15:39:00 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #coga
15:39:00 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/05/05-coga-irc
15:40:00 <Lisa_Seeman> regrets: Liddy Nevile, Deborah Dahl, Deborah Rue
15:40:39 <Lisa_Seeman> Chair:Lisa_Seeman
15:40:46 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda: this
15:40:53 <Lisa_Seeman>   agenda+ preview agenda
15:40:58 <Lisa_Seeman>  agenda+ set scribe
15:41:04 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+ user groups, finding good practice and identifying bad practice
15:41:15 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+ housekeeping : User group research,  technology reviews, mixing up groups, setting and reviewing actions
15:41:24 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+ CSS review questions, how to do a technology review.
15:41:30 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+ functional approach to inclusion
15:41:36 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+ user group findings:  dyslexia, other
15:41:46 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+ be done
15:42:53 <Lisa_Seeman> trackbot, status
15:43:28 <Lisa_Seeman> ACTION: Tim Accessibility review
15:43:28 <trackbot> Error finding 'Tim'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/track/users>.
15:44:17 <Lisa_Seeman> ACTION: Tim PTSD review
15:44:17 <trackbot> Error finding 'Tim'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/track/users>.
15:46:58 <Lisa_Seeman> ACTION: Suzanne  Review of APPL
15:46:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1 -  review of appl [on Suzanne Taylor - due 2014-05-12].
15:47:37 <Lisa_Seeman> ACTION: Kinshuk Review of  adaptivity
15:47:37 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2 - Review of  adaptivity [on Dr Kinshuk - due 2014-05-12].
15:55:04 <Zakim> WAI_CogTF()12:00PM has now started
15:55:06 <KateDeibel> KateDeibel has joined #coga
15:55:11 <Zakim> +??P3
15:55:39 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, ??P3 is Lisa_Seeman
15:55:39 <Zakim> +Lisa_Seeman; got it
15:56:58 <Zakim> +Katie_Haritos-Shea
15:57:34 <Zakim> + +1.508.856.aaaa
15:57:58 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, +1.508.856.aaaa is JohnR
15:57:58 <Zakim> +JohnR; got it
15:58:18 <JohnRochford> JohnRochford has joined #coga
15:58:21 <Ryladog> Ryladog has joined #coga
15:58:53 <Zakim> +??P27
15:58:58 <Zakim> +??P25
15:59:13 <Lisa_Seeman> ACTION: Katie gettign the ageing subgroup ready for review
15:59:13 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3 - Gettign the ageing subgroup ready for review [on Katie Haritos-Shea - due 2014-05-12].
15:59:18 <Zakim> + +1.780.934.aabb
15:59:56 <Kinshuk> Kinshuk has joined #coga
16:00:15 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, ??P25 is KateD
16:00:15 <Zakim> +KateD; got it
16:00:22 <SuzanneT> SuzanneT has joined #coga
16:00:31 <MichaelC> zakim, aabb is Kinshuk
16:00:31 <Zakim> +Kinshuk; got it
16:00:45 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, +1.780.934.aabb is Kinshuk
16:00:45 <Zakim> sorry, Lisa_Seeman, I do not recognize a party named '+1.780.934.aabb'
16:00:51 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, 1.780.934.aabb is Kinshuk
16:00:51 <Zakim> sorry, Lisa_Seeman, I do not recognize a party named '1.780.934.aabb'
16:00:58 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, ++1.780.934.aabb is Kinshuk
16:00:58 <Zakim> sorry, Lisa_Seeman, I do not recognize a party named '++1.780.934.aabb'
16:01:18 <MichaelC> scribe: MichaelC
16:01:27 <MichaelC> agenda?
