14:56:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
14:56:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/06/26-html-a11y-irc
14:56:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:56:12 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
14:56:12 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 56 minutes ago
14:56:13 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:56:13 <trackbot> Date: 26 June 2014
14:56:26 <MarkS> Meeting: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference
14:56:26 <MarkS> Chair: Mark
14:56:27 <MarkS> agenda+ Identify Scribe
14:56:29 <MarkS> agenda+ Longdesc
14:56:31 <MarkS> agenda+ Canvas Sub Group
14:56:33 <MarkS> agenda+ WAI-ARIA in HTML
14:56:35 <MarkS> agenda+ Media Sub Group
14:56:37 <MarkS> agenda+ Bug Triage
14:56:39 <MarkS> agenda+ HTML 5.1 Next Steps
14:56:43 <MarkS> agenda+ Other Business
14:56:45 <MarkS> agenda+ Identify Chair and Scribe for the next TF teleconference
14:56:47 <MarkS> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
14:56:51 <MarkS> zakim, take up item 1
14:56:51 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Identify Scribe" taken up [from MarkS]
14:59:17 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has now started
14:59:24 <Zakim> +Mark_Sadecki
15:01:56 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:02:17 <paulc> paulc has joined #html-a11y
15:02:30 <paulc> zakim, what is the code?
15:02:30 <Zakim> the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), paulc
15:02:40 <Zakim> +Adrian_Roselli
15:02:50 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
15:02:57 <paulc> zakim, [Microsoft] is me
15:02:57 <Zakim> +paulc; got it
15:03:04 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
15:03:26 <MarkS> zakim, [IPcaller is LWatson
15:03:26 <Zakim> +LWatson; got it
15:03:45 <aardrian> aardrian has joined #html-a11y
15:03:49 <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
15:03:56 <aardrian> zakim, who is here?
15:03:56 <Zakim> On the phone I see Mark_Sadecki, LWatson, Adrian_Roselli, paulc, David_MacDonald, Cynthia_Shelly
15:03:58 <Zakim> On IRC I see aardrian, paulc, RRSAgent, chaals, IanPouncey, cabanier, MarkS, sivoais, Zakim, hober, trackbot
15:04:20 <Judy> Judy has joined #html-a11y
15:05:22 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #html-a11y
15:05:23 <LJWatson> LJWatson has joined #html-a11y
15:05:25 <David> David has joined #html-a11y
15:05:33 <aardrian> zakim, who is here?
15:05:33 <Zakim> On the phone I see Mark_Sadecki, LWatson, Adrian_Roselli, paulc, David_MacDonald, Cynthia_Shelly
15:05:35 <Zakim> On IRC I see David, LJWatson, ShaneM, Judy, aardrian, paulc, RRSAgent, chaals, IanPouncey, cabanier, MarkS, sivoais, Zakim, hober, trackbot
15:05:50 <MarkS> ShaneM, are you still interested in being our scribe today?
15:05:56 <ShaneM> zakim, what is the code?
15:05:56 <Zakim> the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ShaneM
15:06:07 <Zakim> +McCarron
15:06:12 <Zakim> +Judy
15:06:14 <ShaneM> zakim, I am McCarron
15:06:14 <Zakim> ok, ShaneM, I now associate you with McCarron
15:06:30 <ShaneM> ScribeNick: ShaneM
15:06:43 <ShaneM> zakim, next item
15:06:43 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Longdesc" taken up [from MarkS]
15:07:30 <ShaneM> MarkS: unfortunate series of events.  just before close we discovered there was a bug with a comment left on it.  a change was accepted and was supposed to be in the editors draft but was not.
15:07:53 <MarkS> ->http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2014Jun/0065.html Extension of deadline for longdesc CfC
15:08:03 <ShaneM> ... upon further reflection we decided to only partially accept the change and implement it.  This meant the CfC was extended to review the additional change.
15:08:51 <MarkS> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24168
15:09:14 <ShaneM> ... CfC is open until tomorrow.
15:10:16 <ShaneM> zakim, next item
15:10:16 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Canvas Sub Group" taken up [from MarkS]
15:10:42 <ShaneM> no meeting this week.  still getting progress updates about fixing hitregion support in chromium.  should have a patch.
15:11:00 <ShaneM> ... last call comment period for the canvas 2d spec closes today.  no comments or new bugs filed.
15:11:57 <ShaneM> Actually last call period closed on 20 June.  There were no bugs reported in that time.
15:12:51 <ShaneM> Next step is to get the editors to prep a draft CR and offer it up to the chairs to get a CfC done.
15:13:29 <ShaneM> zakim, next item
15:13:29 <Zakim> agendum 4. "WAI-ARIA in HTML" taken up [from MarkS]
15:13:51 <MarkS> ->http://www.w3.org/TR/aria-in-html/ Using WAI-ARIA in HTML Working Draft published
15:13:56 <ShaneM> MarkS: received consensus from TF and PF to publish a heartbeat draft.  It is live now.
15:14:53 <ShaneM> ... announcement is not yet up.
15:15:06 <ShaneM> zakim, next item
15:15:06 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Media Sub Group" taken up [from MarkS]
15:15:35 <ShaneM> MarkS: no meeting this week for the subgroup.
15:15:59 <ShaneM> ... are working on drafting comment responses and preparing a new heartbeat draft.  Hope to have it out in two weeks (8 July or 10 July).
15:16:44 <ShaneM> Judy: whats up with tv?
15:17:17 <ShaneM> MarkS: they had a meeting recently.  drafting up their uses cases for round 2.  Once those are done the media subgroup will review the use cases again.
15:17:28 <ShaneM> ... sounds like they may have taken some of our use cases verbatim.
15:17:31 <ShaneM> zakim, next item
15:17:31 <Zakim> agendum 6. "Bug Triage" taken up [from MarkS]
15:17:57 <ShaneM> LJWatson: met yesterday.  all 5.0 bugs for a11y are completely cleared.
15:18:23 <LJWatson> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13449
15:18:26 <ShaneM> ... a handful of bugs have been reassigned to task force members for tracking.
15:18:40 <MarkS> ->https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13449 13449 Don't allow blank alt text on area elements
15:19:24 <ShaneM> Chaals had offered to put together a test case, but is very busy.  Task Force will relook at it to see if it is still an issue or if there could be a test case prepared.
15:20:45 <ShaneM> aardrian: I can try to create a test case but have never done so before.  Will take a little while.  I am tied up for the next few days.
15:21:03 <ShaneM> Judy: no one should feel shy about volunteering.  Everyone has to do something for the first time.
15:21:16 <LJWatson> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23027
15:21:19 <ShaneM> aardrian: I will probably reach out to Mark as things progress.
15:21:20 <MarkS> ->https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23027 23027 select and option should allow role overrides of menu and menuitem
15:22:02 <MarkS> q+
15:22:09 <MarkS> ack me
15:22:47 <ShaneM> MarkS: one of the reasons this was considered for 5.0 was that during the PF closer look at the native aria semantics section the group discovered some omissions from that section.
15:23:09 <ShaneM> ... this is another of those.  If the others are being considered for roll into 5.0, then this should be as well.
15:23:41 <ShaneM> ... will ping Steve about this bug.
15:24:11 <IanPouncey> IanPouncey has joined #html-a11y
15:24:40 <ShaneM> ShaneM: is there danger this wont make it into the spec?
15:25:00 <ShaneM> cyns: some people will not think this is editorial.
15:25:25 <ShaneM> paulc: task force should track this.  The TF should ask for it if that is what we want.
15:25:51 <LJWatson> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13572
15:25:56 <MarkS> ->https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13572 13572 4.10.19 aborting autofocus based on user choice not optional
15:26:52 <MarkS> q+
15:26:55 <ShaneM> LJWatson: Is there anything relating to this in UAAG?
15:27:04 <ShaneM> cyns: I don't think so (not at a computer right now).
15:27:57 <ShaneM> ... I don't think there are browser settings to override autofocus.
15:28:19 <ShaneM> ... there might have been a feature request for this. If so, it would have been a 5.1 feature request.  It is not necessary for 5.0.
15:28:32 <David> zakim, who's noisy?
15:28:46 <Zakim> David, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: LWatson (66%), Cynthia_Shelly (63%)
15:28:57 <ShaneM> ... reassign to Cynthia
15:29:35 <MarkS> ack me
15:30:29 <ShaneM> MarkS: (someone) thinks that UAAG section 2.2.4 might apply - separate focus from selection.  Could use that as an argument that user agents should have this feature.
15:30:35 <ShaneM> ... I do think this is a valid bug for 5.1
15:32:15 <ShaneM> This has been moved out of the HTML component and into the HTML a11y component.  What is the process when it moves back?
15:32:37 <ShaneM> LJWatson: We have done that - but the assignee has been Steve so it has not been awkward.
15:33:26 <MarkS> ACTION: cyns to add more information to https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13572
15:33:26 <trackbot> Created ACTION-274 - Add more information to https://www.w3.org/bugs/public/show_bug.cgi?id=13572 [on Cynthia Shelly - due 2014-07-03].
15:33:45 <ShaneM> zakim, next item
15:33:45 <Zakim> agendum 7. "HTML 5.1 Next Steps" taken up [from MarkS]
15:34:22 <MarkS> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/51wishlist
15:34:37 <paulc> Using WAI-ARIA in HTML publication:  see http://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/3933
15:34:49 <David> q+
15:34:58 <ShaneM> cyns: I do have an internal meeting scheduled about menus.  When we come back on the 10th I should be able to talk about it.
15:35:22 <ShaneM> ack David
15:36:17 <ShaneM> David: seeing radio buttons with sub groups with nested text boxes.  Confuses screen readers.
