IRC log of i18nits on 2014-07-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

11:50:32 [RRSAgent]
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11:50:32 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/07/16-i18nits-irc
11:50:35 [fsasaki]
meeting: ITS IG
11:50:46 [fsasaki]
chair: felix
11:51:01 [fsasaki]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Jul/0013.html
11:51:19 [fsasaki]
regrets: dave, tatiana, olaf-michael
11:51:32 [fsasaki]
topic: roll call
11:51:37 [fsasaki]
checking attendance
11:51:41 [fsasaki]
present+ fsasaki
11:52:57 [philr]
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present+ philr
12:02:32 [fsasaki]
present+ serge
12:02:35 [Serge_Gladkoff]
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12:03:02 [fsasaki]
topic: feedback on "Open Data Management position statement"
12:03:15 [fsasaki]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Jul/0017.html
12:04:39 [fsasaki]
serge: if there is a public service which will enable content to be published automatically, everbody will be affected
12:04:57 [fsasaki]
.. we need to provision some hocking points for communities that will be engaged
12:05:06 [fsasaki]
.. to indicate that they will participate
12:05:22 [fsasaki]
.. want to demonstrate that this is relevant to them as well
12:05:29 [dF]
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12:05:32 [fsasaki]
.. if you speak to data annotaiton to the public, they will say "what?"
12:05:38 [dF]
present+ dF
12:05:40 [fsasaki]
.. definitely LT community will be affected
12:05:50 [dF]
will join audio shortly
12:05:57 [fsasaki]
.. language service community will also be affected
12:06:06 [fsasaki]
.. e.g. preparing data, testing, other stuff
12:06:17 [fsasaki]
.. so we need to mention them
12:06:29 [fsasaki]
.. so some simple language that makes that clear
12:07:34 [fsasaki]
.. then about providing feedback: nobody will do that blindly
12:07:48 [fsasaki]
.. in the future that will be avail. for automatically translated data too
12:07:59 [fsasaki]
.. it has to be in the data itself - the feedback
12:08:19 [fsasaki]
.. in industry sector there is much talking about European language cloud
12:08:26 [fsasaki]
.. but there is no detailed info about this
12:08:36 [fsasaki]
.. but if we use the token, people will find the document
12:08:53 [fsasaki]
.. so it is an important keyword to place
12:10:40 [fsasaki]
serge: this is a very important document, I like it
12:10:52 [fsasaki]
.. it is laying out good foundation for public services and automated translation
12:11:07 [fsasaki]
.. but it is important to lay place for future engagement of other stakeholders
12:11:14 [fsasaki]
.. now to B: quality measurement
12:11:26 [fsasaki]
.. I don't see it practical to blindly publish material
12:11:34 [Jirka]
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12:11:36 [fsasaki]
.. to some extend it has be manual, to some extend automatic
12:11:42 [fsasaki]
present+ jirka
12:12:00 [fsasaki]
serge: things have to be in the data, that is the concept
12:12:09 [fsasaki]
.. that is why I believe that ITS LQI is important here
12:13:18 [fsasaki]
felix mentioning linked data represention of ITS and MQM (ongoing) as a nice way to move quality aspect in data world forward
12:13:34 [fsasaki]
serge: mentioning ITS and RDF would be appropriate here I think
12:14:54 [fsasaki]
.. about point 1: previous draft had a question "what is standards?"
