15:52:55 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #audio
15:52:55 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/07/10-audio-irc
15:52:57 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:52:59 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 28346
15:53:00 <trackbot> Meeting: Audio Working Group Teleconference
15:53:00 <trackbot> Date: 10 July 2014
15:53:25 <olivier> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2014JulSep/0021.html
15:53:30 <olivier> Chair: olivier
15:58:43 <olivier> olivier has changed the topic to: W3C Audio WG
15:59:16 <kawai> kawai has joined #audio
16:00:43 <cwilso_> zakim, who is here?
16:00:58 <cwilso_> ahh.
16:01:01 <cwilso_> so I see.
16:02:16 <olivier> Present: cwilso, kawai, rtoyg_, shepazu, olivier
16:02:42 <olivier> Present+: jer
16:03:43 <jernoble> jernoble has joined #audio
16:03:55 <jernoble> zakim, who is on the call?
16:04:18 <jernoble> well, i guess i won't tell it who i am, then. :)
16:04:35 <kawai> Zakim is down mean it is not possible to call?? # sorry for really basic question...
16:04:54 <padenot> kawai: the bridge works, but the irc bot is down
16:05:02 <olivier> Topic: review of action items
16:05:09 <olivier> https://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/agenda
16:05:10 <cwilso> kawai: no, you can still call in to the telecon, just no attendee/agenda management
16:05:28 <olivier> ACTION-104
16:05:28 <trackbot> ACTION-104 -- Paul Adenot to Extract formulas from cookbook -- due 2014-06-26 -- OPEN
16:05:29 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/actions/104
16:05:31 <kawai> cwilso: Thanks!
16:05:45 <olivier> padenot: no progress
16:05:59 <olivier> ACTION-104 due in 2 weeks
16:05:59 <trackbot> Set ACTION-104 Extract formulas from cookbook due date to 2014-07-24.
16:06:12 <shepazu> http://shepazu.github.io/Audio-EQ-Cookbook/audio-eq-cookbook.html
16:06:20 <olivier> action-105
16:06:20 <trackbot> action-105 -- Doug Schepers to Mark up formulas for biquadfilter in mathml (get help from mathjax?) -- due 2014-06-26 -- OPEN
16:06:20 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/actions/105
16:06:31 <olivier> shepazu: collaborating with RBJ
16:07:30 <olivier> ... ASCII math in the original cookbook was a bit odd at times, still working on it
16:07:43 <olivier> ... been working with Peter from Mathjax
16:08:07 <olivier> ... converting ascii math to mathml and using mathjax to render
16:08:26 <olivier> s/Peter/Peter Krautzberger/
16:08:59 <olivier> shepazu: also working on adding structure to make it easier to follow
16:09:10 <olivier> ... RBJ also had suggested changes
16:09:24 <olivier> ... tone is very informal, which may not be best for spec
16:10:25 <olivier> padenot: prefer when docs are in the same tone
16:10:41 <olivier> shepazu: i think we should give instructions on what to do rather than suggest
16:10:48 <olivier> padenot: think that's fine
16:11:41 <olivier> shepazu: second question is whether this will be published as separate doc or part of webaudio spec, as appendix or otherwise
16:12:07 <olivier> padenot: pannernode has all equations inline, which is handy for implementors
16:12:26 <olivier> ... best to keep eqs inline, maybe refer to the full document
16:13:31 <olivier> shepazu: we could do both - as a WG we could publish this doc, cleaned up, as a math overview, informative document (a note)
16:13:44 <olivier> ... as well as extract the math for the spec
16:14:43 <olivier> olivier: why publish separately if we can have stuff inline and add RBJ to acknowledgments?
16:15:00 <olivier> shepazu: give the doc a permanent home, something to reference
16:15:20 <olivier> olivier: good enough rationale
16:15:45 <olivier> shepazu: it's also a better way to give full credit to the author
16:16:17 <olivier> shepazu: 3rd question about mathml (and mathjax for some browsers)
16:16:29 <olivier> ... would be the second spec using mathml
16:16:37 <olivier> ... and the first non-mathml spec using mathml
16:17:53 <olivier> ... propose to require single version of library centrally in w3c space
16:18:28 <olivier> padenot: we should have the lib in the repo, for offline use
16:19:21 <olivier> shepazu: might also want to offer pdf version of the spec
16:20:05 <olivier> ... alternative was to have image fallback, not sure we liked it
16:20:30 <cwilso> q+
16:20:51 <olivier> ack cwilso
16:20:55 <cwilso> q-
16:21:15 <olivier> cwilso: slight pref for not having pdf version unless necessary
16:21:31 <olivier> ... not convinced really needed
16:21:39 <olivier> shepazu: will bring that back to plh
16:21:50 <olivier> ... we have traditionally offered various versions of specs
16:25:19 <olivier> shepazu: also need to figure out what we want to do with references to openal
16:25:35 <olivier> olivier: I failed to find authoritative spec, only implementation code
16:25:50 <olivier> shepazu: if that's the case we may want to remove references, let me chase
16:25:55 <rtoyg_> Is this the spec: http://www.openal.org/documentation/openal-1.1-specification.pdf
16:26:32 <olivier> action-105 due in 2 weeks
16:26:32 <trackbot> Set action-105 Mark up formulas for biquadfilter in mathml (get help from mathjax?) due date to 2014-07-24.
16:27:09 <olivier> action-97 DONE
16:27:14 <olivier> action-97: DONE
16:27:14 <trackbot> Notes added to action-97 Start spreadsheet to triage issues for webaudio api.
