13:55:00 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webizen
13:55:00 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/05/12-webizen-irc
13:55:06 <koalie> Zakim, this will be team_jeff
13:55:06 <Zakim> ok, koalie; I see Team_JEFF(WEBIZEN)10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
13:55:12 <koalie> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:55:27 <koalie> meeting: Webizen task force meeting
13:55:30 <koalie> chair: Jeff
13:55:53 <koalie> -> http://www.w3.org/2014/05/05-webizen-minutes.html Prevous Webizen task force meeting (2014-05-05)
13:56:20 <koalie> koalie has changed the topic to: Webizen task force - https://www.w3.org/wiki/Webizen
13:58:24 <Zakim> Team_JEFF(WEBIZEN)10:00AM has now started
13:58:32 <Zakim> +Jean-Charles
13:59:06 <koalie> regrets+ AndreiSambra
14:00:00 <Zakim> +koalie
14:00:35 <jeff> jeff has joined #webizen
14:01:00 <Zakim> +Veronica
14:02:51 <Zakim> +Jeff
14:03:36 <Zakim> + +1.512.257.aaaa
14:03:50 <koalie> Zakim, aaaa is VirginieGalindo
14:03:50 <Zakim> +VirginieGalindo; got it
14:04:00 <koalie> scribe: Coralie
14:04:01 <koalie> scribenick: koalie
14:04:10 <virginie> virginie has joined #webizen
14:04:17 <koalie> Jeff: Any point we should discuss, further to e-mail activity?
14:04:42 <koalie> Zakim, nick virginie is VirginieGalindo
14:04:42 <Zakim> ok, koalie, I now associate virginie with VirginieGalindo
14:04:51 <koalie> Virginie: Let's go over wiki, I suggest
14:04:54 <koalie> Jeff: OK
14:05:14 <koalie> ... Background hasn't changed
14:05:22 <koalie> ... Concept hasn't changed
14:05:25 <koalie> ... Name
14:05:32 <koalie> Jeff: there are a number of proposed names
14:05:39 <jcverdie> zakim, nick jcverdie is Jean-Charles
14:05:39 <Zakim> ok, jcverdie, I now associate you with Jean-Charles
14:05:46 <koalie> ... Ann added a note that name should have some sparkle
14:05:57 <koalie> ... and note also of meaning in cultures
14:05:59 <virginie> zakim, who is on the phone ?
14:06:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see Jean-Charles, koalie, Veronica, Jeff, VirginieGalindo
14:06:32 <koalie> Jeff: "Webizen" has maybe a bad connotation, Virginie, any opinion? Frenchies on the call?
14:06:44 <koalie> JC: "Collaborator" would have a bad connotation in French
14:06:54 <koalie> ... "Webizen" i don't see anything bad
14:06:54 <virginie> note : I am ok with webizen
14:06:59 <koalie> Coralie: neither do I
14:07:08 <koalie> Jeff: "Zen" means something in French
14:07:31 <koalie> ... also "citizen/citoyen"
14:07:34 <koalie> JC: I can't speak for that person, but I disagree.
14:07:45 <koalie> ... and "citoyen" there is nothing bad I can think of
14:07:49 <koalie> Jeff: Let's move away then
14:08:00 <koalie> Topic: Package of benefits
14:08:15 <jcverdie> q+
14:08:15 <koalie> Jeff: Some did not like the idea of a web ID card
14:08:28 <koalie> Virginie: Could make it a possibility
14:08:33 <koalie> ... they don't have to hav eit
14:08:34 <veronica> how about just an ecard
14:08:43 <koalie> Jeff: We can make it optional, or even virtual
14:08:51 <koalie> ack j
14:09:00 <koalie> JC: I was concerned about yet another card in my wallet
14:09:09 <koalie> ... Either virtual or optional would be good
14:09:16 <koalie> Jeff: OK, we can make that change.
14:09:29 <koalie> ... There was a concern about shipping, similarly for the idea of a t-shirt
14:09:34 <koalie> ... We could also charge for shipping
14:09:39 <koalie> ... How does that sound
14:09:43 <veronica> ok with me
14:09:43 <koalie> q+
14:09:47 <koalie> ack me
14:09:50 <virginie> +1 to me
14:10:34 <koalie> Coralie: I'd suggest to table for now, till we have a stronger list of packages and we know which we can nix and make optional
14:10:37 <koalie> Jeff: OK
14:10:38 <virginie> q+
14:10:44 <koalie> Jeff: Chaals has concerned on a Webizen blog
14:11:01 <koalie> ... putting them on the W3C blog would require some overhead
14:11:04 <jeff> ack vir
14:11:05 <koalie> ack v
14:11:18 <koalie> virginie: I don't understand, is that a separate blog?
