IRC log of eval on 2014-05-15
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 13:48:55 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #eval
- 13:48:55 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/05/15-eval-irc
- 13:48:57 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs world
- 13:48:57 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #eval
- 13:48:59 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be 3825
- 13:48:59 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
- 13:49:00 [trackbot]
- Meeting: WCAG 2.0 Evaluation Methodology Task Force Teleconference
- 13:49:00 [trackbot]
- Date: 15 May 2014
- 13:52:52 [martijnhoutepen]
- martijnhoutepen has joined #eval
- 13:58:04 [ericvelleman]
- ericvelleman has joined #eval
- 13:59:00 [alistair]
- alistair has joined #eval
- 13:59:47 [shadi]
- zakim, call shadi-617+
- 13:59:47 [shadi]
- zakim, call shadi-617
- 13:59:47 [Zakim]
- I am sorry, shadi; I do not know a number for shadi-617+
- 13:59:48 [Zakim]
- ok, shadi; the call is being made
- 13:59:48 [Zakim]
- WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has now started
- 13:59:49 [Zakim]
- +Shadi
- 14:00:38 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 14:00:39 [alistair]
- zakim, ipcaller is alistair
- 14:00:39 [Zakim]
- +alistair; got it
- 14:00:48 [Zakim]
- +Eric_Velleman
- 14:01:07 [Zakim]
- -Shadi
- 14:01:15 [shadi]
- zakim, call shadi-617
- 14:01:15 [Zakim]
- ok, shadi; the call is being made
- 14:01:17 [Zakim]
- +Shadi
- 14:02:06 [Zakim]
- +MartijnHoutepen
- 14:02:54 [Sarah_Swierenga]
- Sarah_Swierenga has joined #eval
- 14:03:00 [Zakim]
- +Sarah_Swierenga
- 14:04:16 [Liz]
- Liz has joined #eval
- 14:04:31 [shadi]
- scribe: shadi
- 14:04:38 [martijnhoutepen]
- Zakim, mute me
- 14:04:38 [Zakim]
- MartijnHoutepen should now be muted
- 14:04:51 [shadi]
- zakim, mute me
- 14:04:51 [Zakim]
- Shadi should now be muted
- 14:04:59 [ericvelleman]
- https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/48225/evaltfq19/results
- 14:05:03 [Zakim]
- +??P16
- 14:05:09 [shadi]
- EV: want to go over steps 1.c and 1.d
- 14:05:16 [ericvelleman]
- https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/48225/evaltfq18/results
- 14:05:21 [shadi]
- zakim, ??p16 is Liz
- 14:05:21 [Zakim]
- +Liz; got it
- 14:07:59 [Zakim]
- +Mary_Jo_Mueller
- 14:08:15 [ericvelleman]
- https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/48225/evaltfq18/results
- 14:08:33 [MaryJo]
- MaryJo has joined #eval
- 14:08:43 [shadi]
- EV: one comment from Tim on 1.c
- 14:09:42 [Sarah_Swierenga]
- Hello everyone, for some reason I cannot access the surveys. I have emailed the W3C to find out why the password recovery indicates that everything is fine, but the password doesn't work. So, I'm going to have to wait until next week to participate again.
- 14:09:46 [shadi]
- EV: need to address perceived repetition
- 14:10:40 [MaryJo]
- +1
- 14:10:42 [ericvelleman]
- keep conformance
- 14:10:44 [shadi]
- ack me
- 14:10:46 [Liz]
- keep comformance
- 14:11:29 [ericvelleman]
- Keep conformance and not use satisfaction
- 14:11:41 [ericvelleman]
- as proposed by Ramon
- 14:13:47 [shadi]
- "There are several ways to determine whether WCAG 2.0 Success Criteria have been met"
- 14:13:55 [alistair]
- +1
- 14:13:58 [ericvelleman]
- +1
- 14:13:59 [martijnhoutepen]
- +1
- 14:14:29 [Liz]
- +1
- 14:17:25 [shadi]
- EV: Tim wants a link to the conformance section to avoid confusion
- 14:17:43 [shadi]
- ...but now that sentence has been rewritten
- 14:18:10 [shadi]
- LF: will talk with him about the changes
- 14:18:26 [shadi]
- ...will also ask him about the platform comment
- 14:18:27 [ericvelleman]
- https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/48225/evaltfq19/results
- 14:19:55 [shadi]
- q+
- 14:20:49 [shadi]
- EV: proposed text by Moe might be a good compromise
- 14:21:02 [shadi]
- ...need to compare with proposal from Mary
- 14:21:13 [shadi]
- s/Mary/Mary Jo
- 14:21:15 [alistair]
- q+
- 14:21:18 [ericvelleman]
- q?
