15:49:02 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dnt
15:49:02 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/07/09-dnt-irc
15:49:04 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:49:04 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dnt
15:49:06 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be TRACK
15:49:06 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see T&S_Track(dnt)12:00PM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
15:49:07 <trackbot> Meeting: Tracking Protection Working Group Teleconference
15:49:07 <trackbot> Date: 09 July 2014
15:49:15 <npdoty> chair: cargill, justin
15:50:50 <npdoty> regrets+ rvaneijk, dsinger, schunter, johnsimpson, walter, ninja
15:54:44 <npdoty> npdoty has changed the topic to: July 9 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tracking/2014Jul/0004.html
15:56:49 <Chris_M> Chris_M has joined #dnt
15:57:49 <Zakim> T&S_Track(dnt)12:00PM has now started
15:57:56 <Zakim> +npdoty
15:58:23 <Zakim> -npdoty
15:58:24 <Zakim> T&S_Track(dnt)12:00PM has ended
15:58:24 <Zakim> Attendees were npdoty
15:58:46 <npdoty> Zakim, call npdoty
15:58:47 <Zakim> ok, npdoty; the call is being made
15:58:49 <Zakim> T&S_Track(dnt)12:00PM has now started
15:58:49 <Zakim> +Npdoty
15:59:27 <justin> justin has joined #dnt
15:59:47 <Carl_Cargill> Carl_Cargill has joined #dnt
15:59:50 <Zakim> + +1.303.949.aaaa
15:59:59 <ChrisPedigoOPA> ChrisPedigoOPA has joined #dnt
16:00:07 <Zakim> +Carl_Cargill
16:00:41 <Zakim> +ChrisPedigoOPA
16:00:50 <Zakim> +??P12
16:01:02 <npdoty> Zakim, aaaa is JackH
16:01:02 <Zakim> +JackH; got it
16:01:09 <Zakim> + +1.206.770.aabb
16:01:14 <Chris_M> just joined the call
16:01:15 <npdoty> agenda+ Data Minimization
16:01:24 <npdoty> agenda+ Tracking in compliance
16:01:30 <npdoty> agenda+ Link shortener
16:01:32 <Nielsen__Raymond_> zakim, please mute me
16:01:32 <Zakim> sorry, Nielsen__Raymond_, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
16:01:35 <npdoty> agenda+ Deidentification
16:01:37 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:01:48 <Zakim> +Wendy
16:01:54 <Zakim> +Amy_Colando
16:01:56 <moneill2> zakim, [IPCaller] is me
16:01:56 <Zakim> +moneill2; got it
16:01:59 <wseltzer> zakim, who is here?
16:02:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see Npdoty, JackH, Carl_Cargill, ChrisPedigoOPA, ??P12, +1.206.770.aabb, moneill2, Wendy, Amy_Colando
16:02:00 <Zakim> On IRC I see ChrisPedigoOPA, Carl_Cargill, justin, Chris_M, Zakim, RRSAgent, npdoty, moneill2, Nielsen__Raymond_, Alan_, schunter, walter, hober, wseltzer, trackbot
16:02:08 <Chris_M> no
16:02:19 <Chris_M> I called in from a private number
16:02:19 <npdoty> Zakim, ??p12 is Chris_M
16:02:19 <Zakim> +Chris_M; got it
16:02:31 <wseltzer> zakim, aabb is probably Nielsen__Raymond_
16:02:31 <Zakim> +Nielsen__Raymond_?; got it
16:02:35 <Zakim> +Justin
16:02:38 <npdoty> Zakim, who is making noise?
16:02:39 <Zakim> +WaltMichel
16:02:41 <Zakim> -Nielsen__Raymond_?
16:02:49 <Zakim> npdoty, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 10 (32%), Carl_Cargill (4%), Justin (53%)
16:02:54 <Zakim> + +1.646.654.aacc
16:03:06 <WaltMichel> WaltMichel has joined #DNT
16:03:07 <Zakim> +hefferjr
16:03:29 <npdoty> agenda+ TPE LC Comments
16:03:33 <Zakim> + +1.206.770.aadd - is perhaps Nielsen__Raymond_?
