14:55:49 RRSAgent has joined #html-media
14:55:49 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/06/03-html-media-irc
14:55:51 RRSAgent, make logs public
14:55:51 Zakim has joined #html-media
14:55:53 Zakim, this will be 63342
14:55:53 ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
14:55:54 Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
14:55:54 Date: 03 June 2014
14:56:18 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Jun/0000.html
14:57:22 HTML_WG()11:00AM has now started
14:57:29 + +1.781.221.aaaa
14:58:22 +[Microsoft]
14:58:33 zakim, [Microsoft] is me
14:58:33 +paulc; got it
14:58:47 scribe: joesteele
14:58:57 chair: paulc
14:59:54 markw has joined #html-media
15:00:07 +MarkW
15:00:11 +[IPcaller]
15:00:19 Zakim, MarkW is markw
15:00:19 +markw; got it
15:01:16 Zakim, who is here?
15:01:16 On the phone I see +1.781.221.aaaa, paulc, markw, [IPcaller]
15:01:18 On IRC I see markw, Zakim, RRSAgent, paulc, joesteele, cpearce, trackbot, wseltzer
15:01:28 Zakim, aaaa is me
15:01:29 +joesteele; got it
15:01:35 Zakim, who is here?
15:01:36 On the phone I see joesteele, paulc, markw, [IPcaller]
15:01:38 On IRC I see markw, Zakim, RRSAgent, paulc, joesteele, cpearce, trackbot, wseltzer
15:02:07 niels_t has joined #html-media
15:02:22 zakim, [IPcaller] is cpearce
15:02:22 +cpearce; got it
15:02:23 pladd has joined #html-media
15:02:29 ddorwin has joined #html-media
15:03:12 + +1.425.936.aabb
15:03:19 zakim, this is aabb
15:03:19 sorry, ddorwin, I do not see a conference named 'aabb' in progress or scheduled at this time
15:03:32 zakim, aabb is me
15:03:32 +ddorwin; got it
15:03:40 +Niels_Thorwirth
15:03:44 Topic: Agenda
15:04:07 Agenda -- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Jun/0000.html
15:04:14 Topic: Role Call
15:04:17 Zakim, who is here?
15:04:17 On the phone I see joesteele, paulc, markw, cpearce, ddorwin, Niels_Thorwirth
15:04:19 On IRC I see ddorwin, pladd, niels_t, markw, Zakim, RRSAgent, paulc, joesteele, cpearce, trackbot, wseltzer
15:04:24 rrsagent, generate minutes
15:04:24 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/03-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
15:05:23 paulc: welcome Chris Pearce!
15:06:06 jdsmith has joined #html-media
15:06:09 ... (discussion of procedure)
15:06:26 +[Microsoft]
15:06:38 Topic: EME status and bugs
15:07:01 paulc: editors draft available. Let's speka to email David sent yesterday
15:07:06 Recent changes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Jun/0002.html
15:07:10 s/speka/speak/
15:07:28 paulc: anything in particular we should be looking at?
15:07:41 BobLund has joined #html-media
15:07:46 ddorwin: nothing in particular - just wanted to make folks aware
15:07:56 ... (breaking up)
15:08:09 My microphone is muted
15:08:27 +BobLund
15:08:48 ddorwin: ClearKey is no implementable, common key is available, generic PSSH
15:09:04 paulc: PSSH was bug 24027
15:09:16 ddorwin: Mark sent an email about this
15:09:43 paulc: got it.
15:09:54 paulc: remember silence is assent -- please review changes
15:10:07 ... closing bugs but new bugs have been filed
15:10:14 Topic: New EME bugs
15:10:48 Topic: Bug 25595
15:10:55 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25595
15:11:16 + +1.425.605.aacc
15:11:19 ddorwin: dropping off to rejoin
15:11:27 -ddorwin
15:11:44 ... most of these were files by Mozilla and are clarifications
15:11:51 s/were files/were filed/
15:12:14 ... first one does not follow that model
15:13:21 joesteele: think the text is pretty clear here
15:13:34 ddorwin: think this bugs needs to be addressed after use cases
15:13:54 paulc: use case sare at agneda #7 we will pick uyp after that
15:14:03 Topic: Bug 25866
15:14:08 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25866
15:14:21 Bug 25866 - "needkey" event name is misleading
15:14:53 paulc: what is the status?
15:15:00 ddorwin: need feedback on other names
15:15:14 ... needkey is confusing since it is just providing initData
15:15:16 adrianba has joined #html-media
15:15:18 q+
15:15:36 ack joe
15:15:56 +[Microsoft.a]
15:16:06 zakim, [Microsoft.a] is me
15:16:06 +adrianba; got it
15:16:15 zakim, aacc is me
15:16:15 +ddorwin; got it
15:16:59 joesteele: I think this is OK for now. Unless we change what the initData actually is -- I would leave this as-is
15:17:11 rrsagent, pointer
15:17:11 See http://www.w3.org/2014/06/03-html-media-irc#T15-17-11
15:17:16 ... I will respond on the bug
15:17:33 Topic: [NEW] Bug 25896 - Why is EME creating new DOMException subclasses?