14:11:31 <koalie> Jeff: The idea would be, also for W3C pages, a link to a webizen blog
14:11:46 <koalie> ... clearly identified place for webizen to reflect on the Web, however they want to
14:11:54 <koalie> ... You can have unmoderated, or moderated Blog
14:12:06 <koalie> ... It should be the Webizens themselve to moderate it, rather than the W3C team.
14:12:17 <jcverdie> q+
14:12:23 <koalie> Virginie: For me the value, maybe the vision I have is wrong, would be to be on the W3C blog
14:12:31 <koalie> ... and it should be moderated by Team
14:12:36 <koalie> ... That would be the value
14:12:43 <koalie> ... Another silo for discussion would not be valuable.
14:12:47 <koalie> +1 to virginie
14:12:49 <koalie> ack JC
14:12:56 <koalie> JC: I'd tend to disagree on the Blog
14:13:03 <koalie> ... People who will blog will blog
14:13:12 <koalie> ... They might not be willing to blog somewhere else
14:13:27 <koalie> ... We could duplicate entries, with authors' agreement
14:13:32 <koalie> q+
14:13:36 <koalie> ack j
14:13:43 <koalie> ack me
14:13:45 <jeff> ack koa
14:14:11 <jcverdie> s/will blog will blog/will blog will blog on their own blog
14:14:34 <koalie> Coralie: +1 to JC, people favour blogging in their own space
14:14:45 <koalie> ... that being said, the W3C blog generates a lot of views
14:14:53 <koalie> ... so people might like the appeal to blog there
14:15:23 <koalie> Jeff: If we were to open up to Webizen, given the WC blog is a trusted place, and quality control is required, it would mean a lot of overhead
14:15:24 <virginie> q+
14:15:26 <koalie> Coralie: Yes
14:15:33 <koalie> ack v
14:15:56 <koalie> Virginie: When I said the Webizens could blog directly in W3C Blog, I wasn't thinking not 10 entries per day
14:16:46 <koalie> Jeff: If you call it a benefit that they have a voice in the W3C Blog, then at least in theory, you're inviting everybody to blog on the W3C blog
14:16:57 <koalie> ... and you get a quantity and quality issue to manage
14:17:02 <koalie> ... how would you manage it?
14:17:15 <koalie> ... W3C bloggers have write access to a trusted space.
14:17:32 <koalie> ... Another thing we could do is that elected representatives can write on the W3c Blog
14:17:45 <koalie> ... and the Webizens have a voice on a separate blog
14:17:50 <koalie> ... What do people think about that?
14:17:52 <virginie> ok
14:17:55 <koalie> Coralie: That would work for me
14:18:01 <veronica> ok
14:18:17 <koalie> Jeff: Any other comments on the benefits before we move on?
14:18:27 <koalie> Topic: Participation Benefits and Non Benefits
14:18:33 <koalie> Jeff: Section on elected AC reps
14:18:49 <koalie> ... chaals came up with a crazy formula on the ML
14:19:26 <koalie> ... for Webizen voting for the AC, some people on AC forum had a lot to say,
14:19:31 <koalie> ... I restructured that section a bit
14:19:51 <koalie> ... to say that the techniques that Webizens would use to vote for their AC reps will be determined by the webizens themselves
14:20:02 <koalie> ... and we would use the wiki to collect the proposals
14:20:10 <koalie> ... I have yet to see a proposal 2
14:20:21 <koalie> ... Calling attention now that proposals are welcome in the wiki.
14:20:23 <virginie> q+
14:20:32 <koalie> ack V
14:20:45 <koalie> Virginie: I have a question, as I wasn't there when you started to discuss this
14:21:01 <koalie> ... What is the critical mass which would make the webizens choose a mechanism?
14:21:47 <koalie> ... I understand there is a wish to let them design their own system
14:21:56 <koalie> Jeff: I should add to the wiki that we can revisit every year
14:22:28 <koalie> Virginie: @@@ making sure everyone agree
14:22:56 <koalie> Jeff: It may never be the case that everyone agrees, but I agree with everything you said before.