12:15:10 [fsasaki]
.. one should mention ITS and RDF, and the standards bodies that are concerned with those
12:15:19 [fsasaki]
.. no two: reference model graphics: it has QA component
12:15:26 [fsasaki]
.. but I don't think it is an industry term
12:15:49 [fsasaki]
.. the term encompasses severa items - strictly speaking it is a standards components box
12:16:11 [fsasaki]
.. before MQM and DQF and the QTLP project, there was an incorrect notion
12:16:25 [fsasaki]
.. if you improve the process the quality will improve by itself
12:16:34 [fsasaki]
.. that is a problem of many quality related standards
12:16:58 [fsasaki]
.. that is why something like MQM is rquired: you need to be able to build the metrics
12:17:11 [fsasaki]
.. many companies provide LQ assurance as a separate process step
12:17:17 [fsasaki]
.. clearly this is a building block
12:17:35 [fsasaki]
.. also required for full automatic translation
12:17:46 [fsasaki]
.. and that is why qtlp started and mqm came up
12:18:06 [fsasaki]
.. LQA is an industry term, one should refer to that
12:18:28 [fsasaki]
now number 3:
12:18:46 [fsasaki]
.. we need to change data mgmt requirement 5 to m (mandatory)
12:19:04 [fsasaki]
.. without a feedback channel it will not be possible to improve machine translation
12:19:12 [fsasaki]
.. it should not be optional, but mandatory
12:19:28 [fsasaki]
.. like google, which allows you to edit mt text
12:19:32 [fsasaki]
.. point 4:
12:21:09 [fsasaki]
.. proposal to improve requirement 5
12:21:15 [fsasaki]
.. point 5:
12:21:34 [fsasaki]
.. one should mention here MQM
12:21:44 [fsasaki]
.. with all these changes this document will be more complete
12:21:52 [fsasaki]
.. about point C:
12:22:08 [fsasaki]
.. we have a certain lack of stakeholders for the doc
12:22:18 [fsasaki]
.. need to do certain outreach that will engage relevant stakeholders
12:22:31 [fsasaki]
.. right now list of contributors is quite narrow
12:23:06 [fsasaki]
.. one of the recent calls there was a question: why was there no call for comment to industry?
12:23:38 [fsasaki]
.. with this changes the document is in a good shape to give feedback to wider industry
12:23:50 [fsasaki]
.. one should initiate wider feedback
12:26:48 [fsasaki]
discussion on how to move the docuemnt forward - felix saying that there is time for that, no need to hurry, and now we can reach out to outside telling: give your input
12:27:03 [fsasaki]
serge: I would reach out to others and say: this is our current state
12:27:26 [fsasaki]
.. one should contact projects and say: please provide input
12:28:47 [fsasaki]
felix: happy to send out in MLI for feedback
12:29:00 [fsasaki]
action: felix to draft outreach mail for doc for others to re-use
12:29:00 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-49 - Draft outreach mail for doc for others to re-use [on Felix Sasaki - due 2014-07-23].
12:29:31 [fsasaki]
serge: we can solicit feedback from gala, we have a huge list of contacts
12:29:47 [fsasaki]
action: serge to draft outreach mail for doc for others to re-use
12:29:47 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-50 - Draft outreach mail for doc for others to re-use [on Serge Gladkoff - due 2014-07-23].
12:29:55 [fsasaki]
close action-49
12:29:55 [trackbot]
Closed action-49.
12:30:45 [fsasaki]
david: nothing I disagree with, looking into it now
12:30:56 [fsasaki]
.. many aspects are preparatory, but that is important
12:31:10 [fsasaki]
... standard emphasis, interchange capabilities
12:32:00 [fsasaki]
topic: XLIFF related points
12:32:09 [fsasaki]
david: XLIFF 2.0 majority vote passed yesterday
12:32:21 [fsasaki]
.. that means: within a week OASIS membership vote will start
12:32:34 [fsasaki]
.. that is like: after WG makes something final it goes to AC vote
12:32:45 [fsasaki]
.. so all OASIS members will vote
12:32:51 [fsasaki]
.. there are currently 283 members
12:32:58 [fsasaki]
.. only contributors or sponsors can vote
12:33:09 [fsasaki]
.. we need to get at least 43 votes to get OASIS standard label
12:33:12 [fsasaki]
.. it is not so easy
12:33:23 [fsasaki]
.. out of 283 I know only 20 are on the TC
12:33:41 [fsasaki]
.. we really need to get some help to reach out to primary representatives to get positive votes
12:34:26 [fsasaki]
.. I have a list of OASIS members who are also in W3C, 32 orgs. So AC rep in W3C may be the same like OASIS
12:34:44 [fsasaki]
.. I think it would help to make AC reps aware of this development
12:38:01 [fsasaki]
felix: focus on technical aspect of relation between XLIFF2 and ITS2, not so much relation between standards bodies
12:38:06 [fsasaki]
david: like tech approach here
12:38:35 [fsasaki]
.. explain that bitext is needed in multilingual transformation, here is the relationship
12:38:45 [fsasaki]
.. it solves the problem, preserve the metadata
12:40:54 [fsasaki]
discussion on OASIS support and W3C support rules
12:42:13 [fsasaki]
jirka: for docbook it was easy
12:42:37 [fsasaki]
david: we do it the way you did: finding contact owners for companies
12:42:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/16-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
12:44:16 [fsasaki]
david: need to freeze wiki mapping as a snapshot
12:44:29 [fsasaki]
.. stop in the ITS IG and make this an XLIFF 2.1 features
12:44:34 [fsasaki]
s/features/feature/
12:45:18 [fsasaki]
serge: what stage is xliff 2.1 in?
