18:56:40 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
18:56:40 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/06/24-aapi-irc
18:56:42 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
18:56:42 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aapi
18:56:44 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
18:56:44 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
18:56:45 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
18:56:45 <trackbot> Date: 24 June 2014
18:58:18 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM has now started
18:58:25 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
18:58:34 <clown> zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:58:34 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
18:58:57 <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:58:57 <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:59:05 <clown> agenda: this
18:59:15 <clown> agenda+ Reminder: no meeting next week (Jun 30).
18:59:23 <clown> agenda+ News: ACTION-1463/ISSUE-427 (All) Buy in from UA vendors for read-access to ARIA info.
18:59:30 <clown> agenda+ ISSUE-654: Label/description events (All) Need to assign actions.
18:59:40 <clown> agenda+ aria-activedescendant and IE (Bryan): http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jun/0059.html
18:59:49 <clown> agenda+ aria-describedby and IE (Bryan): http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jun/0036.html
18:59:58 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1115: (Joseph, Cynthia) MSAA reference regarding not using role strings when role value outside of enumerated set.
19:00:05 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1372 (Cynthia):  Test case for rowgroup (if none exits).
19:00:12 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1373 (Cynthia):  Test case for aria-posinset/aria-setsize.
19:00:20 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1409 (Joanie):  Progress of ATK bugzilla for position, level, etc.
19:00:26 <clown> agenda+ be done.
19:00:38 <clown> chair:  Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:00:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/24-aapi-minutes.html clown
19:01:29 <Zakim> +Joanie_Diggs
19:01:41 <Zakim> +Bryan_Garaventa
19:04:08 <bgaraventa1979> bgaraventa1979 has joined #aapi
19:04:34 <bgaraventa1979> zakim, aaaa is Bryan_Garaventa
19:04:34 <Zakim> sorry, bgaraventa1979, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
19:05:01 <bgaraventa1979> zakim, I am Bryan_Garaventa
19:05:01 <Zakim> ok, bgaraventa1979, I now associate you with Bryan_Garaventa
19:05:26 <joanie> discoed
19:05:51 <Zakim> -Joanie_Diggs
19:06:03 <Zakim> +Joanie_Diggs
19:06:41 <joanie> scribenick: joanie
19:06:56 <joanie> regrets: David_Bolter
19:07:34 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 1
19:07:34 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Reminder: no meeting next week (Jun 30)." taken up [from clown]
19:07:53 <joanie> JS: Quick reminder that there is no meeting next week. (The 1st; not the 30th)
19:08:30 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:08:30 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, joanie
19:08:33 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:08:33 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, joanie
19:08:37 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 2
19:08:37 <Zakim> agendum 2. "News: ACTION-1463/ISSUE-427 (All) Buy in from UA vendors for read-access to ARIA info." taken up [from clown]
19:08:50 <clown> issue-427?
19:08:50 <trackbot> issue-427 -- Need a way for application to find out what role has been applied to or computed for an element -- open
19:08:50 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/427
19:09:11 <joanie> JS: We discussed this at yesterday's meeting.
19:09:26 <joanie> JS: We touched on this last week as well as part of the talk about automated testing.
19:09:47 <joanie> JS: It would be nice to have access to the accessibility layer like computed role.
19:09:53 <joanie> JS: This would be done via javascript.
19:10:11 <joanie> JS: James Craig pointed out yesterday that we need to get buy-in for all browser vendors.
19:10:33 <joanie> JS: Michael assigned a task to me to raise the subject with the accessibility API people, or really the browser vendors.
19:10:42 <joanie> JS: For them to go back to their teams to get buy-in.
19:11:07 <joanie> BG: What kind of scenario would be different from what AT tools already do?
19:11:12 <joanie> JS: For example, they want to add
19:11:20 <clown> element.computedRole();
19:11:40 <joanie> JS: (for above example) You can call this and it will return what the browser thinks the role is.
19:11:51 <joanie> JS: This would probably be a developer-readable string.
19:11:59 <joanie> JS: So you could do the markup for the role you want
19:12:07 <joanie> JS: And then do this to see if you got it right.
19:12:11 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
19:12:14 <joanie> JS: All of this would be read-only.
19:12:22 <cyns> cyns has joined #aapi
19:12:33 <joanie> JS: Same with other items like accessible name.
19:12:47 <joanie> BG: Right, but you cannot access this via javascript currently.
