IRC log of wai-wcag on 2014-04-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:54:52 [RRSAgent]
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14:54:52 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/04/08-wai-wcag-irc
14:54:54 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
14:54:54 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #wai-wcag
14:54:56 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
14:54:56 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
14:54:57 [trackbot]
Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
14:54:57 [trackbot]
Date: 08 April 2014
14:55:05 [AWK]
Chair: AWK
14:55:23 [AWK]
Regrets+ Joshue O Connor, David MacDonald
14:55:39 [Zakim]
WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has now started
14:55:40 [AWK]
Zakim, Agenda?
14:55:40 [Zakim]
I see nothing on the agenda
14:55:46 [Zakim]
+Katie_Haritos-Shea
14:55:54 [AWK]
Agenda+ Publication timeline update
14:56:10 [Zakim]
+MartijnHoutepen
14:56:14 [AWK]
Agenda+ New survey of draft responses to comments and one new technique https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/08042014survey/
14:56:31 [Ryladog]
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14:56:36 [AWK]
Agenda+ Comment and techniques status
14:56:43 [Wilco]
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14:56:52 [AWK]
Zakim, Agenda?
14:56:52 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
14:56:54 [Zakim]
1. Publication timeline update [from AWK]
14:56:54 [Zakim]
2. New survey of draft responses to comments and one new technique https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/08042014survey/ [from AWK]
14:56:54 [Zakim]
3. Comment and techniques status [from AWK]
14:57:29 [Zakim]
+ +1.703.825.aaaa
14:58:10 [Zakim]
+AWK
14:58:19 [Zakim]
+??P17
14:58:36 [AWK]
Zakim, aaaa is SAilesh
14:58:36 [Zakim]
+SAilesh; got it
14:58:49 [AWK]
Zakim, SAilesh is Sailesh
14:58:50 [Zakim]
+Sailesh; got it
14:58:50 [Wilco]
zakim, i am Martijn
14:58:50 [Zakim]
ok, Wilco, I now associate you with MartijnHoutepen
14:59:04 [kathleen]
kathleen has joined #wai-wcag
14:59:06 [MichaelC]
zakim, Martijn is Wilco_Fiers
14:59:07 [Zakim]
+Wilco_Fiers; got it
14:59:26 [AWK]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:59:26 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Katie_Haritos-Shea, Wilco_Fiers, Sailesh, AWK, Michael_Cooper
15:00:05 [Wilco]
zakim, mute me
15:00:05 [Zakim]
Wilco_Fiers should now be muted
15:00:16 [Zakim]
+Bruce_Bailey
15:00:30 [bbailey]
bbailey has joined #wai-wcag
15:00:35 [Zakim]
+kathleen
15:00:36 [marcjohlic]
marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
15:00:37 [MichaelC]
ack me
15:00:48 [AWK]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:00:48 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Katie_Haritos-Shea, Wilco_Fiers (muted), Sailesh, AWK, Michael_Cooper, Bruce_Bailey, kathleen
15:00:53 [bbailey]
zakim, i am bruce
15:00:53 [Zakim]
ok, bbailey, I now associate you with Bruce_Bailey
15:00:55 [Jon_avila]
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+Marc_Johlic
15:01:35 [MichaelC]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2014AprJun/0015.html
15:01:35 [MichaelC]
regrets: David_MacDonald
15:01:53 [AWK]
SCribe: Kathleen
15:01:54 [MichaelC]
regrets: David_MacDonald, Joshue_O_Connor
15:02:00 [Zakim]
+ +1.703.637.aabb
15:02:12 [Jon_avila]
zakim, I am aabb
15:02:12 [Zakim]
+Jon_avila; got it
15:02:13 [MichaelC]
scribe: kathleen
15:02:22 [AWK]
Scribe: Kathleen
15:02:27 [Zakim]
+Kathy_Wahlbin
15:02:28 [MichaelC]
scribe: kathleen
15:03:33 [AWK]
TOPIC: republishing WCAG supporting docs
15:03:44 [Loretta]