15:17:38 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25896
15:18:02 paulc: believe this may be related to the next bug as well
15:18:13 ... Bug 25899
15:18:19 ... have we discussed this before?
15:18:42 ddorwin: That is not an EME bug -- it is a WebApps bugs
15:18:58 ... indicates we are violating the intent by subclassing
15:19:08 ... we are going to lose system code in our exceptions and errors
15:19:09 q+
15:19:24 ... still put that in messages if desired
15:19:41 ack jdsmith
15:19:45 jdsmith: we were talking about DOMException before when we suggested this approach
15:19:58 ... David you had a proposal?
15:20:19 ddorwin: that is in the next bug, messages can be customized by the user event. System code could be put in the message somehow
15:20:33 ... main concern was that you could not respond or log them unless they were their own integer
15:20:54 ... original proposal was to go with DOMException and if experience shows we need it we could add a new member
15:21:01 ... now TAG is telling us to get rid of it
15:21:16 ... still think if we do need a system code we could consider other options - like a method
15:21:30 ... still have an error attribute - just would not be in what is fired
15:21:45 jdsmith: answers my question. we were concerned about being able to log
15:21:47 q+
15:22:07 joesteele: I will ad a comment as well
15:22:40 ack joe
15:22:56 jdsmith is going to add a comment to 25896
15:23:08 Topic: [NEW] Bug 25899 - Do not specify messages for DOMExceptions
15:23:29 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25899
15:23:41 paulc: was this covered by previous discussion?
15:24:07 ddorwin: no -- need to delete the spec text and the table
15:24:19 paulc: assigned to David and he will withdraw the change
15:24:28 Topic: [NEW] Bug 25900 - [EME] MediaKeys.loadSession(sessionId) should specify what happens if a loaded sessionId is passed
15:24:32 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25900
15:24:51 cpearce: might be my 2nd bug. Something I picked up while implementing - something not handled
15:25:00 ... when you try to load session already loaded - what happens?
15:25:09 paulc: comment from David in bug
15:25:11 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25900#c1
15:25:16 ... could return NULL
15:25:24 ... that was acceptable?
15:25:32 cpearce: yes that is fine -- just needs to be consistent
15:25:46 paulc: assigned to David.
15:25:55 ddorwin: yes I will return NULL
15:26:03 Topic: [NEW] Bug 25901 - [EME] HTMLMediaElement.mediaKeys should be nullable
15:26:16 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25901
15:26:25 ddorinw: just a syntax thing I will fix
15:26:41 Topic: [NEW] Bug 25902 - [EME] Don't use Date for MediaKeySession.expiration
15:26:53 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25902
15:27:00 cpearce: our DOM experts picked up on this
15:27:18 ... they say that Date is bad and should use unrestricted double
15:27:22 paulc: Boris agreed
15:27:31 ddorwin: agreed we should change
15:27:36 ... I will change
15:27:57 Topic: [NEW] Bug 25903 - [EME] Tighten up MediaKey Events definitions
15:28:08 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25903
15:29:15 cpearce: we noticied ambiguity in the spec when initializing MediaKey message. Think we need to define the initData and message attrobutes are copied into the message keys event from the original struct. Otherwise if a reference is copied the array may change which is bad
15:29:32 paulc: 3 things in here - David have you looked?
15:29:45 ddorwin: not in detail yet -- makes sense but not sure what the text should be
15:29:53 cpearce: I will add recommended text to the bug
15:30:21 ddorwin: for array copies we did that for the params, not sure we need spec text since theses are coming from the browser
15:30:40 cpearce: we have IDL interfaces in Javascript - could be defined by application
15:31:23 Topic: [NEW] Bug 25911 - HTMLSourceElement's IDL keysystem attribute should reflect the keysystem content attribute
15:31:33 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25911
15:31:55 paulc: no responses - but exact proposal from Chris
15:32:08 ddorwin: he is adding the last sentence
15:32:15 Proposing to add: The keySystem IDL attribute must reflect the keysystem content attribute."
15:32:27 paulc: any comments?
15:32:34 ddorwin: I will take this
15:32:45 Topic: [NEW] Bug 25918 - Remove keySystem attribute from MediaKeySession
15:32:51 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25918
15:33:05 ddorwin: this is a dup of what is on MediaKeys -- sugest we remove
15:33:11 paulc: any comments?