19:13:08 <joanie> JS: This would work with automated testing tools without having to open an accessibility explorer or other such tool.
19:13:45 <clown> action-1462?
19:13:45 <trackbot> action-1462 -- Christopher Gallello to Discuss computed role with ie team -- due 2014-06-30 -- OPEN
19:13:45 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1462
19:13:53 <joanie> JS: Chris was given an action item yesterday.
19:14:07 <joanie> s/Chris/Chris from Microsoft/
19:14:25 <joanie> JS: Dominic from Google got a similar action wrt the Blink team.
19:14:40 <joanie> CS: I will look into it as well.
19:15:06 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:15:06 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Reminder: no meeting next week (Jun 30)." taken up [from clown]
19:15:09 <joanie> ugh
19:15:15 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 3
19:15:15 <Zakim> agendum 3. "ISSUE-654: Label/description events (All) Need to assign actions." taken up [from clown]
19:15:24 <clown> issue-654?
19:15:24 <trackbot> issue-654 -- Add label and description changes to section "State and Property Change Events" -- open
19:15:24 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/654
19:15:42 <joanie> JS: It turns out that Firefox has recently added 2 new events.
19:15:51 <joanie> JS: Description-changed and name-changed events.
19:16:31 <clown> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=991969
19:16:38 <joanie> JD: But name-changed has been around awhile for ATK
19:16:46 <joanie> JS: Ah, so it's for description-changes.
19:16:58 <joanie> BG: This was impacting tooltips.
19:17:32 <joanie> JS: There's a lot of discussion in the bug between Alex and James Teh.
19:18:20 <joanie> JS: What I'd like to do is.... (To Cynthia) is IE going to do this.
19:18:27 <joanie> CS: I've heard of it and can ask.
19:18:58 <clown> action:  Cynthia to investigate IE support of accessilbe name and/or description changes.
19:18:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1468 - Investigate ie support of accessilbe name and/or description changes. [on Cynthia Shelly - due 2014-07-01].
19:19:19 <clown> action-1468?
19:19:19 <trackbot> action-1468 -- Cynthia Shelly to Investigate ie support of accessilbe name and/or description changes. -- due 2014-07-01 -- OPEN
19:19:19 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1468
19:20:00 <joanie> JS: What I would like to do, if this works the same in all browsers, is to add something to the mapping document, the events section, to indicate these events are fired.
19:20:07 <joanie> JS: I'll have to get something from Apple too.
19:21:17 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 4
19:21:17 <Zakim> agendum 4. "aria-activedescendant and IE (Bryan): http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jun/0059.html" taken up [from clown]
19:21:38 <joanie> JS: This is something we started at the end of last meeting, but Bryan got cut off.
19:21:52 <joanie> BG: I actually did follow up with that via email.
19:22:07 <joanie> BG: The markup is correct.
19:22:22 <joanie> BG: It looks like an IE bug.
19:22:32 <joanie> CS: It's not specific to active descendant.
19:22:39 <joanie> CS: It's a good one to have in the database.
19:23:13 <joanie> s/the database/our public issue tracker/
19:23:23 <joanie> JS: Is there anything that impacts the mapping guide?
19:23:37 <joanie> CS: It depends on how they want to fix the bug. They might have feedback on the spec, though.
19:23:45 <joanie> JS: OK, we'll wait until something comes up.
19:23:51 <joanie> BG: Fine with me.
19:23:57 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 5
19:23:57 <Zakim> agendum 5. "aria-describedby and IE (Bryan): http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jun/0036.html" taken up [from clown]
19:24:07 <joanie> JS: This one has to do with described by.
19:24:13 <clown> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=991969
19:24:40 <clown> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jun/0036.html
19:24:54 <joanie> JS: The related email is above. (Reads from email)
19:25:10 <joanie> BG: I went back and forth with Steve Faulker on this.
19:25:26 <joanie> BG: It's related to the tab index and what shows up in the accessibility tree.
19:25:33 <joanie> BG: It seems like an IE bug.
19:25:52 <joanie> CS: It is definitely a difference. Not sure if it's a bug or a quirk, but we should talk about it.
19:26:01 <joanie> CS: This has already been reported.
19:26:16 <joanie> JS: As with active descendant, there's no impact on the mapping until something happens here.
19:26:31 <joanie> CS: Correct, if they ask for a change in the spec. But I don't see any (impact) right now.
19:26:42 <joanie> JS: I like to see interoperability where possible.
