekly
21:31:09 [Ryladog]
JS: There is common cause here
21:31:28 [Ryladog]
CJ: They have valis issues
21:31:43 [Ryladog]
JC: I am reviewing their issues
21:32:00 [Ryladog]
JS: Here were people sitting down to do this out of the community we need
21:32:24 [Ryladog]
JC: We may not even ned to approach it is ARIA 2,0 which i thought we might have to do
21:32:41 [Ryladog]
zakim, next item
21:32:41 [Zakim]
I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Ryladog
21:32:50 [MichaelC]
21:32:51 [janina]
21:32:53 [MichaelC]
ack j
21:33:09 [Ryladog]
zakim, next item
21:33:09 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Testing Conversation" taken up [from janina]
21:33:58 [Ryladog]
JS: Has anyone heard from Hans recently - he was going to send us some polyfills?
21:34:12 [Ryladog]
JS: Did he just move back to NZ?
21:34:28 [Ryladog]
JC: Does he work for Paciello Group?
21:34:31 [Ryladog]
MC; Yes
21:34:43 [Ryladog]
MC: I will see if he is active
21:35:29 [Ryladog]
JW: I am looking at their document called HTML editing APIs
21:35:52 [Ryladog]
JW: It was out of one of the HTML specs, it is an editors draft
21:35:52 [jasonjgw]
21:37:13 [Ryladog]
JC: Take this range stuff - it is an expansion of the existing API
21:37:23 [Ryladog]
JC: It is not new
21:38:55 [Ryladog]
JC: There are feature in the new document that Janina linked to - there are some poeple who are willing to admit that the current ContentEditatble is not sufficient
21:39:18 [Ryladog]
MC: Latest Github for him Hans was last Spril
21:39:31 [Ryladog]
JS: James will be pinging him
21:39:39 [Ryladog]
JC: I just sent that email
21:40:04 [Ryladog]
JS: What is the IMplementation status?
21:40:28 [Ryladog]
JC: We have been implementing ypu check for UI request evet - you cant do anything with them yet
21:41:06 [Ryladog]
JC: Yes there is partial implenetation but it i mre like BETA - there is no resistant - we are just t busy with other tasks
21:41:27 [Ryladog]
JS: So this is new in WebKit - would they fork or copy?
21:41:53 [Ryladog]
JC: Becasue the implementations have forked now - it has beenmore than a year
21:42:25 [Ryladog]
JC: There is not all that much to copy anyway - and this happened after their fork
21:43:11 [Ryladog]
MC; the most important part is that two different implemebter took the spec and implemented it in an interoperable manner
21:43:53 [Ryladog]
MC: If they used two seprate code paths then we would have to convince the W3C Director that it was the same - and if they copied the code - that will NOT be good for us
21:44:09 [Ryladog]
MC: We should look for 2 more implemenations
21:44:20 [Ryladog]
JC: We can look at the code base
21:44:48 [Ryladog]
MC: That sound reasobale but we would need to convinve the diredtor of that - and Judy
21:45:18 [Ryladog]
JC: If we could show that it works on Android and iOS that would be sugnificant
21:45:22 [Ryladog]
MC; Yes
21:45:45 [Ryladog]
MC: I am not saying we caannot convinve him but we need to be thing about it
21:45:47 [jcraig]
21:46:31 [Ryladog]
JC; It is almost liek the ARIA implememnations
21:46:46 [Ryladog]
JC: platfrom mapping to the API is very different
21:47:03 [Ryladog]
MC: It might depend on how the OS hands it over to the API
21:47:34 [jcraig]
s/platfrom mapping to the API is very different/though the Firefox core is identical on Windows and Linux, the platform accessibility mapping to the API is very different/
21:47:36 [Ryladog]
21:47:54 [Ryladog]
JC: We dont have useable implementations yet
21:48:13 [Ryladog]
MC: We are just setting expectation for what we need to plan for
21:48:37 [Ryladog]
JS: I need to find out if FF is moving forward with IndieUI
21:48:53 [Ryladog]
JC: If we get one of them to do it the other one may follow
21:49:05 [Ryladog]
MC: If we can make that true then we should
21:49:53 [jcraig]
s/If we get one of them to do it the other one may follow/If there is a WebKit implementation, and we get either Blink or Firefox to do it, the other one will follow/
21:50:01 [Ryladog]
JS: That is why I was excited about Chrome being part of the WebApps ContentEditable effort
21:50:20 [Ryladog]
JW: We havent heard any comments on our documents?