16:01:34 <MichaelC> zakim, close item 2
16:01:34 <Zakim> agendum 2, set scribe, closed
16:01:34 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:01:34 <Zakim> 1. preview agenda [from Lisa_Seeman]
16:01:52 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
16:01:52 <Zakim> agendum 1. "preview agenda" taken up [from Lisa_Seeman]
16:01:53 <MichaelC> zakim, close item 8
16:01:53 <Zakim> agendum 8, be done, closed
16:01:54 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:01:54 <Zakim> 1. preview agenda [from Lisa_Seeman]
16:02:16 <MichaelC> ls: moving user groups to later in the agenda
16:02:33 <MichaelC> have spent time on it, not finished but need to turn attention to other stuff as well
16:02:40 <Zakim> +??P0
16:02:45 <janina> zakim, ??P0 is me
16:02:45 <Zakim> +janina; got it
16:03:13 <MichaelC> still do want to look at things through the user group lens
16:03:46 <MichaelC> also start thinking about good practice and bad practice for various user groups
16:04:01 <Zakim> +??P1
16:04:06 <MichaelC> even with specific solutions e.g., meta tags, need to know good practices
16:04:28 <slee> Hello all
16:04:40 <Zakim> +Suzanne_Taylor
16:04:49 <MichaelC> ack me
16:05:16 <MichaelC> please speak up if needed during the call e.g., noise distractions etc.
16:05:21 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P1 is Steve_Lee
16:05:21 <Zakim> +Steve_Lee; got it
16:05:34 <MichaelC> zakim, mute me
16:05:34 <Zakim> Michael_Cooper should now be muted
16:05:50 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
16:05:50 <Zakim> agendum 3. "user groups, finding good practice and identifying bad practice" taken up [from Lisa_Seeman]
16:06:52 <MichaelC> ls: what to start to figure out what makes a good practice
16:07:12 <MichaelC> what works and what doesn´t, e.g,. low contrast is confusing
16:07:42 <MichaelC> identify what challenges make an impairment more difficult
16:07:44 <MichaelC> helps with developing techniques
16:08:08 <Zakim> +Joseph_O´Conno
16:08:18 <MichaelC> the more we understand about why, the more we can abstract
16:08:45 <MichaelC> zakim, Joseph is Joseph_O´Connor
16:08:45 <Zakim> +Joseph_O´Connor; got it
16:09:06 <MichaelC> jo: sent message with idea to create a secondary interface
16:09:18 <MichaelC> available with reference from primary interface
16:09:24 <MichaelC> to lower threshold for cognitive comprehension
16:09:54 <MichaelC> e.g., someone had a successful v1 app because it was simple, v2 was more complex and the v1 users had trouble with it
16:10:00 <Zakim> +Suzann_Keohane
16:11:09 <MichaelC> ls: what increases cognitive load?
16:11:16 <MichaelC> s/increases/decreases/
16:11:30 <MichaelC> jo: targets on buttons, fewer items per page
16:11:58 <Susann_Keohane> Susann_Keohane has joined #coga
16:12:17 <Zakim> +John_Foliot
16:12:42 <MichaelC> ls: a flat-screen design going around makes it harder to identify regions
16:12:47 <JF> JF has joined #coga
16:13:03 <Zakim> +Tim_Boland
16:13:30 <MichaelC> so a guideline might be that it be visually clear what controls go together
16:13:39 <MichaelC> and how sections of page relate together
16:13:51 <MichaelC> and that boundaries between sections are visible so it´s clear which one you´re clicking on
16:13:59 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #coga
16:14:15 <MichaelC> s/guideline/design practice/
16:14:28 <SuzanneT> https://creativemarket.com/blog/2013/07/31/12-creative-examples-of-flat-web-design
16:14:29 <JohnRochford> q
16:15:13 <MichaelC> jr: there isn´t much emperical research about what works
16:15:20 <MichaelC> so we have to guess about solutions
16:15:25 <MichaelC> ack me
16:15:35 <SuzanneT> q+
16:15:38 <MichaelC> jo: clearly user testing is required
16:16:13 <MichaelC> in my example above, it was real-world, and developer went back to user group to improve
16:16:26 <Tim> Tim has joined #coga
16:16:50 <MichaelC> mc: in this case, post hoc user testing
16:16:50 <MichaelC> ack s
16:16:51 <KateDeibel> q+
16:17:12 <MichaelC> st: before user testing, we need to have a clear sense of the propose techniques
16:17:23 <MichaelC> in some other work I´m in, there are good ideas but not clearly defined
16:17:44 <MichaelC> which can make it hard to get a reliable result in user testing
16:18:05 <Lisa_Seeman> q?
