IRC log of html-a11y on 2014-04-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:51:20 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/04/17-html-a11y-irc
14:51:22 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:51:24 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 2119
14:51:24 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 51 minutes ago
14:51:25 [trackbot]
Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:51:25 [trackbot]
Date: 17 April 2014
14:52:12 [janina]
agenda?
14:52:21 [janina]
zakim, clear agenda
14:52:21 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
14:52:26 [janina]
Meeting: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference
14:52:26 [janina]
Chair: Janina
14:52:26 [janina]
agenda+ Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
14:52:29 [janina]
agenda+ Upcoming Heartbeat Publications
14:52:32 [janina]
agenda+ Alt Guidance & Next Steps [See Below]
14:52:34 [janina]
agenda+ Longdesc CfC [See Below]
14:52:37 [janina]
agenda+ Canvas 2D Status & Next Steps [See Below]
14:52:39 [janina]
agenda+ Bug Triage [see below]
14:52:42 [janina]
agenda+ Table Summary Issues Redux
14:52:44 [janina]
agenda+ Our HTML 5.1 Objectives [See Below]
14:52:47 [janina]
agenda+ Other Business
14:52:49 [janina]
agenda+ Identify Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
14:52:52 [janina]
agenda+ be done
14:55:55 [Zakim]
WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has now started
14:56:02 [Zakim]
+??P10
14:56:07 [janina]
zakim, ??P10 is me
14:56:07 [Zakim]
+janina; got it
14:56:19 [janina]
zakim, take up item 1
14:56:19 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List" taken up [from janina]
14:58:53 [Zakim]
+Mark_Sadecki
14:59:50 [paulc]
paulc has joined #html-a11y
14:59:59 [paulc]
zakim, what is the code?
14:59:59 [Zakim]
the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), paulc
15:01:24 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:02:16 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
15:02:20 [Judy]
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15:02:35 [aardrian]
aardrian has joined #html-a11y
15:02:45 [LJWatson]
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15:03:08 [LJWatson]
zakim, [IPCaller}
15:03:08 [Zakim]
I don't understand '[IPCaller}', LJWatson
15:03:19 [LJWatson]
zakim, [IPCaller] is LJWatson
15:03:19 [Zakim]
+LJWatson; got it
15:03:21 [Zakim]
+Adrian_Roselli
15:03:45 [janina]
zakim, who's on the phone?
15:03:45 [Zakim]
On the phone I see janina, Mark_Sadecki, LJWatson, [Microsoft], Adrian_Roselli
15:04:01 [MarkS]
zakim, [Microsoft] is PaulC
15:04:03 [Zakim]
+PaulC; got it
15:04:57 [MarkS]
scribe: Mark Sadecki
15:05:06 [MarkS]
scribeNick: MarkS
15:05:10 [MarkS]
zakim, take up next item
15:05:10 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Upcoming Heartbeat Publications" taken up [from janina]
15:05:41 [MarkS]
JS: Paul? PF is still working on changing our procedure
15:06:22 [MarkS]
PC: going forward with DOM4. Chairs have draft from the editor. Directors call on May 5th.
15:07:12 [Zakim]
+Cynthia_Shelly
15:07:15 [MarkS]
...Canvas has an Editor's Draft that is ready to go back to LC. Now we need to prepare that document for publication.
15:07:24 [MarkS]
...Will require a WG CfC
15:07:49 [Zakim]
+Judy
15:08:01 [MarkS]
...nothing definitive yet, but HTML5 will have a heartbeat coming up once robin wraps up DOM4
15:08:09 [MarkS]
...need to get polyglot into CR
15:08:39 [MarkS]
...extension specs pending: JSON form submission has last minute breaking comments
15:09:06 [plh]
plh has joined #html-a11y
15:09:36 [MarkS]
...won't be batched into a big synchronized effort anymore. will resume a more natural schedule
15:10:11 [MarkS]
JS: PF needs to make progress on HTML mappings doc and steve's HTML ARIA mappings guide as well.
15:10:48 [MarkS]
...need to improve the front matter on that document as well. there could possibly be a name change since this is to become one of a series of related documents
15:11:12 [Zakim]
+Philippe
15:11:19 [MarkS]
zakim, take up next item
15:11:19 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "Bug Triage" taken up [from see below]
15:11:47 [MarkS]
agenda?