14:23:06 <virginie> s/@@@/you may ask every 2 years if all webizen are happy with the voting process,
14:23:08 <koalie> Topic: Drafting a Webizen network structure
14:23:25 <koalie> Jeff: I modified a bit that text; Virginie as original author, please ensure this is right
14:23:29 <virginie> q+
14:23:31 <koalie> ack V
14:23:55 <koalie> Virginie: actually, chaals asked for clarification
14:23:59 <koalie> ... I was thinking about fees
14:24:06 <koalie> ... It was taken from OWASP
14:24:33 <koalie> ... I don't know if it makes sense to give money to the W3C Offices; I don't know how the existing system works
14:25:07 <koalie> ... The idea if to associate people with an Office, be part of a mailing list, etc., and pay with that office.
14:25:14 <koalie> s/if to/is to/
14:26:13 <koalie> Jeff: I like the idea of having association with an office
14:26:27 <koalie> ... we need to have sufficient scale,
14:26:36 <koalie> ... otherwise it won't make a big difference
14:27:12 <koalie> ... I don't want to overly describe it until we have more experience with it overall.
14:27:15 <koalie> +1
14:27:19 <virginie> +1
14:27:20 <koalie> Virginie: Makes sense.
14:27:34 <koalie> Topic: Marketing and Communications
14:29:07 <jeff> q+ to discuss early adopters
14:32:00 <jeff> q+ jj to discuss cost
14:32:23 <jeff> [Koalie reviews the Marketing and Communications part of the wiki
14:32:40 <jeff> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Webizen#Marketing_and_Communications
14:32:54 <koalie> ack jeff
14:32:54 <Zakim> jeff, you wanted to discuss early adopters
14:33:04 <koalie> Jeff: I have a different proposal for early adopters
14:33:15 <koalie> ... People I'd expect to rush and join would be like us
14:33:19 <koalie> ... active in W3C
14:33:28 <koalie> ... and the last thing I was to give them is a discount!
14:33:39 <koalie> ... They would probably be willing to pay more
14:33:47 <koalie> ... -1 to discount, I don't like this idea
14:34:08 <koalie> ... but if we have ID numbers, low serial number will be sherished
14:34:13 <koalie> +1
14:34:13 <jeff> ack jj
14:34:13 <Zakim> jj, you wanted to discuss cost
14:34:26 <koalie> Jeff: I have a question on estimated cost for visual design and website
14:34:55 <koalie> ... When I look at the list of things above, on the website, none of that feels like it shoud cost $15-20K
14:35:38 <koalie> Coralie: the figure came via Ian who's had to have visual identity and website produced for other initiatives.
14:35:41 <koalie> Jeff: OK
14:36:17 <koalie> Jeff: Let's use the wiki to drive our early adoption
14:36:48 <koalie> Jeff: I don't know that there is anything else on the wiki to go over
14:37:00 <koalie> ... any other input before we move to e-mail discussions?
14:37:10 <koalie> q?
14:37:21 <koalie> Topic: recent e-mail discussions
14:37:33 <koalie> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webizen/2014May/
14:39:57 <koalie> Jeff: Ossi from the W3C offices has sent a long reply on the W3C Office mailing list
14:40:01 <koalie> ... he has some use-cases
14:40:15 <koalie> ... not sure it really bears on the proposal in the webizen wiki right now
14:40:19 <virginie> i think ronald is a webizen : https://twitter.com/RonaldMansveld
14:40:33 <koalie> :)
14:40:38 <koalie> Topic: Actions
14:40:56 <koalie> Jeff: Veronica, update on your action
14:41:12 <koalie> Veronica: Ann Bassetti wanted to compare W3C member and webizen proposal
14:41:18 <koalie> ... I have an excel document
14:41:38 <koalie> ... The benefits we were looking at for discount:
14:41:42 <koalie> ... W3C Validator Suite
14:41:49 <koalie> ... W3C Training
14:41:52 <koalie> ... W3C Conference
14:42:15 <koalie> ... I looked at the services; typical early bird rates offered ranging between 15 to 20%
14:42:36 <koalie> ... I had recommended a 20% discount to Webizens for Training, W3Conf might sound reasonable
14:42:54 <koalie> ... When I asked busdev team, they were not so inclined, and would support 10%
14:43:19 <koalie> ... That being said, we don't have a program for member discounts
14:43:30 <koalie> ... everyone would be able to take advantage to an early bird.