21:50:31 [Ryladog]
JS: Dominic
21:51:24 [Ryladog]
JC: Yes, we had a discussion - he has some incites into other technologies that I dont have. I think that now it is in an implememntatble state. At the very least for feedback
21:51:55 [Ryladog]
JCL: The main thing that I was waiting on was the UItrigger and UImanipulator
21:52:01 [Ryladog]
JW; for slider
21:52:19 [Ryladog]
JC: Yes that will ahve to wait for my conversation
21:52:46 [Ryladog]
JW: I think folks want it for 1.0
21:53:10 [Ryladog]
JC: Yes I think that is critical for 1.0 - that is why I need this conversation with those folks
21:53:24 [Ryladog]
JC: I have some TBD in there
21:54:07 [Ryladog]
JS: I cannot think of any next steps, we should talk about Andy's request
21:54:27 [Ryladog]
JC: Andy's promary concern is about User Contexts
21:54:40 [Ryladog]
JC: I have seen any feedback from him recently
21:54:56 [Ryladog]
JS: I think that is correcct
21:55:30 [Ryladog]
JC: I would like to get his feedback on that and how GPII and other would fit into this API
21:55:38 [Ryladog]
JC: Maybe we can split the time
21:56:13 [Ryladog]
JC: the alternating time didnt really workout. I would liek to see feedback form him if he even thinks this will work
21:56:31 [Ryladog]
JS: I think the answer is going to be this hour of the day - but which day?
21:56:32 [jcraig]
/ example of taxonomy- or vendor-prefixed settings proposals, intended for standardization.
21:56:32 [jcraig]
21:56:33 [jcraig]
21:56:42 [jcraig]
21:56:55 [Ryladog]
JC: My schedule is getting tighter and tighter
21:57:07 [jcraig]
/ Andy, we could use the same approach for gpii
21:57:07 [jcraig]
21:57:28 [jcraig]
or the other taxonomies
21:58:02 [Ryladog]
JW: Is goingto be makinga major move - I would need to get acclimated to US and the new job
21:58:24 [Ryladog]
JC: make a nice adding to WebKit this week
21:58:32 [Ryladog]
TK: yes
21:58:44 [Ryladog]
JS: We need to stick with this hour
21:58:58 [jcraig]
s/make a nice adding to WebKit this week/Takashi made an ARIA edit to WebKit this week. Thanks for that./
21:59:22 [Ryladog]
JS: so we do have some flexibility. We have these seperate events. I would only like us to chneg it once. Maybe some one off sof rnow
21:59:40 [Ryladog]
JW: I will try to make the temp meetings
22:00:10 [Ryladog]
JCl When is your move Jason?
22:00:26 [Ryladog]
JW: Early September or October
22:03:21 [Ryladog]
zakim, make minutes
22:03:21 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'make minutes', Ryladog
22:03:35 [jcraig]
rrsagent, make minutes
22:03:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate jcraig
22:03:46 [Ryladog]
rrsagent, make minutes
22:03:46 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Ryladog
22:06:20 [Zakim]
22:07:11 [Zakim]
22:07:12 [Zakim]
22:07:12 [Zakim]
22:07:14 [Zakim]
22:07:15 [Zakim]
22:07:16 [Zakim]
WAI_Indie()5:00PM has ended
22:07:16 [Zakim]
Attendees were janina, jasonjgw, kurosawa, Michael_Cooper, Katie_Haritos-Shea, jcraig
22:07:47 [Ryladog]
22:08:32 [Ryladog]
rrsagent, make minutes
22:08:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Ryladog
22:09:10 [Ryladog]
22:09:50 [Ryladog]
22:10:08 [Ryladog]
s/programmmaticall y/programmatically
22:10:36 [Ryladog]
22:10:52 [Ryladog]
22:11:14 [Ryladog]
22:11:20 [Ryladog]
rrsagent, make minutes
22:11:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Ryladog
22:12:23 [Ryladog]
22:12:50 [Ryladog]
s/goingto/going to
22:13:35 [Ryladog]
trackbot, status?
22:13:56 [Ryladog]
rrsagent, stop log
22:13:56 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'stop log', Ryladog. Try /msg RRSAgent help
22:14:15 [Ryladog]
zakim, please part
22:14:15 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #indie-ui
22:14:28 [Ryladog]
zakim, bye
22:14:43 [Ryladog]
22:14:54 [Ryladog]
22:15:02 [Ryladog]
s/programmmaticall y/programmatically
22:15:10 [Ryladog]
22:15:18 [Ryladog]
22:15:25 [Ryladog]
22:15:35 [Ryladog]
22:15:46 [Ryladog]
s/goingto/going to
22:16:17 [Ryladog]
rrsagent, draft minutes
22:16:17 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Ryladog
22:17:39 [Ryladog]
+ James Craig
22:17:50 [Ryladog]
+ Janina Sajka
22:17:57 [Ryladog]
+ Michael Cooper
22:18:04 [Ryladog]
+ Jason White
22:18:37 [Ryladog]
+ Takeshi Kurosawa
22:19:19 [Ryladog]
rrsagent, please part
22:19:19 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items