15:11:59 [MarkS]
zakim, take up item 3
15:11:59 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Alt Guidance & Next Steps" taken up [from See Below via janina]
15:12:35 [MarkS]
JS: I think we are done here. There was a bug filed by WAI to reference a pointer. Accepted and already in the spec.
15:12:41 [MarkS]
PLH: What is happening to the original?
15:12:54 [MarkS]
JS: Parked as a note
15:13:08 [MarkS]
s/Parked/plan is for it to be parked
15:13:19 [MarkS]
PC: Charles as an action to run a CfC
15:13:45 [MarkS]
...recommend the old material is published as a WG Note
15:13:59 [MarkS]
...could put in SoTD the list of bugs/comments
15:14:13 [MarkS]
...SteveF did a great job of tracking this work
15:15:07 [MarkS]
...as soon as you run the CfC in the TF, we will run it in the WG.
15:15:33 [MarkS]
MS: as Team Contact for that document, i would be handling the publication as a Note
15:15:38 [MarkS]
zakim, take up item 4
15:15:38 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Longdesc CfC" taken up [from See Below via janina]
15:16:05 [MarkS]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2014Apr/0036.html CR Exit CfC
15:16:15 [MarkS]
JS: CfC closes tomorrow
15:17:28 [MarkS]
...I think 4 week CR period is approach
15:17:41 [MarkS]
s/approach/appropriate
15:18:12 [MarkS]
PC: Can i ask Mark that he and PLH coordinate on all the Director's calls we have coming up?
15:18:27 [MarkS]
...would like to do Longdesc and one of the others at the same time
15:18:37 [MarkS]
MS: I can do that
15:19:04 [MarkS]
PC: longdesc and polyglot, both going into CR should be doable and advantageous for RAlph
15:19:16 [MarkS]
JB: we can figure this out Team side
15:19:24 [MarkS]
zakim, take up take up item 5
15:19:24 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'take up take up item 5', MarkS
15:19:31 [MarkS]
zakim, take up item 5
15:19:31 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Canvas 2D Status & Next Steps" taken up [from See Below via janina]
15:20:47 [janina]
ack p
15:20:54 [MarkS]
MS: @@
15:21:06 [MarkS]
PLH: on Monday, the group discussed MouseEvent handling
15:21:47 [MarkS]
...as it was in the spec and in WHAT WG spec it would be difficult to handle MouseEvents, dispatching the events
15:22:31 [MarkS]
...we discussed alternatives and agreed that not dispatching the event, directing it to the canvas with a event.region specified, would allow the developer to handle the event any way they wanted.
15:22:48 [MarkS]
...wanted to document that this is different from WHAT WG approach
15:22:59 [MarkS]
...this approach is much easier.
15:23:27 [MarkS]
...should be a note in there drawing attention to this
15:23:37 [MarkS]
MS: I will follow up with editors that the note is included.
15:23:56 [MarkS]
zakim, take up item 6
15:23:56 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "Bug Triage" taken up [from see below via janina]
15:24:13 [LJWatson]
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24642
15:24:15 [MarkS]
LW: two bugs we would like input from the TF on
15:24:25 [LJWatson]
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24679
15:24:43 [MarkS]
...disallowing role of presentation on a table that has a border of 1
15:25:10 [MarkS]
...another on presentation table heuristics
15:25:30 [MarkS]
JS: presentation as a name will be changing...
15:25:44 [MarkS]
...nobody on today's call that has any expertise in this
15:25:54 [MarkS]
LW: recommend anyone?
15:26:09 [MarkS]
JS: I will ask the ARIA sub team of PF to address these bugs
15:26:33 [MarkS]
s/these bugs/this bug
15:26:56 [MarkS]
LW: second bug to improve presentation table heuristics.
15:27:16 [MarkS]
JS: I think we originally agreed on this at a TPAC 6 years ago. Gez Lemon and Joshue i think
15:27:49 [MarkS]
LW: This was recently filed, 2014. Steve has been involved as well
15:28:01 [MarkS]
...I will ping Steve on this then.
15:28:35 [LJWatson]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Current_Bug_Triage_Issues
15:28:46 [MarkS]
...as we were going through old 5.0 bugs. a handful were assigned to TF members to look into them more closely. there is a slight possibility these could end up back on HTML5
15:28:52 [MarkS]
...we need to follow up on these
15:29:44 [MarkS]
CS: I have been sick unfortunately, but will coordinate with chaals so we can work through these.
