IRC log of tt on 2014-07-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/07/17-tt-irc
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RRSAgent, make logs public
13:59:06 [Zakim]
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Zakim, this will be TTML
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ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
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Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
13:59:09 [trackbot]
Date: 17 July 2014
14:00:08 [Zakim]
SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has now started
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+glenn
14:00:17 [Courtney]
Courtney has joined #tt
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+Thierry
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+nigel
14:00:47 [atai]
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+ +1.408.771.aaaa
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+pal
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pal has joined #tt
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+Andreas
14:01:49 [nigel]
zakim, aaaa is Courtney
14:01:49 [Zakim]
+Courtney; got it
14:02:07 [nigel]
chair: nigel
14:02:55 [nigel]
Regrets: plh
14:03:53 [nigel]
scribeNick: nigel
14:05:19 [nigel]
Present: glenn, Thierry, nigel, atai, Courtney, pal
14:06:39 [nigel]
topic: Prioritise discussion for this meeting
14:07:08 [nigel]
thierry: Can we put a deadline for the F2F?
14:07:18 [nigel]
nigel: I've opened the questionnaire until 15th August.
14:07:51 [nigel]
thierry: Can we encourage everyone to attend and/or complete the registration form?
14:08:06 [nigel]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/34314/TTWG_Geneva_F2F_Planning/
14:08:20 [nigel]
topic: Geneva f2f
14:09:01 [nigel]
Courtney: re the agenda, spending a long time on the code/tests for the transforms is really important so I'm glad it's on the agenda.
14:09:19 [nigel]
... I'm largely happy with the agenda as it stands.
14:09:43 [nigel]
https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/geneva2014
14:11:21 [nigel]
atai: We want to propose a mapping from a restricted TTML subset to WebVTT
14:11:59 [nigel]
glenn: One point of advice for that mapping: The best approach is to map TTML document to an ISD sequence, and then map the individual ISDs to VTT cues.
14:12:41 [nigel]
... my plan is to include in TTML2 a formal definition of an interchangeable form of a sequence of ISD documents. I'll probably define a format: either a single XML document where each child is an ISD document
14:13:04 [nigel]
... and maybe a second format that is a ZIPped sequence of ISDs with a specific naming format to sequence them in the ZIP file.
14:14:38 [nigel]
nigel: That's an interesting point because there's an alternative which is to create a cue per piece of text with a distinct lifetime, by semantic analysis of the document. I can see merits to both.
14:14:49 [nigel]
glenn: I may have some working code by the F2F to drive some discussion.
14:15:10 [nigel]
topic: Action Items
14:15:32 [nigel]
action-296?
14:15:32 [trackbot]
action-296 -- Glenn Adams to Define default for @validationaction to be warn if @validation is optional; otherwise, default is abort -- due 2014-06-12 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:15:32 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/296
14:16:30 [nigel]
close action-296
14:16:30 [trackbot]
Closed action-296.
14:16:35 [nigel]
action-302
14:16:35 [trackbot]
action-302 -- Nigel Megitt to Re-review issue-313 -- due 2014-06-26 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:16:36 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/302
14:17:20 [nigel]
issue-313?
14:17:20 [trackbot]
issue-313 -- Presented Region section is informative only -- open
14:17:20 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/313
14:18:12 [nigel]
close action-302
14:18:12 [trackbot]
Closed action-302.
14:20:57 [nigel]
issue-313: An acceptable proposal would be to change the wording in §4.6.1 specifically to define the term "Presented region".
14:20:57 [trackbot]
Notes added to issue-313 Presented Region section is informative only.
14:21:22 [nigel]
action-303?
14:21:22 [trackbot]
action-303 -- Nigel Megitt to Add priority column to change proposal index -- due 2014-06-26 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:21:22 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/303
14:21:59 [nigel]
https://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/ChangeProposalIndex
14:23:49 [nigel]
nigel: I've added the priority column - please could the owners of each change proposal now review each and edit the index page to assign the appropriate priority value.
14:24:05 [nigel]
... We can use this to choose which issues and changes to tackle soonest.
14:24:21 [nigel]
close action-303
14:24:21 [trackbot]
Closed action-303.
14:25:32 [nigel]
ACTION: glenn Assign priorities to change proposals owned by glenn
14:25:32 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-304 - Assign priorities to change proposals owned by glenn [on Glenn Adams - due 2014-07-24].
14:25:46 [nigel]
ACTION: pal Assign priorities to change proposals owned by pal
14:25:46 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-305 - Assign priorities to change proposals owned by pal [on Pierre-Anthony Lemieux - due 2014-07-24].
14:25:58 [nigel]
ACTION: jdsmith Assign priorities to change proposals owned by jdsmith
14:25:58 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-306 - Assign priorities to change proposals owned by jdsmith [on Jerry Smith - due 2014-07-24].
14:26:08 [nigel]
ACTION: mdolan Assign priorities to change proposals owned by mdolan
14:26:08 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-307 - Assign priorities to change proposals owned by mdolan [on Mike Dolan - due 2014-07-24].
14:26:42 [nigel]
action-207?
14:26:42 [trackbot]
action-207 -- Glenn Adams to Add round-down clarification to "closest" language, see issue-259 -- due 2014-04-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:26:42 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/207
14:27:45 [nigel]
glenn: I've implemented this clarification.