16:03:35 <npdoty> agenda+ Reminders
16:03:45 <npdoty> volunteers to scribe?
16:03:56 <vincent> vincent has joined #dnt
16:04:28 <npdoty> scribenick: ChrisPedigoOPA
16:04:38 <fielding> fielding has joined #dnt
16:04:57 <npdoty> Zakim, take up agendum 6
16:04:57 <Zakim> +Jeff
16:04:57 <Zakim> agendum 6. "Reminders" taken up [from npdoty]
16:04:57 <ChrisPedigoOPA> Justin: 2 open calls for objections
16:05:01 <ChrisPedigoOPA> 1 - data append
16:05:13 <npdoty> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/49311/tpwg-first-parties-170/
16:05:14 <Zakim> +vincent
16:05:15 <WileyS> WileyS has joined #dnt
16:05:15 <ChrisPedigoOPA> 2 - use of data in a different context
16:05:16 <Zakim> +Fielding
16:05:24 <npdoty> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/49311/tpwg-third-party-context-219/
16:05:34 <jeff> jeff has joined #dnt
16:05:36 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin: will send a remindernote to the group
16:05:44 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin:  TPE update
16:06:07 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin:  comments received, put into 20-30 categories
16:06:16 <Zakim> +[FTC]
16:06:25 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin:  nick to assign issues, roy to take first stab at implementing
16:06:42 <magee> magee has joined #dnt
16:06:43 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin: chairs will decide whether issues have already been addressed
16:07:10 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin: unclear about timing for when issues will be brought to the group
16:07:14 <npdoty> nick is behind, but will start creating issues in the next couple days
16:07:37 <fielding> sometime in the next week or two
16:07:40 <Zakim> +WileyS
16:07:52 <npdoty> so, all, be aware that lots of email announcements about issues will come to the mailing list soon
16:08:03 <cOlsen> cOlsen has joined #dnt
16:08:10 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin:  ninja has accepted a new job!
16:08:34 <ChrisPedigoOPA> will still be involved, but not as w3c staff
16:08:56 <npdoty> Zakim, take up agendum 1
16:08:56 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Data Minimization" taken up [from npdoty]
16:09:19 <Zakim> +[FTC.a]
16:09:20 <Zakim> +MECallahan
16:09:33 <mecallahan> mecallahan has joined #dnt
16:09:42 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin: mike o'neill is ok with existing text
16:09:49 <ChrisPedigoOPA> dropped his change proposal
16:09:51 <Zakim> +kulick
16:09:57 <ChrisPedigoOPA> will allow one more week before closing out issue
16:09:59 <kulick> kulick has joined #dnt
16:10:15 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin: some may still want changes
16:10:27 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin:  but no one has submitted language yet
16:10:47 <justin> q?
16:10:49 <wseltzer> agenda?
16:10:51 <npdoty> I implemented Jack's change, and added a note regarding when minimization/permitted uses requirements applied
16:10:56 <wseltzer> zakim, take up agendum 2
16:10:56 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Tracking in compliance" taken up [from npdoty]
16:11:14 <justin> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Privacy/TPWG/Change_Proposal_Tracking_Third_Party_Compliance
16:11:33 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin: how to use the definition of tracking in 3rd party compliance
16:12:31 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin: roy has suggested a change
16:12:42 <Brooks> Brooks has joined #dnt
16:12:59 <Zakim> +Brooks
16:13:06 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin: david tried to merge roy's proposal with his
16:13:45 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin: will send correspondence to the group detailing differences between roy and david's proposal
16:14:22 <ChrisPedigoOPA> roy fielding: trying to incorporate tracking definition and use it for determining what a server must do
16:15:06 <ChrisPedigoOPA> roy: trying to avoid the issue of whether the server is 1st or 3rd party
16:15:32 <npdoty> q+
16:15:43 <ChrisPedigoOPA> roy: if server can change behavior dynamically, it would say so
16:16:13 <ChrisPedigoOPA> roy: trying to define each response that a server could use
16:17:02 <ChrisPedigoOPA> roy: might need to include language re "if you say t, but don't include qualifier, then you are not compliant"
16:17:21 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin:  also need a link to the TSR?