15:29:54 [MarkS]
JS: I will also bring it to PF.
15:30:19 [MarkS]
JB: Media sub team has a bunch
15:30:33 [MarkS]
MS: I have added them to the media sub team agenda for next meeting
15:30:58 [MarkS]
LW: Mark and I have also noted a decrease in bug triage participation and are looking for more members again
15:30:58 [Judy]
q+
15:31:05 [janina]
q?
15:31:07 [MarkS]
ack j
15:31:18 [MarkS]
JB: anyone interested in what is involved? need to know more?
15:31:24 [Judy]
zakim, who's on the call?
15:31:24 [Zakim]
On the phone I see janina, Mark_Sadecki, LJWatson, PaulC, Adrian_Roselli, Cynthia_Shelly, Judy, Philippe
15:31:38 [MarkS]
JB: the media sub team also has this issue
15:31:55 [MarkS]
JS: We do. The media sub team is also looking for new members.
15:32:19 [MarkS]
JB: we can brainstorm off line then.
15:32:36 [MarkS]
LW: Paul, what about putting an email to the HTML WG?
15:32:46 [MarkS]
PC: yes, send out a meeting notification to the WG list
15:32:55 [MarkS]
JS: to the admin list?
15:32:57 [MarkS]
PC: yes
15:33:28 [MarkS]
zakim, take up next item
15:33:28 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Longdesc CfC" taken up [from See Below]
15:33:32 [MarkS]
close item 4
15:33:38 [MarkS]
zakim, close item 5
15:33:38 [Zakim]
agendum 5, Canvas 2D Status & Next Steps, closed
15:33:39 [Zakim]
I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:33:39 [Zakim]
3. Alt Guidance & Next Steps [from See Below via janina]
15:33:43 [MarkS]
zakim, close item 3
15:33:43 [Zakim]
agendum 3, Alt Guidance & Next Steps, closed
15:33:44 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:33:44 [Zakim]
7. Table Summary Issues Redux [from janina]
15:33:53 [MarkS]
zakim, take up next item
15:33:53 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "Table Summary Issues Redux" taken up [from janina]
15:34:05 [MarkS]
JS: This was brought up after CSUN
15:34:10 [MarkS]
q+
15:36:10 [MarkS]
MS: ##
15:36:23 [MarkS]
JS: There will be work on this in ARIA 1.1 as well
15:36:41 [MarkS]
ack me
15:36:42 [janina]
ack m
15:36:48 [MarkS]
zakim, take up next item
15:36:49 [Zakim]
agendum 8. "Our HTML 5.1 Objectives" taken up [from See Below]
15:37:19 [MarkS]
JS: while we are wrapping up HTML 5.0 our due diligence continues through to 5.1.
15:37:30 [MarkS]
...the list of remaining items is getting shorter.
15:38:01 [MarkS]
...5.1 is scheduled to go to LC Q4 this year or even sooner. We need to get back to 5.1 objectives.
15:38:22 [MarkS]
...need to focus and prioritize our work. Media sub group has taken up work again.
15:38:28 [plh]
q+
15:38:57 [MarkS]
...we are working on the User Requirements for Accessible Media.
15:39:17 [MarkS]
...working on resources UA can use to test against
15:39:46 [MarkS]
...chaals is interested in a better approach for <command>
15:40:59 [MarkS]
...we can use implementations to prioritize
15:41:17 [MarkS]
...and those features which would really benefit accessibility
15:41:39 [janina]
q?
15:41:48 [aardrian]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/51wishlist
15:41:56 [MarkS]
ack plh
15:41:59 [janina]
ack p
15:42:51 [MarkS]
PLH: RE moving the date of 5.1 sooner. That is not true. what was discussed at F2F was that the next update to rec in 2016 would be changed. We would move to annual updates, reducing expectations for dot releases
15:43:14 [MarkS]
...you would just need to prioritize what you want at the end of 2015 and then again at the end of 2016, etc
15:44:02 [MarkS]
JS: it was a goal of PF to align ARIA 1.1 with HTML 5.1 based on the timelines in 2014, so that the gold standard for accessibility would be HTML 5.1 and ARIA 1.1 etc.
15:44:20 [MarkS]
PLH: was it just the names of the specs? or the dates?
15:44:32 [MarkS]
JS: the dates
15:44:47 [MarkS]
PLH: ok so you would need to align with 5.2 in that case.
