IRC log of html-a11y on 2014-05-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:41:28 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
14:41:28 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-html-a11y-irc
14:41:30 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:41:32 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 2119
14:41:32 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 41 minutes ago
14:41:33 [trackbot]
Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:41:33 [trackbot]
Date: 29 May 2014
14:41:39 [janina]
agenda?
14:41:48 [janina]
zakim, clear agenda
14:41:48 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
14:41:55 [janina]
Meeting: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference
14:41:55 [janina]
Chair: Janina
14:41:55 [janina]
agenda+ Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
14:41:58 [janina]
agenda+ Longdesc [See Below]
14:42:01 [janina]
agenda+ Canvas 2D Status & Next Steps [See Below]
14:42:03 [janina]
agenda+ Alt Call for Consensus [See Below]
14:42:06 [janina]
agenda+ Media Subteam
14:42:08 [janina]
agenda+ Bug Triage [see below]
14:42:11 [janina]
agenda+ HTML 5.1 Next Steps [See Below]
14:42:13 [janina]
agenda+ Other Business
14:42:16 [janina]
agenda+ Identify Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
14:42:19 [janina]
agenda+ be done
14:49:48 [janina]
zakim, next item
14:49:48 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List" taken up [from janina]
14:52:45 [Zakim]
WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has now started
14:52:52 [Zakim]
+??P2
14:52:58 [janina]
zakim, ??P2 is me
14:52:58 [Zakim]
+janina; got it
15:00:35 [aardrian]
aardrian has joined #html-a11y
15:00:38 [Zakim]
+Adrian_Roselli
15:00:51 [aardrian]
zakim, who is here?
15:00:51 [Zakim]
On the phone I see janina, Adrian_Roselli
15:00:53 [Zakim]
On IRC I see aardrian, RRSAgent, chaals, IanPouncey1, sivoais_, janina, cabanier, Zakim, hober, MarkS, trackbot
15:00:57 [Zakim]
+Mark_Sadecki
15:01:04 [Zakim]
+Cynthia_Shelly
15:01:47 [chaals]
zakim, who is here?
15:01:54 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:01:56 [Zakim]
On the phone I see janina, Adrian_Roselli, Mark_Sadecki, Cynthia_Shelly, [IPcaller]
15:01:56 [Zakim]
+JF
15:01:56 [Zakim]
On IRC I see aardrian, RRSAgent, chaals, IanPouncey1, sivoais_, janina, cabanier, Zakim, hober, MarkS, trackbot
15:02:00 [chaals]
zakim, [ipc is me
15:02:00 [Zakim]
+chaals; got it
15:02:05 [Zakim]
+Judy
15:02:31 [Judy]
Judy has joined #html-a11y
15:02:32 [paulc]
paulc has joined #html-a11y
15:02:32 [chaals]
scribe: chaals
15:03:04 [chaals]
zakim, next agendum
15:03:04 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Longdesc" taken up [from See Below]
15:03:19 [chaals]
q+ to apologise
15:03:27 [JF]
JF has joined #html-a11y
15:03:27 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
15:03:44 [paulc]
zakim, [Microsoft] is me
15:03:44 [Zakim]
+paulc; got it
15:03:51 [chaals]
zakim, [Micro is Paul-who-wants-to-know-what-we-did-last-week
15:03:51 [Zakim]
sorry, chaals, I do not recognize a party named '[Micro'
15:04:09 [JF]
Q+
15:04:14 [chaals]
q-
15:05:05 [chaals]
ack jf
15:05:09 [janina]
ack j
15:05:31 [chaals]
PaulC: So we will have a spec next week we hope, then CfC in this group, then HTML, then director meeting.
15:05:35 [chaals]
Marks: Yep.
15:06:26 [chaals]
JF: Sent email in reply to comment on james craig's suggestion to reject longdesc for mathml. Result of looking is that neither of these solutions alone would work - so the comment shouldn't be highlighted one way or another.
15:07:04 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:07:15 [chaals]
-> http://www.w3.org/mid/036b01cf7789$3e3158c0$ba940a40$@ca John's email
15:07:23 [chaals]
ACTION-195?
15:07:23 [trackbot]
ACTION-195 -- John Foliot to Contact edu folks re: mathml support and failure status in 2 weeks -- due 2013-09-19 -- CLOSED
15:07:23 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/195
15:07:34 [chaals]
JS: There is not support in mainstream browsers?