- 14:21:31 [shadi]
- MJM: don't disagree
- 14:21:36 [shadi]
- ack me
- 14:22:44 [shadi]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20140514#expertise
- 14:24:19 [Zakim]
- -Sarah_Swierenga
- 14:25:20 [ericvelleman]
- q?
- 14:25:30 [shadi]
- SAZ: thought we had discussed to roll this section with section "required expertise" rather than to drop it
- 14:25:55 [shadi]
- AG: don't like the aspect of "teams may be necessary"
- 14:26:30 [shadi]
- ...don't want to require teams as many individuals offer this service
- 14:26:47 [shadi]
- ...teams not always better than an individual
- 14:28:01 [shadi]
- ...disagree with "necessary" aspect in the proposed rewrite
- 14:28:03 [Liz_]
- Liz_ has joined #eval
- 14:28:29 [MaryJo]
- q+
- 14:29:03 [MaryJo]
- Though this methodology can be carried out by an individual evaluator with the skills described in the section Required Expertise, using the combined expertise of review teams can also be used to identify accessibility barriers. Using Combined Expertise to Evaluate Web Accessibility provides further guidance on using review teams which is beyond the scope of this document.
- 14:29:59 [shadi]
- ack alistair
- 14:30:02 [shadi]
- +1
- 14:30:07 [shadi]
- ack maryjo
- 14:30:10 [ericvelleman]
- +1
- 14:30:13 [martijnhoutepen]
- +1
- 14:30:25 [Liz]
- +1
- 14:30:26 [MaryJo]
- +1
- 14:30:26 [shadi]
- q+
- 14:30:36 [shadi]
- ack me
- 14:31:20 [ericvelleman]
- Change title to combined expertise
- 14:31:25 [ericvelleman]
- +1
- 14:31:27 [Liz]
- +1
- 14:31:32 [MaryJo]
- +1
- 14:31:39 [martijnhoutepen]
- +1
- 14:31:41 [shadi]
- SAZ: also suggest changing title to "Combined Expertise" or such
- 14:32:29 [ericvelleman]
- https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/48225/evaltfq19/results
- 14:33:07 [shadi]
- q+
- 14:34:56 [shadi]
- SAZ: recall Kathy had action item to propose text for this section
- 14:35:10 [shadi]
- ...maybe this input can be useful for her write-up
- 14:36:30 [shadi]
- ...Tim mentions an issue about the use of the term "version" in a side question that we should not use
- 14:37:46 [shadi]
- EV: versions vs versioning?
- 14:37:50 [shadi]
- "Website in Multiple Versions"
- 14:38:10 [MaryJo]
- q+
- 14:38:51 [shadi]
- ack me
- 14:38:56 [shadi]
- ack meryjo
- 14:39:02 [shadi]
- ack maryjo
- 14:39:24 [alistair]
- q+
- 14:39:36 [shadi]
- MJM: definition talks about mobile and languages etc, not versioning
- 14:39:58 [shadi]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20140514#specialcases
- 14:39:59 [MaryJo]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG-EM/#specialcases
- 14:40:38 [ericvelleman]
- q?
- 14:42:28 [shadi]
- AG: don't think that many people will associate version as in "mobile version" with "file versioning"
- 14:42:58 [Liz]
- q+
- 14:43:04 [alistair]
- q-
- 14:43:14 [shadi]
- ack alistair
- 14:43:24 [shadi]
- ack liz
- 14:43:44 [shadi]
- LF: like the word "instance" over "version"
- 14:46:39 [ericvelleman]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20140130#comment80
- 14:48:28 [shadi]
- EV: concerned that may end up adding many more roles than just designers
- 14:48:40 [shadi]
- ...any simple suggestions to avoid this?
