IRC log of wai-wcag on 2014-05-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:48:20 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
14:48:20 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/05/13-wai-wcag-irc
14:48:22 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs public
14:48:22 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #wai-wcag
14:48:24 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
14:48:24 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
14:48:25 [trackbot]: Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
14:48:25 [trackbot]: Date: 13 May 2014
14:48:27 [AWK]: Chair: AWK
14:49:16 [AWK]: Regrets+ Kathy
14:49:22 [AWK]: Zakim, Agenda?
14:49:22 [Zakim]: I see nothing on the agenda
14:49:50 [AWK]: Agenda+ Review of https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comments_Needing_Responses (4 new)
14:50:11 [AWK]: Agenda+ Discussion on http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_a_script_load_toggle_for_feature_detection_libraries_to_provide_a_conforming_alternate_version - Discussion on approach
14:50:33 [AWK]: Agenda+ Misc Survey 6th May 2014 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20140506/results (only LC-2854)
14:50:51 [AWK]: Agenda+ Survey. Techniques and Institutional Memory. https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/13May2014/
14:51:04 [AWK]: Agenda+ Update on Cognitive Accessibility Task Force from Lisa Seeman.
14:51:12 [AWK]: Agenda+ Discussion on comment processing - improving how we deal with questions to the working group, from the working group.
14:55:02 [David]: David has joined #wai-wcag
14:55:37 [AWK]: Zakim, agenda?
14:55:37 [Zakim]: I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
14:55:38 [Zakim]: 1. Review of https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comments_Needing_Responses (4 new) [from AWK]
14:55:38 [Zakim]: 2. Discussion on http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_a_script_load_toggle_for_feature_detection_libraries_to_provide_a_conforming_alternate_version - Discussion on approach [from
14:55:38 [Zakim]: ... AWK]
14:55:38 [Zakim]: 3. Misc Survey 6th May 2014 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20140506/results (only LC-2854) [from AWK]
14:55:40 [Zakim]: 4. Survey. Techniques and Institutional Memory. https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/13May2014/ [from AWK]
14:55:40 [Zakim]: 5. Update on Cognitive Accessibility Task Force from Lisa Seeman. [from AWK]
14:55:40 [Zakim]: 6. Discussion on comment processing - improving how we deal with questions to the working group, from the working group. [from AWK]
14:56:36 [AWK]: Zakim, agenda order is 5, 1, 6, 2, 3, 4
14:56:36 [Zakim]: ok, AWK
14:56:38 [AWK]: Zakim, agenda?
14:56:39 [Zakim]: I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
14:56:39 [Zakim]: 5. Update on Cognitive Accessibility Task Force from Lisa Seeman. [from AWK]
14:56:39 [Zakim]: 1. Review of https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comments_Needing_Responses (4 new) [from AWK]
14:56:40 [Zakim]: 6. Discussion on comment processing - improving how we deal with questions to the working group, from the working group. [from AWK]
14:56:40 [Zakim]: 2. Discussion on http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_a_script_load_toggle_for_feature_detection_libraries_to_provide_a_conforming_alternate_version - Discussion on approach [from
14:56:40 [Zakim]: ... AWK]
14:56:40 [Zakim]: 3. Misc Survey 6th May 2014 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20140506/results (only LC-2854) [from AWK]
14:56:40 [Zakim]: 4. Survey. Techniques and Institutional Memory. https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/13May2014/ [from AWK]
14:57:26 [Zakim]: WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has now started