16:18:09 <MichaelC> ack k
16:18:22 <SuzanneT> q-
16:18:43 <MichaelC> kd: about anecdotal data
16:19:07 <MichaelC> be careful of promulgating ¨urban legends¨ about e.g., reading
16:19:49 <MichaelC> if we´re making a best guess about a group, be careful that we don´t speak with more authority than we have
16:19:59 <MichaelC> have seen that some user testing labs have the same people testing all the time
16:20:18 <MichaelC> thereby end up with optimizing for that particular set
16:20:28 <MichaelC> ls: we do need to change that
16:20:34 <MichaelC> get to the most general population we can
16:20:39 <Lisa_Seeman> q?
16:20:42 <MichaelC> impacts our choice of user groups in this phase
16:20:58 <MichaelC> some steps:
16:21:20 <MichaelC> identify some bad practices users encounter
16:21:32 <MichaelC> using ourselves and others
16:22:20 <MichaelC> e.g., I´ve worked with difficult sites, and try using them and take notes about why I struggle
16:22:46 <MichaelC> we also should collect the anecdotal evidence that´s out there
16:22:52 <MichaelC> but be very conscious of its provenance
16:23:15 <MichaelC> don´t want to waste good research, but don´t build up a house of cards
16:25:14 <MichaelC> what might be a good way to collect this?
16:25:16 <Lisa_Seeman> q?
16:25:17 <MichaelC> mc: suggest use wiki
16:26:04 <MichaelC> maybe a page for ¨Good and Bad Practices¨
16:26:12 <MichaelC> just put down ideas, maybe sorted by user groups
16:26:18 <MichaelC> and indications of provenance
16:27:02 <MichaelC> sort through it all later
16:27:43 <MichaelC> ls: how about actions?
16:27:50 <MichaelC> mc: if specific actions
16:28:03 <MichaelC> but still wiki seems place to ultimately collect the info
16:28:35 <MichaelC> ls: ok, I can set up a page. If people need help posting to wiki, can send to mailing list
16:28:41 <Ryladog> Ryladog has joined #coga
16:28:44 <MichaelC> JohnR and @@ agreeing to help get that stuff migrated to wiki
16:28:52 <Lisa_Seeman> action: JohnRochfor and Kinshuk to maintain page on good and bad practice
16:28:52 <trackbot> Error finding 'JohnRochfor'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/track/users>.
16:29:01 <MichaelC> s/@@Kinshuk
16:29:26 <MichaelC> action: rochford to maintain page on good and bad practice
16:29:26 <trackbot> Created ACTION-4 - Maintain page on good and bad practice [on John Rochford - due 2014-05-12].
16:29:32 <MichaelC> action: kinshuk to maintain page on good and bad practice
16:29:32 <trackbot> Created ACTION-5 - Maintain page on good and bad practice [on Dr Kinshuk - due 2014-05-12].
16:29:38 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:29:54 <MichaelC> issue: Good and Bad practices for user groups
16:29:54 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-1 - Good and bad practices for user groups.  Please complete additional details at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/track/issues/1/edit>.
16:30:04 <MichaelC> trackbot, associate action-7 with issue-1
16:30:04 <trackbot> Error associating: Tracker returned unparseable XML.  Please mail <sysreq@w3.org> with details about what happened.
16:30:07 <MichaelC> trackbot, associate action-8 with issue-1
16:30:07 <trackbot> Error associating: Tracker returned unparseable XML.  Please mail <sysreq@w3.org> with details about what happened.
16:31:28 <MichaelC> kd: will look for a study I found once on good design practices for adults with intellectual disabilities
16:31:34 <MichaelC> had info about not making the UI childish
16:32:40 <JohnRochford> q+
16:32:51 <MichaelC> ack j
16:33:02 <MichaelC> jr: wiki tracks who adds what?
16:33:03 <MichaelC> mc: yes
16:33:54 <MichaelC> though in practice a little hard to sleuth
16:34:00 <MichaelC> better to add your name by contribution
16:34:17 <MichaelC> jo: ~~~~ will cause mediawiki to put in your name
16:35:09 <MichaelC> ls: anyway the page is just for brainstorming, doesn´t have to have mature info
16:35:58 <MichaelC> can people do some gathering?
16:36:10 <MichaelC> Kate, John, Lisa volunteering
16:36:34 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
16:36:34 <Zakim> agendum 4. "housekeeping : User group research,  technology reviews, mixing up groups, setting and reviewing actions" taken up [from Lisa_Seeman]
16:37:05 <MichaelC> ls: there has been a lot in the past week on gap analysis
16:37:44 <MichaelC> status on non-vocal?
