14:54:52 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
14:54:52 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/04/08-wai-wcag-irc
14:54:54 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:54:54 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #wai-wcag
14:54:56 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
14:54:56 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
14:54:57 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
14:54:57 <trackbot> Date: 08 April 2014
14:55:05 <AWK> Chair: AWK
14:55:23 <AWK> Regrets+ Joshue O Connor, David MacDonald
14:55:39 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has now started
14:55:40 <AWK> Zakim, Agenda?
14:55:40 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
14:55:46 <Zakim> +Katie_Haritos-Shea
14:55:54 <AWK> Agenda+ Publication timeline update
14:56:10 <Zakim> +MartijnHoutepen
14:56:14 <AWK> Agenda+ New survey of draft responses to comments and one new technique  https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/08042014survey/
14:56:31 <Ryladog> Ryladog has joined #wai-wcag
14:56:36 <AWK> Agenda+ Comment and techniques status
14:56:43 <Wilco> Wilco has joined #wai-wcag
14:56:52 <AWK> Zakim, Agenda?
14:56:52 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
14:56:54 <Zakim> 1. Publication timeline update [from AWK]
14:56:54 <Zakim> 2. New survey of draft responses to comments and one new technique  https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/08042014survey/ [from AWK]
14:56:54 <Zakim> 3. Comment and techniques status [from AWK]
14:57:29 <Zakim> + +1.703.825.aaaa
14:58:10 <Zakim> +AWK
14:58:19 <Zakim> +??P17
14:58:36 <AWK> Zakim, aaaa is SAilesh
14:58:36 <Zakim> +SAilesh; got it
14:58:49 <AWK> Zakim, SAilesh is Sailesh
14:58:50 <Zakim> +Sailesh; got it
14:58:50 <Wilco> zakim, i am Martijn
14:58:50 <Zakim> ok, Wilco, I now associate you with MartijnHoutepen
14:59:04 <kathleen> kathleen has joined #wai-wcag
14:59:06 <MichaelC> zakim, Martijn is Wilco_Fiers
14:59:07 <Zakim> +Wilco_Fiers; got it
14:59:26 <AWK> Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:59:26 <Zakim> On the phone I see Katie_Haritos-Shea, Wilco_Fiers, Sailesh, AWK, Michael_Cooper
15:00:05 <Wilco> zakim, mute me
15:00:05 <Zakim> Wilco_Fiers should now be muted
15:00:16 <Zakim> +Bruce_Bailey
15:00:30 <bbailey> bbailey has joined #wai-wcag
15:00:35 <Zakim> +kathleen
15:00:36 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
15:00:37 <MichaelC> ack me
15:00:48 <AWK> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:00:48 <Zakim> On the phone I see Katie_Haritos-Shea, Wilco_Fiers (muted), Sailesh, AWK, Michael_Cooper, Bruce_Bailey, kathleen
15:00:53 <bbailey> zakim, i am bruce
15:00:53 <Zakim> ok, bbailey, I now associate you with Bruce_Bailey
15:00:55 <Jon_avila> Jon_avila has joined #wai-wcag
15:01:05 <Zakim> +Marc_Johlic
15:01:35 <MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2014AprJun/0015.html
15:01:35 <MichaelC> regrets: David_MacDonald
15:01:53 <AWK> SCribe: Kathleen
15:01:54 <MichaelC> regrets: David_MacDonald, Joshue_O_Connor
15:02:00 <Zakim> + +1.703.637.aabb
15:02:12 <Jon_avila> zakim, I am aabb
15:02:12 <Zakim> +Jon_avila; got it
15:02:13 <MichaelC> scribe: kathleen
15:02:22 <AWK> Scribe: Kathleen
15:02:27 <Zakim> +Kathy_Wahlbin
15:02:28 <MichaelC> scribe: kathleen
15:03:33 <AWK> TOPIC: republishing WCAG supporting docs
15:03:44 <Loretta> Loretta has joined #wai-wcag
15:03:59 <kathleen> MichaelC: understanding and techniques documents are being republished as of today to add acknowledgments
15:04:17 <SPanchang> SPanchang has joined #wai-wcag
15:04:22 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:04:26 <AWK> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/ now references an April 8 date
15:04:36 <Loretta> zakim, IPaller is Loretta
15:04:36 <Zakim> sorry, Loretta, I do not recognize a party named 'IPaller'
15:04:40 <kathleen> MicaelC: if you notice any contributors missing please let me know
15:04:50 <Loretta> zakim, IPCaller is Loretta
15:04:50 <Zakim> +Loretta; got it
15:05:06 <AWK> http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/ is also set to April 8
15:05:22 <Zakim> +John_Foliot
15:07:40 <JF> JF has joined #wai-wcag
15:08:11 <AWK> Zakim, take up item 1
15:08:11 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Publication timeline update" taken up [from AWK]
15:08:33 <AWK> New techniques due	15- May
15:08:45 <AWK> Working group finalizes last edits for inclusion	8-Jul
15:09:37 <AWK> Public review draft for comments published	22-Jul
15:09:54 <AWK> Length of comment period	21
15:10:10 <MichaelC> s/21/21 days/
15:10:26 <AWK> Comments close	12-Aug
15:10:42 <AWK> Days to process comments	14 days
15:11:06 <AWK> WG approval of version for publication	26-Aug
15:11:16 <AWK> Publication request	2-Sep
15:11:23 <AWK> Publish	9-Sep
15:12:25 <kathleen> AWK: we have about a month to get our techniques submitted so the we as a group can work on them
15:13:24 <kathleen> q+
15:13:25 <AWK> Zakim, take up item 2
15:13:26 <Zakim> agendum 2. "New survey of draft responses to comments and one new technique  https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/08042014survey/" taken up [from AWK]
15:13:31 <AWK> ack kath
15:13:55 <kathleen> Thursday meetings?
15:14:03 <kathleen> AWK: we need to talk about that
15:15:03 <kathleen> Loretta: people need to come to the meetings
15:15:46 <kathleen> Loretta: I will be there
15:15:53 <kathleen> I will be there too.
15:16:35 <kathleen> AWK: I am planning on being there.
15:18:16 <kathleen> TOPIC:  Comment LC-2890: Draft response
15:18:24 <bbailey> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/08042014survey/results
15:19:35 <bbailey> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20-TECHS/H27.html
15:19:41 <bbailey> H27: Providing text and non-text alternatives for object
15:19:53 <bbailey> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20-TECHS/H53.html
15:20:03 <bbailey> H53: Using the body of the object element
15:20:32 <kathleen> Jon_Avila: response did not appear to complete
15:20:48 <kathleen> I wasn't sure what the proper terminology was.
15:21:16 <kathleen> Ryladog: I'm good.
15:22:49 <kathleen> AW: any objection to saying content instead of body?
15:23:23 <kathleen> Jon_Avila: do we need to say how it would be accessed by assistive tecnology?
15:24:13 <kathleen> AWK: looking at H53's Example 1
15:24:23 <Wilco> q+
15:24:49 <AWK> ack wilco
15:25:08 <kathleen> wilco: I sent this one in
15:25:30 <kathleen> wilco: I can put this issue in to see how well it is supported
15:25:53 <kathleen> AWK: we need data on how example 1 works
15:26:18 <kathleen> AWK: however it is already a published technique
15:26:49 <kathleen> AWK: I don't know what the current support is
15:27:41 <kathleen> AWK: we will bring example 2 into H53
15:28:00 <kathleen> AWK: for ourselves, a note to look at the accessibility support
15:28:06 <Jon_avila> +1
15:28:16 <kathleen> AWK: reasonable approach?
15:29:01 <Wilco> zakim, mute me
15:29:01 <Zakim> Wilco_Fiers should now be muted
15:30:23 <Wilco> zakim, unmute me
15:30:23 <Zakim> Wilco_Fiers should no longer be muted
15:30:33 <kathleen> RESOLUTION: Accepted as amended
15:30:49 <AWK> ACTION: Wilco to investigate accessibility support for H53
15:30:49 <trackbot> Created ACTION-252 - Investigate accessibility support for h53 [on Wilco Fiers - due 2014-04-15].
15:30:50 <kathleen> wilco: will look into accessibility support
15:31:06 <Zakim> +James_Nurthen
15:31:12 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
15:31:21 <Wilco> zakim, mute me
15:31:21 <Zakim> Wilco_Fiers should now be muted
15:31:21 <kathleen> TOPIC: Comment LC-2903: Draft response
15:31:27 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
15:31:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/08-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
15:31:39 <bbailey> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/08042014survey/results#x2652
15:32:17 <kathleen> AWK: proposal to add links to Mozilla documentation for blink
15:33:37 <kathleen> RESOLUTION: Accepted as proposed
15:34:07 <kathleen> TOPIC: Comment LC-2892: Draft response
15:34:37 <bbailey> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/08042014survey/results#x2663
15:34:52 <AWK> Marc's suggestion: F76: Failure of Success Criterion 3.2.2 due to not providing change of context instructions prior to a control that would cause a change of context
15:35:34 <Jon_avila> yes, I believe so.
15:36:02 <bbailey> current:  F76: Failure of Success Criterion 3.2.2 due to providing instruction material about the change of context by change of setting in a user interface element at a location that users may bypass
15:36:08 <bbailey> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20-TECHS/F76.html
15:36:09 <kathleen> Ryladog: I like it (the proposed new title)
15:37:51 <Jon_avila> q+
15:38:04 <AWK> ack jon
15:38:16 <kathleen> Loretta: not a clearly written failure
15:39:08 <bbailey> +bb to say title should use same phrasing as sc
15:39:21 <AWK> ack bb
15:39:28 <bbailey> advised of the behavior before using the componen
15:39:56 <JF> s/componen/component
15:40:54 <kathleen> AWK: due to not advising the user in advance of a potential change of context
15:41:11 <marcjohlic> I like that
15:42:02 <AWK> F76: Failure of Success Criterion 3.2.2 due to not advising users of a possible change of context prior
15:42:06 <AWK> F76: Failure of Success Criterion 3.2.2 due to not advising users of a possible change of context
15:42:41 <Jon_avila> q+
15:43:14 <AWK> ack jon
15:43:55 <kathleen> Jon_Avila: "don't do this, bit if you do  ...."