14:29:05 [nigel]
glenn: I've clarified the distinction between scalar and vector component comparisons for border and padding. There was also a comment about rounding up vs down.
14:29:34 [nigel]
... For extent and lineHeight we round up so I added a comment on extent that explains the rationale for this.
14:29:40 [nigel]
nigel: Looks good to me.
14:30:52 [nigel]
pal: I'll take a look.
14:31:06 [nigel]
action-258?
14:31:06 [trackbot]
action-258 -- Glenn Adams to Work with pal to resolve edits needed for issue-259 comments -- due 2014-04-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:31:06 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/258
14:31:42 [nigel]
glenn: this is related to action-207.
14:31:44 [Zakim]
-Thierry
14:33:02 [nigel]
topic: Issues
14:33:12 [nigel]
issue-263?
14:33:12 [trackbot]
issue-263 -- profile feature set may not match intended feature constraints -- pending review
14:33:12 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/263
14:33:44 [Zakim]
+Thierry
14:33:49 [nigel]
glenn: I think we're looking for Mike's review of this.
14:34:18 [nigel]
issue-316?
14:34:18 [trackbot]
issue-316 -- Wording of 5.2 doesn't make sense -- pending review
14:34:18 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/316
14:35:24 [nigel]
close issue-316
14:35:24 [trackbot]
Closed issue-316.
14:36:16 [nigel]
issue-309?
14:36:16 [trackbot]
issue-309 -- Image profile needs to permit text equivalent -- open
14:36:16 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/309
14:38:18 [nigel]
nigel: We met the accessibility folk on Monday. The feeling is that as long as there's availability of a text equivalent and a method to find it then the WCAG requirement is met.
14:38:36 [nigel]
pal: Reviewing the changes I've made:
14:39:42 [nigel]
https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml-ww-profiles/ttml-ww-profiles.html
14:39:56 [nigel]
... in §3.1 the text is clarified to say that distributors should provide a text form of image data that the system can find automatically.
14:40:31 [nigel]
... in §4.5.4 there's an altText attribute to allow a text string to be added.
14:40:34 [nigel]
q+
14:41:03 [nigel]
ack nigel
14:41:21 [nigel]
nigel: The normative text doesn't mention accessibility - shouldn't it?
14:42:05 [nigel]
pal: The harm for IMSC to say MAY have accessibility is we don't want accessibility /only/ to be in the alt text because it's better to have a complete alternate text profile document.
14:42:49 [nigel]
pal: Of course there's no prohibition on usage of altText but it's not at all a recommendation.
14:44:23 [nigel]
glenn: defining the contents as #PCDATA is appropriate for an element that can contain text.
14:45:12 [nigel]
atai: This section says "{any attribute not in the IMSC 1.0 Metadata namespace}" which would allow any attribute in TTML 1 namespace, which doesn't seem right.
14:45:40 [nigel]
glenn: That's correct - the table near the top of TTML defines all the tt namespaces that should not be permitted here.
14:46:32 [nigel]
pal: I'll change it to "any attribute not in the default namespace or in the TT namespace or in the IMSC 1.0 Metadata namespace"
14:46:54 [nigel]
s/Metadata /
14:47:53 [nigel]
pal: John Birch provided some text re WCAG so I've moved that to Annex C.
14:47:57 [nigel]
q+
14:48:06 [nigel]
ack nigel
14:49:39 [nigel]
nigel: The term "application" has been used in various places normatively so I think it needs to be defined.
14:49:44 [nigel]
pal: Or I could remove it.
14:49:52 [nigel]
nigel: Either way - but application is used in several places now.
14:52:44 [nigel]
nigel: I wonder if we should say "In order to meet the guidelines of [WCAG20] the following considerations apply:"
14:52:50 [nigel]
pal: I like that.
14:53:18 [nigel]
pal: I'll create an issue prior to committing those changes.
14:53:55 [nigel]
pal: I've added in Annex D.5 the #altText extension designator is defined.
14:54:44 [nigel]
nigel: I think the #altText extension needs to be added to §6.4.
14:54:46 [nigel]
pal: I'll add that.
14:56:25 [nigel]
glenn: I just added a new issue for IMSC - issue-326.
14:56:47 [nigel]
issue-317?
14:56:47 [trackbot]
issue-317 -- IMSC should not require frame alignment -- open
14:56:47 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/317
14:57:21 [nigel]
pal: I've added a note that hopefully captures the use case.
14:57:36 [nigel]
... in §4.4
15:01:16 [nigel]
nigel: We're close on this one but I need to come back with some proposals for edits.
15:06:24 [nigel]
nigel: adjourns meeting
15:06:49 [Zakim]
-Andreas
15:07:49 [nigel]
rrsagent, generate minutes
15:07:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/17-tt-minutes.html nigel
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-Courtney
15:08:01 [Zakim]
-glenn
15:08:04 [Zakim]
-Thierry
15:08:06 [Zakim]
-pal
15:08:10 [Zakim]
-nigel
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SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has ended
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Attendees were glenn, Thierry, nigel, +1.408.771.aaaa, pal, Andreas, Courtney
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