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15:03:59 [kathleen]
MichaelC: understanding and techniques documents are being republished as of today to add acknowledgments
15:04:17 [SPanchang]
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15:04:22 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:04:26 [AWK]
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/ now references an April 8 date
15:04:36 [Loretta]
zakim, IPaller is Loretta
15:04:36 [Zakim]
sorry, Loretta, I do not recognize a party named 'IPaller'
15:04:40 [kathleen]
MicaelC: if you notice any contributors missing please let me know
15:04:50 [Loretta]
zakim, IPCaller is Loretta
15:04:50 [Zakim]
+Loretta; got it
15:05:06 [AWK]
http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/ is also set to April 8
15:05:22 [Zakim]
+John_Foliot
15:07:40 [JF]
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15:08:11 [AWK]
Zakim, take up item 1
15:08:11 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Publication timeline update" taken up [from AWK]
15:08:33 [AWK]
New techniques due15- May
15:08:45 [AWK]
Working group finalizes last edits for inclusion8-Jul
15:09:37 [AWK]
Public review draft for comments published22-Jul
15:09:54 [AWK]
Length of comment period21
15:10:10 [MichaelC]
s/21/21 days/
15:10:26 [AWK]
Comments close12-Aug
15:10:42 [AWK]
Days to process comments14 days
15:11:06 [AWK]
WG approval of version for publication26-Aug
15:11:16 [AWK]
Publication request2-Sep
15:11:23 [AWK]
Publish9-Sep
15:12:25 [kathleen]
AWK: we have about a month to get our techniques submitted so the we as a group can work on them
15:13:24 [kathleen]
q+
15:13:25 [AWK]
Zakim, take up item 2
15:13:26 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "New survey of draft responses to comments and one new technique https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/08042014survey/" taken up [from AWK]
15:13:31 [AWK]
ack kath
15:13:55 [kathleen]
Thursday meetings?
15:14:03 [kathleen]
AWK: we need to talk about that
15:15:03 [kathleen]
Loretta: people need to come to the meetings
15:15:46 [kathleen]
Loretta: I will be there
15:15:53 [kathleen]
I will be there too.
15:16:35 [kathleen]
AWK: I am planning on being there.
15:18:16 [kathleen]
TOPIC: Comment LC-2890: Draft response
15:18:24 [bbailey]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/08042014survey/results
15:19:35 [bbailey]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20-TECHS/H27.html
15:19:41 [bbailey]
H27: Providing text and non-text alternatives for object
15:19:53 [bbailey]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20-TECHS/H53.html
15:20:03 [bbailey]
H53: Using the body of the object element
15:20:32 [kathleen]
Jon_Avila: response did not appear to complete
15:20:48 [kathleen]
I wasn't sure what the proper terminology was.
15:21:16 [kathleen]
Ryladog: I'm good.
15:22:49 [kathleen]
AW: any objection to saying content instead of body?
15:23:23 [kathleen]
Jon_Avila: do we need to say how it would be accessed by assistive tecnology?
15:24:13 [kathleen]
AWK: looking at H53's Example 1
15:24:23 [Wilco]
q+
15:24:49 [AWK]
ack wilco
15:25:08 [kathleen]
wilco: I sent this one in
15:25:30 [kathleen]
wilco: I can put this issue in to see how well it is supported
15:25:53 [kathleen]
AWK: we need data on how example 1 works
15:26:18 [kathleen]
AWK: however it is already a published technique
15:26:49 [kathleen]
AWK: I don't know what the current support is
15:27:41 [kathleen]
AWK: we will bring example 2 into H53
15:28:00 [kathleen]
AWK: for ourselves, a note to look at the accessibility support
15:28:06 [Jon_avila]
+1
15:28:16 [kathleen]
AWK: reasonable approach?
