11:50:32 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18nits
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11:50:35 <fsasaki> meeting: ITS IG
11:50:46 <fsasaki> chair: felix
11:51:01 <fsasaki> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Jul/0013.html
11:51:19 <fsasaki> regrets: dave, tatiana, olaf-michael
11:51:32 <fsasaki> topic: roll call
11:51:37 <fsasaki> checking attendance
11:51:41 <fsasaki> present+ fsasaki
11:52:57 <philr> philr has joined #i18nits
11:53:05 <philr> present+ philr
12:02:32 <fsasaki> present+ serge
12:02:35 <Serge_Gladkoff> Serge_Gladkoff has joined #i18nits
12:03:02 <fsasaki> topic: feedback on "Open Data Management position statement"
12:03:15 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Jul/0017.html
12:04:39 <fsasaki> serge: if there is a public service which will enable content to be published automatically, everbody will be affected
12:04:57 <fsasaki> .. we need to provision some hocking points for communities that will be engaged
12:05:06 <fsasaki> .. to indicate that they will participate
12:05:22 <fsasaki> .. want to demonstrate that this is relevant to them as well
12:05:29 <dF> dF has joined #i18nits
12:05:32 <fsasaki> .. if you speak to data annotaiton to the public, they will say "what?"
12:05:38 <dF> present+ dF
12:05:40 <fsasaki> .. definitely LT community will be affected
12:05:50 <dF> will join audio shortly
12:05:57 <fsasaki> .. language service community will also be affected
12:06:06 <fsasaki> .. e.g. preparing data, testing, other stuff
12:06:17 <fsasaki> .. so we need to mention them
12:06:29 <fsasaki> .. so some simple language that makes that clear
12:07:34 <fsasaki> .. then about providing feedback: nobody will do that blindly
12:07:48 <fsasaki> .. in the future that will be avail. for automatically translated data too
12:07:59 <fsasaki> .. it has to be in the data itself - the feedback
12:08:19 <fsasaki> .. in industry sector there is much talking about European language cloud
12:08:26 <fsasaki> .. but there is no detailed info about this
12:08:36 <fsasaki> .. but if we use the token, people will find the document
12:08:53 <fsasaki> .. so it is an important keyword to place
12:10:40 <fsasaki> serge: this is a very important document, I like it
12:10:52 <fsasaki> .. it is laying out good foundation for public services and automated translation
12:11:07 <fsasaki> .. but it is important to lay place for future engagement of other stakeholders
12:11:14 <fsasaki> .. now to B: quality measurement
12:11:26 <fsasaki> .. I don't see it practical to blindly publish material
12:11:34 <Jirka> Jirka has joined #i18nits
12:11:36 <fsasaki> .. to some extend it has be manual, to some extend automatic
12:11:42 <fsasaki> present+ jirka
12:12:00 <fsasaki> serge: things have to be in the data, that is the concept
12:12:09 <fsasaki> .. that is why I believe that ITS LQI is important here
12:13:18 <fsasaki> felix mentioning linked data represention of ITS and MQM (ongoing) as a nice way to move quality aspect in data world forward
12:13:34 <fsasaki> serge: mentioning ITS and RDF would be appropriate here I think
12:14:54 <fsasaki> .. about point 1: previous draft had a question "what is standards?"