16:17:24 <ChrisPedigoOPA> roy - yes
16:17:40 <justin> q?
16:17:43 <justin> ack npd
16:17:58 <ChrisPedigoOPA> nick - sounds like Roy's goals are same as David's
16:20:06 <ChrisPedigoOPA> nick: using tracking definition is more narrow than "data" in general, but may also need some language about what 1st and 3rd parties can/cannot do
16:20:14 <ChrisPedigoOPA> roy - my lang applies to both
16:20:50 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin - doesn't matter re 1st or 3rd, b/c tracking definition is across multiple, unrelated iste
16:20:51 <ChrisPedigoOPA> sites
16:21:21 <npdoty> there is a section now for "server compliance" which applies to all servers who are parties, fwiw
16:21:33 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin:  don't see why we need radical change here
16:22:22 <ChrisPedigoOPA> nick - my understanding of Roy's proposal, we would add lang re TSVs and delete 1st and 3rd party compliance sections but keep permitted uses sectoin
16:22:47 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin: what would be allowed under reformulation that is prohibited today?
16:23:27 <Zakim> -Nielsen__Raymond_?
16:23:32 <ChrisPedigoOPA> nick: might just need more guidance so there is clarity
16:23:45 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin:  I don't think Roy's proposal changes anything
16:24:06 <justin> q?
16:24:14 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin: may need more email discussion to flesh out roy's proposal
16:24:15 <justin> q?
16:24:42 <npdoty> Zakim, next agendum
16:24:44 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Data Minimization" taken up [from npdoty]
16:24:48 <npdoty> Zakim, take up agendum 3
16:24:48 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Link shortener" taken up [from npdoty]
16:24:50 <justin> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Privacy/TPWG/Change_Proposals_on_link_shorteners_and_ID_providers
16:25:00 <wseltzer> zakim, drop agendum 1
16:25:00 <Zakim> agendum 1, Data Minimization, dropped
16:25:11 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin:  spirited email discussion
16:25:42 <Zakim> +Chapell
16:25:44 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin: example - on twitter, link to NYT article via bitly.  Is bitly a 1st party?
16:25:55 <Chapell> Chapell has joined #DNT
16:26:06 <WileyS> Bitly only becomes a first party if the user clicks on the link - direct interaction
16:26:09 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin: identity providers issue
16:26:20 <ChrisPedigoOPA> 2 old proposals that noone is arguing for
16:26:40 <ChrisPedigoOPA> example - if I use Facebook to authenticate me on NYT, is Facebook a 1st party?
16:27:05 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin:  I will put out some thoughts to see if anyone wants to engage
16:27:06 <Zakim> -Amy_Colando
16:27:18 <justin> q?
16:27:22 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin:  could just leave the standard vague here
16:27:37 <npdoty> q+
16:27:38 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin:  probably will go to CFO on link shorteners
16:27:44 <WileyS> Isn't this ultimately up to the party providing the authentication service and their terms with the user - which the user must explicitly consent to in order to use the service?  I'd recommend we remain silent on this issue.
16:28:10 <ChrisPedigoOPA> nick - is the wiki current?
16:29:05 <justin> q?
16:29:07 <npdoty> q-
16:29:31 <npdoty> I think it'll be easier to discuss the link shortener issue once we get concrete text proposals
16:29:38 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin: long standing issue of deidentification
16:29:44 <justin> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Privacy/TPWG/Change_Proposal_Deidentification
16:29:45 <npdoty> Zakim, take up agendum 4
16:29:45 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Deidentification" taken up [from npdoty]
16:30:01 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin: 11 proposals in wiki
16:30:35 <WileyS> How is bit.ly/afb different than www.times.com/afb?  In both cases the link destination can redirect the user - and in both cases the user can almost always see/discover the domain of the link prior to clicking on it.
16:30:38 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin: current text taken from Peter Swire June draft
16:30:57 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin:  tracks closely with text in FTC 2011 privacy report
16:31:20 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin: Dan Auerbach has more prescriptive proposal
16:31:30 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin:  david singer proposed minor changes
16:31:50 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin: roy proopsed deleting last 2 clauses
16:32:25 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin: red/yellow/green approach
16:32:53 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin:  red = raw data, yelllow = delinked, green = fully deidentified
16:33:14 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin:  part of daa proposal from last summer, rejected by w3c staff
16:33:31 <ChrisPedigoOPA> correction - rejected by w3c chairs
16:33:44 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin:  new proposal from Jack Hobaugh, NAI
16:33:50 <jeff> s/w3c chairs/TPWG chairs/
16:33:59 <npdoty> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Privacy/TPWG/Change_Proposal_Deidentification#Expert_review_or_safe_harbor
16:34:46 <ChrisPedigoOPA> Jack - based on HIPPA deidentification process
16:35:29 <ChrisPedigoOPA> Jack - proposal submitted on behalf of IAB, DMA and NAI
16:36:04 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin:  will take a first stab at merging or delineating differences
16:36:14 <fielding> I want my proposal to be active because it is silly to require a contract exist for the release of anonymous statistics.
16:36:48 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin: good point that contract should not always be required
16:37:13 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin:  group participants should review the proposals
16:37:32 <justin> q?
16:37:34 <npdoty> it seems like the proposals are FTC-style (or more or less on it) or HIPAA-style
16:37:37 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin:  2 or 3 hard issues remaining, this is one of them
16:37:57 <justin> q?
16:38:01 <ChrisPedigoOPA> justin: that's all folks
16:38:04 <WileyS> +q
16:38:19 <npdoty> ack WileyS
16:38:31 <npdoty> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/49311/tpwg-first-parties-170/
16:38:32 <npdoty> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/49311/tpwg-third-party-context-219/
16:38:32 <ChrisPedigoOPA> Shane:  can someone post a link to the 2 active CFOs and remind that tonight is deadline?
16:38:46 <justin> q?
16:38:59 <Zakim> -MECallahan
16:39:01 <Zakim> -WileyS
16:39:01 <Zakim> -Chapell
16:39:02 <Zakim> -[FTC.a]
16:39:02 <Zakim> -hefferjr
16:39:03 <Zakim> -WaltMichel
16:39:03 <Zakim> -Carl_Cargill
16:39:04 <Zakim> -ChrisPedigoOPA
16:39:04 <Zakim> -kulick
16:39:05 <Zakim> -Jeff
16:39:05 <Zakim> -Brooks
16:39:06 <Zakim> -Npdoty
16:39:06 <Zakim> -Fielding
16:39:06 <Zakim> -JackH
16:39:06 <Zakim> -Chris_M
16:39:06 <Zakim> -Wendy
16:39:06 <Zakim> -vincent
16:39:08 <Zakim> -Justin
16:39:13 <npdoty> Zakim, list attendees
16:39:13 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Npdoty, +1.303.949.aaaa, Carl_Cargill, ChrisPedigoOPA, JackH, +1.206.770.aabb, Wendy, Amy_Colando, moneill2, Chris_M, Nielsen__Raymond_?,
16:39:17 <Alan_> Alan_ has left #dnt
16:39:17 <Zakim> ... Justin, WaltMichel, +1.646.654.aacc, hefferjr, +1.206.770.aadd, Jeff, vincent, Fielding, [FTC], WileyS, MECallahan, kulick, Brooks, Chapell
16:39:17 <Zakim> -moneill2
16:39:19 <Zakim> -[FTC]
16:39:20 <Zakim> T&S_Track(dnt)12:00PM has ended
16:39:20 <Zakim> Attendees were Npdoty, +1.303.949.aaaa, Carl_Cargill, ChrisPedigoOPA, JackH, +1.206.770.aabb, Wendy, Amy_Colando, moneill2, Chris_M, Nielsen__Raymond_?, Justin, WaltMichel,
16:39:20 <Zakim> ... +1.646.654.aacc, hefferjr, +1.206.770.aadd, Jeff, vincent, Fielding, [FTC], WileyS, MECallahan, kulick, Brooks, Chapell
16:39:26 <npdoty> rrsagent, please draft the minutes
16:39:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/09-dnt-minutes.html npdoty
17:37:43 <jeff_> jeff_ has joined #dnt
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19:52:46 <kulick> kulick has joined #dnt