15:07:53 [chaals]
JF: There is in Safari and Firefox, but AT support isn't that good either...
15:08:24 [chaals]
MS: We came up with a broader, more general statement that we hope accommodates for current problems and points to solutions that we hope will work in time.
15:08:38 [chaals]
PC: Is the comment about access support in MathML documented somewhere?
15:09:48 [Judy]
q+
15:10:16 [JF]
Q+
15:10:32 [chaals]
CMN: It was discussed to a certain extent in the bug...
15:12:06 [chaals]
JB: My understanding is implementation support issues are known, but not well-documented in ways that will help work going forward.
15:12:24 [chaals]
… most problems I know of are specifically with regard to browser support.
15:12:49 [chaals]
… I think there is an opportunity to document and follow up on MathML accessibility and would love some thoughts about good ways to do that.
15:12:58 [MarkS]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Jul/0046.html
15:13:03 [chaals]
CS: I've looked into this too. JF, want to collaborate on this?
15:13:07 [janina]
ack judy
15:13:13 [janina]
ack jf
15:13:23 [chaals]
JF: I would be happy to do that, would be happy to make introductions to people who work specifically on this.
15:13:31 [LJWatson]
LJWatson has joined #html-a11y
15:13:40 [chaals]
… problem with MathML is two-fold - rendering in browsers
15:13:46 [chaals]
q+ to ask for su to go back on topic
15:14:14 [chaals]
JF: There are people relying on Mathjax. Complex problem - everyone sees MathML as the future but that it doesn't work yet.
15:14:25 [chaals]
agenda+ mathML accessibility
15:14:52 [Judy]
q+
15:15:02 [chaals]
JS: There are standalone products with good accessible support, and general consternation at blink dropping mathml support.
15:15:19 [janina]
q?
15:15:26 [chaals]
q-
15:15:39 [chaals]
ack judy
15:15:50 [chaals]
JB: Suggestion to make a wiki page is only good if it gets plugged into the relevant places.
15:16:18 [chaals]
ACTION: cyns to create a wiki page dealing with math accessibility
15:16:18 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-256 - Create a wiki page dealing with math accessibility [on Cynthia Shelly - due 2014-06-05].
15:16:34 [chaals]
zakim, close this item
15:16:34 [Zakim]
agendum 2 closed
15:16:35 [Zakim]
I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:16:35 [Zakim]
3. Canvas 2D Status & Next Steps [from See Below via janina]
15:16:49 [chaals]
ACTION-256 due 2014-07-07
15:16:49 [trackbot]
Set ACTION-256 Create a wiki page dealing with math accessibility due date to 2014-07-07.
15:16:57 [chaals]
zakim, take up item 3
15:16:57 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Canvas 2D Status & Next Steps" taken up [from See Below via janina]
15:17:20 [chaals]
MS: we have support for drawfocus/hit regions in FF nightly.
15:17:50 [chaals]
… nothing new from Chrome but they are working with Samsung to get hitregions done - they already support drawfocus.
15:17:59 [chaals]
… talking to HTML chairs about future of canvas subgroup.
15:18:22 [chaals]
PC: HTML chairs didn't meet this week. Will consider that tomorrow when we meet face to face.
15:18:27 [chaals]
zakim, close this item.
15:18:27 [Zakim]
agendum 3 closed
15:18:28 [Zakim]
I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:18:28 [Zakim]
4. Alt Call for Consensus [from See Below via janina]
15:18:32 [chaals]
zakim, take up next item
15:18:32 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Alt Call for Consensus" taken up [from See Below]
15:18:57 [chaals]
JS: New call for consensus on Alt stuff.
15:19:11 [chaals]
s/Alt stuff/guidance for text alternatives in HTML/
15:19:46 [chaals]
… this is important and fairly complex, covering edits to 2 documents - standalone guidance document from Steve, plus changes made to HTML5 spec.
15:20:07 [MarkS]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2014May/0110.html ALT CfC for
15:20:12 [chaals]
… also a recommendation in terms of next steps - proposed to publish steve's document as a Note with no further development planned.
15:20:32 [chaals]
s/ALT CFC for/CfC on Alt guidance/
15:20:37 [paulc]
q+
15:20:52 [chaals]
ack paul
15:21:05 [janina]
ack p
15:21:48 [chaals]
PC: sent note to co-chairs preparing for meeting with TimBL tomorrow. Think introducing a link to a page about text is only in 5.1, not in 5.0. Has that been discussed or is it just a pending edit?
