14:54:13 RRSAgent has joined #html-media
14:54:13 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/05/13-html-media-irc
14:54:15 RRSAgent, make logs public
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14:54:17 Zakim, this will be 63342
14:54:17 ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
14:54:18 Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
14:54:18 Date: 13 May 2014
14:55:53 ddorwin has joined #html-media
14:56:34 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014May/0025.html
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14:58:26 HTML_WG()11:00AM has now started
14:58:33 +Niels_Thorwirth
14:59:10 +[Microsoft]
14:59:21 zakim, [Microsoft] is me
14:59:21 +paulc; got it
14:59:28 zakim, who is on the phone?
14:59:28 On the phone I see Niels_Thorwirth, paulc
14:59:53 Niels_verimatrix_ has joined #html-media
15:00:09 +pladd
15:00:37 BobLund has joined #html-media
15:00:40 markw has joined #html-media
15:00:40 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014May/0025.html
15:01:12 davide has joined #html-media
15:01:19 +MarkW
15:01:32 Zakim, MarkW is markw
15:01:32 +markw; got it
15:01:47 +davide
15:02:10 zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:10 On the phone I see Niels_Thorwirth, paulc, pladd, markw, davide
15:02:31 + +1.425.936.aaaa
15:02:40 zakim, aaaa is me
15:02:40 +ddorwin; got it
15:02:56 zakim, who is on IRC?
15:02:56 I don't understand your question, paulc.
15:04:11 zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:11 On the phone I see Niels_Thorwirth, paulc, pladd, markw, davide, ddorwin
15:05:42 pal has joined #html-media
15:06:42 -pladd
15:07:36 Topic: EME status and bugs
15:07:52 +pal
15:08:20 +BobLund
15:08:28 http://tinyurl.com/7tfambo 21 bugs open
15:08:30 joesteele has joined #html-media
15:09:07 + +1.781.221.aabb
15:09:15 Scribenick: paulc
15:09:27 Topic: NEW EME bugs since the last meeting
15:09:32 Zakim, aabb is me
15:09:32 +joesteele; got it
15:09:44 Bug 25580 - Add Informative Reference to Byte Stream Format Registry in MSE editors draft.
15:09:51 +[Microsoft]
15:09:54 jdsmith has joined #html-media
15:09:59 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25580
15:10:12 Bug 25581 - Establish a update process & home for byte stream format registry and byte stream specs.
15:10:28 This is a MSE bug
15:10:41 Both 25581 and 25580 are MSE bugs. sorry
15:10:55 scribe: joesteele
15:11:01 Topic: New Bugs
15:11:05 Bug 25594 - The read-only attribute usableKeyIds cannot be variable length
15:11:14 Topic: bug 25594
15:11:19 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25594
15:11:38 ddorwin: re-read the IDL spec and it says this cannot be fixed length
15:11:48 ... so we have two options I thought of
15:11:52 Array getUsableKeyIds();
15:11:56 ... 1) define as a get method
15:12:07 ... 2) define as a Promise satisfied with the array
15:12:22 See https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25594#c1
15:12:29 ... first one CDMs must provide even when apps don't want it, other would be asynchornous to go get them
15:12:40 ... CDM will be doing something when the keys change
15:12:47 paulc: any comments?
15:12:52 Chair: paulc
15:13:02 paulc: any preference?
15:13:30 ddorwin: cDM is already telling the UA about these events, looking for feedback on this
15:13:53 markw: run into race conditions with the promise?
15:14:04 ddorwin: promise would be the most up to date value
15:14:09 ... could just ask again
15:14:17 ... could also have a race condition with the event model
15:15:05 markw: wondering if it is guaranteed that the events will arrive at the app in the same order as the requests?
15:15:11 ddorwin: no even for the event
15:15:23 markw: not sure if they will be processed in the same order
15:15:35 paulc: do you have a preference Mark?
15:15:38 markw: not yet
15:15:57 Topic: bug 25269
15:16:01 Bug 25269 - Add a container-independent initialization data type for providing a list of key IDs to createSession()
15:16:02 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25269
15:16:15 paulc: got at least one response in the bug
15:16:47 ddorwin: discussion between joe and I was more related to why than how
15:17:00 Three options identified by David: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25269#c15
15:17:00 paulc: this is the message with the 3 options
15:17:20 ... asked folks to look at this -- anyone not prepared to discuss?
15:17:26 ddorwin: either 2 or 3
15:17:42 #2 #2 Use a JSON definition and serialize it into a Uint8Array
15:17:54 #3: Use a binary format
15:18:15 +q
15:18:36 ddorwin: think it matters more to the developers not the UA folks
15:18:36 ack joe
15:19:43 q+
15:20:10 joesteele: not convinved that this cannot be done on the sevrer side
15:20:26 ... if we do this -- I would prefer #2
15:20:36 ack markw
15:20:49 markw: why is option #1 not preferred?