12:15:10 <fsasaki> .. one should mention ITS and RDF, and the standards bodies that are concerned with those
12:15:19 <fsasaki> .. no two: reference model graphics: it has QA component
12:15:26 <fsasaki> .. but I don't think it is an industry term
12:15:49 <fsasaki> .. the term encompasses severa items - strictly speaking it is a standards components box
12:16:11 <fsasaki> .. before MQM and DQF and the QTLP project, there was an incorrect notion
12:16:25 <fsasaki> .. if you improve the process the quality will improve by itself
12:16:34 <fsasaki> .. that is a problem of many quality related standards
12:16:58 <fsasaki> .. that is why something like MQM is rquired: you need to be able to build the metrics
12:17:11 <fsasaki> .. many companies provide LQ assurance as a separate process step
12:17:17 <fsasaki> .. clearly this is a building block
12:17:35 <fsasaki> .. also required for full automatic translation
12:17:46 <fsasaki> .. and that is why qtlp started and mqm came up
12:18:06 <fsasaki> .. LQA is an industry term, one should refer to that
12:18:28 <fsasaki> now number 3:
12:18:46 <fsasaki> .. we need to change data mgmt requirement 5 to m (mandatory)
12:19:04 <fsasaki> .. without a feedback channel it will not be possible to improve machine translation
12:19:12 <fsasaki> .. it should not be optional, but mandatory
12:19:28 <fsasaki> .. like google, which allows you to edit mt text
12:19:32 <fsasaki> .. point 4:
12:21:09 <fsasaki> .. proposal to improve requirement 5
12:21:15 <fsasaki> .. point 5:
12:21:34 <fsasaki> .. one should mention here MQM
12:21:44 <fsasaki> .. with all these changes this document will be more complete
12:21:52 <fsasaki> .. about point C:
12:22:08 <fsasaki> .. we have a certain lack of stakeholders for the doc
12:22:18 <fsasaki> .. need to do certain outreach that will engage relevant stakeholders
12:22:31 <fsasaki> .. right now list of contributors is quite narrow
12:23:06 <fsasaki> .. one of the recent calls there was a question: why was there no call for comment to industry?
12:23:38 <fsasaki> .. with this changes the document is in a good shape to give feedback to wider industry
12:23:50 <fsasaki> .. one should initiate wider feedback
12:26:48 <fsasaki> discussion on how to move the docuemnt forward - felix saying that there is time for that, no need to hurry, and now we can reach out to outside telling: give your input
12:27:03 <fsasaki> serge: I would reach out to others and say: this is our current state
12:27:26 <fsasaki> .. one should contact projects and say: please provide input
12:28:47 <fsasaki> felix: happy to send out in MLI for feedback
12:29:00 <fsasaki> action: felix to draft outreach mail for doc for others to re-use
12:29:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-49 - Draft outreach mail for doc for others to re-use [on Felix Sasaki - due 2014-07-23].
12:29:31 <fsasaki> serge: we can solicit feedback from gala, we have a huge list of contacts
12:29:47 <fsasaki> action: serge to draft outreach mail for doc for others to re-use
12:29:47 <trackbot> Created ACTION-50 - Draft outreach mail for doc for others to re-use [on Serge Gladkoff - due 2014-07-23].
12:29:55 <fsasaki> close action-49
12:29:55 <trackbot> Closed action-49.
12:30:45 <fsasaki> david: nothing I disagree with, looking into it now
12:30:56 <fsasaki> .. many aspects are preparatory, but that is important
12:31:10 <fsasaki> ... standard emphasis, interchange capabilities
12:32:00 <fsasaki> topic: XLIFF related points
12:32:09 <fsasaki> david: XLIFF 2.0 majority vote passed yesterday
12:32:21 <fsasaki> .. that means: within a week OASIS membership vote will start
12:32:34 <fsasaki> .. that is like: after WG makes something final it goes to AC vote
12:32:45 <fsasaki> .. so all OASIS members will vote
12:32:51 <fsasaki> .. there are currently 283 members
12:32:58 <fsasaki> .. only contributors or sponsors can vote
12:33:09 <fsasaki> .. we need to get at least 43 votes to get OASIS standard label
12:33:12 <fsasaki> .. it is not so easy
12:33:23 <fsasaki> .. out of 283 I know only 20 are on the TC
12:33:41 <fsasaki> .. we really need to get some help to reach out to primary representatives to get positive votes
12:34:26 <fsasaki> .. I have a list of OASIS members who are also in W3C, 32 orgs. So AC rep in W3C may be the same like OASIS
12:34:44 <fsasaki> .. I think it would help to make AC reps aware of this development
12:38:01 <fsasaki> felix: focus on technical aspect of relation between XLIFF2 and ITS2, not so much relation between standards bodies
12:38:06 <fsasaki> david: like tech approach here
12:38:35 <fsasaki> .. explain that bitext is needed in multilingual transformation, here is the relationship
12:38:45 <fsasaki> .. it solves the problem, preserve the metadata
12:40:54 <fsasaki> discussion on OASIS support and W3C support rules
12:42:13 <fsasaki> jirka: for docbook it was easy
12:42:37 <fsasaki> david: we do it the way you did: finding contact owners for companies
12:42:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/16-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
12:44:16 <fsasaki> david: need to freeze wiki mapping as a snapshot
12:44:29 <fsasaki> .. stop in the ITS IG and make this an XLIFF 2.1 features
12:44:34 <fsasaki> s/features/feature/
12:45:18 <fsasaki> serge: what stage is xliff 2.1 in?