15:22:09 [chaals]
MS: Later today I will have the results of comparing them. We can talk with Robin.
15:22:38 [chaals]
PC: think the intent of the TF was to have the link in 5.0
15:22:41 [chaals]
JS: Indeed.
15:22:55 [chaals]
zakim, close this item
15:22:55 [Zakim]
agendum 4 closed
15:22:56 [Zakim]
I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:22:56 [Zakim]
5. Media Subteam [from janina]
15:22:59 [chaals]
zakim, take up item 5
15:22:59 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Media Subteam" taken up [from janina]
15:23:40 [chaals]
MS: We met to provide feedback to WebTV IG on use cases.
15:23:56 [chaals]
… Web/TV reps present have taken the work back to their IG
15:24:54 [chaals]
JS: Owe them a use case that I haven't written up. Also got a note inviting us to a call of theirs - at a date To Be Determined
15:25:12 [chaals]
MS: Updated Media User Requirements Accessibility doc. should be ready soon.
15:25:26 [chaals]
JS: Propose section 4.8 should be rewritten before next heartbeat.
15:25:35 [chaals]
… the title is odd.
15:26:00 [chaals]
… Now we have a title "second screen" for what we want to cover. But the section itself is also not that well articulated.
15:26:21 [chaals]
… We should get a heartbeat draft out as soon as we can.
15:26:33 [janina]
q?
15:26:33 [chaals]
CMN: Please get the heartbeat out.
15:26:38 [chaals]
zakim, close this item
15:26:38 [Zakim]
agendum 5 closed
15:26:40 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:26:40 [Zakim]
7. HTML 5.1 Next Steps [from See Below via janina]
15:26:51 [chaals]
zakim, take up item 7
15:26:51 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "HTML 5.1 Next Steps" taken up [from See Below via janina]
15:27:00 [chaals]
zakim, agenda?
15:27:00 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
15:27:01 [Zakim]
7. HTML 5.1 Next Steps [from See Below via janina]
15:27:01 [Zakim]
8. Other Business [from janina]
15:27:01 [Zakim]
9. Identify Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List [from janina]
15:27:01 [Zakim]
10. be done [from janina]
15:27:01 [Zakim]
11. mathML accessibility [from chaals]
15:27:51 [MarkS]
-> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/51wishlist HTML 5.1 Wishlist Wiki
15:27:53 [chaals]
JS: We looked at interest areas, some of us took on areas we wanted to achieve things.
15:28:05 [chaals]
… propose we try to put some deadlines on the activity.
15:28:28 [chaals]
… Start scheduling the topics on TF meeting agenda as feasible.
15:29:01 [chaals]
… (this is really about HTML.next)
15:29:02 [chaals]
q+
15:29:02 [MarkS]
q+
15:29:07 [chaals]
q- later
15:29:16 [janina]
q?
15:29:16 [chaals]
ack mar
15:29:20 [janina]
ack m
15:29:44 [chaals]
MS: During Bug Triage we hit some bugs that we may want to take up - accesskey got added to the list.
15:30:17 [chaals]
… think it would be helpful to express an interest in hot priority items.
15:30:43 [chaals]
… Items someone is interested in are not the same as items that are generally considered important.
15:30:46 [janina]
ack c
15:31:34 [MarkS]
CMN: Regrets for all of June, but happy to present on Accesskey after open web camp in the middle of july. won't be able to do payments until augugst
15:32:39 [chaals]
MS: There are media subteam items...
15:33:12 [chaals]
JF: A lot of the research on transcript has been done, but it got left on the table in the shift of process, and the ball got dropped. SHould be quick to resolve.
15:33:29 [chaals]
JS: Plan-2014 authorises us to make extension specs for this if we choose.
15:33:37 [chaals]
JF: Right. But we haven't done that so far.
15:33:37 [Zakim]
+David_MacDonald
15:34:12 [David]
David has joined #html-a11y
15:35:16 [chaals]
JF: What's the date?
15:35:27 [chaals]
CMN: presenting something in this meeting - should have satarted, may not be finished.
15:35:47 [chaals]
ACTION: foliot present on transcript and media descriptions
15:35:47 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-257 - Present on transcript and media descriptions [on John Foliot - due 2014-06-05].