16:37:45 <MichaelC> jo: not yet complete
16:38:22 <MichaelC> find my path narrowed by constraining to stuff in our scope
16:38:39 <MichaelC> have been adding stuff (with Kinshuk assistance)
16:38:53 <MichaelC> might be two weeks before I can complete this
16:39:07 <Lisa_Seeman> ACTION: Joseph  get the info on non-vocal updated in 2 weeks
16:39:07 <trackbot> Error finding 'Joseph'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/track/users>.
16:39:35 <Lisa_Seeman> ACTION: Seeman check that Josephs  get the info on non-vocal updated in 2 weeks
16:39:35 <trackbot> Created ACTION-6 - Check that josephs  get the info on non-vocal updated in 2 weeks [on Lisa Seeman - due 2014-05-12].
16:39:49 <MichaelC> action-6 due 19 may
16:39:49 <trackbot> Set action-6 Check that josephs get the info on non-vocal updated in 2 weeks due date to 2014-05-19.
16:39:57 <Zakim> -Joseph_O´Connor
16:40:26 <MichaelC> ls: what about aphasia?
16:40:42 <MichaelC> sl: that can impact beyond non-vocal
16:40:58 <MichaelC> since it´s in both comprehension and formulation
16:41:04 <Zakim> +Joseph_O´Connor
16:41:58 <MichaelC> mc: suggest we just look at things where they come up
16:42:05 <MichaelC> may later re-sort our taxonomy
16:44:00 <Lisa_Seeman> q?
16:44:02 <Ryladog> q+
16:44:49 <MichaelC> ack r
16:45:06 <MichaelC> khs: non-vocal component of dementia and aging may be further down than we´ll be exploring, as it´s usually final stages afaik
16:45:19 <MichaelC> ls: might be good to mix up the groups
16:45:32 <MichaelC> anyone else want to pitch in on non-vocal?
16:45:59 <MichaelC> ls: aging and dementia, still another week out?
16:46:01 <MichaelC> khs: yes
16:46:14 <MichaelC> ls: then want Neil to review?
16:46:23 <MichaelC> khs: think so
16:46:50 <MichaelC> ls: maybe when you hand the baton to Neil, you can then look at non-vocal?
16:46:50 <MichaelC> khs: sure
16:47:32 <MichaelC> ls: Down´s - JohnF?
16:47:44 <MichaelC> jf: plan to deliver in a week
16:48:02 <Lisa_Seeman> action: john folit to get downs ready for review
16:48:02 <trackbot> 'john' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., jfoliot, JohnRochford).
16:48:18 <Lisa_Seeman> action: jfoliot  to get downs ready for review
16:48:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-7 -  to get downs ready for review [on John Foliot - due 2014-05-12].
16:48:23 <janina> janina has joined #coga
16:49:26 <MichaelC> ls: KateD, can you look?
16:49:28 <MichaelC> kd: yes
16:49:31 <MichaelC> jr: me too
16:49:46 <MichaelC> ls: ADD/ADHD
16:52:20 <MichaelC> kd: will look here as well
16:52:57 <MichaelC> also autism
16:53:50 <JohnRochford> Kate, would you please send me your contact info?
16:54:21 <MichaelC> s/Kate, would you please send me your contact info?//
16:54:27 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
16:54:27 <Zakim> agendum 5. "CSS review questions, how to do a technology review." taken up [from Lisa_Seeman]
16:54:58 <MichaelC> tb: started to look how CSS could be used to assist or be problematic for people with cognitive disabilities
16:56:06 <Lisa_Seeman> Q?
16:57:30 <MichaelC> sent some ideas to Lisa to forward
16:57:44 <MichaelC> had some questions about where to focus
16:58:14 <MichaelC> zakim, who is noisy?