15:36:27 <ShaneM> cyns: if the text box is inside the label does that work?
15:36:33 <ShaneM> David: no.  Then you have a nested label.
15:36:35 <paulc> q+
15:37:32 <ShaneM> cyns: we need to figure out the right A11Y pattern to support this - it is widespread.
15:37:53 <ShaneM> MarkS: is there not a technique where you use enabled / disabled manipulating the DOM?  dynamically enable the additional form field?
15:38:28 <ShaneM> David: put the text field after the radio buttons and shift focus?
15:38:59 <ShaneM> cyns: there should be something we can do with labelling.  This is a sentence where a secondary control forms the end of the sentence.
15:39:22 <ShaneM> ... it feels like there is a labelling solution but it is going to be complicated.
15:39:46 <ShaneM> MarkS: it sounds like more of a technique.
15:39:57 <ShaneM> David: we need to forbid it or design a way to do it accessibly.
15:40:04 <ShaneM> MarkS: there is no way to do it with ARIA?
15:40:16 <ShaneM> David: I have done a lot of experimenting and cannot come up with a good pattern.
15:40:25 <ShaneM> cyns: can you send the examples to the list?
15:40:41 <ShaneM> David: Sure - I need to clean them up a little bit.  Next week.
15:40:50 <ShaneM> MarkS: Maybe there is a web components solution.
15:41:18 <ShaneM> David: it is not forbidden to put another form element inside a label, right?
15:41:27 <ShaneM> cyns: no.  and forbidding it wouldn't work.  people will do it anyway.
15:42:18 <ShaneM> David: the other thing we need to solve is placeholder text...  objection is that the label disappears after someone starts typing.
15:42:32 <ShaneM> cyns: I think we can come up with something.
15:43:06 <ShaneM> MarkS: I think the placeholder text becomes an accessible description, but users with cognitive issues may find it challenging that the text disappears
15:43:20 <MarkS> ack paulc
15:43:22 <paulc> See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2014Jun/0055.html for info on "editing TF"
15:43:24 <ShaneM> ... moving the text into a tooltip might be a way.
15:44:15 <ShaneM> paulc: at the html f2f meeting in april was the contenteditable feature in HTML.  There was a feeling that some of that feature should be turned into an API instead of the mechanism that is in HTML5 today.
15:44:27 <ShaneM> ... there is a task force about it.
15:44:40 <ShaneM> cyns: some overlap with that and IndieUI.
15:45:18 <ShaneM> MarkS: I was at the f2f and I did hear a lot of people discussing contenteditable.  The TF should keep an eye on this in 5.1.  Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
15:45:54 <ShaneM> zakim, next item
15:45:54 <Zakim> agendum 8. "Other Business" taken up [from MarkS]
15:47:04 <ShaneM> LJWatson: I can scribe next week.
15:47:39 <ShaneM> MarkS regrets for next week as I will be on vacation.  paulc is at risk.  cyns will be away on the 10th.
15:47:51 <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
15:48:06 <Zakim> -LWatson
15:48:09 <Zakim> -Judy
15:48:10 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
15:48:10 <Zakim> -Mark_Sadecki
15:48:12 <Zakim> -Adrian_Roselli
15:48:19 <Zakim> -McCarron
15:49:35 <ShaneM> zakim, adjourn
15:49:35 <Zakim> I don't understand 'adjourn', ShaneM
15:49:40 <MarkS> zakim, who is on the phone
15:49:40 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', MarkS
15:49:45 <MarkS> zakim, who is here?
15:49:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see paulc
15:49:47 <Zakim> On IRC I see David, LJWatson, ShaneM, Judy, paulc, RRSAgent, cabanier, MarkS, sivoais, Zakim, hober, trackbot
15:49:54 <MarkS> zakim, drop Paulc
15:49:54 <Zakim> paulc is being disconnected
15:49:55 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has ended
15:49:55 <Zakim> Attendees were Mark_Sadecki, [IPcaller], Adrian_Roselli, paulc, David_MacDonald, LWatson, Cynthia_Shelly, McCarron, Judy
15:50:03 <MarkS> rrsagent, make minutes
15:50:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/26-html-a11y-minutes.html MarkS
16:00:55 <chaals> chaals has joined #html-a11y
16:01:39 <MarkS> sorry shaneM, i didn't see your post until now.  I can help wrap up the minutes
16:02:44 <chaals> chaals has joined #html-a11y
16:08:40 <chaals> chaals has joined #html-a11y
16:37:17 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #html-a11y
17:20:55 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #html-a11y
17:46:11 <chaals> chaals has joined #html-a11y
18:00:29 <chaals> chaals has joined #html-a11y
18:11:59 <chaals> chaals has joined #html-a11y
18:45:17 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #html-a11y
21:54:39 <IanPouncey> IanPouncey has joined #html-a11y