15:29:01 [Wilco]
zakim, mute me
15:29:01 [Zakim]
Wilco_Fiers should now be muted
15:30:23 [Wilco]
zakim, unmute me
15:30:23 [Zakim]
Wilco_Fiers should no longer be muted
15:30:33 [kathleen]
RESOLUTION: Accepted as amended
15:30:49 [AWK]
ACTION: Wilco to investigate accessibility support for H53
15:30:49 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-252 - Investigate accessibility support for h53 [on Wilco Fiers - due 2014-04-15].
15:30:50 [kathleen]
wilco: will look into accessibility support
15:31:06 [Zakim]
+James_Nurthen
15:31:12 [jamesn]
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15:31:21 [Wilco]
zakim, mute me
15:31:21 [Zakim]
Wilco_Fiers should now be muted
15:31:21 [kathleen]
TOPIC: Comment LC-2903: Draft response
15:31:27 [jamesn]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:31:27 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/08-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
15:31:39 [bbailey]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/08042014survey/results#x2652
15:32:17 [kathleen]
AWK: proposal to add links to Mozilla documentation for blink
15:33:37 [kathleen]
RESOLUTION: Accepted as proposed
15:34:07 [kathleen]
TOPIC: Comment LC-2892: Draft response
15:34:37 [bbailey]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/08042014survey/results#x2663
15:34:52 [AWK]
Marc's suggestion: F76: Failure of Success Criterion 3.2.2 due to not providing change of context instructions prior to a control that would cause a change of context
15:35:34 [Jon_avila]
yes, I believe so.
15:36:02 [bbailey]
current: F76: Failure of Success Criterion 3.2.2 due to providing instruction material about the change of context by change of setting in a user interface element at a location that users may bypass
15:36:08 [bbailey]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20-TECHS/F76.html
15:36:09 [kathleen]
Ryladog: I like it (the proposed new title)
15:37:51 [Jon_avila]
q+
15:38:04 [AWK]
ack jon
15:38:16 [kathleen]
Loretta: not a clearly written failure
15:39:08 [bbailey]
+bb to say title should use same phrasing as sc
15:39:21 [AWK]
ack bb
15:39:28 [bbailey]
advised of the behavior before using the componen
15:39:56 [JF]
s/componen/component
15:40:54 [kathleen]
AWK: due to not advising the user in advance of a potential change of context
15:41:11 [marcjohlic]
I like that
15:42:02 [AWK]
F76: Failure of Success Criterion 3.2.2 due to not advising users of a possible change of context prior
15:42:06 [AWK]
F76: Failure of Success Criterion 3.2.2 due to not advising users of a possible change of context
15:42:41 [Jon_avila]
q+
15:43:14 [AWK]
ack jon
15:43:55 [kathleen]
Jon_Avila: "don't do this, bit if you do ...."
15:44:26 [kathleen]
s bit/but
15:44:46 [bbailey]
q+ To say that even if failure is kind of redundant to the SC, it may still be important to document.
15:45:25 [kathleen]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140311/G13
15:45:44 [AWK]
ack B
15:45:44 [Zakim]
Bruce_Bailey, you wanted to say that even if failure is kind of redundant to the SC, it may still be important to document.
15:46:21 [Jon_avila]
q+
15:46:49 [kathleen]
q+
15:48:15 [AWK]
ack j
15:48:26 [kathleen]
AWK: do we want to leave this open and talk to Gregg about it?
15:48:52 [Jon_avila]
q-
15:48:56 [AWK]
ack kath
15:50:58 [kathleen]
q-
15:51:46 [bbailey]
q+ To ask if some of the difficulty is that we do not have another way of providing a prompt?
15:53:06 [AWK]
ack bb
15:53:09 [AWK]
ack b
15:53:10 [Zakim]
Bruce_Bailey, you wanted to ask if some of the difficulty is that we do not have another way of providing a prompt?
15:57:48 [kathleen]
extensive form control/html discussion ensues
15:59:19 [kathleen]
RESOLUTION: leave open until next week
15:59:45 [kathleen]
TOPIC: LC-2880: Draft response
16:00:16 [bbailey]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/08042014survey/results#x28800408
16:00:21 [kathleen]
Loretta: still in Proposal status
16:00:30 [kathleen]
RESOLUTION: leave open
16:00:48 [kathleen]
TOPIC: ARIA Technique: Using Aria-Invalid to Indicate An Error Field
16:00:56 [bbailey]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/08042014survey/results#xaria001
16:01:44 [kathleen]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_Aria-Invalid_to_Indicate_An_Error_Field
16:01:46 [AWK]
wiki link: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_Aria-Invalid_to_Indicate_An_Error_Field
16:01:46 [bbailey]
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16:01:46 [Zakim]
+Cooper
16:02:04 [Zakim]
-Michael_Cooper
16:03:00 [kathleen]
AWK: comments indicate poeple are confused about the what the technique is doing
16:05:01 [Loretta]
q+
16:05:06 [AWK]
q+
16:05:58 [AWK]
ack l
16:06:39 [kathleen]
Loretta: these are examples of people should not be using aria-invalid - failure?
16:07:00 [Zakim]
-John_Foliot
16:07:30 [kathleen]
Sailesh: use it when there's no other error desciption
16:08:12 [jamesn]
q+ to note that I don't see aria-invalid in Example 2 at all
16:08:13 [Kathy]
q+
16:08:17 [AWK]
ack awk
16:10:40 [MichaelC]
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MichaelC has joined #wai-wcag
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MichaelC has joined #wai-wcag
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marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
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bbailey has joined #wai-wcag
16:14:05 [jamesn]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:14:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/08-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
16:14:30 [MichaelC]
MichaelC has joined #wai-wcag
16:15:24 [kathleen]
kathleen has joined #wai-wcag
16:15:46 [kathleen]
testing
16:15:48 [jamesn]
jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
16:16:12 [kathleen]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:16:12 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/08-wai-wcag-minutes.html kathleen
16:16:15 [AWK]
scribe: kathleen
16:16:16 [marcjohlic]
marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
16:16:25 [MichaelC]
MichaelC has joined #wai-wcag
16:16:28 [jamesn]
q?
16:17:04 [bbailey]
bbailey has joined #wai-wcag
16:17:26 [kathleen]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:17:26 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Katie_Haritos-Shea, Wilco_Fiers (muted), Sailesh, AWK, Bruce_Bailey, kathleen, Marc_Johlic, Jon_avila, Kathy_Wahlbin, Loretta, James_Nurthen, Cooper
16:17:32 [kathleen]
zakim, who is on the call?
16:17:32 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Katie_Haritos-Shea, Wilco_Fiers (muted), Sailesh, AWK, Bruce_Bailey, kathleen, Marc_Johlic, Jon_avila, Kathy_Wahlbin, Loretta, James_Nurthen, Cooper
16:18:03 [kathleen]
AWK: Example 1 is a good example
16:18:09 [MichaelC]
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16:18:23 [bbailey]
bbailey has joined #wai-wcag
16:18:55 [kathleen]
AWK: second example a little different
16:18:57 [MichaelC]
MichaelC has joined #wai-wcag
16:19:01 [bbailey]
bbailey has joined #wai-wcag
16:19:22 [kathleen]
AWK: some cases using describedby and some not
16:20:00 [kathleen]
jamesn: why would you use both?
16:20:15 [kathleen]
s/woould/wouldn't/
16:20:30 [AWK]
Zakim, queue?
16:20:30 [Zakim]
I see jamesn, Kathy on the speaker queue
16:20:32 [bbailey]
bbailey has joined #wai-wcag
16:20:59 [AWK]
q+
16:21:47 [MichaelC]
MichaelC has joined #wai-wcag
16:22:28 [MichaelC]
MichaelC has joined #wai-wcag
16:22:40 [AWK]
ack j
16:22:40 [Zakim]
jamesn, you wanted to note that I don't see aria-invalid in Example 2 at all
16:22:42 [AWK]
ack kath
16:22:44 [Kathy]
q-
16:23:36 [MichaelC]
MichaelC has joined #wai-wcag
16:24:05 [AWK]
ack awk
16:24:10 [MichaelC]
MichaelC has joined #wai-wcag
16:25:39 [marcjohlic]
marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
16:26:31 [kathleen]
Sailesh: where can we use aria-invalid when by itself it satifies a success criterion?