15:33:22 Topic: [NEW] Bug 25920 - Remove extraction of default URL from createSession() algorithm
15:33:26 +q
15:33:37 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25920
15:33:58 ack joe
15:34:27 See Joe's response: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25920#c1
15:35:07 joesteele: my response was probably a bit strong - but would like more information
15:35:38 ddorwin: putting information in the PSSH and relying on it is one of the interop issues we have discussed here and elsewhere
15:35:58 ... folks that do not want to rely on the PSSH will need to know the URL anyway
15:36:22 ... I am also concerned about the media data telling the application which servers to ping
15:36:26 q+
15:36:44 paulc: what is the interop bug you are thinking of?
15:37:07 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20944#c44
15:37:41 ack joe
15:38:03 q+
15:39:38 joesteele: don't think that removing the URL adds anything to the security and privacy since origin rules apply
15:39:48 ack jdsmith
15:40:11 jdsmith: think that MS actually proposed this in the beginning -- may actually needs it as well
15:40:20 s/needs it/need it/
15:40:35 Topic: [NEW] Bug 25923 - isTypeSupported should be asynchronous
15:40:43 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25923
15:40:56 paulc: This comes from Ana
15:41:11 ... fair amount of discussion
15:41:20 ddorwin: I am looking for feedback from app developers
15:41:32 ... major change in how this works
15:41:49 paulc: filed on May 30th - already 6 comments
15:42:02 ... encourage folks to look at this and will be on next weeks agenda
15:42:20 Topic: Other EME bugs for discussion
15:42:30 Topic: Bug 18515: HTMLMedieElement behavior and possibly replacing waitingFor with a promise
15:42:34 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18515#c28
15:43:03 paulc: this is your comment
15:43:12 ddorwin: that is mostly how MediaElement should work
15:43:24 ... looking for feedback (from Jerry and others)
15:43:34 ... #29 is another option but not a clear win
15:43:40 jdsmith: I will give feedback
15:43:48 Topic: Bug 25594: getUsablekeyIds() - synchronous vs promise
15:43:56 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25594
15:44:08 ddorwin: we discussed this briefly before
15:44:17 ... need a Promise or a method
15:44:27 ... I proposed to use Array, but that is going away
15:44:31 ... now proposing an Objedct
15:44:39 s/Objedct/Object/
15:44:53 ... don't think there is much debate except for whether a method or a Promise
15:45:01 ... I have no real opinion
15:45:07 ... pros and cons
15:45:23 paulc: one of the editors must assign this
15:45:40 ... any comments on this?
15:46:32 paulc: will someone volunteer to look at this?
15:46:39 Topic: EME Use cases Wiki
15:47:09 See Joe's promise: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014May/0044.html
15:47:10 paulc: joe promised to look at this but has not
15:47:13 Not done yet.
15:49:05 joesteele:will provide some initial input this week but will not be able to make next week most likely
15:49:17 paulc: any objections to convening in 2 weeks?
15:49:30 ... ok next meeting will be on the June 17th
15:49:51 s/joesteele:will/joesteele: will/
15:49:58 paulc: how should we discuss this?
15:49:59 q+
15:50:35 ddorwin: hoping folks would add detailed application models - has only been discussed in the abstract so far
15:50:46 ... want to know what we need to do and then discuss the how
15:51:00 ... then we could discuss new APIs etc.
15:51:14 ... that is one of the reasons I changed the format to be more specifc
15:51:14 ack joe
15:52:40 q+
15:52:43 ack dd
15:52:56 joesteele: would like to see these use cases rferred to speicfically in the bugs
15:53:20 ddorwin: Niels sent an email which referrenced to CDM -user agent interaction
15:53:29 ... don't think we need to cover that
15:53:58 niels_t: It does relate to some of the functionality that CDMs have
15:54:10 ... does not directly impact the specifiction we are talking about
15:54:18 ... but will affect it -- that is why I put it in
15:54:36 ddorwin: we may need another section of informative stuff
15:54:38 Neils email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014May/0040.html
15:54:59 niels_t: did not see a single hierarchy with one view of the system -- we have multiple views of the system
15:55:03 s/Neils/Niels/
15:55:07 ... none of these cover all of the cases
15:55:21 paulc: almost out of time
15:55:28 ... more work on wiki coming
15:55:45 ... Joe is you make the changes please send a note to the list to let people know
15:55:51 s/is you/if you/
15:56:04 paulc: you can track changes via your W3C ID
15:56:17 Topic: [EME] Reuse of session
15:56:19 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014May/0070.html
15:56:58 paulc: is there a cluster of bugs here? or just related to one bug?
15:57:14 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25268
15:57:23 ... Shinya pointed to a bug not being resolved appropriately
15:57:36 ddorwin: this thread is a month old and touched on a bunch of issues
15:57:47