13:44:53 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mobile-a11y
13:44:53 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/06/20-mobile-a11y-irc
13:44:55 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:44:55 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #mobile-a11y
13:44:57 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_MATF
13:44:57 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_MATF()10:00AM scheduled to start in 16 minutes
13:44:58 <trackbot> Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
13:44:58 <trackbot> Date: 20 June 2014
13:45:09 <Kathy>  zakim, this will be 6283
13:45:09 <Zakim> ok, Kathy; I see WAI_MATF()10:00AM scheduled to start in 15 minutes
13:45:22 <Kathy> rrsagent, make log world
13:45:30 <Kathy> meeting: Mobile A11Y TF
13:45:37 <Kathy> chair: Kathy Wahlbin
13:56:48 <Zakim> WAI_MATF()10:00AM has now started
13:56:55 <Zakim> +Kathy_Wahlbin
13:57:06 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #mobile-a11y
13:57:34 <kathleen> kathleen has joined #mobile-a11y
13:57:40 <wuwei> wuwei has joined #mobile-a11y
14:00:05 <Zakim> + +1.910.278.aaaa
14:00:21 <kathleen> zakim, aaaa is me
14:00:21 <Zakim> +kathleen; got it
14:00:55 <Zakim> +Jeanne
14:01:33 <Jan> Jan has joined #mobile-a11y
14:01:40 <jon_avila> jon_avila has joined #mobile-a11y
14:02:02 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:02:08 <jon_avila> zakim, I am IPcaller
14:02:08 <Zakim> ok, jon_avila, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
14:02:16 <Jan> zakim, code?
14:02:16 <Zakim> the conference code is 6283 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan
14:02:43 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
14:03:03 <Zakim> +EricP
14:03:20 <Jan> zakim, [IPcaller.a] is really Jan
14:03:20 <Zakim> +Jan; got it
14:04:41 <Detlev> Detlev has joined #mobile-a11y
14:05:23 <Zakim> +Detlev
14:06:00 <Jan> scribe: Jan
14:06:14 <Kathy> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140512_survey/results#xq16
14:06:52 <Jan> Kathy: Over past few weeks we've been going over survey to see where the techs fit
14:07:01 <Jan> Kathy: I want to get through next 5
14:07:09 <Jan> Kathy: We are on num 15
14:07:27 <Jan> Topic: 15. Use simple navigation concepts with consistent interaction patterns
14:08:02 <Jan> Detlev: Hard to define in a way that has a clear test....
14:09:00 <Jan> Kathy: Is there anything around consistent nav patterns...
14:09:15 <Jan> Kathy: that might be necessary for responsive design or mobile?
14:09:22 <Jan> Detlev: Rephrase?
14:09:42 <Jan> Kathy: Often with responsive desing, nav mechanisms do change.
14:11:28 <Jan> Jan: Maybe this is a note on 3.2.3 to say it is ok if nav mechanisms change between responsive design
14:11:58 <Jan> Kathy: Would orientation be a problem?
14:12:14 <jon_avila> q?
14:12:21 <jon_avila> q+
14:12:34 <Jan> Detlev: No as long as same functions are available...multiple ways
14:12:42 <Jan> ack jon
14:12:46 <Jan> q+
14:13:10 <Jan> Jon: If it's broken for everyone, then its not accessibility related
14:13:22 <Jan> Jon: Within that view, you need consistency
14:13:30 <Jan> q- I agree with Jon
14:13:35 <Jan> q-
14:14:24 <Detlev> q+
14:14:50 <Jan> Jon: Idea of conformance claim to just one responsive version
14:15:57 <Jan> JAn: Can see a problem with that
14:16:04 <Jan> Jon: I agree its an issue
14:16:37 <Jan> Kathy: What is Alastair putting together?
14:16:45 <wwu> wwu has joined #mobile-a11y
14:16:45 <Jan> Jon: A technique....I will put in a link
14:17:04 <Jan> Detlev: Can I add...from evaluation methodologies mtg....
14:17:53 <Jan> Detlev: Whether different versions are different.....EM group will say that different responsive design versions are NOT different versions...just different states
14:18:48 <jon_avila> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_a_script_load_toggle_for_feature_detection_libraries_to_provide_a_conforming_alternate_version
14:18:54 <Jan> Detlev: Nomensa Alastair?