15:20:59 #1: Allow createSession() to accept a JavaScript object in addition to the Uint8Array option.
15:21:14 ddorwin: ideal from a developer perspective but would nee to overload createSession
15:22:03 ... this is extra implementation without the same flow as proprietary CDMs -- could do number #1 but seems unnecessary
15:22:12 markw: ok then I would prefer #2 as well
15:22:57 paulc: is that enough input to move forward?
15:23:05 ddorwin: yes
15:23:12 ... editors will move forward
15:23:48 Topic: Cluster of bugs - bug 17673
15:23:55 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17673
15:24:08 Review by Mark and Jerry: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17673#c53
15:24:11 paulc: editors were going to review these bugs
15:24:14 ... status?
15:24:39 jdsmith: cicrulated the doc -- accurate as far as it goes but might go further
15:24:54 s/cicrulated/circulated/
15:25:03 ... some language that could be added but has not been yet
15:25:11 ... some discussion of key rotation
15:25:42 Bug 17673 - Define Initialization Data for implementations that choose to support the ISO Base Media File Format
15:25:52 ... we added comments about PSSH in respond to the bug, these are related but clarifiying
15:26:02 ddorwin: any clarfiications we should just make
15:26:12 ... the leaf node, embedded node stuff we should discuss more
15:26:29 jdsmith: will probably make a couple of mods for the PSSH location
15:26:44 markw: comment in the bug
15:26:56 paulc: Jerry owns this bug, editors know what they want
15:27:14 ... this ref'd bug 17682, bug 24419, bug 24427
15:27:34 The first two will be JSON passed to/from the APIs via the Encoding API.
15:27:41 ... these are all pending actions by the editors -- that will close 4 more bugs
15:28:08 ddorwin: the 3rd one Mark has an action to formalize the proposal I think
15:28:21 I haven't done that yet
15:28:33 paulc: your notes said you will formalize -- have not done yet
15:28:52 Topic: isTypeSupported Bugs
15:29:05 paulc: something to disucs here?
15:29:29 Topic: bug 25092, bug 25218, bug 24874, bug 24873
15:29:38 paulc: another batch
15:30:03 25218 was Withdrawn and replaced by 25595
15:30:23 ... worth attacking today?
15:30:34 ddorwin: not at this time -- Jerry is loking at using capabilities
15:31:00 jdsmith: had a discussion and are converging on a proposal around contratins and isTypeSupported
15:31:12 ... that is the direction we are heading
15:31:19 paulc: does that attack te broad set of bugs?
15:31:27 jdsmith: I believe so
15:31:46 ... have to look at each one -- this is specifcally about understanding capabilities
15:32:04 ... more than the specific media types -- handles constraints of the device
15:32:13 paulc: when can you respond? next week?
15:32:22 jdsmith: expect a proposal by end of the week
15:32:37 paulc: if you can make it clear which are pertinent that would help
15:33:04 Topic: bug 25119
15:33:17 Topic: bug 21798, bug 24771
15:33:28 paulc: 24771 is pending implementation
15:33:37 Bug 21798 - Revisit MediaKeyError codes
15:33:43 ... we have a long toustanding 21798 revisit error codes
15:33:54 ddorwin: have not looked at these in a while
15:34:06 ... error codes are affected by other changes -- will put off for now
15:34:18 paulc: did I have 24771 right?