12:45:23 [fsasaki]
david: TC decided to work on it
12:45:37 [fsasaki]
.. there is informal consensus on the features that should be in:
12:45:59 [fsasaki]
.. the oasis admin is aware that we are working on it
12:46:16 [fsasaki]
.. the timeline is: at feistiltt people agreed on releasing minor version yearly
12:46:28 [fsasaki]
.. for 2.1 there should be deadline for reference implementations in November
12:46:34 [fsasaki]
.. january - may should be spent on admin steps
12:46:45 [fsasaki]
.. tech stuff should be achieved betwee the summer and November
12:46:57 [fsasaki]
david: feature set is narrow
12:47:05 [fsasaki]
.. but big features. two major features:
12:47:09 [fsasaki]
.. offical ITS support
12:47:27 [fsasaki]
.. a lot of ITS features are possible in xliff as extentions
12:47:33 [fsasaki]
.. but a module is a better status for the feature
12:47:43 [fsasaki]
.. the ITS support should become and official part of the spec
12:48:02 [fsasaki]
.. ITS may be several modules to avoid interdepencies
12:48:11 [fsasaki]
.. the other feature is advanced validation support
12:48:17 [fsasaki]
.. that is why felix joined the TC
12:48:31 [fsasaki]
s/why/also why/
12:51:10 [fsasaki]
(discussion on validation topic in oasis)
12:54:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/16-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
12:54:24 [fsasaki]
serge: happy to create news item for the industry about this
12:54:27 [fsasaki]
david: great
12:54:53 [fsasaki]
david: it is not yet recorded as an offical feature yet because of summer vacations etc.
12:56:12 [fsasaki]
serge: will create a blurb from the minutes, for you to approve
12:56:23 [fsasaki]
david: would be great to make some fuzz about XLIFF 2.0 becoming a standard
12:56:31 [fsasaki]
.. CNGL will make a press release about that
12:56:53 [fsasaki]
serge: I'll do that too
12:57:29 [fsasaki]
david: you can announce xliff as a standard, saying that the final vote is happening these dates
12:57:45 [fsasaki]
.. I will forward the notification to this group so that you know that it is official
12:58:21 [fsasaki]
topic: feisgiltt event
12:58:32 [fsasaki]
david: will have a feisgiltt event in vancouver
12:58:58 [fsasaki]
.. it overlaps with w3c tpac unfortunately but it is important to raise standards awareness in loc community
12:59:19 [fsasaki]
.. focus will be on TBX/RDF, ITS mapping etc. - an outreach effort, bring the news to north america
12:59:29 [fsasaki]
.. if you have any input to call for paper, let me know
12:59:41 [fsasaki]
.. we are using same PC that we had for Dublin feisgiltt
13:01:05 [philr]
Apologies, I have to leave for another meeting.
13:01:40 [fsasaki]
topic: automated translation doc again
13:01:48 [fsasaki]
serge: added ITS/RDF to https://www.w3.org/International/its/wiki/Open_Data_Management_for_Public_Automated_Translation_Services#Terminology , need some links
13:01:54 [fsasaki]
felix: I'll add the links
13:02:33 [dF]
https://www.oasis-open.org/news/announcements/60-day-public-review-for-xliff-version-2-0-candidate-oasis-standard-ends-july-5th
13:03:02 [fsasaki]
topic: aob
13:03:04 [fsasaki]
adjourned
13:03:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/16-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
13:14:16 [camille]
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14:21:11 [fsasaki]
regrets+ cLieske
14:21:13 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/16-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki