13:53:26 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y-media
13:53:26 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/05/27-html-a11y-media-irc
13:53:28 RRSAgent, make logs world
13:53:30 Zakim, this will be 2119
13:53:30 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
13:53:31 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
13:53:31 Date: 27 May 2014
13:53:51 trackbot, associate this channel with #html-a11y
13:53:51 Associated this channel with #html-a11y.
13:54:01 agenda?
13:54:01 zakim, agenda?
13:54:02 I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
13:54:02 4. TV & Web: Use Cases and Requirements [from MarkS]
13:54:11 zakim, clear agenda
13:54:11 agenda cleared
13:54:31 -> https://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/WebTV_Use_Cases Original Web & TV Use Cases from Round 1
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13:55:42 s/-> https://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/WebTV_Use_Cases Original Web & TV Use Cases from Round 1//
13:56:22 -> https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Media_APIs/Use_Cases Original Web & TV Use Cases from Round 1
13:57:08 -> https://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/WebTV_Use_Cases Accessibility Use Case Feedback on UCs 1-7 (from MarkS)
13:58:04 -> https://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/User:Jfoliot/UseCases Accessibility Use Case Feedback on UCs 8-12 (from JF)
13:58:42 brb
13:59:04 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Media Sub-Group
13:59:04 Chair: Mark Sadecki
13:59:04 agenda+ Identify Scribe
13:59:04 agenda+ TV & Web: Collaboration on Use Cases and Requirements
13:59:05 agenda+ User Media Requirements Processing Comments (Continued)
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14:00:11 Team_(html-a11y-media)14:00Z has now started
14:00:18 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2014May/0095.html New Use Case from Janina
14:00:18 +Shane_McCarron
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14:00:31 zakim, Shane_McCarron is ShaneM
14:00:31 +ShaneM; got it
14:00:37 +Mark_Sadecki
14:00:45 +JF
14:01:21 +WuWei
14:01:38 +??P16
14:01:41 zakim, ??P16 is me
14:01:41 +ddavis; got it
14:01:44 agenda+ Renaming Sec 4.8 of MAUR (from Janina)
14:01:54 zakim, agenda?
14:01:54 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
14:01:55 1. Identify Scribe [from MarkS]
14:01:55 2. TV & Web: Collaboration on Use Cases and Requirements [from MarkS]
14:01:55 3. User Media Requirements Processing Comments (Continued) [from MarkS]
14:01:55 4. Renaming Sec 4.8 of MAUR (from Janina) [from MarkS]
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14:02:05 zakim, take up item 1
14:02:05 agendum 1. "Identify Scribe" taken up [from MarkS]
14:02:21 scribe: MarkS
14:02:36 zakim, close item 1
14:02:36 agendum 1, Identify Scribe, closed
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14:02:38 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:02:38 2. TV & Web: Collaboration on Use Cases and Requirements [from MarkS]
14:02:45 zakim, call kazuyuki-617
14:02:45 ok, kaz; the call is being made
14:02:46 +Kazuyuki
14:02:57 zakim, code?
14:02:57 the conference code is 26631 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), janina
14:03:01 zakim, take up next item
14:03:01 agendum 2. "TV & Web: Collaboration on Use Cases and Requirements" taken up [from MarkS]
14:03:11 +??P18
14:03:18 zakim, ??P18 is me
14:03:18 +janina; got it
14:04:07 MarkS> -> https://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/WebTV_Use_Cases Original Web & TV Use Cases from Round 1
14:04:37 kaz has joined #html-a11y-media
14:04:40 -> https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Media_APIs/Use_Cases Original Web & TV Use Cases from Round 1
14:05:16 -> https://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/WebTV_Use_Cases Accessibility Use Case Feedback on UCs 1-7 (from MarkS)
14:08:21 scribeL Mark S reviewing feedback
14:08:35 JS: The need to be able to use these interfaces accessibly applies to all these use cases
14:08:35 JS: notes that WCAG and UAAG will likely apply to all of the use cases
14:08:56 scribe: JF
14:09:31 SM: notes sycnronization with alternative content. Second round of use cases coming and a new one is media-stream synchronization
14:09:32 http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/New_Ideas#Media_stream_synchronization
14:09:42 DD: RE: synchronization with other devices, we put media synchronization as a new suggested Use Case for Round 2, so this may be applicable there
14:10:02 Kaz: we can also start by adding these new use cases to the 2nd round of use cases
14:10:22 DD: Maybe you can merge all of these into one use case
14:10:32 scribe: MarkS
14:10:48 Topic: Use Case 2
14:12:12 i/scribe: MarkS/Kaz: yes, but we can merge them later if needed :)/
14:13:06 JF: Could that me more of a User Agent Guideline? Its blurry
14:13:12 JS: Still belongs in the Use Case
14:13:34 q+
14:14:02 Kaz: maybe it would be useful to explain what the "overlay" os
14:14:25 ack ka
14:14:50 DD: the whole idea of having use cases is to extract requirements that we can use to develop specs
14:15:05 q+
14:15:08 ...some of these are already covered in gap analysis, but i think a queue is a good idea
14:15:13 ack ka
14:15:43 Kaz: maybe it would be better for us to talk about how to best add these to Web & TV wiki
14:16:15 ...maybe we can add a link to the first generation Use CAses
14:16:23 ...or to add all of these separately
14:16:33 ...accessible second screen, for instance
14:17:01 MS: So new use cases based on round 1 that focus on accessibility. We can talk about style later
14:17:11 ...then add to the Web & TV wiki
14:17:35 JS: I'm a little worried about adding too many use cases specifically for accessibility. Many of these things benefit everyone
14:17:53 +! to Janina's point
14:17:59 ...the message gets lost if they are treated separately
14:18:09 s/+!/+1
14:18:35 +1
14:18:37 Kaz: my own preference would be to add accessibility extension to the use cases. and then work them into the final report
14:18:42 ...style-wise
14:19:10 JF: we don't want to put accessibility in a separate group. These are universal concerns.
14:19:32 Kaz: i will talk with DD about this
14:19:43 s/i will talk/I was talking/
14:19:59 DD: I agree, and it would be easier to get people to agree on these if they are not in a separate group.
14:20:08 JF: Its usability taken to the extreme
14:23:07 MS: [Gives summary of use cases 4-7]
14:23:12 JS: +1
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14:23:48 q?
14:23:50 q+
14:24:38 Kaz: Just wondering about he MAUR document. maybe it makes sense to add that as well
14:24:42 -> https://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/User:Jfoliot/UseCases Accessibility Use Case Feedback on UCs 8-12 (from JF)
14:26:17 JF: UC 8 and 9, both talk about taking content offline to local storage. Download and go or record for later consumption. Storing for later. In both cases, using the video element, the alternative content is not bound, referenced as external files. In those cases, there needs to be away to include additional assets as well and are properly bound.
14:26:39 ...like when you "Save a web page" which saves the HTML and all its assets with relative links
14:27:11 ...suggested that it mirrors the structure on the server, or compress and it reinterpret the path
14:27:24 Topic: Use case 10
14:28:09 s/away to/a way to/
14:28:18 JF: UUAG and MAUR. These use cases were about the content being delivered. make sure you don't rely on sensory notification, like only one of audio prompt or visual prompt.
14:28:33 ...multi-sensory notification and UUAG and MAUR
14:29:10 ...very important to bind the alternative content when taking offline.
14:29:35 MS: be great to make it globally configurable too
14:29:47 ...always include caption when available.
14:29:53 -ddavis
14:30:22 JF: many still assume that caption are still in band, but many especially in HTML are out of band now
14:30:33 +??P8
14:30:36 zakim, ??P8 is me
14:30:36 +ddavis; got it
14:31:01 kaz: there is a lot of discussion RE: in band and out of band captioning
14:31:12 ...we would need this kind of extension
14:31:48 JF: the technical issue would be how to associate those resources.
14:32:03 kaz: epub format has something like that.
14:32:58 JF: I dropped this into my user directory in the wiki.
14:33:41 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2014May/0095.html
14:33:51 Topic: New Use Cases
14:34:28 JS: It's not always clear in these use cases if the viewing environment was a group or an individual, I think we made to make that distinction.
14:34:42 ...here is an example about a group, in a movie theatre that uses HTML5 media player
14:35:07 ...you don't need to have a disability to enjoy chapter navigation, as can be seen in epub
14:36:04 ...group of students, cramming for an exam. there are videos associated with their class. the structural nav points, can be displayed in a system map. You can tick off the topics that were covered.
14:36:31 ...blind student is reading a braille print-out. the entire group has found the captioning useful for term definition and note taking
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14:36:53 -ddavis
14:37:34 +??P8
14:37:38 zakim, ??P8 is me
14:37:39 +ddavis; got it
14:37:51 ...very useful for students to be able to jump to a particular point in the video.
14:38:16 Q+
14:38:22 q-
14:38:34 q+
14:38:41 ack ka
14:38:50 ack jf
14:39:19 JF: the support file, the transcript, etc becomes the master to the video file. its your table of contents.
14:39:59 ...in discussions around precedence and order, who owns the master timeline. The video asset would always be the master timeline. In this use case the its flipped.
14:42:01 http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/CR-media-frags-20111201/
14:43:04 JF: not an insurmountable problem, unless we point to Media frags as a solution, lets throw up some flags, follow up with possible solutions.
14:43:17 ...Use case, scenario, possible pitfalls
14:43:35 JS: Just came up with this one during the call
14:44:31 ...2nd screen, someone has a device, there could be multiple streams going on the network. there needs to be a way to discern between streams and set preferences for alternative content.
14:45:11 ...the descriptions might take so long to consume, there needs to be a way to pause the primary video. However, that would be a problem in a group scenario. Need to point that out.
14:45:59 ...if you are bringing your own device to the party, lets go back to the Movie theatre scenario, would be great to be able to bring your own device to consume alt content.
14:46:04 ...discovery and selection may need work
14:46:50 JF: I was thinking the same thing. You can imagine the movie theatre, or a family sitting around the TV. One family member may want the captions or the audio description which might distract other viewers.
14:47:03 q?
14:47:06 q+
14:47:21 JS: with the family, you also need to make sure you have only resources fro your primary device.
14:47:23 www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/New_Ideas
14:47:26 q?
14:47:57 s/fro/for/
14:48:08 DD: Anything goes, this is a good thing to add. The only thing is that the chairs of the IG do not want to have things that won't get carried forward. Only use cases where someone is willing to continue with it through requirements and gap analysis.
14:48:37 Q+
14:48:50 Kaz: we will try to talk with other IG participants RE these UCs
14:49:15 ...these are very good use cases for accessible tv. perhaps a student would want to use speech for input.
14:49:45 JS: hopefully Indie UI could address that.
14:50:30 ack JF
14:50:34 ack kaz
14:51:40 JF: we're talking about using these 2nd devices for both input and output. In accessibility, we have lots of ideas, but no engineers to follow through with some of these. How do we bring forward these ideas that go beyond accessibility but not driven by an accessibility use case
14:52:01 ...worth putting them down and framing them in a more generic way?
14:52:11 DD: We are happy to take some of these use cases and be the representative for them.
14:52:28 ...its much more helpful if it would be broadly applicable.
14:52:43 q+
14:52:45 ...if not someone from this group to champion these, then Kaz or I.
14:53:06 ...be great to consolidate these as well. some may be dropped in this iteration of gap analysis if they are too specialized.
14:53:48 Kaz: Daniel and I will talk more about this after the call. We will have our meeting tomorrow and will discuss the 2nd iteration of use cases.
14:54:01 ...i think we should bring all of these to that call, at least some of them.
14:54:14 ...we will think about how to do that.
14:54:42 JS: one thing that has to get captured is the discoverability issue.
14:55:26 DD: that came up in the first round of use cases. that was covered by network discovery API but seems to have fallen out of focus. Will have to bring that up again.
14:56:01 Kaz: Mark Vickers attended meeting in Santa Clara. We will check with them again and talk about these tomorrow
14:56:19 JS: Comcast has now joined PFWG and is working on incorporating aria support in their products.
14:56:25 Kaz: that is great news
14:57:12 JS: I will type up my new use case
14:57:55 DD: We will either keep them in your wiki or copy them over to ours. We won't be able to edit the first round, but we might be able to create a new version of Round 1
14:58:49 -ShaneM
14:59:01 JS: i want to thank Web & TV IG for coming up with the term 2nd screen. We might be able to use that in MAUR
14:59:27 DD: we have also talked about using Multi-Screen
15:00:20 JS: could even be a bluetooth headset
15:00:33 -JF
15:00:38 -Mark_Sadecki
15:00:40 -janina
15:00:41 -Kazuyuki
15:00:42 -ddavis
15:00:48 -WuWei
15:00:51 Team_(html-a11y-media)14:00Z has ended
15:00:51 Attendees were ShaneM, Mark_Sadecki, JF, WuWei, ddavis, Kazuyuki, janina
15:00:52 rrsagent, make minutes
15:00:52 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/27-html-a11y-media-minutes.html MarkS
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