19:26:47 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 6
19:26:47 <Zakim> agendum 6. "ACTION-1115: (Joseph, Cynthia) MSAA reference regarding not using role strings when role value outside of enumerated set." taken up [from clown]
19:27:01 <clown> action-1115?
19:27:01 <trackbot> action-1115 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Find reference in MSAA spec that says you can't put anything in the role property except roles that are defined by the MSAA spec -- due 2012-10-02 -- OPEN
19:27:01 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1115
19:27:06 <joanie> JS: This is now my action. Cynthia did the heavy lifting.
19:27:14 <joanie> JS: I was looking at this yesterday and have a question.
19:27:25 <joanie> JS: I have to find the section of the document where to put this.
19:27:51 <joanie> JS: There is a rule with respect to the MSAA spec that says if you have a role that is not one of the predefined roles, you are not supposed to put a string in the role property.
19:27:57 <joanie> JS: This was filed a long time ago.
19:28:05 <joanie> JS: I think I know where in the spec this goes.
19:28:10 <joanie> JS: And want to confirm with you.
19:28:25 <clown> http://www.w3.org/TR/core-aam-1.1/#mapping_role
19:28:35 <joanie> JS: I think it goes in the above, in section 5.4
19:28:49 <joanie> JS: The fifth item in the numbered list (reads from it)
19:29:04 <joanie> JS: I guess under the MSAA bullet, I would put the reference to this.
19:29:26 <joanie> CS: Yes. I think the biggest impact... Firefox does this. I think they have moved largely over to IA2.
19:29:40 <joanie> CS: It's important to make David aware of this.
19:29:48 <joanie> CS: As he was concerned about this.
19:29:54 <joanie> JS: I will talk to David about this.
19:31:10 <joanie> JS: I remember going back and forth about this. But I think they are almost ready to do this.
19:31:59 <joanie> JS: I'll make the edit by our next meeting which will be on 8 July.
19:32:06 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 7
19:32:06 <Zakim> agendum 7. "ACTION-1372 (Cynthia):  Test case for rowgroup (if none exits)." taken up [from clown]
19:32:16 <clown> action-1372?
19:32:16 <trackbot> action-1372 -- Cynthia Shelly to Create a test case, if there is none, to test the rowgroup role -- due 2014-06-24 -- OPEN
19:32:16 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1372
19:32:37 <joanie> CS: I will try to have this done next week.
19:32:56 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 8
19:32:56 <Zakim> agendum 8. "ACTION-1373 (Cynthia):  Test case for aria-posinset/aria-setsize." taken up [from clown]
19:33:05 <clown> action-1373>
19:33:05 <trackbot> action-1373 -- Cynthia Shelly to Create a test case for when aria-posinset and aria-setsize are provided explicitly on some but not all elements. -- due 2014-06-24 -- OPEN
19:33:05 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1373
19:33:33 <joanie> CS: I will try to have this done next week as well.
19:33:40 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 9
19:33:40 <Zakim> agendum 9. "ACTION-1409 (Joanie):  Progress of ATK bugzilla for position, level, etc." taken up [from clown]
19:33:57 <clown> action-1409?
19:33:57 <trackbot> action-1409 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Monitor progress of bug against atk in gnome's bugzilla requesting new position, level, and other api be added (https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727453) -- due 2014-06-24 -- OPEN
19:33:57 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1409
19:34:16 <joanie> JD: I talked to Alex Piñeiro and he states that this realistically will not happen any time soon. But he is aware of it and plans to move forward with it when time permits.
19:36:19 <joanie> JD: I'll try to discuss this at GUADEC.
19:36:41 <joanie> JD: So let's shoot for whatever meeting we have after 1 August.
19:36:43 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 10
19:36:43 <Zakim> agendum 10. "be done." taken up [from clown]
19:37:43 <joanie> Group consensus: We will leave early.
19:38:04 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
19:38:12 <Zakim> -Joanie_Diggs
19:38:14 <Zakim> -Bryan_Garaventa
19:38:33 <joanie> Present+ Cynthia_Shelly
19:38:34 <Zakim> -Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:38:35 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM has ended
19:38:35 <Zakim> Attendees were Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa, [Microsoft]
19:38:54 <joanie> Present- [Microsoft]
19:39:11 <joanie> RRSAgent, make minutes
19:39:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/24-aapi-minutes.html joanie
19:39:42 <joanie> Zakim, part
19:39:42 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aapi
19:39:48 <joanie> RRSAgent, stop