12:45:23 <fsasaki> david: TC decided to work on it
12:45:37 <fsasaki> .. there is informal consensus on the features that should be in:
12:45:59 <fsasaki> .. the oasis admin is aware that we are working on it
12:46:16 <fsasaki> .. the timeline is: at feistiltt people agreed on releasing minor version yearly
12:46:28 <fsasaki> .. for 2.1 there should be deadline for reference implementations in November
12:46:34 <fsasaki> .. january - may should be spent on admin steps
12:46:45 <fsasaki> .. tech stuff should be achieved betwee the summer and November
12:46:57 <fsasaki> david: feature set is narrow
12:47:05 <fsasaki> .. but big features. two major features:
12:47:09 <fsasaki> .. offical ITS support
12:47:27 <fsasaki> .. a lot of ITS features are possible in xliff as extentions
12:47:33 <fsasaki> .. but a module is a better status for the feature
12:47:43 <fsasaki> .. the ITS support should become and official part of the spec
12:48:02 <fsasaki> .. ITS may be several modules to avoid interdepencies
12:48:11 <fsasaki> .. the other feature is advanced validation support
12:48:17 <fsasaki> .. that is why felix joined the TC
12:48:31 <fsasaki> s/why/also why/
12:51:10 <fsasaki> (discussion on validation topic in oasis)
12:54:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/16-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
12:54:24 <fsasaki> serge: happy to create news item for the industry about this
12:54:27 <fsasaki> david: great
12:54:53 <fsasaki> david: it is not yet recorded as an offical feature yet because of summer vacations etc.
12:56:12 <fsasaki> serge: will create a blurb from the minutes, for you to approve
12:56:23 <fsasaki> david: would be great to make some fuzz about XLIFF 2.0 becoming a standard
12:56:31 <fsasaki> .. CNGL will make a press release about that
12:56:53 <fsasaki> serge: I'll do that too
12:57:29 <fsasaki> david: you can announce xliff as a standard, saying that the final vote is happening these dates
12:57:45 <fsasaki> .. I will forward the notification to this group so that you know that it is official
12:58:21 <fsasaki> topic: feisgiltt event
12:58:32 <fsasaki> david: will have a feisgiltt event in vancouver
12:58:58 <fsasaki> .. it overlaps with w3c tpac unfortunately but it is important to raise standards awareness in loc community
12:59:19 <fsasaki> .. focus will be on TBX/RDF, ITS mapping etc. - an outreach effort, bring the news to north america
12:59:29 <fsasaki> .. if you have any input to call for paper, let me know
12:59:41 <fsasaki> .. we are using same PC that we had for Dublin feisgiltt
13:01:05 <philr> Apologies, I have to leave for another meeting.
13:01:40 <fsasaki> topic: automated translation doc again
13:01:48 <fsasaki> serge: added ITS/RDF to https://www.w3.org/International/its/wiki/Open_Data_Management_for_Public_Automated_Translation_Services#Terminology , need some links
13:01:54 <fsasaki> felix: I'll add the links
13:02:33 <dF> https://www.oasis-open.org/news/announcements/60-day-public-review-for-xliff-version-2-0-candidate-oasis-standard-ends-july-5th
13:03:02 <fsasaki> topic: aob
13:03:04 <fsasaki> adjourned
13:03:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/16-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
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14:21:11 <fsasaki> regrets+ cLieske
14:21:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/16-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki