IRC log of dnt on 2014-05-14
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 15:36:06 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #dnt
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- logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/05/14-dnt-irc
- 15:36:08 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs world
- 15:36:11 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be TRACK
- 15:36:11 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see T&S_Track(dnt)12:00PM scheduled to start in 24 minutes
- 15:36:11 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Tracking Protection Working Group Teleconference
- 15:36:12 [trackbot]
- Date: 14 May 2014
- 15:36:36 [ninja]
- regrets: dsinger, johnsimpson
- 15:47:57 [jeff]
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- 15:52:37 [fielding]
- fielding has joined #dnt
- 15:53:58 [npdoty]
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- 15:55:08 [ninja]
- regrets+ johnsimpson
- 15:55:13 [Chris]
- Chris has joined #dnt
- 15:55:29 [Zakim]
- T&S_Track(dnt)12:00PM has now started
- 15:55:36 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 15:55:40 [walter]
- zakim, ipcaller is me
- 15:55:40 [Zakim]
- +walter; got it
- 15:55:47 [ninja]
- zakim, call ninja-office
- 15:55:47 [Zakim]
- ok, ninja; the call is being made
- 15:55:49 [Zakim]
- +Ninja
- 15:56:03 [Zakim]
- +Chris_IAB
- 15:56:36 [Zakim]
- +Fielding
- 15:57:42 [Alan]
- Alan has joined #dnt
- 15:58:03 [Zakim]
- +Wendy
- 15:58:13 [Zakim]
- +Jeff
- 15:58:15 [Zakim]
- +npdoty
- 15:58:28 [ninja]
- Chris_IAB is really Alan
- 15:58:40 [walter]
- Someone needs to find the mute button
- 15:58:44 [walter]
- or may have found it now
- 15:59:27 [npdoty]
- regrets+ kulick
- 15:59:29 [Zakim]
- + +31.65.275.aaaa
- 15:59:34 [Zakim]
- +Peder_Magee
- 15:59:39 [ninja]
- zakim, Chris_IAB is really Alan
- 15:59:41 [Zakim]
- +Alan; got it
- 15:59:49 [Zakim]
- +Carl_Cargill
- 15:59:51 [Zakim]
- +MECallahan
- 16:00:09 [mecallahan]
- mecallahan has joined #dnT
- 16:00:11 [magee]
- magee has joined #dnt
- 16:00:14 [walter]
- that's NL
- 16:00:25 [Zakim]
- + +1.323.253.aabb
- 16:00:29 [justin]
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- 16:00:33 [ninja]
- zakim, aaaa is robvaneijk
- 16:00:33 [Zakim]
- +robvaneijk; got it
- 16:01:13 [Zakim]
- +Susan_Israel
- 16:01:16 [npdoty]
- Zakim, aabb is Ari
- 16:01:16 [Zakim]
- +Ari; got it
- 16:01:27 [susanisrael]
- susanisrael has joined #dnt
- 16:01:38 [Zakim]
- +Chris_Pedigo
- 16:02:00 [eberkower]
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- 16:02:00 [npdoty]
- regrets+ JackHobaugh
- 16:02:07 [ChrisPedigoOPA]
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- 16:02:22 [Zakim]
- +??P21
- 16:02:30 [moneill2]
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- 16:02:34 [WileyS]
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- 16:02:43 [Zakim]
- +eberkower
- 16:02:45 [Chris]
- Chris Mejia just joined the call
- 16:02:58 [eberkower]
- Zakim, mute me, please
- 16:02:58 [Zakim]
- eberkower should now be muted
- 16:03:04 [Zakim]
- +hefferjr
- 16:03:24 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 16:03:26 [Zakim]
- +[CDT]
- 16:03:32 [justin]
- zakim, cdt has me
- 16:03:32 [Zakim]
- +justin; got it
- 16:03:38 [moneill2]
- zakim, [IPCaller] is me
- 16:03:38 [Zakim]
- +moneill2; got it
- 16:03:38 [justin]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 16:03:39 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see walter, Ninja, Alan, Fielding, Wendy, Jeff, npdoty, robvaneijk, Peder_Magee, Carl_Cargill, MECallahan, Ari, Susan_Israel, Chris_Pedigo, ??P21, eberkower (muted),
- 16:03:39 [Zakim]
- ... hefferjr, moneill2, [CDT]
- 16:03:39 [Zakim]
- [CDT] has justin
- 16:03:59 [npdoty]
- Zakim, please choose a scribe
- 16:03:59 [Zakim]
- Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Ninja
- 16:04:00 [ninja]
- zakim, ??P21 is Chris Mejia
- 16:04:00 [Zakim]
- I don't understand '??P21 is Chris Mejia', ninja
- 16:04:16 [npdoty]
- Zakim, please choose a scribe
- 16:04:16 [Zakim]
- Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Jeff
- 16:04:23 [sidstamm]
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- 16:04:32 [vincent]
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- 16:04:33 [jeff]
- Zakim, is this Jeff chester or jeff jaffe?
- 16:04:33 [Zakim]
- I don't understand your question, jeff.
- 16:04:36 [kj]
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- 16:04:46 [jeff]
- OK, I guess its me.
- 16:04:51 [wseltzer]
- zakim, ??p21 is Chris_Mejia
- 16:04:51 [Zakim]
- +Chris_Mejia; got it
- 16:05:10 [Zakim]
- +WileyS
- 16:05:11 [Alan]
- Alan Turransky
- 16:05:18 [npdoty]
- scribenick: jeff
- 16:05:25 [Alan]
- Hello everyone!
- 16:05:46 [walter]
- Alan: welcome aboard
- 16:05:46 [ninja]
- Hello and welcome Alan
- 16:05:48 [jeff]
- Ninja: Welcome to Alan Turransky from IAB, and Chris Mejia as an Invited Expert.
- 16:05:50 [justin]
- https://www.w3.org/wiki/Privacy/TPWG/Change_Proposal_Disregarding
- 16:05:55 [jeff]
- Justin: Disregard signal
- 16:05:56 [Zakim]
- +vincent
- 16:05:56 [ninja]
- zakim, take up agendum 1
- 16:05:56 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "Disregard signal, ISSUE-207" taken up [from ninja]
- 16:06:03 [Zakim]
- + +aacc
- 16:06:08 [sidstamm]
- Zakim, aacc is Mozilla
- 16:06:09 [Zakim]
- +Mozilla; got it
- 16:06:16 [sidstamm]
- Zakim, Mozilla has me
- 16:06:16 [Zakim]
- +sidstamm; got it
- 16:06:30 [jeff]
- ... one word away from consensus
- 16:06:39 [jeff]
- ... Nick provided Proposal 2 in wiki
- 16:06:46 [jeff]
- ... addresses Roy's concerns
- 16:07:27 [schunter]
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- 16:07:27 [jeff]
- Justin reads -- > https://www.w3.org/wiki/Privacy/TPWG/Change_Proposal_Disregarding#Proposal_2:_Proposed_revision_from_Nick
- 16:08:03 [jeff]
- Justin: Nick's proposal captures Roy and Mike's issue
- 16:08:14 [jeff]
- ... discussion on mailing group
- 16:08:23 [jeff]
- ... use of word "unambiguous"
- 16:08:23 [fielding]
- q+, I still don't think "MUST be clear" is a testable requirement
- 16:08:27 [WileyS]
- Support Nick's proposal - no need for the addition of "unambigious" as suggested by Rob and Mike
- 16:08:30 [jeff]
- ... may be non-normative
- 16:08:34 [justin]
- q?
- 16:08:43 [fielding]
- q+ to say I still don't think "MUST be clear" is a testable requirement
- 16:08:44 [jeff]
- ... concerns about Nick's language? (other than unambiguous)
- 16:08:54 [moneill2]
- yes I am OK with non-normative bit
- 16:08:54 [npdoty]
- ack fielding
- 16:08:54 [Zakim]
- fielding, you wanted to say I still don't think "MUST be clear" is a testable requirement
- 16:09:20 [jeff]
- Roy: We should be clear in a privacy policy. But, I don't think MUST be clear is testable.
- 16:09:23 [walter]
- q+
- 16:09:40 [jeff]
- ... so why would it be a protocol/compliance requirement.
- 16:09:47 [jeff]
- ... use non-normative text
- 16:10:05 [jeff]
- Justin: TPE states must say was signal is disregarded
- 16:10:11 [jeff]
- ... can test if language is there
- 16:10:21 [jeff]
- ... not if it is sufficient
- 16:10:26 [Zakim]
- +Brooks
- 16:10:27 [Zakim]
- +??P35
- 16:10:36 [jeff]
- ... so you are saying existing language + non-normative text
- 16:10:39 [Brooks]
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- 16:10:41 [jeff]
- Roy: Yes.
- 16:11:01 [jeff]
- ... conceptually OK with Nick's points as non-normative
- 16:11:24 [jeff]
- ... Within W3C, "MUSTs" should be testable.
- 16:11:28 [WMichel]
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- 16:11:35 [Zakim]
- +WaltMichel
- 16:11:42 [jeff]
- Justin: How do we convey "ought"?
- 16:11:50 [moneill2]
- +q
- 16:11:53 [schunter]
- Zakim, ??P1 is schunter
- 16:11:53 [schunter]
- Zakim, ??P35 is schunter
- 16:11:54 [Zakim]
- I already had ??P1 as Shawn_Henry, schunter
- 16:11:54 [Zakim]
- +schunter; got it
- 16:12:00 [matt]
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- 16:12:06 [Zakim]
- +MattHayes
- 16:12:21 [jeff]
- Roy: "Ought" means MUST to people, but does not require a test suite
- 16:12:36 [jeff]
- ... different groups handle differently.
- 16:12:40 [jeff]
- Justin: Reasonable.
- 16:12:40 [justin]
- q?
- 16:12:44 [justin]
- ack walter
- 16:12:54 [susanisrael]
- justin, instead of "ought" could it say that being clear will be "helpful"?
- 16:12:58 [jeff]
- Walter: Technical validations don't apply to compliance
- 16:13:10 [jeff]
- ... regulator will ask how it applies in court of law
- 16:13:21 [jeff]
- ... compliance is non technical
- 16:13:34 [jeff]
- ... "Ought" in non-normative language is normative
- 16:13:47 [justin]
- ack mo
- 16:13:56 [jeff]
- Mike: Unambiguous is important
- 16:14:03 [jeff]
- ... it is open-ended for server
- 16:14:09 [jeff]
- ... no list of tokens
- 16:14:25 [walter]
- jeff: Actually, in many jurisdictions a regulator will be willing to give an opinion before going to court
- 16:14:27 [jeff]
- ... hence unambiguous clarifies need specific reason
- 16:14:32 [fielding]
- I don't think "testable in a court of law" is a level we should be aiming for; courts can test anything, whether it is attached to a MUST or ought.
- 16:14:33 [WileyS]
- Please explain the difference between clear and unambigious in that context?
- 16:14:38 [WileyS]
- +1
- 16:14:54 [npdoty]
- was there an example that would be clear but also ambiguous?
- 16:14:59 [WileyS]
- vauge does not equal clear
- 16:15:01 [walter]
- fielding: it goes with the territory of compliance specs
- 16:15:27 [walter]
- jeff: "in many jurisdictions a regulator will be willing to give an opinion on whether something is ambiguous or not"
- 16:15:36 [jeff]
- Mike: Something can be clear in English, but vague in terms of true meaning
- 16:15:40 [fielding]
- s/vauge/vague/
- 16:15:48 [vincent]
- Example of ambiguous: 'You're request has been ignored because your user agent is compliant or beacause we believe we have an OOBC"
- 16:16:01 [vincent]
- not compliant
- 16:16:23 [jeff]
- Justin: Are you open to an amendment: give reasons without requiring clarity
- 16:16:29 [jeff]
- ... put in non-normative
- 16:16:37 [justin]
- q?
- 16:16:44 [jeff]
- ... or do you agree you need normative language
- 16:16:49 [colsen]
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- 16:16:50 [jeff]
- s/Are/Nick, are/
- 16:16:52 [fielding]
- vincent, that example does not apply; "C" is for OOBC.
- 16:16:56 [jeff]
- Nick: I'm flexible.
- 16:17:12 [adrianba]
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- 16:17:22 [jeff]
- Justin: Examples where there are requirements on clear statements (other specs)?
- 16:17:26 [Zakim]
- +[FTC]
- 16:17:31 [jeff]
- Nick: Geolocation. Collecting location data.
- 16:17:41 [vincent]
- fielding, I agree but I'm thinking of a case where there could be two reasons for rejecting the signal one of them being lack of compliance
- 16:17:46 [jeff]
- Justin: Roy do you feel strongly? Everyone else is mostly on board.
- 16:17:56 [jeff]
- ... will this roil the standards community?
- 16:18:02 [Zakim]
- +[Microsoft]
- 16:18:03 [npdoty]
- from Geo: http://www.w3.org/TR/geolocation-API/#privacy_for_recipients refers to "must clearly and conspicuously disclose"
- 16:18:06 [adrianba]
- zakim, [Microsoft] is me
- 16:18:06 [Zakim]
- +adrianba; got it
- 16:18:09 [jeff]
- Roy: I can't implement it.
- 16:18:19 [WileyS]
- After hearing Roy's arguments, I'm now more on the side of not having "MUST be clear" in normative text. Non-normative feels this is a better path here.
- 16:18:24 [jeff]
- ... Is it necessary that compliance be implementable?
- 16:18:27 [jeff]
- ... I don't know
- 16:18:33 [npdoty]
- the problem isn't unimplementability, the concern was about testing it
- 16:18:41 [jeff]
- ... geolocation not good example... didn't go through CR process
- 16:18:48 [jeff]
- ... I'm not a process maven
- 16:18:50 [walter]
- fielding: the problem with non-normative is that it makes it non-binding
- 16:18:57 [jeff]
- ... Maybe W3C Team can make a recommendation
- 16:18:57 [npdoty]
- (the documented I cited was a Recommendation, FWIW; even though it's not my favorite section)
- 16:19:03 [jeff]
- Justin: We are very close.
- 16:19:03 [walter]
- fielding: and a compliance spec that isn't binding is not a compliance spec
- 16:19:26 [jeff]
- ... but how does document convey the meaning.
- 16:19:31 [npdoty]
- q+
- 16:19:33 [jeff]
- ... I'll take it offline with staff
- 16:19:42 [justin]
- q?
- 16:19:43 [jeff]
- ... Shane says Roy convinced him
- 16:20:08 [jeff]
- Nick: We can decide on text and ask for comments about QA process
- 16:20:33 [jeff]
- Justin: still some dispute. Walter, Rob, and Mike want normative
- 16:20:35 [fielding]
- walter, the reason it has to be non-binding is because clarity is in the eye of the beholder. What is clear to me is not clear at all to others. I have no ability to implement that requirement, and I would love to be clear ALL the time.
- 16:20:55 [jeff]
- Carl: Let's do what Nick said. W3C staff can comment on the QA issue.
- 16:21:38 [walter]
- fielding: ultimately we're crafting a contract here and that is never done under the same constraints as engineering a protocol specificiation
- 16:21:41 [fielding]
- Carl's suggestion is fine with me.