14:57:32 [Zakim]: +David_MacDonald
14:57:38 [Zakim]: +AWK
14:58:19 [Wilco]: Wilco has joined #wai-wcag
14:58:32 [Lisa_Seeman]: Lisa_Seeman has joined #wai-wcag
14:58:38 [kathleen]: kathleen has joined #wai-wcag
14:59:06 [Zakim]: +??P18
14:59:25 [Zakim]: +Bruce_Bailey
14:59:49 [bbailey]: zakim, i am bruce_
14:59:49 [Zakim]: ok, bbailey, I now associate you with Bruce_Bailey
15:00:12 [Zakim]: + +31.30.239.aaaa
15:00:21 [Wilco]: zakim, i am +31
15:00:21 [Zakim]: +Wilco; got it
15:00:25 [Zakim]: +kathleen
15:00:41 [Zakim]: + +1.571.389.aabb
15:00:44 [Loretta]: Loretta has joined #wai-wcag
15:00:51 [jon_avila]: zakim, I am aabb
15:00:51 [Zakim]: +jon_avila; got it
15:01:05 [AWK]: Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:01:05 [Zakim]: On the phone I see David_MacDonald, AWK, ??P18, Bruce_Bailey, Wilco, kathleen, jon_avila
15:01:48 [AWK]: Zakim, P18 is Lisa Seeman
15:01:49 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'P18 is Lisa Seeman', AWK
15:01:55 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
15:01:58 [AWK]: Zakim,18 is Lisa Seeman
15:01:58 [Zakim]: I don't understand '18 is Lisa Seeman', AWK
15:02:08 [AWK]: Zakim, ??P18 is Lisa Seeman
15:02:09 [Zakim]: I don't understand '??P18 is Lisa Seeman', AWK
15:02:11 [jon_avila]: zakim, p18 is lisa_seeman
15:02:12 [Zakim]: sorry, jon_avila, I do not recognize a party named 'p18'
15:02:16 [Loretta]: zakim, IPcaller is Loretta
15:02:16 [Zakim]: +Loretta; got it
15:03:01 [jon_avila]: zakim, P18 is lisa_seeman
15:03:02 [Zakim]: sorry, jon_avila, I do not recognize a party named 'P18'
15:03:07 [Lisa_Seeman]: zakim, P18 is me
15:03:07 [Zakim]: sorry, Lisa_Seeman, I do not recognize a party named 'P18'
15:03:22 [Lisa_Seeman]: zakim, ??P18 is me
15:03:23 [David]: zakim, ??p18 is lisa_seeman
15:03:23 [AWK]: Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:03:25 [Zakim]: +Lisa_Seeman; got it
15:03:26 [Zakim]: I already had ??P18 as Lisa_Seeman, David
15:03:26 [Zakim]: On the phone I see David_MacDonald, AWK, Lisa_Seeman, Bruce_Bailey, Wilco, kathleen, jon_avila, Loretta
15:03:37 [Loretta]: brb
15:04:10 [AWK]: Scribe list: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List
15:04:13 [Zakim]: +??P7
15:04:28 [AWK]: Scribe: Bruce
15:05:05 [AWK]: Zakim, take up item 1
15:05:05 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "Review of https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comments_Needing_Responses (4 new)" taken up [from AWK]
15:05:20 [AWK]: Zakim, take up 1st item?
15:05:20 [Zakim]: I don't understand your question, AWK.
15:05:32 [AWK]: Zakim, take up item 5
15:05:32 [Zakim]: agendum 5. "Update on Cognitive Accessibility Task Force from Lisa Seeman." taken up [from AWK]
15:05:39 [AWK]: Zakim, take up item 5
15:05:39 [Zakim]: agendum 5. "Update on Cognitive Accessibility Task Force from Lisa Seeman." taken up [from AWK]
15:06:16 [bbailey]: Lisa address group for update.
15:06:17 [Joshue]: Joshue has joined #wai-wcag
15:06:27 [bbailey]: Mix of folks from CSUN face-to-face
15:06:32 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
15:06:39 [Joshue]: zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue
15:06:39 [Zakim]: +Joshue; got it
15:06:45 [Joshue]: zakim, mute me
15:06:45 [Zakim]: Joshue should now be muted
15:06:56 [bbailey]: Something could go to ARIA, to CAPTCH paper, WCAG WG
15:07:02 [Joshue]: rrsagent, draft minutes
15:07:02 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/13-wai-wcag-minutes.html Joshue
15:07:27 [bbailey]: Mandated for work on gap analysis and word map and technques
15:07:55 [MichaelC]: agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2014AprJun/0089.html
15:08:02 [bbailey]: Gap analysis first and important focus since eight different disability groups have been identified.