14:19:12 <Jan> Jon: We decided to base on progressive enhancement, not responsive design
14:19:47 <Jan> Jon: So different, but it becomes a lot to test
14:19:52 <Jan> Jon: What are yoyu saying?
14:20:25 <Jan> Detlev: Even the designer has catered for different versions  with queries etc then those versions should be covered as states for the test
14:21:12 <jon_avila> scribe: jon_avila
14:21:32 <jon_avila> zakim, I am ipcaller
14:21:32 <Zakim> ok, jon_avila, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
14:23:00 <Detlev> 1+
14:23:04 <jon_avila> kathy: summary of #15 is that we would map to 3.2.3 and 2.4.5.  Put in mobile note on consistency within a viewport size.  No new technique, we can incoporate into other techniques
14:23:09 <kathleen> +1
14:23:37 <jon_avila> RESOLUTION: #15 is that we would map to 3.2.3 and 2.4.5.  Put in mobile note on consistency within a viewport size.  No new technique, we can incoporate into other techniques
14:23:56 <jon_avila> TOPIC: #16 Allow users to interact with hardware device buttons.
14:24:32 <jon_avila> kathy: some respondants say advisory and others say sufficient techniques
14:24:52 <jon_avila> jan:  discussion if this is UAAG crossover or not.
14:25:02 <Detlev> q+
14:25:10 <jon_avila> q-
14:25:39 <jon_avila> kathy: make a note in the technique about device buttons
14:25:57 <Tim> Tim has joined #mobile-a11y
14:26:14 <jeanne> q+ to use case for apps
14:26:19 <jon_avila> detlev: May want to widen device buttons to include other input mechanisms such as shaking, etc. to dismiss or undo, some of these are device specific.
14:27:08 <jon_avila> kathy: you're saying if the device allows a gesture or physical buttons then they should be supported?
14:27:34 <jeanne> q-
14:27:36 <jon_avila> detlev: not sure if we want to stop at button or include other potential input mechanisms.  May need a refererence to IndieUI
14:27:51 <Kathy> q?
14:28:35 <Zakim> +Tim_Boland
14:29:50 <Detlev> q-
14:30:05 <jon_avila> jon_avila: concern over allow it to meet a SC without providing other types of access beyond just this gesture.
14:30:21 <jon_avila> RESOLUTION: Advisory technique under 2.1.1
14:30:37 <jon_avila> TOPIC: #17 ensure interface can be used with bluetooth keyboard.
14:31:48 <jon_avila> kathleen: modify way it's word.  If it's supported by the platform.  Maybe changed bluetooth keyboard to input devices.
14:32:23 <jon_avila> jan: also USB to go to connect USB.
14:32:23 <jon_avila> q?
14:33:17 <Kathy> q+
14:34:47 <Kathy> q-
14:34:51 <jon_avila> kathy: ton of bluetooth devices that would get included - never ending stream including switch devices - alot to test.
14:35:40 <jon_avila> kathy: could add a mobile note to current keyboard techniques.  Could be different devices based on what you have identified as accessibility supported.
14:36:59 <jon_avila> detlev:  set base level of accessibility support on a particular device with keyboard., theoreticaly example.
14:37:31 <jon_avila> kathy: if we look at creating a new one or incorporating, what is preference?
14:37:37 <Zakim> -Jan
14:38:27 <jon_avila> jon_avila: g202 is a general keyboard technique that might be used.
14:38:51 <Detlev> q+Sounds good
14:39:04 <jon_avila> kathy: any objections to adding to g202?
14:39:07 <Detlev> q-
14:39:32 <Detlev> q- Sounds
14:39:41 <Detlev> q- good
14:39:42 <jon_avila> RESOLUTION: Add note to g202 about other external devices.  Add in notes about support for device or bluetooth device.
14:40:02 <jon_avila> TOPIC: #18 Add shortcuts to allow users to jump to sections of page.
14:41:10 <jon_avila> kathleen: if it was advisory you should still pass, is that right?
14:41:23 <jon_avila> kathy: either with a ST or AT
14:41:36 <jon_avila> kathleen: we could show them how to do it but they won't necessarily have to, correct?
14:41:40 <jon_avila> kathy: correct.
14:42:10 <jon_avila> q+
14:42:44 <jon_avila> kathy: already covered, perhaps app would be different.  Could use app specific things like heading traits
14:44:18 <jon_avila> jon_avila: keyboard shortcuts covered under advisory already as future link under 2.1.1.