- 16:21:42 [walter]
- eh, specification
- 16:21:50 [ChrisPedigoOPA]
- q+
- 16:21:53 [npdoty]
- q-
- 16:22:08 [justin]
- ack chris
- 16:22:09 [jeff]
- Justin: OK. Notes that Roy is OK.
- 16:22:10 [walter]
- fielding: and as much I'm willing to yield to your opinions on the TPE, as little I'm willing to yield to them on this
- 16:22:17 [fielding]
- s/specificiation/specification/
- 16:22:28 [jeff]
- Chris: Unambiguous is piling on top. Unnecessary.
- 16:22:35 [jeff]
- ... also Roy's concerns.
- 16:22:41 [Zakim]
- -robvaneijk
- 16:22:46 [jeff]
- ... how do we define unambiguous?
- 16:23:03 [Zakim]
- +robvaneijk
- 16:23:03 [jeff]
- ... frivolous words will make companies less likely to implement
- 16:23:18 [Brooks_]
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- 16:23:25 [jeff]
- Justin: It is not non-implementable; just not testable
- 16:23:30 [jeff]
- ... editorial decision.
- 16:23:34 [jeff]
- ... no CfO
- 16:23:43 [jeff]
- ... let's do what Carl proposed
- 16:23:48 [justin]
- q?
- 16:23:56 [walter]
- I don't think it is an editorial decision
- 16:24:03 [jeff]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:24:03 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/14-dnt-minutes.html jeff
- 16:24:24 [jeff]
- Topic: UA compliance
- 16:24:24 [ninja]
- zakim, take up agendum 2
- 16:24:24 [Zakim]
- agendum 2. "User agent compliance, ISSUE-205" taken up [from ninja]
- 16:24:31 [justin]
- https://www.w3.org/wiki/Privacy/TPWG/Change_Proposal_User_Agent_Compliance
- 16:24:35 [jeff]
- Justin: Not a lot of discussion yet.
- 16:24:47 [jeff]
- ... two ways to go (unless someone has a third)
- 16:24:53 [npdoty]
- action: doty to add updated 207/disregard text, with QA review to follo
- 16:24:53 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-448 - Add updated 207/disregard text, with qa review to follo [on Nick Doty - due 2014-05-21].
- 16:24:56 [jeff]
- ... Peter + W3C staff have language
- 16:25:06 [jeff]
- ... somewhat descriptive (what needs to be presented)
- 16:25:21 [jeff]
- ... less prescriptive
- 16:25:29 [adrianba]
- adrianba has joined #dnt
- 16:25:33 [jeff]
- ... Option 2: Not have anything in TCS about UA compliance
- 16:25:41 [jeff]
- ... done in TPE (section 3)
- 16:26:00 [jeff]
- ... remove section
- 16:26:13 [jeff]
- ... haven't heard from Alan Chappel
- 16:26:31 [jeff]
- ... Jack has proposed language
- 16:26:48 [walter]
- q+
- 16:26:51 [jeff]
- ... TCS relies on signals sent by UA in TPE
- 16:26:53 [Zakim]
- -Susan_Israel
- 16:26:57 [justin]
- ack walter
- 16:27:21 [jeff]
- Walter: UA tracking another party should not affect a website tracking a user
- 16:27:47 [jeff]
- Justin: Alan's proposal would not affect 3rd party website
- 16:28:01 [jeff]
- ... would just say that have cloud based browser; also shouldn't track
- 16:28:14 [jeff]
- Walter: I agree that cloud browser shouldn't do that.
- 16:28:43 [jeff]
- ... but if cloud browser goes to Amazon it should not affect tracking
- 16:28:48 [jeff]
- Justin: Not the intent
- 16:28:53 [jeff]
- Walter: That's how I read it.
- 16:29:17 [justin]
- q?
- 16:29:24 [jeff]
- Justin: Alan will accept a friendly amendment to make that clear
- 16:29:43 [jeff]
- ... any other comments?
- 16:29:48 [jeff]
- ... contentious in the past
- 16:29:49 [npdoty]
- (I think there might have been some confusion about the original proposal; as UAs aren't generally recipients of the DNT signal anyway)
- 16:29:53 [jeff]
- ... maybe we are exhausted
- 16:30:02 [jeff]
- ... anyone support current language in draft?
- 16:30:03 [justin]
- q?
- 16:30:04 [npdoty]
- +1 to that
- 16:30:08 [ninja]
- I would rather have no text
- 16:30:08 [walter]
- I could live with that
- 16:30:10 [moneill2]
- +1
- 16:30:15 [walter]
- but will happily provide a friendly amendment
- 16:30:21 [jeff]
- ... I will take to mailing list.
- 16:30:22 [Brooks_]
- q+
- 16:30:26 [npdoty]
- great
- 16:30:28 [justin]
- ack brooks
- 16:30:50 [jeff]
- Brooks: What are the implications of being testable?
- 16:30:59 [jeff]
- ... why not the same as in TPE?
- 16:31:15 [jeff]
- ... if not testable (must do user's concern) how is it valid?
- 16:31:23 [npdoty]
- is this related to the current issue? or just a question of interest?
- 16:31:31 [jeff]
- Justin: Good question. Roy?
- 16:31:42 [jeff]
- s/concern/preference/
- 16:32:08 [justin]
- q?
- 16:32:09 [jeff]
- Roy: It is testable on the UA
- 16:32:15 [jeff]
- ... that's all that matters
- 16:32:18 [npdoty]
- Zakim, who is making noise?
- 16:32:24 [walter]
- someone calling from Belgium
- 16:32:26 [Zakim]
- -MECallahan
- 16:32:29 [Zakim]
- -robvaneijk
- 16:32:31 [jeff]
- [phone operator in some language I don't understand]
- 16:32:34 [Zakim]
- npdoty, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Fielding (33%), [CDT] (13%)
- 16:32:37 [walter]
- it was Flemish first
- 16:33:19 [jeff]
- ... it is testable, how the user agent sets the signal
- 16:33:44 [jeff]
- Brooks: But that is not related to the actual user preference that we must respond to.
- 16:34:06 [jeff]
- Roy: That is a theoretical, conceptual problem
- 16:34:19 [jeff]
- ... I'm talking about testability at the user
- 16:34:25 [jeff]
- ... 100% testable
- 16:34:31 [npdoty]
- (as a philosophy grad, I love getting into epistemology)
- 16:34:37 [walter]
- npdoty: heh
- 16:34:37 [jeff]
- Brooks: The requirement is that it reflect preference at receiving end
- 16:34:46 [jeff]
- ... must be testable and is not
- 16:34:47 [walter]
- npdoty: let's do a Plato's cave here
- 16:34:59 [jeff]
- ... says "signal sent"
- 16:35:21 [jeff]
- Roy: It should say "sender"; but "sent" is sufficient.
- 16:35:28 [justin]
- q?
- 16:35:28 [jeff]
- Justin: Section 4 (TPE) is on the UA
- 16:35:50 [jeff]
- ... could be a Last Call objection or a W3C folks issue
- 16:36:02 [fielding]
- it is actually on the UA and anything acting as the UA (privacy proxies, for example)
- 16:36:19 [jeff]
- Justin: Two more issues
- 16:36:23 [jeff]
- Topic: Geolocation
- 16:36:25 [justin]
- https://www.w3.org/wiki/Privacy/TPWG/Change_Proposal_Geolocation
- 16:36:40 [ninja]
- zakim, take up agendum 3
- 16:36:40 [Zakim]
- agendum 3. "Geolocation, ISSUE-202" taken up [from ninja]
- 16:36:50 [jeff]
- ... noone favored keeping Geolocation in there
- 16:37:04 [jeff]
- ... Mike objected
- 16:37:10 [npdoty]
- on UA section, justin will follow up on the mailing list regarding possibly closing this issue by removing text / referring to TPE
- 16:37:18 [Zakim]
- -schunter
- 16:37:23 [jeff]
- ... because geolocation over time can be identifying
- 16:37:30 [jeff]
- ... Singer suggested non-normative text
- 16:37:36 [fielding]
- is that not already reflected in the definition of tracking?