15:08:24 [bbailey]: Not just AT compatibility, but feature needs
15:08:45 [bbailey]: IPII has some similar work
15:08:54 [Lisa_Seeman]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Main_Page
15:09:24 [bbailey]: Work is in public, actively trying to avoid copy right issues
15:09:27 [Lisa_Seeman]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Gap_Analysis
15:09:50 [bbailey]: As with other wiki, work in progress, not authoritative necessarily
15:10:11 [Lisa_Seeman]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Section_3
15:10:21 [Joshue]: s/IPII/GPII
15:10:25 [Lisa_Seeman]: good practices and avoid bad practices
15:10:39 [Lisa_Seeman]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Good_and_bad_practices
15:10:44 [bbailey]: Staffing working to collect ideas that can help, good practices and avoid bad practices
15:11:42 [bbailey]: includes inclusive design practices, can be outside WCAG techniques per se
15:12:00 [Joshue]: +q to say that the more we can identify commonalities the better
15:12:21 [bbailey]: cognitive load is a good example of common issue that people complain about
15:12:52 [bbailey]: helps address different needs and different ATs
15:13:22 [bbailey]: TextHelp and Arabic language support are also current examples
15:13:33 [David]: q+ to ask for a short list of issues that people with cognitive disabilities complain about
15:13:52 [bbailey]: CAPTCHA coming up as an issue again, plan to make suggestions to PF on that
15:14:14 [Joshue]: -q
15:14:27 [bbailey]: Symbol space is also an area that needs more investigation, as symbols may be better for some people than languages
15:14:43 [bbailey]: Some symbol sets have copyright issues
15:15:18 [bbailey]: Copyrighted symbol set may be very much like native language for some people, but can't be shared across tools.
15:15:24 [AWK]: ack d
15:15:24 [Zakim]: David, you wanted to ask for a short list of issues that people with cognitive disabilities complain about
15:16:14 [bbailey]: Lisa: very early for generatizations
15:16:22 [Joshue]: +q
15:16:40 [bbailey]: short-term dependance on working memory issue for many different types of cognitive issues
15:16:57 [bbailey]: Want to make interface to require as little learning as possible.
15:17:37 [jon_avila]: Flat design is bad for people with low vision too IMO.
15:17:38 [bbailey]: The “flat design” paradigm currently popular actually increases cognitive load.
15:17:50 [AWK]: ack j
15:17:50 [Joshue]: ack me
15:18:12 [bbailey]: It is better to have borders distinction between buttons for example.
15:18:28 [Joshue]: zakim, mute me
15:18:28 [Zakim]: Joshue should now be muted
15:18:43 [bbailey]: Joshue thanks for feedback, and we are continuously looking for more overlap and suggestions.
15:19:08 [bbailey]: AWK and Lisa invite participation with her task force.
15:19:45 [bbailey]: WCAG members are already vetted, so volunteers needed!
15:20:12 [bbailey]: Time-out issues also something that comes up frequently as barrier, easy to lose place and orientation.
15:20:29 [bbailey]: Timeout likely to require re-checking.
15:20:36 [AWK]: Zakim, close this item
15:20:36 [Zakim]: agendum 5 closed
15:20:37 [Zakim]: I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:20:37 [Zakim]: 1. Review of https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comments_Needing_Responses (4 new) [from AWK]
15:20:46 [bbailey]: (This relates back to David's earlier question.)
15:21:25 [bbailey]: Reminder to check page, if your name is there, this is reminder.
15:21:44 [bbailey]: Also need to add new items.
15:21:57 [bbailey]: Also need volunteers to add your name.
15:22:19 [Zakim]: +James_Nurthen
15:22:22 [jamesn]: jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
15:22:35 [AWK]: Zakim, close this item
15:22:35 [Zakim]: I do not know what agendum had been taken up, AWK
15:22:35 [bbailey]: Particularly, 29.12, 2.8.71
15:22:43 [jamesn]: rrsagent, make minutes
15:22:43 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/13-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
15:22:49 [MichaelC]: ack me
15:22:57 [MichaelC]: zakim, next item
15:22:57 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "Review of https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comments_Needing_Responses (4 new)" taken up [from AWK]
15:23:03 [AWK]: Zakim, next item
15:23:03 [Zakim]: agendum 1 was just opened, AWK
15:23:21 [bbailey]: s/29.12/2912/
15:23:32 [bbailey]: s/2.8.71/2871/
15:23:34 [AWK]: Zakim, close this item
15:23:34 [Zakim]: agendum 1 closed
15:23:35 [Zakim]: I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:23:35 [Zakim]: 6. Discussion on comment processing - improving how we deal with questions to the working group, from the working group. [from AWK]
15:23:41 [AWK]: Zakim, next item
15:23:41 [Zakim]: agendum 6. "Discussion on comment processing - improving how we deal with questions to the working group, from the working group." taken up [from AWK]
15:24:17 [Zakim]: -Lisa_Seeman
15:25:03 [bbailey]: Comment from working group tend to be bigger and need more work
15:25:11 [AWK]: Suggesting new process for comments from WG members
15:25:12 [AWK]: WG-raised issues should be filed in issue tracker http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/issues/
15:25:24 [AWK]: if raised on mailing list, migrate to tracker
15:25:35 [AWK]: same for WG public comments, document they get moved to tracker instead of treated as public comment
15:25:42 [bbailey]: s/Comment from working/Main issues is that comments from working/
15:26:06 [AWK]: which resolves the public comment - by adding to tracker
15:26:19 [AWK]: standing agenda item to walk through tracker issues and discuss
15:26:38 [AWK]: people can put comments in issue or by email before WG discussion so dont need WBS
15:27:58 [bbailey]: Working group suggestions tend to be deeper and more complex
15:28:26 [bbailey]: Question to working group: How does this sound?
15:28:33 [David]: q+
15:28:37 [AWK]: ack d
15:29:16 [bbailey]: Question is if we should dialog less on list serve?
15:29:18 [MichaelC]: ack me
15:29:39 [bbailey]: David is concerned that issues might no look like they are picked up.
15:30:04 [bbailey]: s/that issues might/that issues from public might/
15:30:27 [bbailey]: David asks advantages for our tracker v git hub
15:30:45 [bbailey]: AWK: we are figuring this out
15:31:08 [bbailey]: WG has more familiarity with issue tracker than git hub
15:31:30 [bbailey]: Michael outline process of tracker
15:32:09 [bbailey]: Current issue is that formality of tracker works better for discreet issues
15:32:49 [bbailey]: Concern with git hub is that it is not W3C controlled service
15:32:57 [Joshue]: zakim, queue?
15:32:57 [Zakim]: I see no one on the speaker queue
15:33:11 [bbailey]: Would be alarming to loose git hub discussions
15:33:46 [bbailey]: AWK: using tracker may seem a little redundant, but we know threads are preserved
15:34:29 [Joshue]: +q
15:34:30 [Joshue]: ack me
15:34:47 [bbailey]: Joshue, any objections?
15:34:59 [bbailey]: We are trying to reduce overhead, make things more efficient.
15:35:10 [Joshue]: zakim, mute me
15:35:10 [Zakim]: Joshue should now be muted
15:35:13 [MichaelC]: My thoughts: we need a tracker for issues raised by WG members, so they don´t get lost. Suspect people use the public comments process for that, but that conflates issues and imposes extra formality that we don´t need.
15:35:30 [MichaelC]: Using our tracker helps with assurance, so WG members don´t need to use the public comment process.
15:35:46 [MichaelC]: Use internal tracker instead of GitHub issue management because we need a paper trail for posterity
15:35:53 [MichaelC]: If GitHub goes down, we lose that
15:35:59 [bbailey]: RESOLUTION: Adopt proposal
15:36:41 [AWK]: Zakim, close item
15:36:41 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'close item', AWK
15:36:50 [AWK]: Zakim, next item
15:36:50 [Zakim]: agendum 2. "Discussion on http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_a_script_load_toggle_for_feature_detection_libraries_to_provide_a_conforming_alternate_version - Discussion on
15:36:53 [Zakim]: ... approach" taken up [from AWK]
15:37:09 [bbailey]: s/Adopt proposal/Adopt process as described for handling working group comments/
15:38:59 [bbailey]: Author of technique, Allister asking if he is on right tracking, asking for feedback
15:39:35 [Joshue]: +q
15:40:00 [Loretta]: q+
15:40:09 [bbailey]: Trying to get back to DOM plus text, but don’t want accessible version to look like it is dumbed down
15:40:12 [AWK]: ack j
15:40:14 [Joshue]: ack me
15:40:37 [bbailey]: s/is on right tracking/is on right track/
15:41:12 [Joshue]: ack lore
15:41:14 [AWK]: ack lo
15:41:16 [bbailey]: Joshue thinks this may conflicts with progressive enhancement
15:41:32 [Joshue]: s/conflicts/conflict
15:41:59 [bbailey]: Loretta understand concern for alternate version, but since we allow them, this should fine technique for alternative version
15:42:10 [Joshue]: zakim, mute me
15:42:10 [Zakim]: Joshue should now be muted
15:42:25 [Joshue]: +q
15:42:27 [Joshue]: ack me
15:42:28 [AWK]: ack j
15:42:40 [bbailey]: Ongoing issue that documenting techniques is interpreted as advocating technique as best practices
15:43:16 [Joshue]: zakim, mute me
15:43:16 [Zakim]: Joshue should now be muted
15:43:18 [bbailey]: Joshue concerns with perception versus what is actually proposed in practice
15:43:46 [bbailey]: David tries to paraphrase
15:44:19 [bbailey]: That the conforming alternative version is available by link.
15:45:05 [Joshue]: +q
15:45:10 [bbailey]: AWK paraphrases as page making extensive use of progressive design, but all states of DOM not all testible
15:45:33 [bbailey]: So idea is to have explicit link to robustly tested version
15:46:00 [bbailey]: Technique could be pragmatic response to having too many combinations to test.
15:46:50 [bbailey]: David possible likes idea.
15:46:58 [AWK]: ack j
15:47:00 [Joshue]: ack me
15:47:19 [bbailey]: Don’t want this to be analogy of using back door kitchen door for wheelchair access.
15:47:50 [bbailey]: Joshue likes approach since it can be quite practical. Great flag for bigger issues.
15:47:52 [Wilco]: +q to include a warning
15:48:15 [AWK]: ack wilco
15:48:15 [Zakim]: Wilco, you wanted to include a warning
15:48:22 [Joshue]: zakim, mute me
15:48:22 [Zakim]: Joshue should now be muted
15:48:23 [bbailey]: Helps address versioning, and issues with accessibility supported.
15:48:40 [Zakim]: -jon_avila
15:48:48 [bbailey]: Wilco: Could be good, may need significant caveats.
15:49:21 [bbailey]: Would be better for default version to be accessible. Fallback options are always a concern.
15:49:34 [Joshue]: +1
15:50:03 [bbailey]: RESOLUTION: Communicate to Alistair that work is worth pursing
15:50:06 [AWK]: Zakim, next item
15:50:06 [Zakim]: agendum 3. "Misc Survey 6th May 2014 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20140506/results (only LC-2854)" taken up [from AWK]
15:50:26 [bbailey]: s/pursing/pursuing/
15:51:08 [bbailey]: Suggestion is get rid of acronym and just use abbr
15:51:44 [bbailey]: Use abbr to mark up expansions
15:52:00 [MichaelC]: ack me
15:52:18 [AWK]: https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20130905/2854
15:52:28 [bbailey]: Michael reviewing
15:53:02 [bbailey]: RESOLUTION: Accepted as ammended
15:53:25 [AWK]: Zakim, next item
15:53:25 [Zakim]: agendum 4. "Survey. Techniques and Institutional Memory. https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/13May2014/" taken up [from AWK]
15:54:16 [bbailey]: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/13May2014/results#xcaptions
15:54:26 [bbailey]: 1. [Updated Technique] Combining adjacent image and text links for the same resource
15:55:14 [bbailey]: AWK suggest getting rid of example with closing slash so example combined and simplier
15:56:01 [bbailey]: Does not really seem necessary to have both XHTML and HTML.
15:56:47 [bbailey]: Bruce asks why example are different.
15:57:30 [MichaelC]: ack me
15:57:37 [bbailey]: Loretta points out that example have been there before, point was to rephrase as positive statements.
15:57:45 [bbailey]: Bruce retracts his suggestion.
15:58:17 [AWK]: http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20081211/H2.html
15:59:11 [Joshue]: zakim, queue?
15:59:11 [Zakim]: I see no one on the speaker queue
15:59:17 [bbailey]: Edit may make DIFF hard to spot
15:59:19 [AWK]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/index.php?title=Techniques%2FHTML%2FCombining_adjacent_image_and_text_links_for_the_same_resource&diff=4376&oldid=96
16:00:22 [bbailey]: Michael feels rewording is an improvement
16:01:15 [bbailey]: AWK asks about combining two examples.
16:01:37 [Joshue]: Agreed
16:01:53 [bbailey]: Only difference is a single slash, too much text for such trivial difference.
16:02:13 [bbailey]: David, Joshue, Bruce agree with simplification
16:02:44 [bbailey]: Michael points out that HTML5 prefers HTML syntax!
16:03:02 [bbailey]: RESOLUTION: Accepted as ammended
16:03:33 [Joshue]: zakim, agenda?
16:03:33 [Zakim]: I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
16:03:34 [Zakim]: 4. Survey. Techniques and Institutional Memory. https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/13May2014/ [from AWK]
16:03:56 [bbailey]: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/13May2014/results#xaudiodes
16:04:26 [bbailey]: Issue is that ARIA-invalid can be the solution or be part of a solution
16:04:44 [bbailey]: Concern is that ARIA-invalid can be the solution or be part of a solution
16:06:03 [bbailey]: Jon has concern with useability for folks with low vision
16:06:38 [Joshue]: Changing the text may be sufficient?
16:06:54 [bbailey]: Example uses border attribute, so that helps.
16:07:03 [Joshue]: zakim, queue?
16:07:03 [Zakim]: I see no one on the speaker queue
16:07:08 [bbailey]: Jon has suggested edit with phrasing
16:07:08 [Joshue]: +q
16:07:50 [Joshue]: ack me
16:08:00 [bbailey]: James likes having CSS techniques
16:08:13 [Joshue]: zakim, mute me
16:08:13 [Zakim]: Joshue should now be muted
16:08:48 [bbailey]: David clarifies that with example icon is in CSS
16:09:09 [Joshue]: +1 to Jons suggestion
16:09:10 [bbailey]: Discussion to small modification to support using CSS
16:10:14 [bbailey]: Jon's suggestion to second bullet, for example by using an error-icon rendered visually by some technique that does not rely on color such as a visual cue like a border.
16:10:28 [bbailey]: James and others okay with this.
16:10:34 [MichaelC]: ackme
16:10:35 [MichaelC]: ack me
16:10:54 [bbailey]: Michael asked to clarify his comment.
16:11:30 [bbailey]: Discussion that AT support may not be sufficient.
16:11:56 [bbailey]: May want aria-invalid plus label technique
16:12:35 [Joshue]: ack me
16:12:47 [bbailey]: Discussion that objective is have discreet technique that does not rely upon lable
16:14:01 [bbailey]: Concern expressed with statement: When visible text is used to programmatically identify a failed field and / or convey how the error can be corrected, setting aria-invalid to "true" is superfluous from a strict compliance standpoint.
16:14:41 [bbailey]: Don’t want to steer people away from aria.
16:15:34 [bbailey]: Michael: This harkens back to long standing concern AT-push issue.
16:16:02 [bbailey]: We want to encourage support for aria, but not require it
16:16:15 [bbailey]: Discussion of text edit...
16:17:22 [bbailey]: Michaels comment also applies to example 2.
16:18:39 [bbailey]: Discussion how to edit examples to keep them parallel in form.
16:19:02 [Joshue]: zakim, mute me
16:19:02 [Zakim]: Joshue should now be muted
16:19:07 [Wilco]: Wilco has left #wai-wcag
16:19:09 [Joshue]: brb
16:19:27 [wilco]: wilco has joined #wai-wcag
16:19:30 [bbailey]: AKW and Michael make discussed changes to wiki page
16:20:17 [bbailey]: AKW makes analogy to calendar controls
16:21:14 [bbailey]: Highlight difference between “incorrect” and “missing”.
16:22:08 [bbailey]: Examples now have both ARIA invalid and described by
16:22:09 [Joshue]: zakim, queue?
16:22:09 [Zakim]: I see no one on the speaker queue
16:22:57 [Joshue]: +Q
16:23:03 [bbailey]: Description updated as well.
16:23:07 [wilco]: +q
16:23:12 [Joshue]: ack me
16:23:13 [AWK]: ack j
16:24:05 [bbailey]: Wilco asks about error correction versus just error identification
16:24:24 [bbailey]: s/Wilco asks about/Joshue asks about/
16:24:29 [AWK]: ack w
16:24:32 [Joshue]: ack wil
16:24:47 [Joshue]: zakim, mute me
16:24:47 [Zakim]: Joshue should now be muted
16:25:20 [bbailey]: Wilco points out ambiguity in test procedure around “instructional text”
16:25:45 [bbailey]: Discussion
16:25:50 [bbailey]: q+
16:26:21 [bbailey]: q-
16:26:24 [Joshue]: BB: Isn't the requirement for the instruction text, we may not have prog association as an explicit requirement
16:26:48 [Joshue]: ack me
16:28:16 [bbailey]: Discussion that programmatic association for instructional text okay even if not required by SC, can be appropriate for technique.
16:30:01 [bbailey]: RESOLUTION: Accepted as amended
16:30:36 [Zakim]: -James_Nurthen
16:30:49 [bbailey]: Did not get to last couple items.
16:30:53 [David]: q+
16:31:10 [bbailey]: AWK: Have 5 or 6 techniques, but time running short
16:31:33 [bbailey]: David has technique in progress for aria described by
16:32:01 [bbailey]: Or may be aria labeled by, we can choose one over the other
16:32:41 [bbailey]: Open call on Thursday, let Loretta or James know
16:32:47 [Zakim]: -Joshue
16:32:49 [Zakim]: -Michael_Cooper
16:32:50 [Zakim]: -kathleen
16:32:51 [Zakim]: -Wilco
16:32:51 [Zakim]: -David_MacDonald
16:32:53 [Zakim]: -Loretta
16:33:08 [AWK]: Zakim, list attendees
16:33:08 [Zakim]: As of this point the attendees have been David_MacDonald, AWK, Bruce_Bailey, +31.30.239.aaaa, Wilco, kathleen, +1.571.389.aabb, jon_avila, Loretta, Lisa_Seeman, Michael_Cooper,
16:33:12 [Zakim]: ... Joshue, James_Nurthen
16:33:31 [AWK]: Zakim, make minutes
16:33:34 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'make minutes', AWK
16:33:42 [AWK]: RRSAgent, make minutes
16:33:42 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/13-wai-wcag-minutes.html AWK
16:33:59 [Zakim]: -Bruce_Bailey
16:34:00 [Zakim]: WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has ended
16:34:00 [Zakim]: Attendees were David_MacDonald, AWK, Bruce_Bailey, +31.30.239.aaaa, Wilco, kathleen, +1.571.389.aabb, jon_avila, Loretta, Lisa_Seeman, Michael_Cooper, Joshue, James_Nurthen
16:34:00 [AWK]: zakim, bye
16:34:00 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #wai-wcag
16:36:27 [bbailey]: Or maybe it is still being processed?