IRC log of svg on 2014-05-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:58:01 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #svg
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logging to
12:58:03 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
12:58:03 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #svg
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Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
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ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()9:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
12:58:06 [trackbot]
Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
12:58:06 [trackbot]
Date: 08 May 2014
12:58:18 [ed]
12:58:21 [ed]
chair: ed
12:58:50 [Zakim]
GA_SVGWG()9:00AM has now started
12:58:57 [Zakim]
12:59:06 [cabanier]
zakim, IPcaller is me
12:59:06 [Zakim]
+cabanier; got it
12:59:12 [Zakim]
12:59:36 [Zakim]
12:59:45 [ed]
Zakim, [IP is me
12:59:45 [Zakim]
+ed; got it
13:00:24 [Zakim]
13:02:20 [Zakim]
13:02:54 [stakagi]
zakim ??P3 is me
13:03:06 [stakagi]
zakim, ??P3 is me
13:03:07 [Zakim]
+stakagi; got it
13:03:12 [Zakim]
13:03:27 [nikos]
Zakim, ??P7 is me
13:03:27 [Zakim]
+nikos; got it
13:05:02 [richardschwerdtfeger]
scribe: Rich
13:05:15 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Topic: SVG2 User Agent Implementation Guide
13:05:29 [ed]
scribeNick: richardschwerdtfeger
13:05:47 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Core Accessibility API Mappings
13:05:55 [richardschwerdtfeger]
SVG2 Accessibility API Mappings
13:06:04 [richardschwerdtfeger]
HTML5 Accessibility API Mappings
13:08:19 [ed]
richardschwerdtfeger: does anyone have concerns with the names of the specifications?
13:08:26 [ed]
(none heard)
13:09:14 [richardschwerdtfeger]
scribe: Rich
13:09:25 [ed]
13:09:35 [richardschwerdtfeger]
TOPIC: should we remove tref from SVG2?
13:10:17 [richardschwerdtfeger]
erik: It is not implemented in Firefox. There is not much use in blink. People are looking to remove it if possible.
13:10:24 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Rich: Is it implemented in IE?
13:10:42 [richardschwerdtfeger]
nikos: Not implemented in IE11
13:11:04 [richardschwerdtfeger]
erik: You can use the <use> element instead so not much loss of functionality
13:11:41 [richardschwerdtfeger]
nikos: if <use> satisifes those then we will be ok
13:12:17 [richardschwerdtfeger]
ed: tref can be used inside a text element. but use you would use outside but you can mostly do the same thing
13:12:35 [nikos]
13:12:37 [richardschwerdtfeger]
nikos: There was some comment about it breaking air traffic control software
13:13:01 [richardschwerdtfeger]
nikos: it was a little bit vauge
13:13:06 [richardschwerdtfeger]
13:13:32 [richardschwerdtfeger]
nikos: If it is not really implemented in browsers anyway …
13:13:53 [richardschwerdtfeger]
ed: there were a lot of quirks with it so I would like to remove it. It makes things more complicated for implementation
13:14:28 [richardschwerdtfeger]
ed: If you have script you can do anything with it but there is not always the opportunity to use script
13:14:55 [richardschwerdtfeger]
ed: I propose that we try to drop it with the next publication of the spec.
13:15:17 [richardschwerdtfeger]
ed: hearing no objections
13:15:28 [richardschwerdtfeger]
RESOLUTION: Remove TREF from the SVG 2 spec.
13:16:07 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Topic: Deprecate pixelUnitToMillimeterX, pixelUnitToMillimeterY,
13:16:07 [richardschwerdtfeger]
screenPixelToMillimeterX, screenPixelToMillimeterY in SVG2
13:16:56 [richardschwerdtfeger]
krit: Do we want to continue having these functions that simply return constants? They are really not needed any more.
13:17:16 [richardschwerdtfeger]
krit: can we at least deprecate them?
13:17:50 [richardschwerdtfeger]
ed: So, these contants are easy to get from other APIs or this is basically what the web does more or less
13:17:59 [richardschwerdtfeger]
ed: Can we get these values from CSS?
13:18:10 [richardschwerdtfeger]
krit: No, I don’t think so
13:18:29 [richardschwerdtfeger]
ed: I have not seen these used so I am not that concerned. I think we should deprecate them.
13:18:54 [richardschwerdtfeger]
ed: hearing no objections to deprecate them.
13:19:25 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Action: Dirk deprecate Deprecate pixelUnitToMillimeterX, pixelUnitToMillimeterY, screenPixelToMillimeterX, screenPixelToMillimeterY in the spec.
13:19:26 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-3623 - Deprecate deprecate pixelunittomillimeterx, pixelunittomillimetery, screenpixeltomillimeterx, screenpixeltomillimetery in the spec. [on Dirk Schulze - due 2014-05-15].
13:19:57 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Topic: Should we use unrestricted double for SVGLength, SVGNumber, SVGAngle and
13:19:58 [richardschwerdtfeger]
all attributes?
13:20:24 [richardschwerdtfeger]
krit: You can pass none.
13:20:35 [richardschwerdtfeger]
krit: should we restict the API or should we make it unrestricted?
13:21:07 [richardschwerdtfeger]
krit: they will all have unrstricted doubles
13:21:19 [richardschwerdtfeger]
krit: It just makes sense to make it unrestricted.
13:21:39 [richardschwerdtfeger]
ed: ok let’s do that
13:22:04 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Topic: All presentation attributes (even the new presentation attributes like
13:22:04 [richardschwerdtfeger]
width and height) should allow global CSS keywords like inherit and
13:22:05 [richardschwerdtfeger]
13:22:12 [ed]
s/ok let’s do that/ok let’s postpone the discussion until heycam is present/
13:22:33 [richardschwerdtfeger]
krit: I think we should not add new cases and we should follow CSS as much as possible.
13:22:45 [richardschwerdtfeger]
ed: this does post some consistency issues
13:23:12 [richardschwerdtfeger]
ed: … svglength for example. So, that is the reason for not allowing it for the elements that are presentation attributes
13:24:32 [richardschwerdtfeger]
nikos: the object models would produce computed styles. This is something we decided 2 years ago.
13:24:33 [ed]
<g transform="inherit"> ... and then gElm.baseVal.transform.getItem(0), what does it return?
13:25:17 [richardschwerdtfeger]
ed: the base values would be computed?
13:25:26 [richardschwerdtfeger]
nikos: you would get the computed styles
13:25:40 [richardschwerdtfeger]
nikos: we should move to the CSS object model where possible
13:25:58 [richardschwerdtfeger]
ed: you could use the get attributes if you wanted to get whatever was written
13:26:01 [richardschwerdtfeger]
ed: that makes sense
13:26:17 [richardschwerdtfeger]
ed: that would mean that I would go change the spec.
13:26:30 [richardschwerdtfeger]
nikos: you would not disallow the new units from CSS
13:27:00 [richardschwerdtfeger]
nikos: you are are nto restricting it to the character message length
13:27:36 [richardschwerdtfeger]
action: ed modify the sentence in the spec. to allow the globall css keywords like inherit and initial
13:27:36 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-3624 - Modify the sentence in the spec. to allow the globall css keywords like inherit and initial [on Erik Dahlström - due 2014-05-15].
13:28:12 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Topic: Event attributes on graphics and container elements why not SVGElement
13:28:13 [richardschwerdtfeger]
in general, just like HTMLElement does?
13:28:26 [richardschwerdtfeger]
nikos: It would make sense to make it for SVG elements in general
13:28:40 [richardschwerdtfeger]
nikos: script elements, style elements, etc.
13:28:52 [richardschwerdtfeger]
ed: the scripting chapter in the spec.?
13:29:02 [richardschwerdtfeger]
ed: it is out of date and should be updated.
13:29:20 [richardschwerdtfeger]
ed: these are more or less the standard events
13:30:04 [richardschwerdtfeger]
nikos: we just map all event attributes to svg elements as well.
13:30:11 [richardschwerdtfeger]
ed: should be fine.
13:31:23 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Action: ed Event attributes on graphics and container elements added to SVGElement just like HTMLElement does
13:31:23 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-3625 - Event attributes on graphics and container elements added to svgelement just like htmlelement does [on Erik Dahlström - due 2014-05-15].
13:31:37 [richardschwerdtfeger]
ed: the next call is May 22
13:31:48 [richardschwerdtfeger]
nikos: I may not be available as well
13:31:53 [richardschwerdtfeger]
nikos: my regrets
13:32:15 [richardschwerdtfeger]
ed: meeting adjouned
13:32:16 [Zakim]
13:32:17 [Zakim]
13:32:17 [Zakim]
13:32:19 [Zakim]
13:32:19 [richardschwerdtfeger]
zakim, bye
13:32:19 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were cabanier, [IPcaller], Rich_Schwerdtfeger, ed, krit, stakagi, nikos
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13:32:35 [richardschwerdtfeger]
RRSAGent, make log public
13:32:44 [nikos]
s/nikos: my regrets/krit: my regrets
13:32:45 [richardschwerdtfeger]
RRSAgent, make minutes
13:32:45 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate richardschwerdtfeger
13:32:56 [nikos]
wonder if I got that in in time ;)
13:33:42 [richardschwerdtfeger]
RRSAgent, make minutes
13:33:42 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate richardschwerdtfeger
13:36:03 [richardschwerdtfeger]
@krit: I added it to the post to the list of the mintues.
13:36:36 [krit]
richardschwerdtfeger: thanks
13:36:41 [richardschwerdtfeger]
14:01:00 [richardschwerdtfeger]
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