- 16:37:47 [jeff]
- ... Mike is that OK with you?
- 16:37:50 [jeff]
- Mike: Yes.
- 16:37:54 [jeff]
- scribenick: Ninja
- 16:37:55 [walter]
- Even postal code is often too fine-grained
- 16:38:23 [fielding]
- q+
- 16:38:24 [walter]
- I've seen a PhD thesis that claimed that it was identifying individuals in over 60% of the cases
- 16:38:33 [ninja]
- Mike: Geolocation is used to identify devices and therefore individuals. We should have something somewhere.
- 16:38:47 [fielding]
- maybe not … when recorded by a single context
- 16:38:52 [justin]
- ack field
- 16:39:19 [ninja]
- justin: I agree. But it is in my view not different from other identifying tracking data. Maybe could be added to definition of tracking?
- 16:39:19 [npdoty]
- should I remove the requirement section and add non-normative text to Deidentified section?
- 16:40:07 [ninja]
- fielding: Pure geolocation data would not be considered tracking data under our definition.
- 16:40:11 [justin]
- q?
- 16:40:28 [ninja]
- justin: Issue is that over time geolocation data could become identifying.
- 16:40:43 [ninja]
- ... I will follow up with an email to the mailing list.
- 16:40:44 [justin]
- http://www.w3.org/wiki/Privacy/TPWG/Change_Proposal_Service_Provider
- 16:40:48 [npdoty]
- action: doty to remove geolocation req; add non-normative note to de-identified or tracking
- 16:40:48 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-449 - Remove geolocation req; add non-normative note to de-identified or tracking [on Nick Doty - due 2014-05-21].
- 16:40:54 [ninja]
- zakim, take up agendum 4
- 16:40:54 [Zakim]
- agendum 4. "Service Providers, ISSUE-206" taken up [from ninja]
- 16:40:58 [fielding]
- … unless it is collected under multiple contexts, in which case it might be identifying user activity across multiple contexts and therefore tracking
- 16:41:22 [Zakim]
- +??P2
- 16:41:27 [ninja]
- justin: reading out the wiki text proposal from Roy and the existing TCS text
- 16:41:50 [fielding]
- I am okay with service provider
- 16:42:24 [ninja]
- fielding: Proposed only very small changes.
- 16:42:49 [ninja]
- ... Minor tweaks to the bullet list. And first paragraph is more precise in our proposal.
- 16:43:24 [schunter]
- Zakim, ??P2 is schunter
- 16:43:24 [Zakim]
- +schunter; got it
- 16:43:41 [ninja]
- ... Hope that our proposal is just as legally enforceable as the earlier TCS language.
- 16:44:36 [ninja]
- justin: Another proposal from Dan Auerbach *reads out*
- 16:45:08 [walter]
- q+
- 16:45:17 [justin]
- ack walter
- 16:45:27 [Zakim]
- +Susan_Israel
- 16:45:44 [ninja]
- ... Do some participants want to support this proposal? Or take up parts from it?
- 16:46:08 [ninja]
- walter: How does this interact with the same party flag?
- 16:46:15 [npdoty]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/drafts/tracking-dnt.html#rep.same-party
- 16:46:37 [npdoty]
- service providers might also use the "controller" property to indicate which first party
- 16:46:49 [ninja]
- fielding: You would not get this information from the service provider but from the first party via the same party resource.
- 16:46:57 [justin]
- q?
- 16:47:10 [ninja]
- walter: Not really answers my question. Will follow up with an email.