14:44:22 <Detlev> fine
14:44:32 <jon_avila> kathy: any objections to build out advisory technique
14:44:42 <jon_avila> RESOLUTION: Advisory technique to 2.1.1
14:44:53 <jon_avila> TOPIC: #19 Provide a way for users to change font.
14:45:23 <jon_avila> jeanne: sounds like UAAG
14:45:53 <jon_avila> jeanne: capabilities should part of browser and OS not developers responibility
14:47:53 <jon_avila> jon_avila: concern over lack of support in current devices. Could perhaps be an advisory technique or best practice for current state -- it would be good if user agents did this -- but most mobile devices are not doing this.
14:48:12 <Detlev> Sone apps like Pocket allow this  I think
14:48:29 <jon_avila> kathy: could we point to UAAG and then say if device doesn't support it.
14:48:42 <jon_avila> kathleen: are we talking about font size, color, font face, etc.
14:49:02 <jon_avila> kathy: that's currently not listed.
14:49:05 <jeanne> UAAG 1.4.1 http://jspellman.github.io/UAAG/UAAG20/#sc_141
14:50:08 <jon_avila> detlev: additional settings in apps are welcome to users with low vision because settings do not propogate.
14:50:21 <jon_avila> kathy: if we were to re-write to incorporate what we mean?
14:50:32 <jon_avila> kathleen: what is the benefit of font type.
14:50:48 <jon_avila> kathy: people with dyslexia
14:51:07 <jon_avila> zakim, who is speaking?
14:51:20 <Zakim> jon_avila, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Kathy_Wahlbin (57%), Tim_Boland (23%), Jeanne (9%), [IPcaller] (4%), Detlev (9%)
14:51:39 <jon_avila> tim: c22 is a technique that talking about using CSS to control presentation.
14:52:01 <jon_avila> tim: c22 is advisory for 1.3.1
14:52:15 <jon_avila> detlev: technique for native apps more than web apps?
14:54:33 <jon_avila> tim: c22 is also advisory for 1.4.4.
14:55:43 <Kathy> q?
14:55:49 <jon_avila> jon_avila: put in c22, but also have a style switcher technique as a best practice or advisory, etc.
14:55:51 <jon_avila> q-
14:55:58 <Detlev> sounds good
14:56:38 <jon_avila> kathy: propose advisory technique for 1.4.4 or 1.4.8 to adjust visual presentation on mobile
14:56:54 <jon_avila> RESOLUTION: advisory technique for 1.4.4 or 1.4.8 to adjust visual presentation on mobile through a style switcher
14:57:15 <jon_avila> TOPIC: #20 provide support for alternative mechanisms for devices that do not have or support a physical or equivalent keyboard
14:57:43 <jon_avila> kathy: pick up next time.
14:58:30 <jon_avila> kathy: summarizing on wiki, meeting next week, no meeting on the 4th.
14:58:40 <Detlev> Bye
14:58:41 <jon_avila> kathy: Thanks everybody
14:58:43 <Zakim> -Tim_Boland
14:58:45 <Zakim> -kathleen
14:58:47 <Zakim> -Jeanne
14:58:47 <Zakim> -Detlev
14:58:49 <Zakim> -wuwei
14:58:59 <jon_avila> zakim, list attendees
14:58:59 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Kathy_Wahlbin, +1.910.278.aaaa, kathleen, Jeanne, [IPcaller], wuwei, Jan, Detlev, Tim_Boland
14:59:11 <jon_avila> zakim, regrets
14:59:11 <Zakim> I don't understand 'regrets', jon_avila
14:59:39 <jon_avila> regrets+ alan
14:59:47 <jon_avila> zakim, regrets
14:59:47 <Zakim> I don't understand 'regrets', jon_avila
14:59:50 <jon_avila> zakim, regrets?
14:59:50 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, jon_avila.
15:00:12 <jon_avila> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:00:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/20-mobile-a11y-minutes.html jon_avila
15:00:19 <jon_avila> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:00:47 <Zakim> -Kathy_Wahlbin
15:00:49 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
15:00:49 <Zakim> WAI_MATF()10:00AM has ended
15:00:49 <Zakim> Attendees were Kathy_Wahlbin, +1.910.278.aaaa, kathleen, Jeanne, [IPcaller], wuwei, Jan, Detlev, Tim_Boland