13:48:55 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #eval
13:48:55 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/05/15-eval-irc
13:48:57 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:48:57 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #eval
13:48:59 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 3825
13:48:59 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
13:49:00 <trackbot> Meeting: WCAG 2.0 Evaluation Methodology Task Force Teleconference
13:49:00 <trackbot> Date: 15 May 2014
13:52:52 <martijnhoutepen> martijnhoutepen has joined #eval
13:58:04 <ericvelleman> ericvelleman has joined #eval
13:59:00 <alistair> alistair has joined #eval
13:59:47 <shadi> zakim, call shadi-617+
13:59:47 <shadi> zakim, call shadi-617
13:59:47 <Zakim> I am sorry, shadi; I do not know a number for shadi-617+
13:59:48 <Zakim> ok, shadi; the call is being made
13:59:48 <Zakim> WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has now started
13:59:49 <Zakim> +Shadi
14:00:38 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:00:39 <alistair> zakim, ipcaller is alistair
14:00:39 <Zakim> +alistair; got it
14:00:48 <Zakim> +Eric_Velleman
14:01:07 <Zakim> -Shadi
14:01:15 <shadi> zakim, call shadi-617
14:01:15 <Zakim> ok, shadi; the call is being made
14:01:17 <Zakim> +Shadi
14:02:06 <Zakim> +MartijnHoutepen
14:02:54 <Sarah_Swierenga> Sarah_Swierenga has joined #eval
14:03:00 <Zakim> +Sarah_Swierenga
14:04:16 <Liz> Liz has joined #eval
14:04:31 <shadi> scribe: shadi
14:04:38 <martijnhoutepen> Zakim, mute me
14:04:38 <Zakim> MartijnHoutepen should now be muted
14:04:51 <shadi> zakim, mute me
14:04:51 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
14:04:59 <ericvelleman> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/48225/evaltfq19/results
14:05:03 <Zakim> +??P16
14:05:09 <shadi> EV: want to go over steps 1.c and 1.d
14:05:16 <ericvelleman> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/48225/evaltfq18/results
14:05:21 <shadi> zakim, ??p16 is Liz
14:05:21 <Zakim> +Liz; got it
14:07:59 <Zakim> +Mary_Jo_Mueller
14:08:15 <ericvelleman> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/48225/evaltfq18/results
14:08:33 <MaryJo> MaryJo has joined #eval
14:08:43 <shadi> EV: one comment from Tim on 1.c
14:09:42 <Sarah_Swierenga> Hello everyone, for some reason I cannot access the surveys. I have emailed the W3C to find out why the password recovery indicates that everything is fine, but the password doesn't work. So, I'm going to have to wait until next week to participate again.
14:09:46 <shadi> EV: need to address perceived repetition
14:10:40 <MaryJo> +1
14:10:42 <ericvelleman> keep conformance
14:10:44 <shadi> ack me
14:10:46 <Liz> keep comformance
14:11:29 <ericvelleman> Keep conformance and not use satisfaction
14:11:41 <ericvelleman> as proposed by Ramon
14:13:47 <shadi> "There are several ways to determine whether WCAG 2.0 Success Criteria have been met"
14:13:55 <alistair> +1
14:13:58 <ericvelleman> +1
14:13:59 <martijnhoutepen> +1
14:14:29 <Liz> +1
14:17:25 <shadi> EV: Tim wants a link to the conformance section to avoid confusion
14:17:43 <shadi> ...but now that sentence has been rewritten
14:18:10 <shadi> LF: will talk with him about the changes
14:18:26 <shadi> ...will also ask him about the platform comment
14:18:27 <ericvelleman> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/48225/evaltfq19/results
14:19:55 <shadi> q+
14:20:49 <shadi> EV: proposed text by Moe might be a good compromise
14:21:02 <shadi> ...need to compare with proposal from Mary
14:21:13 <shadi> s/Mary/Mary Jo
14:21:15 <alistair> q+
14:21:18 <ericvelleman> q?
14:21:31 <shadi> MJM: don't disagree
14:21:36 <shadi> ack me
14:22:44 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20140514#expertise
14:24:19 <Zakim> -Sarah_Swierenga
14:25:20 <ericvelleman> q?
14:25:30 <shadi> SAZ: thought we had discussed to roll this section with section "required expertise" rather than to drop it
14:25:55 <shadi> AG: don't like the aspect of "teams may be necessary"
14:26:30 <shadi> ...don't want to require teams as many individuals offer this service
14:26:47 <shadi> ...teams not always better than an individual
14:28:01 <shadi> ...disagree with "necessary" aspect in the proposed rewrite
14:28:03 <Liz_> Liz_ has joined #eval
14:28:29 <MaryJo> q+
14:29:03 <MaryJo> Though this methodology can be carried out by an individual evaluator with the skills described in the section Required Expertise, using the combined expertise of review teams can also be used to identify accessibility barriers. Using Combined Expertise to Evaluate Web Accessibility provides further guidance on using review teams which is beyond the scope of this document.
14:29:59 <shadi> ack alistair
14:30:02 <shadi> +1
14:30:07 <shadi> ack maryjo
14:30:10 <ericvelleman> +1
14:30:13 <martijnhoutepen> +1
14:30:25 <Liz> +1
14:30:26 <MaryJo> +1
14:30:26 <shadi> q+
14:30:36 <shadi> ack me
14:31:20 <ericvelleman> Change title to combined expertise
14:31:25 <ericvelleman> +1
14:31:27 <Liz> +1
14:31:32 <MaryJo> +1
14:31:39 <martijnhoutepen> +1
14:31:41 <shadi> SAZ: also suggest changing title to "Combined Expertise" or such
14:32:29 <ericvelleman> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/48225/evaltfq19/results
14:33:07 <shadi> q+
14:34:56 <shadi> SAZ: recall Kathy had action item to propose text for this section
14:35:10 <shadi> ...maybe this input can be useful for her write-up
14:36:30 <shadi> ...Tim mentions an issue about the use of the term "version" in a side question that we should not use
14:37:46 <shadi> EV: versions vs versioning?
14:37:50 <shadi> "Website in Multiple Versions"
14:38:10 <MaryJo> q+
14:38:51 <shadi> ack me
14:38:56 <shadi> ack meryjo
14:39:02 <shadi> ack maryjo
14:39:24 <alistair> q+
14:39:36 <shadi> MJM: definition talks about mobile and languages etc, not versioning
14:39:58 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20140514#specialcases
14:39:59 <MaryJo> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG-EM/#specialcases
14:40:38 <ericvelleman> q?
14:42:28 <shadi> AG: don't think that many people will associate version as in "mobile version" with "file versioning"
14:42:58 <Liz> q+
14:43:04 <alistair> q-
14:43:14 <shadi> ack alistair
14:43:24 <shadi> ack liz
14:43:44 <shadi> LF: like the word "instance" over "version"
14:46:39 <ericvelleman> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20140130#comment80
14:48:28 <shadi> EV: concerned that may end up adding many more roles than just designers
14:48:40 <shadi> ...any simple suggestions to avoid this?
14:49:01 <shadi> MJM: propose to clarify that "design" is also part of the solution
14:49:48 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20140514#step3
14:51:30 <shadi> q+
14:52:31 <martijnhoutepen> q+
14:52:55 <MaryJo> q+
14:53:19 <martijnhoutepen> ack me
14:53:53 <shadi> SAZ: suggest to add "designers" where we say "developers" like "development process" -> "design and development process"
14:54:07 <shadi> MH: sounds like a good suggestion
14:54:14 <martijnhoutepen> zakim, mute me
14:54:14 <Zakim> MartijnHoutepen should now be muted
14:54:36 <shadi> ...might also add specific bullet on design
14:54:59 <shadi> MJM: may also fit under bullet "Adherence to the website development process"
14:55:06 <shadi> queue=
14:56:01 <shadi> +1
14:56:06 <Liz> +1
14:56:09 <martijnhoutepen> +1
14:56:09 <MaryJo> +1
14:56:10 <ericvelleman> +1
14:56:30 <shadi> EV: cann add throughout where it makes sense
14:56:37 <ericvelleman> +1 are for development -> design and development
14:56:45 <shadi> s/cann/can
14:57:06 <ericvelleman> q?
14:57:29 <ericvelleman> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20140130#comment23
14:58:45 <alistair> q+
14:58:50 <shadi> EV: do we want to skew sample towards most frequent pages?
14:58:53 <MaryJo> q+
14:59:19 <shadi> AG: proposed it a while ago, for example by using search engine results
14:59:30 <shadi> q+
14:59:36 <alistair> q-
14:59:43 <shadi> ack ali
14:59:58 <shadi> MJM: think it is an excellent idea to tip more towards the more frequently used ones
15:00:01 <shadi> ack me
15:00:04 <shadi> ack mary
15:01:55 <alistair> q+
15:02:11 <shadi> SAZ: can be part of the parameters in the structured sample
15:02:25 <shadi> ...but random sample needs to be random
15:02:56 <shadi> AG: how have we decided what random is?
15:03:10 <shadi> ...not sure if it is going to happen in practice
15:03:41 <shadi> EV: let's discuss that more next week
15:03:58 <shadi> ...there is a new editor draft online already
15:04:14 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/methodology/
15:04:23 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20140130#comment23
15:04:30 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20140130
15:04:33 <martijnhoutepen> zakim, unmute me
15:04:33 <Zakim> MartijnHoutepen should no longer be muted
15:04:36 <Zakim> -alistair
15:04:37 <Liz> bye
15:04:38 <Zakim> -MartijnHoutepen
15:04:41 <Zakim> -Shadi
15:04:43 <Zakim> -Mary_Jo_Mueller
15:04:44 <martijnhoutepen> leave #eval
15:04:44 <Zakim> -Eric_Velleman
15:04:46 <ericvelleman> ericvelleman has left #eval
15:06:29 <Zakim> -Liz
15:06:30 <Zakim> WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has ended
15:06:30 <Zakim> Attendees were Shadi, alistair, Eric_Velleman, MartijnHoutepen, Sarah_Swierenga, Liz, Mary_Jo_Mueller
15:28:47 <shadi> trackbot, end meeting
15:28:47 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:28:47 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
15:28:55 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:28:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/15-eval-minutes.html trackbot
15:28:56 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:28:56 <RRSAgent> I see no action items