16:58:24 <Zakim> MichaelC, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Tim_Boland (33%), KateD (49%)
16:58:29 <MichaelC> zakim, mute kated
16:58:29 <Zakim> KateD should now be muted
16:58:50 <MichaelC> ls: @@
16:58:58 <KateDeibel> Sorry. Going now. Just learned of the birth of my nephew
16:59:06 <Zakim> -KateD
16:59:08 <MichaelC> tb: design patterns that can be difficult for users to understand
16:59:22 <MichaelC> style can be overridden but not easy
16:59:31 <MichaelC> authors don´t recognize issues
16:59:50 <MichaelC> q+
17:00:10 <MichaelC> ls: can review technology, but it is ubiquitous
17:00:34 <MichaelC> think more about good and bad practices that can be enabled through CSS
17:00:38 <MichaelC> q-
17:00:41 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
17:01:47 <Kinshuk> Need to log off.. another meeting starting...
17:02:00 <Zakim> -Kinshuk
17:02:04 <MichaelC> jr: think we´re too early to sort though this yet
17:03:07 <MichaelC> sk: maybe too early to finalize, but can certainly start thinking about formats
17:03:07 <Lisa_Seeman> http://www.slideshare.net/ISOCIL/accessibility-and-css-lisa-seeman
17:03:25 <Lisa_Seeman> q+
17:03:32 <Lisa_Seeman> ack l
17:05:25 <MichaelC> zakim, list attendees
17:05:25 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Lisa_Seeman, Katie_Haritos-Shea, JohnR, Michael_Cooper, +1.780.934.aabb, KateD, Kinshuk, janina, Suzanne_Taylor, Steve_Lee,
17:05:28 <Zakim> ... Joseph_O´Conno, Joseph_O´Connor, Suzann_Keohane, John_Foliot, Tim_Boland, Rich_Schwerdtfeger
17:05:31 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
17:05:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/05-coga-minutes.html MichaelC
17:05:50 <MichaelC> ack me
17:06:02 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
17:06:36 <JF> must drop now for another call - bye all
17:06:42 <Zakim> -John_Foliot
17:07:18 <Zakim> -JohnR
17:07:20 <Zakim> -Suzanne_Taylor
17:07:23 <Zakim> -Suzann_Keohane
17:07:26 <Zakim> -Tim_Boland
17:07:55 <Lisa_Seeman>  rrsagent, make logs public
17:08:03 <Lisa_Seeman> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:08:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/05-coga-minutes.html Lisa_Seeman
17:08:10 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, please part
17:08:10 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Lisa_Seeman, Katie_Haritos-Shea, JohnR, Michael_Cooper, +1.780.934.aabb, KateD, Kinshuk, janina, Suzanne_Taylor, Steve_Lee,
17:08:10 <Zakim> Zakim has left #coga
17:08:13 <Zakim> ... Joseph_O´Conno, Joseph_O´Connor, Suzann_Keohane, John_Foliot, Tim_Boland, Rich_Schwerdtfeger
17:08:17 <Lisa_Seeman> rrsagent, please part
17:08:17 <RRSAgent> I see 12 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/05-coga-actions.rdf :
17:08:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Tim Accessibility review [1]
17:08:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/05-coga-irc#T15-43-28
17:08:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Tim PTSD review [2]
17:08:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/05-coga-irc#T15-44-17
17:08:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Suzanne  Review of APPL [3]
17:08:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/05-coga-irc#T15-46-58
17:08:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Kinshuk Review of  adaptivity [4]
17:08:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/05-coga-irc#T15-47-37
17:08:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Katie gettign the ageing subgroup ready for review [5]
17:08:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/05-coga-irc#T15-59-13
17:08:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: JohnRochfor and Kinshuk to maintain page on good and bad practice [6]
17:08:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/05-coga-irc#T16-28-52
17:08:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: rochford to maintain page on good and bad practice [7]
17:08:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/05-coga-irc#T16-29-26
17:08:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: kinshuk to maintain page on good and bad practice [8]
17:08:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/05-coga-irc#T16-29-32
17:08:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Joseph  get the info on non-vocal updated in 2 weeks [9]
17:08:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/05-coga-irc#T16-39-07
17:08:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Seeman check that Josephs  get the info on non-vocal updated in 2 weeks [10]
17:08:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/05-coga-irc#T16-39-35
17:08:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: john folit to get downs ready for review [11]
17:08:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/05-coga-irc#T16-48-02
17:08:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jfoliot  to get downs ready for review [12]
17:08:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/05/05-coga-irc#T16-48-18
17:08:45 <Susann_Keohane> Susann_Keohane has left #coga