15:34:31 ddorwin: yes -- agreement on what it should be just need to describe
15:34:51 paulc: Jerry might want to think about impact on this bug for capabilities stuff
15:35:01 Topic: New Business
15:35:10 Topic: Use Cases/Application Models
15:35:14 Topic: Bug 25595
15:35:15 Bug 25595 - Better definitions needed for session, keys and license
15:35:49 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25595
15:39:02 joesteele: this bug is to capture comments made in various other bugs about the lack of clarity of what is in a sessoin
15:39:07 ... what is a license and what are keys
15:39:08 q+
15:39:54 ack markw
15:40:14 markw: think I agree with what Joe is saying -- we could more carefull with our deifnitions
15:40:30 ... session is a context for key exchange and we don't say anything else
15:40:48 ... soem DRMs call them licenses, some call then something else, don't need to define further
15:41:00 q+
15:41:07 ... don't think we need more semantics
15:41:13 ack dd
15:41:26 ddorwin: thanks for providing the specific recommenedations
15:41:47 ... the probblem may be with the aplication and the usage models
15:41:54 ... Jerry mentioned leaf keys for example
15:42:15 ... changing the spec text to allow undocumented behavior may lead to problems
15:42:19 +q
15:42:32 ... to help encourage interop we should define how these things work
15:42:45 ... e.g. we can agree on how leaf nodes work
15:43:19 ... in bug 20944 (text)
15:43:32 ... this is the interop bug
15:43:34 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20944
15:43:44 ack joe
15:45:12 Wiki kmentioned by Joe: https://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/Media_Task_Force
15:45:40 joesteele: my issue is really that some CDMs like mine bring these issues in for even the simplest case
15:46:20 ... so I am not opposed to discussing the key hierarchy and other session-related issues but I don't think it is needed to get the simple use case supported
15:46:53 paulc: we still have 20 bugs -- eventually we will have to come to grips with this issue about future use cases versus todays use cases
15:47:31 ... it seems like this is a tension that exists whether we will get interop between applications that do not know which CDM they are using
15:47:39 ... we have to handle that at some point
15:48:05 ... getting some discussion going in the wiki on the use cases -- that would be a step forward
15:49:02 paulc: that was the new bug
15:49:28 ... several other bugs in this cluster -- should we discuss bug 24082 or bug 25034
15:49:38 ... last one looks like it was re-opened
15:49:49 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25434
15:50:10 ddorwin: we previously discussed out-of-band comm being out of scope for EME
15:50:18 ... was re-opened as unacceptable
15:50:22 +q
15:50:43 ddorwin: no new info in the bug
15:51:01 niels: discussion was more about why it would not be allowed and why it was closed
15:51:17 ... originally was that you do not need EME for out-of-band comm
15:51:28 ... but you do need EME to signal that you want this comm
15:51:52 ddorwin: are you saying that you want isTypeSupported?
15:52:17 niels: yes -- CDM can signal that so it does not have to do key exchanges via the application
15:52:35 ddorwin: think it is ruled out by the spec, but you could do it. Would not be interoperable
15:52:53 niels: not something we need to address, change the abstract only
15:53:00 ... as long as the key messages are optional
15:53:08 ... then CDM can signal when it is ready to decrypt
15:53:33 ddorwin: I will post my use case description and that would explain how things would work in this case
15:53:43 ... it would be usefull to know what your application would look like
15:54:27 niels: don't see things that would prevent this from executing
15:54:53 ddorwin: once we have the use cases we can have discussions about the model and about where we are restrictive
15:55:05 paulc: this is the tension I was mentioning
15:55:40 ... maybe this will draw people to make comments in the wiki -- David and Niels maybe
15:55:46 ... will be on the agenda for next week
15:56:00 Topic: Other business
15:56:09 paulc: This covered half of the bugs
15:56:19 ... no other business to handle -- will pick this up next week
15:56:23 -BobLund
15:56:25 rrsagent, generate minutes
15:56:25 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/13-html-media-minutes.html paulc
15:56:35 Zakim, who is here?
15:56:35 On the phone I see Niels_Thorwirth, paulc, markw, davide, ddorwin, pal, joesteele, [Microsoft]
15:56:37 On IRC I see jdsmith, joesteele, pal, davide, markw, Niels_verimatrix_, pladd, ddorwin, Zakim, RRSAgent, paulc, trackbot, wseltzer
15:56:37 -davide
15:56:40 -[Microsoft]
15:56:40 -markw
15:56:41 -Niels_Thorwirth
15:56:44 -ddorwin
15:56:48 rrsagent, generate minutes
15:56:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/13-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
15:56:53 -joesteele
15:57:35 s/cDM/CDM/
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15:57:37 rrsagent, generate minutes
15:57:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/13-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
15:59:41 s/convinved/convinced/
15:59:43 rrsagent, generate minutes
15:59:43 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/13-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
15:59:57 s/nee to/need to/
16:02:55 -pal
16:06:16 -paulc
16:06:17 HTML_WG()11:00AM has ended
16:06:17 Attendees were Niels_Thorwirth, paulc, pladd, markw, davide, +1.425.936.aaaa, ddorwin, pal, BobLund, +1.781.221.aabb, joesteele, [Microsoft]
16:15:08 rrsagent, generate minutes
16:15:08 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/13-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
16:15:41 s/clarfiications/clarifications/
16:15:43 rrsagent, generate minutes
16:15:43 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/13-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
16:16:24 s/disucs here/discuss here/
16:16:26 rrsagent, generate minutes
16:16:26 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/13-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
16:16:40 s/loking/looking/
16:16:41 rrsagent, generate minutes
16:16:41