14:55:42 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
14:55:42 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/05/27-wai-wcag-irc
14:55:44 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:55:46 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
14:55:46 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
14:55:47 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
14:55:47 <trackbot> Date: 27 May 2014
14:55:53 <AWK> Zakim, agenda?
14:55:53 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
14:55:54 <Zakim> 2. Survey: May 20 2014 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20140520/ [from Joshue108]
14:55:54 <Zakim> 3. Discussion on meeting with EOWG regarding LC-28 [from Joshue108]
14:55:54 <Zakim> 4. Review of open issues: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/issues/open [from Joshue108]
14:55:54 <Zakim> 5. Review of accessibility tutorials - call for interest [from Joshue108]
14:56:13 <AWK> Zakim, remove agenda item 5
14:56:13 <Zakim> I don't understand 'remove agenda item 5', AWK
14:56:19 <AWK> Zakim, remove item 5
14:56:19 <Zakim> agendum 5, Review of accessibility tutorials - call for interest, dropped
14:56:33 <AWK> Zakim, remove item 3
14:56:33 <Zakim> agendum 3, Discussion on meeting with EOWG regarding LC-28, dropped
14:56:51 <Loretta> Loretta has joined #WAI-WCAG
14:57:30 <AWK> Agenda+ SUrvey: May 27, 2014 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/2705_2014/results
14:57:57 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has now started
14:58:01 <Zakim> +kathleen
14:58:04 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
14:58:25 <Zakim> +AWK
14:59:28 <David> David has joined #wai-wcag
14:59:47 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:00:05 <Loretta> zakim, IPcaller is Loretta
15:00:05 <Zakim> +Loretta; got it
15:00:16 <Joshue> Joshue has joined #wai-wcag
15:00:21 <Sailesh> Sailesh has joined #wai-wcag
15:00:24 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:00:35 <Kathy> Kathy has joined #wai-wcag
15:00:45 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
15:01:09 <Zakim> +Sailesh_Panchang
15:01:15 <Zakim> +Kathy_Wahlbin
15:01:53 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
15:01:55 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:02:02 <Joshue> zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue
15:02:02 <Zakim> +Joshue; got it
15:02:12 <AWK> Agenda+ Brief item on meeting with EOWG regarding LC-2895.
15:02:27 <AWK> Agenda+ Brief update on progress regarding the review of EO accessibility tutorials.
15:02:36 <Zakim> +Marc_Johlic
15:02:56 <AWK> Regrets+ Bruce, Katie, Wilco, Jon Avila
15:03:43 <AWK> Regrets- Jon Avila
15:03:48 <jon_avila> jon_avila has joined #wai-wcag
15:03:48 <AWK> Zakim, regrets?
15:03:48 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, AWK.
15:04:07 <AWK> RRSAgent, make minutes?
15:04:07 <RRSAgent> I'm logging.  Sorry, nothing found for 'make minutes'
15:04:19 <AWK> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:04:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/27-wai-wcag-minutes.html AWK
15:04:24 <Zakim> +jon_avila
15:05:02 <Joshue> zakim, agenda?
15:05:02 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
15:05:03 <Zakim> 2. Survey: May 20 2014 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20140520/ [from Joshue108]
15:05:03 <Zakim> 4. Review of open issues: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/issues/open [from Joshue108]
15:05:03 <Zakim> 6. SUrvey: May 27, 2014 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/2705_2014/results [from AWK]
15:05:03 <Zakim> 7. Brief item on meeting with EOWG regarding LC-2895. [from AWK]
15:05:03 <Zakim> 8. Brief update on progress regarding the review of EO accessibility tutorials. [from AWK]
15:05:40 <AWK> Regrets Bruce, Katie, Wilco
15:05:49 <AWK> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:05:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/27-wai-wcag-minutes.html AWK
15:06:41 <AWK> Chair: AWK
15:06:48 <Zakim> +??P2
15:06:56 <AWK> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List
15:06:59 <Kathy> zakim, mute me
15:06:59 <Zakim> Kathy_Wahlbin should now be muted
15:07:19 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
15:07:19 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:08:18 <Joshue> ack me
15:08:21 <AWK> Zakim, take up item 7"
15:08:21 <Zakim> '7\"' does not match any agenda item, AWK
15:08:23 <AWK> Zakim, take up item 7
15:08:23 <Zakim> agendum 7. "Brief item on meeting with EOWG regarding LC-2895." taken up [from AWK]
15:08:59 <kathleen> joshue: are we going to have a meeting with eowg? needs to be scheduled.
15:09:07 <MichaelC> ack me
15:09:24 <kathleen> awk: do people feel we need to have a meeting?