14:44:02 <koalie> ... I mentioned Validator Suite, during MWC this year, busdev had an offer with 200 free credits (amounts to about 20%)
14:44:18 <koalie> ... I proposed the same for W3C Validator Suite, but again, busdev would support 10%
14:44:32 <koalie> ... the feeling on the Webizen call was that 10% wasn't a lot of discount
14:44:39 <koalie> +1, my +1 at the time still stands
14:45:02 <koalie> Jeff: +1, 10% is a joke. I understand we don't have even formalized a member discount program.
14:45:10 <jcverdie> +1 again, indeed 10% is a joke
14:45:11 <koalie> ... You may need to make a formal proposal to W3M.
14:45:16 <koalie> veronica: I'll do that.
14:45:31 <koalie> Jeff: That takes care of action items.
14:45:51 <koalie> Topic: Next Meeting
14:45:59 <koalie> Jeff: Next meeting? or are we done?
14:46:02 <virginie> q+
14:46:23 <koalie> ... I'll be traveling, but should we have one more meeting before the AC meeting?
14:46:26 <koalie> ack v
14:46:39 <koalie> ... June 2nd same time?
14:46:45 <veronica> ok
14:46:52 <jcverdie> LGTM
14:46:55 <koalie> works for me
14:46:56 <virginie> ok
14:47:14 <koalie> Jeff: I'll have this set up, then.
14:47:27 <koalie> Virginie: What will be request from the AC at the AC Meeting?
14:47:40 <koalie> ... choose among the package, or is it the full package?
14:47:58 <koalie> Jeff: I plan to ask the AC 5 questions
14:48:05 <koalie> ... I plan to get their advice
14:48:19 <koalie> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Webizen#ISSUES:_June_discussion_at_the_W3C_Advisory_Committee_Meeting
14:48:33 <koalie> Virginie: for me the package looks great
14:48:41 <koalie> ... but is it a list to choose three from?
14:48:53 <koalie> ... the full list? is W3C ready to support the full list?
14:49:28 <koalie> Jeff: Internal management meeting late June (the Woods meeting)
14:49:39 <koalie> ... to make final decision on the Webizen program
14:49:48 <koalie> ... the point of the AC discussion is to get people's input
14:49:53 <koalie> ... it's not going to be a vote
14:50:04 <koalie> ... it's people's thoughts on these ideas.
14:50:11 <koalie> virginie: OK.
14:50:20 <koalie> Jeff: We're done for the day.
14:50:26 <koalie> ... and for three weeks.
14:50:35 <koalie> ... Let's continue to discuss on the mailing list
14:50:40 <koalie> ... and update the wiki
14:50:45 <koalie> ... Final call on 2 June.
14:50:46 <jeff> [adjourned]
14:50:51 <Zakim> -Jeff
14:50:52 <koalie> Zakim, list attendees
14:50:52 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Jean-Charles, koalie, Veronica, Jeff, +1.512.257.aaaa, VirginieGalindo
14:50:53 <veronica> bye
14:50:54 <Zakim> -VirginieGalindo
14:50:54 <Zakim> -Jean-Charles
14:50:56 <Zakim> -Veronica
14:50:57 <Zakim> -koalie
14:50:58 <Zakim> Team_JEFF(WEBIZEN)10:00AM has ended
14:50:58 <Zakim> Attendees were Jean-Charles, koalie, Veronica, Jeff, +1.512.257.aaaa, VirginieGalindo
14:51:03 <koalie> RRSagent, make minutes
14:51:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/12-webizen-minutes.html koalie
14:52:28 <koalie> s/<koalie> ->/<koaliie> ->/G
14:52:30 <koalie> RRSagent, make minutes
14:52:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/12-webizen-minutes.html koalie
14:57:07 <Sebastien> Sebastien has joined #webizen
14:57:41 <Sebastien> Well, I'm late. Thanks for the minutes.
14:59:36 <deiu> Same, thanks!
15:00:39 <deiu> I've been mentioning Webizen to a few friends and they all believe that $100 is quite steep. Is there any indication that people will pay that much for membership?
15:01:38 <deiu> What kickstarter, indiegogo et al. do very well is the tiered price model, if only as an indication of how much people are willing to pay.
15:02:17 <deiu> Maybe I should write an email about it.
15:02:41 <Sebastien> I think so.
16:01:19 <jeff> jeff has joined #webizen
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