16:27:23 <olivier> action-97 CLOSED
16:27:23 <trackbot> Closed action-97.
16:27:37 <olivier> Topic: Prioritisation of issues (now tagging is done)
16:27:38 <olivier> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues
16:28:22 <olivier> olivier: top priority - https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues?labels=Architectural%2FFundamental+%28Breaking+change%29&page=1&state=open
16:29:59 <olivier> ... tagging will influence priorities, we will start with the "architecture" and the "clarifications (require changes)" tags
16:30:13 <olivier> ... if you disagree with tagging, say so as it will determine issues we start with
16:30:38 <olivier> Topic: Progress of github:113 (scriptprocessornodes in workers)
16:30:38 <olivier> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/113
16:31:24 <olivier> olivier: don't see any discussion since may, what do we need?
16:31:34 <olivier> cwilso: have been wanting to prototype
16:31:58 <olivier> ... and consider the idea of where latency is produced and how we can eliminate it
16:32:14 <olivier> ... and then used SPN as a conceptual building block of the rest
16:32:21 <olivier> ... problem is we double-buffer the node
16:32:34 <olivier> ... we have to jump across a thread boundary
16:32:54 <olivier> ... talked with Ray  about pushing audio processing into the audio thread
16:33:15 <olivier> ... run SPN in the audio thread, with possibility of pushing to separate thread if needed
16:33:30 <olivier> ... create normal worker threads as needed, introduce yr own latency
16:34:13 <olivier> ... question of how it aligns with current implementations
16:34:38 <olivier> ... personal preference of removing ability to build on the main thread
16:34:58 <olivier> padenot: agreed - we can't keep the current situation
16:35:11 <olivier> ... been spending time trying to make it better, made some progress but not sustainable in long term
16:35:37 <olivier> ... been looking at demos, people porting stuff, not easy to just express with webaudio api
16:35:47 <olivier> ... and upset when it doesn't work with SPN
16:35:59 <olivier> ... been talking months ago with ROC on how to do that
16:36:25 <olivier> cwilso: one thing not captured in code in the issue thread is to have the event handler not be an event handler
16:36:29 <olivier> ... use sync callback instead
16:36:37 <olivier> padenot: we talked about shader model
16:37:00 <olivier> ... you upload your shader, no change
16:37:21 <olivier> cwilso: main thing would be to remove as much async as possible
16:37:51 <olivier> ... spoke to vendors
16:38:13 <olivier> ... can't arbitrarily split graph between 2 threads
16:38:28 <olivier> padenot: ideally you should be able to re-implement the api with it
16:38:39 <olivier> ... perhaps not with same performance but should be an aim
16:38:43 <olivier> ... at least a good exercise
16:39:01 <olivier> padenot: happy to talk at implementation level
16:39:07 <olivier> ... involve ROC, Ehsan
16:39:36 <olivier> cwilso: would be good - should take action item away
16:39:57 <olivier> ACTION: cwilso to document synchronous option in github issue 113
16:39:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-106 - Document synchronous option in github issue 113 [on Chris Wilson - due 2014-07-17].
16:40:56 <olivier> olivier: probably top agenda for potential implementors f2f
16:41:13 <olivier> cwilso: still trying to organise that
16:41:36 <olivier> ... music/audio hack day in Berlin, might be an option
16:42:38 <olivier> cwilso: main thing I want a solid feel from rest of the group
16:42:46 <olivier> ... preference for removing current SPN
16:42:51 <olivier> ... will be a big breaking change
16:43:15 <olivier> ... we would have to have good documentation of the transition
16:43:32 <olivier> ... including knowledge of workers
16:44:02 <olivier> olivier: sounds like candidate for CfC
16:44:19 <olivier> ... could have it now. decoupled from rest of the discussion?
16:44:47 <olivier> ACTION: olivier to organise CfC on breaking change for the main thread scriptprocessornode
16:44:48 <trackbot> Created ACTION-107 - Organise cfc on breaking change for the main thread scriptprocessornode [on Olivier Thereaux - due 2014-07-17].
16:45:35 <olivier> Topic: Reminder - register for TPAC/face to face meeting
16:46:07 <olivier> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2014/
16:47:36 <olivier> olivier: please register ASAP or contact us if you can't make it
16:47:48 <olivier> shepazu: please attend - important meeting
16:48:30 <olivier> Topic: AOB
16:51:26 <cwilso> http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2014/3-548
16:52:09 <olivier> Topic: next meeting
16:54:14 <olivier> suggested: 31st July
16:54:37 <olivier> cwilso: possible regrets
16:55:39 <olivier> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:55:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/10-audio-minutes.html olivier
17:08:30 <jernoble> jernoble has joined #audio
17:19:52 <rtoyg_> rtoyg_ has joined #audio
17:26:22 <rtoyg__> rtoyg__ has joined #audio
17:27:52 <kawai> kawai has joined #audio
17:33:18 <colinbdclark> colinbdclark has joined #audio
17:39:58 <rtoyg_> rtoyg_ has joined #audio
17:43:41 <marcosc__> marcosc__ has joined #audio
18:20:51 <rtoyg__> rtoyg__ has joined #audio
20:02:28 <colinbdclark> colinbdclark has joined #audio
20:15:49 <jernoble> jernoble has joined #audio
22:07:11 <jernoble> jernoble has joined #audio
22:49:32 <colinbdclark> colinbdclark has joined #audio
23:30:08 <jernoble> jernoble has joined #audio