15:09:44 <kathleen> david: this Friday 8:30 am ET
15:10:49 <kathleen> awk: the goal is that this is the last cycle we spend on it
15:11:18 <kathleen> awk: handle via email?
15:12:09 <David> q+
15:12:31 <kathleen> david: mostly around the term "accessible for all"
15:14:05 <AWK> 2895: https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20140107/2895
15:14:09 <Joshue> ack davi
15:14:34 <kathleen> marc: will there be an email with the callin info?
15:15:59 <MichaelC> EO call details: 3694 ("EOWG")
15:16:05 <AWK> EO call on Friday 8:30 am ET: call in ID 3694
15:16:08 <kathleen> awk: passcode: 3694
15:16:26 <kathleen> irc: #eo
15:17:04 <AWK> RESOLUTION: Group meeting on Friday with EO will report back
15:17:11 <AWK> Zakim, close item 7
15:17:11 <Zakim> agendum 7, Brief item on meeting with EOWG regarding LC-2895., closed
15:17:12 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:17:12 <Zakim> 2. Survey: May 20 2014 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20140520/ [from Joshue108]
15:17:22 <AWK> Zakim, take up item 8
15:17:22 <Zakim> agendum 8. "Brief update on progress regarding the review of EO accessibility tutorials." taken up [from AWK]
15:18:10 <Joshue> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/EOTutorials_review
15:18:24 <kathleen> awk: josh put together a wiki page
15:18:47 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
15:18:47 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:19:05 <kathleen> awk: any questions?
15:19:09 <AWK> ZAkim, agenda?
15:19:10 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
15:19:10 <Zakim> 2. Survey: May 20 2014 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20140520/ [from Joshue108]
15:19:10 <Zakim> 4. Review of open issues: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/issues/open [from Joshue108]
15:19:10 <Zakim> 6. SUrvey: May 27, 2014 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/2705_2014/results [from AWK]
15:19:11 <Zakim> 8. Brief update on progress regarding the review of EO accessibility tutorials. [from AWK]
15:19:13 <AWK> Zakim close item 8
15:19:14 <Joshue> zakim, queue?
15:19:14 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
15:19:32 <AWK> Zakim, take up item 2
15:19:32 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Survey: May 20 2014 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20140520/" taken up [from Joshue108]
15:19:52 <jon_avila> what about action items?
15:20:02 <Joshue> ack me
15:20:10 <jon_avila> yes
15:20:23 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
15:20:23 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:20:56 <kathleen> awk: Using the aside element to associate content related to an article
15:22:03 <kathleen> david: the aside should make sense out of context
15:23:11 <kathleen> awk: what qualifies as sufficiently tangental?
15:25:17 <kathleen> david: for all content that has an aside tag, ensure the following ....
15:25:58 <kathleen> awk: jon, what is the current accessibility support?
15:26:50 <kathleen> jon: lack of supposrt in NVDA could be an NVDA bug
15:27:32 <kathleen> loretta: example confusing,  not what I would think aside would be used for
15:27:37 <Joshue> ack me
15:28:18 <Joshue> ack me
15:28:43 <Joshue> q+
15:28:50 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
15:28:50 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:29:44 <Zakim> +James_Nurthen
15:29:55 <Joshue> zakim, queue?
15:29:55 <Zakim> I see Sailesh_Panchang, Joshue on the speaker queue
15:30:03 <kathleen> loretta: used for a side discussion of the main article
15:30:47 <Joshue> ack sail
15:31:13 <kathleen> sailesh: the word tangential is used in the HTML definiton of the term
15:31:46 <kathleen> sailesh: layment's term would be sidebar
15:31:48 <David> q+
15:32:05 <David> q-
15:32:06 <Joshue> ack me
15:32:24 <kathleen> josh: full disclosure: I wrote this.
15:32:52 <kathleen> josh: modify the examples
15:32:58 <David> q+
15:33:02 <AWK> ack d
15:33:03 <jon_avila> q?
15:33:07 <jon_avila> q+
15:33:25 <kathleen> david: the aside would contain repeated content
15:33:38 <AWK> Ack jo
15:34:20 <kathleen> jon: looking at the spec, I assumed you could have multiple asides apply to different articles
15:34:30 <Joshue> great question
15:34:35 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
15:34:47 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
15:34:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/27-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
15:36:12 <kathleen> david: need to discuss best practices for the aside element
15:36:51 <Joshue> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_HTML5_aside_element
15:36:54 <David> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_the_aside_element_to_associate_content_related_to_an_article
15:38:04 <AWK> zakim, queue?
15:38:04 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
15:38:34 <kathleen> josh: modified example to move the aside outside of the article
15:40:07 <kathleen> awk: remove the reference to the aside from the article itself
15:41:05 <Joshue> zakim, queue?
15:41:05 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
15:41:48 <kathleen> awk: are you allowed to have an aside outside an article?
15:42:03 <jon_avila> q+
15:42:12 <AWK> ack j
15:42:12 <kathleen> josh: I will check the spec
15:42:40 <Joshue> It can go into any flow content
15:42:56 <kathleen> jon: the W3C wiki says examples are sidebars, pull quotes advertising and groups of nav elements
15:43:18 <Joshue> http://www.w3.org/TR/html-markup/common-models.html#common.elem.flow
15:43:51 <MichaelC> ack me
15:45:58 <kathleen> LOL
15:45:59 <Joshue> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_HTML5_aside_element
15:47:09 <jamesn> q+
15:47:41 <jon_avila> +1
15:47:49 <Joshue> +1
15:48:30 <kathleen> awk: it sounds like all the concerns people have are around the examples
15:48:44 <jamesn> q-
15:49:01 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
15:49:01 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:49:12 <kathleen> david: create 3 examples - one for each use referred to in the spec?
15:49:49 <kathleen> daid: I can write the example for the pull quote
15:50:10 <AWK> ACTION: David to write a pull quote example for https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_the_aside_element_to_associate_content_related_to_an_article
15:50:10 <trackbot> 'David' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., dmacdona, dtodd2).
15:50:34 <Joshue> ack me
15:50:48 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
15:50:48 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:50:51 <jamesn> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/sections.html#the-aside-element
15:51:20 <AWK> ACTION: dmacdona to write a pull quote example for https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_the_aside_element_to_associate_content_related_to_an_article
15:51:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-258 - Write a pull quote example for https://www.w3.org/wai/gl/wiki/using_the_aside_element_to_associate_content_related_to_an_article [on David MacDonald - due 2014-06-03].
15:53:41 <jamesn> The aside element represents a section of a page that consists of content that is tangentially related to the content around the aside element, and which could be considered separate from that content. Such sections are often represented as sidebars in printed typography.
15:53:41 <jamesn> The element can be used for typographical effects like pull quotes or sidebars, for advertising, for groups of nav elements, and for other content that is considered separate from the main content of the page.
15:53:58 <Joshue> ack me
15:54:16 <Joshue> http://www.w3.org/TR/html-markup/common-models.html#common.elem.flow
15:54:48 <jamesn> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/sections.html#the-aside-element
15:55:11 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
15:55:11 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:55:26 <kathleen> jon: add the objective back in?
15:56:00 <kathleen> awk: to indicate the tangentially related conent using the HTML aside element
15:57:01 <Joshue> s/conent/content
15:57:28 <Joshue> ack me
15:58:21 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
15:58:21 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:58:40 <kathleen> sailesh: do the test need to be modified?
15:59:46 <kathleen> sailesh: tangentially related content can be makred up in other ways
16:01:22 <kathleen> jon: if you use an aside, it has to be tangentially related to the content
16:01:26 <Joshue> s/makred/marked
16:02:56 <Joshue> q+
16:03:00 <Joshue> ack me
16:03:29 <kathleen> awk: for each instance of this item, make sure you are doing it correctly
16:03:31 <Joshue> +q
16:05:47 <AWK> ack j
16:05:53 <Joshue> ack me
16:06:01 <jon_avila> q+
16:06:31 <AWK> JO: open issue for me is how to create the programmatic association b/w an aside and its parent
16:07:03 <AWK> DM: don't think it is necessary.  A sighted person doesn't know _exact_ context for pull quote
16:07:45 <AWK> JO: That is not how I understand it...
16:07:56 <kathleen> I'm back
16:07:57 <AWK> DM: what does the spec say?
16:08:37 <kathleen> josh: how do you connect the aside to the correct article?
16:09:39 <AWK> ack jon
16:09:54 <Joshue> zakim, queue?
16:09:54 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
16:10:31 <kathleen> jon: related links - the relationship does matter
16:11:13 <kathleen> jon: we need a techniques to encourage people to use an aside
16:11:47 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
16:11:47 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:13:01 <Joshue> zakim, agenda?
16:13:01 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
16:13:02 <Zakim> 2. Survey: May 20 2014 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20140520/ [from Joshue108]
16:13:02 <Zakim> 4. Review of open issues: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/issues/open [from Joshue108]
16:13:02 <Zakim> 6. SUrvey: May 27, 2014 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/2705_2014/results [from AWK]
16:13:02 <Zakim> 8. Brief update on progress regarding the review of EO accessibility tutorials. [from AWK]
16:13:28 <kathleen> RESOLUTION: leave open pending further action on 258 and editing by Jon
16:14:26 <kathleen> TOPIC:  New Technique: Grouping related links using the nav element
16:14:59 <kathleen> awk: seems that people like it
16:15:33 <kathleen> awk: david >> Consider adding example of two or three navs on a page using aria-label primary secondary...
16:16:13 <Joshue> zakim, queue?
16:16:14 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
16:16:35 <Joshue> q+
16:16:36 <Kathy> q+
16:16:41 <Kathy> ack me
16:16:42 <Joshue> ack me
16:16:44 <kathleen> awk: what do other people think?
16:17:02 <Kathy> q+
16:17:18 <AWK> ack kath
16:17:22 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
16:17:22 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:17:23 <kathleen> josh: what distinguishes the content of each nav?
16:17:27 <Kathy> q-
16:17:47 <kathleen> kathy: we should have labels on the navgroup even if there's only one
16:18:06 <kathleen> awk: should it be part of the procedure?
16:18:12 <Loretta> This does go beyond WCAG
16:18:18 <kathleen> kathy: if there is more than one, we should require it
16:18:29 <Joshue> ack me
16:19:04 <kathleen> loretta: there is no requirement in WCAG
16:19:29 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
16:19:29 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:19:39 <Kathy> zakim, mute me
16:19:39 <Zakim> Kathy_Wahlbin should now be muted
16:20:25 <AWK> ack s
16:21:31 <kathleen> sailesh: we should say navigation elements, not just links
16:21:39 <Joshue> ack me
16:21:46 <Joshue> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/aria.html#ARIA11
16:21:59 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
16:21:59 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:22:34 <Joshue> ack me
16:22:44 <Kathy> ack me
16:23:05 <kathleen> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Grouping_related_links_using_the_nav_element
16:23:06 <David> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Grouping_related_links_using_the_nav_element#Example_2:_Navigation_links_enclosed_in_a_nav_element.
16:23:06 <AWK> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Grouping_related_links_using_the_nav_element
16:23:52 <kathleen> josh: do we need to describe primary vs secondary navigation?
16:24:06 <jon_avila> q+
16:24:19 <kathleen> kathy: primary nav is usually the site nvigation
16:24:37 <Joshue> zakim, queue?
16:24:37 <Zakim> I see jon_avila on the speaker queue
16:24:40 <Kathy> zakim, mute me
16:24:40 <Zakim> Kathy_Wahlbin should now be muted
16:24:43 <Joshue> ack jon
16:24:57 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
16:24:57 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:25:36 <kathleen> jon: it is accessibility supported
16:27:20 <kathleen> jon: more about the structure than about skipping past it
16:27:58 <kathleen> RESOLUTION: leave open
16:28:05 <AWK> We went through comments up to Detlev's on the last item
16:28:22 <Joshue> which was Grouping related links using the nav element
16:28:36 <AWK> TOPIC: Action items
16:28:37 <AWK> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/
16:28:38 <kathleen> awk: need to talk about action item purging
16:29:03 <kathleen> awk: we have 258 open items in the action item list
16:29:13 <kathleen> awk: some go back to 2009
16:30:50 <kathleen> awk: please close the ones that need to be closed
16:31:03 <kathleen> if you're not sure, send a note to the editors
16:31:18 <David> to ask...What if we have completed it but it has not been addressed
16:31:55 <kathleen> RSSAgent, draft minutes
16:32:23 <Zakim> -Joshue
16:32:40 <kathleen> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:32:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/27-wai-wcag-minutes.html kathleen
16:33:37 <kathleen> awk: any questions?
16:33:57 <kathleen> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:33:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/27-wai-wcag-minutes.html kathleen
16:34:03 <Zakim> -Kathy_Wahlbin
16:34:04 <Zakim> -jon_avila
16:34:04 <Zakim> -Sailesh_Panchang
16:34:06 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
16:34:09 <Zakim> -Marc_Johlic
16:34:10 <Zakim> -Loretta
16:34:11 <Zakim> -James_Nurthen
16:34:14 <Zakim> -AWK
16:35:18 <Zakim> -kathleen
17:05:00 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, Michael_Cooper, in WAI_WCAG()11:00AM
17:05:02 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has ended
17:05:02 <Zakim> Attendees were kathleen, David_MacDonald, AWK, Loretta, Sailesh_Panchang, Kathy_Wahlbin, Joshue, Marc_Johlic, jon_avila, Michael_Cooper, James_Nurthen
17:14:43 <Joshue> Joshue has joined #wai-wcag
18:14:00 <Joshue> Joshue has joined #wai-wcag
19:12:12 <Joshue> Joshue has joined #wai-wcag
19:52:38 <Joshue> Joshue has joined #wai-wcag
19:53:14 <Kathy> Kathy has left #wai-wcag