- 16:47:33 [fielding]
- also noted that the change in bullet (4) of our proposal is to allow contracts that are already consistent with the spec but do not use the exact same language
- 16:47:39 [npdoty]
- (wants to make sure I'm not missing an action item or something)
- 16:48:12 [ninja]
- justin: On Service Providers, I would like to ask folks to look at the text proposals from Roy and Dan and further discuss the issue.
- 16:48:28 [fielding]
- s/get this information/get the same-party array/
- 16:48:40 [ninja]
- ... Today was to surface the issue and discussion. Let us know what you think about this issue.
- 16:48:41 [Zakim]
- -Peder_Magee
- 16:48:47 [Zakim]
- -[CDT]
- 16:48:48 [Zakim]
- -walter
- 16:48:48 [Zakim]
- -Mozilla
- 16:48:48 [Zakim]
- -Susan_Israel
- 16:48:50 [Zakim]
- -Alan
- 16:48:50 [Zakim]
- -adrianba
- 16:48:50 [Zakim]
- -vincent
- 16:48:51 [Zakim]
- -WaltMichel
- 16:48:51 [Zakim]
- -Chris_Pedigo
- 16:48:52 [Zakim]
- -[FTC]
- 16:48:52 [Zakim]
- -Chris_Mejia
- 16:48:53 [Zakim]
- -npdoty
- 16:48:53 [Zakim]
- +robvaneijk
- 16:48:53 [Zakim]
- -moneill2
- 16:48:53 [ninja]
- ... Thank you for today.
- 16:48:55 [Zakim]
- -Brooks
- 16:48:56 [Zakim]
- -Jeff
- 16:48:57 [Zakim]
- -Wendy
- 16:48:58 [ninja]
- Adjourned
- 16:48:59 [Zakim]
- -eberkower
- 16:49:00 [Zakim]
- -Fielding
- 16:49:08 [Zakim]
- -Ninja
- 16:49:09 [Zakim]
- -Carl_Cargill
- 16:49:19 [Zakim]
- -WileyS
- 16:49:20 [npdoty]
- Zakim, list attendees
- 16:49:20 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been walter, Ninja, Fielding, Wendy, Jeff, npdoty, +31.65.275.aaaa, Peder_Magee, Alan, Carl_Cargill, MECallahan, +1.323.253.aabb, robvaneijk,
- 16:49:23 [Zakim]
- ... Susan_Israel, Ari, Chris_Pedigo, eberkower, hefferjr, justin, moneill2, Chris_Mejia, WileyS, vincent, +aacc, sidstamm, Brooks, WaltMichel, schunter, MattHayes, [FTC], adrianba
- 16:49:24 [Zakim]
- -hefferjr
- 16:49:26 [Zakim]
- -schunter
- 16:49:27 [Zakim]
- -Ari
- 16:49:29 [npdoty]
- rrsagent, please draft the minutes
- 16:49:29 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/14-dnt-minutes.html npdoty
- 16:49:32 [Zakim]
- -robvaneijk
- 16:49:35 [Zakim]
- -MattHayes
- 16:49:36 [Zakim]
- T&S_Track(dnt)12:00PM has ended
- 16:49:36 [Zakim]
- Attendees were walter, Ninja, Fielding, Wendy, Jeff, npdoty, +31.65.275.aaaa, Peder_Magee, Alan, Carl_Cargill, MECallahan, +1.323.253.aabb, robvaneijk, Susan_Israel, Ari,
- 16:49:36 [Zakim]
- ... Chris_Pedigo, eberkower, hefferjr, justin, moneill2, Chris_Mejia, WileyS, vincent, +aacc, sidstamm, Brooks, WaltMichel, schunter, MattHayes, [FTC], adrianba
- 16:49:52 [ninja]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 16:49:52 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/14-dnt-minutes.html ninja
- 16:50:23 [Craig]
- Craig has joined #DNT
- 16:51:21 [ninja]
- chair: justin
- 16:51:31 [ninja]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 16:51:31 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/14-dnt-minutes.html ninja