- 14:49:01 [shadi]
- MJM: propose to clarify that "design" is also part of the solution
- 14:49:48 [shadi]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20140514#step3
- 14:51:30 [shadi]
- q+
- 14:52:31 [martijnhoutepen]
- q+
- 14:52:55 [MaryJo]
- q+
- 14:53:19 [martijnhoutepen]
- ack me
- 14:53:53 [shadi]
- SAZ: suggest to add "designers" where we say "developers" like "development process" -> "design and development process"
- 14:54:07 [shadi]
- MH: sounds like a good suggestion
- 14:54:14 [martijnhoutepen]
- zakim, mute me
- 14:54:14 [Zakim]
- MartijnHoutepen should now be muted
- 14:54:36 [shadi]
- ...might also add specific bullet on design
- 14:54:59 [shadi]
- MJM: may also fit under bullet "Adherence to the website development process"
- 14:55:06 [shadi]
- queue=
- 14:56:01 [shadi]
- +1
- 14:56:06 [Liz]
- +1
- 14:56:09 [martijnhoutepen]
- +1
- 14:56:09 [MaryJo]
- +1
- 14:56:10 [ericvelleman]
- +1
- 14:56:30 [shadi]
- EV: cann add throughout where it makes sense
- 14:56:37 [ericvelleman]
- +1 are for development -> design and development
- 14:56:45 [shadi]
- s/cann/can
- 14:57:06 [ericvelleman]
- q?
- 14:57:29 [ericvelleman]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20140130#comment23
- 14:58:45 [alistair]
- q+
- 14:58:50 [shadi]
- EV: do we want to skew sample towards most frequent pages?
- 14:58:53 [MaryJo]
- q+
- 14:59:19 [shadi]
- AG: proposed it a while ago, for example by using search engine results
- 14:59:30 [shadi]
- q+
- 14:59:36 [alistair]
- q-
- 14:59:43 [shadi]
- ack ali
- 14:59:58 [shadi]
- MJM: think it is an excellent idea to tip more towards the more frequently used ones
- 15:00:01 [shadi]
- ack me
- 15:00:04 [shadi]
- ack mary
- 15:01:55 [alistair]
- q+
- 15:02:11 [shadi]
- SAZ: can be part of the parameters in the structured sample
- 15:02:25 [shadi]
- ...but random sample needs to be random
- 15:02:56 [shadi]
- AG: how have we decided what random is?
- 15:03:10 [shadi]
- ...not sure if it is going to happen in practice
- 15:03:41 [shadi]
- EV: let's discuss that more next week
- 15:03:58 [shadi]
- ...there is a new editor draft online already
- 15:04:14 [shadi]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/methodology/
- 15:04:23 [shadi]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20140130#comment23
- 15:04:30 [shadi]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20140130
- 15:04:33 [martijnhoutepen]
- zakim, unmute me
- 15:04:33 [Zakim]
- MartijnHoutepen should no longer be muted
- 15:04:36 [Zakim]
- -alistair
- 15:04:37 [Liz]
- bye
- 15:04:38 [Zakim]
- -MartijnHoutepen
- 15:04:41 [Zakim]
- -Shadi
- 15:04:43 [Zakim]
- -Mary_Jo_Mueller
- 15:04:44 [martijnhoutepen]
- leave #eval
- 15:04:44 [Zakim]
- -Eric_Velleman
- 15:04:46 [ericvelleman]
- ericvelleman has left #eval
- 15:06:29 [Zakim]
- -Liz
- 15:06:30 [Zakim]
- WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has ended
- 15:06:30 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Shadi, alistair, Eric_Velleman, MartijnHoutepen, Sarah_Swierenga, Liz, Mary_Jo_Mueller
- 15:28:47 [shadi]
- trackbot, end meeting
- 15:28:47 [trackbot]
- Zakim, list attendees
- 15:28:47 [Zakim]
- sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
- 15:28:55 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes
- 15:28:55 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/15-eval-minutes.html trackbot
- 15:28:56 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, bye
- 15:28:56 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items