16:26:59 [kathleen]
AWK: sometimes its helpful to provide additional text
16:27:11 [Zakim]
-Katie_Haritos-Shea
16:27:16 [Jon_avila]
q+
16:28:36 [AWK]
ack jon
16:28:46 [kathleen]
AWK: leave this one open and talk about it further?
16:29:29 [kathleen]
jon_avila: you could use it on other types of widgets that are not required
16:30:04 [kathleen]
AWK: the spec says you shouldn't do it but it may not be the cause of a failure.
16:30:22 [kathleen]
james: read it as a really strong "should"
16:31:44 [kathleen]
RRSAgent, make minutes
16:31:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/08-wai-wcag-minutes.html kathleen
16:32:30 [AWK]
RESOLUTION: leave open
16:32:31 [kathleen]
AWK: talk about this one on Thursday? 4 pm ET
16:32:40 [kathleen]
RESOLUTION: leave open
16:33:27 [kathleen]
RRSAgent, make minutes
16:33:27 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/08-wai-wcag-minutes.html kathleen
16:33:49 [kathleen]
AWK: let Loretta and James know what you want to discuss on Thursday
16:33:54 [AWK]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comments_Needing_Responses
16:34:08 [AWK]
Please check that link for comments that you committed to respond to
16:34:42 [kathleen]
RRSAgent, make minutes
16:34:42 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/08-wai-wcag-minutes.html kathleen
16:34:48 [Zakim]
-Sailesh
16:34:49 [Zakim]
-Loretta
16:34:49 [Zakim]
-Bruce_Bailey
16:34:51 [Zakim]
-Jon_avila
16:34:51 [Zakim]
-Kathy_Wahlbin
16:34:58 [Zakim]
-Marc_Johlic
16:35:00 [AWK]
Zakim, agenda?
16:35:00 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
16:35:01 [Zakim]
1. Publication timeline update [from AWK]
16:35:01 [Zakim]
2. New survey of draft responses to comments and one new technique https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/08042014survey/ [from AWK]
16:35:01 [Zakim]
3. Comment and techniques status [from AWK]
16:35:03 [Zakim]
-James_Nurthen
16:35:08 [AWK]
Zakim, close item 1
16:35:08 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Publication timeline update, closed
16:35:09 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:35:09 [Zakim]
2. New survey of draft responses to comments and one new technique https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/08042014survey/ [from AWK]
16:35:13 [AWK]
Zakim, close item 2
16:35:13 [Zakim]
agendum 2, New survey of draft responses to comments and one new technique https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/08042014survey/, closed
16:35:15 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
16:35:15 [Zakim]
3. Comment and techniques status [from AWK]
16:35:17 [Zakim]
-Wilco_Fiers
16:35:21 [AWK]
Zakim, bye
16:35:21 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Katie_Haritos-Shea, MartijnHoutepen, +1.703.825.aaaa, AWK, Michael_Cooper, Sailesh, Wilco_Fiers, Bruce_Bailey, kathleen, Marc_Johlic,
16:35:21 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #wai-wcag
16:35:24 [Zakim]
... +1.703.637.aabb, Jon_avila, Kathy_Wahlbin, Loretta, John_Foliot, James_Nurthen, Cooper
16:35:56 [SPanchang]
SPanchang has joined #wai-wcag
16:35:58 [AWK]
RRSAgent, make minutes
16:35:58 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/08-wai-wcag-minutes.html AWK
18:04:26 [Kathy]
Kathy has left #wai-wcag