15:44:58 [MarkS]
PC: these timelines are very loose at this point.
15:46:13 [MarkS]
JS: there has been some frustration on the ARIA side of things. ARIA was a reaction to gaps in HTML 4. a lot of it was retrospective. ARIA 1.0 was very reparative in nature. 1.1 will be more proactive. and leverage testing that goes along with w3c spec.
15:46:49 [MarkS]
...the goal will remain that some convergence of dates exist.
15:47:13 [janina]
q?
15:47:17 [MarkS]
...not so much how HTML changes their pub dates, just that these two (or more) specs align well
15:47:58 [MarkS]
PLH: on the wish list, there are things like payment on it. and we weren't sure how that related to HTML 5.1. I understand this is a loose list.
15:48:05 [plh]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/51wishlist
15:48:35 [MarkS]
...i think more work needs to happen on the wish list.
15:49:07 [MarkS]
PLH: we may need more use cases for some of these. like emotion mark up.
15:49:16 [MarkS]
JB: I think you could brainstorm with her.
15:49:25 [MarkS]
...eml would be extremely valuable
15:49:49 [MarkS]
JS: I will bring that up in the cognitive call
15:50:57 [MarkS]
JS: Would also like to stay informed regarding any changes to HTML publishing dates/goals
15:51:19 [MarkS]
PLH: there is still support for extension specs as well.
15:52:12 [MarkS]
JS: transcript was never taken up. we had two proposals on the table. ARIA is in a better position to help with that.
15:52:15 [MarkS]
MS: We can revisit this in Media sub group
15:52:57 [MarkS]
PC: were there actual specs developed or just email?
15:53:21 [MarkS]
JS: there were some formal proposals and some preliminary spec drafts I believe
15:53:46 [MarkS]
...we were waiting to see what shakes out
15:54:13 [MarkS]
PC: might get better interop by pushing these along
15:54:54 [MarkS]
JS: since we are talking media, there is some work being done in IndieUI for media control.
15:54:55 [Zakim]
-Judy
15:55:31 [janina]
q?
15:55:53 [MarkS]
PC: going back to heartbeats
15:55:59 [MarkS]
Topic: Heartbeats
15:56:54 [MarkS]
PC: HTML5 Heartbeat to be published the same week as canvas. Perhaps we could schedule both for Thursday May 1. We'll see how Robin responds. He is on vacation next week. So an HTML5 heartbeat in 12-14 days
15:57:10 [MarkS]
zakim, take up next item
15:57:10 [Zakim]
agendum 9. "Other Business" taken up [from janina]
15:57:24 [paulc]
Regrets from Paul for two weeks - on vacation Apr 19-May 3
15:57:32 [MarkS]
JS: any volunteers for scribe next week?
15:57:55 [Zakim]
-LJWatson
15:57:56 [Zakim]
-Philippe
15:57:59 [MarkS]
[adjourned]
15:58:00 [Zakim]
-Adrian_Roselli
15:58:02 [Zakim]
-janina
15:58:04 [aardrian]
aardrian has joined #html-a11y
15:58:06 [Zakim]
-Cynthia_Shelly
15:58:08 [aardrian]
aardrian has left #html-a11y
15:58:09 [Zakim]
-PaulC
15:59:22 [MarkS]
s/@@/canvas sub-group had its final meeting on monday and worked through the remaining issues for hit regions and drawfocusifneeded. Agreed that the spec was ready to return to LC. The HTML chairs have been notified of this.
16:01:15 [MarkS]
s/##/we closed the original bug that sparked this conversation RE table summary. we have an action to open new bug to improve accessible table examples in HTML5 spec against 5.1. editorial in nature, hope it can be ported back to 5.0. details and summary will be removed from html 5.0 and are used as examples so this will need to be cleaned up anyway. hope david macdonald can help with examples and anyone else.
16:01:24 [MarkS]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:01:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/17-html-a11y-minutes.html MarkS
16:01:28 [Zakim]
-Mark_Sadecki
16:01:30 [Zakim]
WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has ended
16:01:30 [Zakim]
Attendees were janina, Mark_Sadecki, LJWatson, Adrian_Roselli, PaulC, Cynthia_Shelly, Judy, Philippe
16:01:36 [MarkS]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:01:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/17-html-a11y-minutes.html MarkS
17:21:43 [Judy]
Judy has joined #html-a11y