15:36:00 [chaals]
ACTION-257 due 2014-08-01
15:36:00 [trackbot]
Set ACTION-257 Present on transcript and media descriptions due date to 2014-08-01.
15:36:14 [chaals]
JS: Let's do 3rd week in July for Date UI
15:36:39 [chaals]
ACTION: janina present on date UI in TF meeting. Due 2014-07-20
15:36:39 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-258 - Present on date ui in tf meeting. due 2014-07-20 [on Janina Sajka - due 2014-06-05].
15:37:09 [chaals]
ACTION: chaals present accesskey in TF meeting.
15:37:10 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-259 - Present accesskey in tf meeting. [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2014-06-05].
15:37:26 [chaals]
ACTION-259 due 2014-7-15
15:37:26 [trackbot]
Set ACTION-259 Present accesskey in tf meeting. due date to 2014-07-15.
15:37:45 [chaals]
MS: Lisa, Marku are interested but don't have dates expressed.
15:38:09 [David]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:38:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-html-a11y-minutes.html David
15:38:26 [chaals]
… also need to follow up Jeanne Spellman, Rich, Ian Puncey, …
15:39:05 [chaals]
… referencing UAAG is Jeanne. Need to wait for UAAG to get further along before we can do anything there.
15:39:18 [chaals]
… general media stuff was assigned to the sub-team.
15:39:27 [chaals]
ACTION: chaals to present web payments in TF meeting
15:39:27 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-260 - Present web payments in tf meeting [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2014-06-05].
15:39:41 [chaals]
ACTION-260 Due 2014-08-25
15:39:41 [trackbot]
Set ACTION-260 Present web payments in tf meeting due date to 2014-08-25.
15:40:15 [chaals]
MS: Footnotes and stuff is kind of complex. Talked to some folks on it. Some time in July I hope.
15:40:32 [chaals]
… realtime chat - leonie, Janina...
15:41:00 [chaals]
LW: Mid-june works for me...
15:41:16 [chaals]
ACTION: leonie to present realtime chat in TF meeting
15:41:16 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-261 - Present realtime chat in tf meeting [on Léonie Watson - due 2014-06-05].
15:41:22 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller.a]
15:41:32 [IanPouncey1]
Zakim, IPcaller.a is me
15:41:32 [Zakim]
+IanPouncey1; got it
15:41:45 [chaals]
ACTION-261 due 2014-06-27
15:41:45 [trackbot]
Set ACTION-261 Present realtime chat in tf meeting due date to 2014-06-27.
15:42:04 [chaals]
CS: can I add menus?
15:42:08 [chaals]
[sure you can]
15:42:26 [chaals]
ACTION: cyns to present on menus in TF meeting
15:42:27 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-262 - Present on menus in tf meeting [on Cynthia Shelly - due 2014-06-05].
15:43:14 [janina]
zakim, who's on the phone?
15:43:14 [Zakim]
On the phone I see janina, Adrian_Roselli, Mark_Sadecki, Cynthia_Shelly, chaals, JF, Judy, paulc, [IPcaller], David_MacDonald, IanPouncey1
15:43:18 [chaals]
JS: What are the most important?
15:43:36 [chaals]
CMN: THe ones I am going to work on...
15:43:58 [chaals]
JS: Calendar would be good, if we are willing to move somewhere on that. I think media is a big win emerging too.
15:44:24 [chaals]
zakim, [ipc is probably leonie
15:44:24 [Zakim]
+leonie?; got it
15:44:33 [chaals]
AR: calendar, media
15:44:48 [chaals]
… but given more time I could come up with a better list.
15:45:38 [chaals]
MS: Media, real time chat, anythng for forms, anything I think we missed in 5 - accesskey. In that order.
15:45:46 [chaals]
CS: menus, calendars
15:45:55 [chaals]
CMN: abstain
15:46:44 [chaals]
JF: media, especially transcript. payments.
15:47:15 [chaals]
Judy: Fix all the problems…
15:47:50 [chaals]
… sounds like a lot of people are looking around mid-july to start talking. WOuld encourage people to move earlier so we start getting the hang of some topics. This might change perceptions on priority.
15:48:14 [chaals]
JS: 5.1 is aiming for last call in Q4
15:48:24 [chaals]
PC: no comments
15:48:32 [chaals]
… Video.
15:49:05 [chaals]
IP: Media, transcripts. Menus
15:49:21 [chaals]
LW: abstain
15:49:53 [janina]
q?
15:50:20 [chaals]
DM: video. calendar.
15:50:33 [chaals]
zakim, agenda?
15:50:33 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
15:50:34 [Zakim]
7. HTML 5.1 Next Steps [from See Below via janina]
15:50:34 [Zakim]
8. Other Business [from janina]
15:50:34 [Zakim]
9. Identify Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List [from janina]
15:50:34 [Zakim]
10. be done [from janina]
15:50:34 [Zakim]
11. mathML accessibility [from chaals]
15:50:45 [chaals]
zakim, close this item
15:50:45 [Zakim]
agendum 7 closed
15:50:46 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:50:46 [Zakim]
8. Other Business [from janina]
15:50:51 [chaals]
zakim, take up item 11
15:50:51 [Zakim]
agendum 11. "mathML accessibility" taken up [from chaals]
15:51:11 [chaals]
agenda+ Bug Tirage
15:51:17 [chaals]
s/Tirage/Triage/
15:51:25 [chaals]
zakim, take up agendum 12
15:51:25 [Zakim]
agendum 12. "Bug Tirage" taken up [from chaals]
15:51:40 [chaals]
s/Tirage/Triage/
15:51:59 [LJWatson]
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&component=HTML%20a11y%20Task%20Force&list_id=38179&product=HTML%20WG&query_format=advanced
15:52:06 [chaals]
LW: Have cleared our backlog of 5.0 bugs. We have 8 bugs in holding pattern in TF component.
15:52:22 [LJWatson]
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13639
15:52:28 [chaals]
… one bug we want TF input. Needs some looking at.
15:52:34 [chaals]
… support for CSS2 colours.
15:53:18 [chaals]
… if this is a valid issue we need to know why and what to do.
15:53:31 [chaals]
JS: Suspect it is still a valid problem, but to what extent?
15:54:22 [chaals]
… Users who have issues with colour contrast set up systems to match them. Having systems that don't respect those causes problems. We have had problems getting tools to honour system colours.
15:54:41 [chaals]
s/CSS2 colours/CSS2 system colours/
15:54:56 [chaals]
DM: Wayne Dick?
15:56:01 [JF]
ACTION: JF top contact Wayne Dick for input on CSS2 system colours issue
15:56:02 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-263 - Top contact wayne dick for input on css2 system colours issue [on John Foliot - due 2014-06-05].
15:56:12 [paulc]
Leaving to prep for the WG meeting.
15:56:19 [Zakim]
-paulc
15:56:25 [chaals]
zakim, take up item 12
15:56:25 [Zakim]
agendum 12. "Bug Tirage" taken up [from chaals]
15:56:30 [chaals]
zakim, take up item 11
15:56:30 [Zakim]
agendum 11. "mathML accessibility" taken up [from chaals]
15:56:38 [chaals]
JF: I can do some email introductions.
15:56:47 [chaals]
… do you know Sean and Greg?
15:56:51 [chaals]
CS: I know some people.
15:57:03 [chaals]
JF: There is a bunch of expertise around .edu sector.
15:57:14 [chaals]
JS: Also Neill ??? from design science.
15:57:26 [MarkS]
Sina Bahram has done a lot of work with MathML. I think he is with DesignScience as well
15:57:45 [chaals]
CS: Let's synch this offline.
15:58:17 [Zakim]
-Cynthia_Shelly
15:58:41 [Zakim]
-leonie?
15:58:43 [Zakim]
-JF
15:58:44 [Zakim]
-IanPouncey1
15:58:45 [Zakim]
-Adrian_Roselli
15:58:46 [Zakim]
-janina
15:58:46 [chaals]
[adjourned]
15:58:46 [Zakim]
-David_MacDonald
15:58:47 [Zakim]
-Judy
15:58:49 [aardrian]
aardrian has left #html-a11y
15:58:58 [Zakim]
-Mark_Sadecki
15:59:21 [Zakim]
-chaals
15:59:21 [Zakim]
WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has ended
15:59:21 [Zakim]
Attendees were janina, Adrian_Roselli, Mark_Sadecki, Cynthia_Shelly, [IPcaller], JF, chaals, Judy, paulc, David_MacDonald, IanPouncey1, leonie?
15:59:51 [MarkS]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:59:51 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/29-html-a11y-minutes.html MarkS
16:48:07 [IanPouncey]
IanPouncey has joined #html-a11y
17:06:32 [Judy]
Judy has joined #html-a11y