15:44:26 <kathleen> s bit/but
15:44:46 <bbailey> q+ To say that even if failure is kind of redundant to the SC, it may still be important to document.
15:45:25 <kathleen> http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140311/G13
15:45:44 <AWK> ack B
15:45:44 <Zakim> Bruce_Bailey, you wanted to say that even if failure is kind of redundant to the SC, it may still be important to document.
15:46:21 <Jon_avila> q+
15:46:49 <kathleen> q+
15:48:15 <AWK> ack j
15:48:26 <kathleen> AWK: do we want to leave this open and talk to Gregg about it?
15:48:52 <Jon_avila> q-
15:48:56 <AWK> ack kath
15:50:58 <kathleen> q-
15:51:46 <bbailey> q+ To ask if some of the difficulty is that we do not have another way of providing a prompt?
15:53:06 <AWK> ack bb
15:53:09 <AWK> ack b
15:53:10 <Zakim> Bruce_Bailey, you wanted to ask if some of the difficulty is that we do not have another way of providing a prompt?
15:57:48 <kathleen> extensive form control/html discussion ensues
15:59:19 <kathleen> RESOLUTION: leave open until next week
15:59:45 <kathleen> TOPIC: LC-2880: Draft response
16:00:16 <bbailey> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/08042014survey/results#x28800408
16:00:21 <kathleen> Loretta: still in Proposal status
16:00:30 <kathleen> RESOLUTION: leave open
16:00:48 <kathleen> TOPIC: ARIA Technique: Using Aria-Invalid to Indicate An Error Field
16:00:56 <bbailey> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/08042014survey/results#xaria001
16:01:44 <kathleen> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_Aria-Invalid_to_Indicate_An_Error_Field
16:01:46 <AWK> wiki link: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_Aria-Invalid_to_Indicate_An_Error_Field
16:01:46 <bbailey> bbailey has joined #wai-wcag
16:01:46 <Zakim> +Cooper
16:02:04 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
16:03:00 <kathleen> AWK: comments indicate poeple are confused about the what the technique is doing
16:05:01 <Loretta> q+
16:05:06 <AWK> q+
16:05:58 <AWK> ack l
16:06:39 <kathleen> Loretta: these are examples of people should not be using aria-invalid - failure?
16:07:00 <Zakim> -John_Foliot
16:07:30 <kathleen> Sailesh: use it when there's no other error desciption
16:08:12 <jamesn> q+ to note that I don't see aria-invalid in Example 2 at all
16:08:13 <Kathy> q+
16:08:17 <AWK> ack awk
16:10:40 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #wai-wcag
16:11:16 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #wai-wcag
16:11:53 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #wai-wcag
16:13:15 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
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16:14:05 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
16:14:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/08-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
16:14:30 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #wai-wcag
16:15:24 <kathleen> kathleen has joined #wai-wcag
16:15:46 <kathleen> testing
16:15:48 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
16:16:12 <kathleen> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:16:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/08-wai-wcag-minutes.html kathleen
16:16:15 <AWK> scribe: kathleen
16:16:16 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
16:16:25 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #wai-wcag
16:16:28 <jamesn> q?
16:17:04 <bbailey> bbailey has joined #wai-wcag
16:17:26 <kathleen> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:17:26 <Zakim> On the phone I see Katie_Haritos-Shea, Wilco_Fiers (muted), Sailesh, AWK, Bruce_Bailey, kathleen, Marc_Johlic, Jon_avila, Kathy_Wahlbin, Loretta, James_Nurthen, Cooper
16:17:32 <kathleen> zakim, who is on the call?
16:17:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see Katie_Haritos-Shea, Wilco_Fiers (muted), Sailesh, AWK, Bruce_Bailey, kathleen, Marc_Johlic, Jon_avila, Kathy_Wahlbin, Loretta, James_Nurthen, Cooper
16:18:03 <kathleen> AWK: Example 1 is a good example
16:18:09 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #wai-wcag
16:18:23 <bbailey> bbailey has joined #wai-wcag
16:18:55 <kathleen> AWK: second example a little different
16:18:57 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #wai-wcag
16:19:01 <bbailey> bbailey has joined #wai-wcag
16:19:22 <kathleen> AWK: some cases using describedby and some not
16:20:00 <kathleen> jamesn: why would you use both?
16:20:15 <kathleen> s/woould/wouldn't/
16:20:30 <AWK> Zakim, queue?
16:20:30 <Zakim> I see jamesn, Kathy on the speaker queue
16:20:32 <bbailey> bbailey has joined #wai-wcag
16:20:59 <AWK> q+
16:21:47 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #wai-wcag
16:22:28 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #wai-wcag
16:22:40 <AWK> ack j
16:22:40 <Zakim> jamesn, you wanted to note that I don't see aria-invalid in Example 2 at all
16:22:42 <AWK> ack kath
16:22:44 <Kathy> q-
16:23:36 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #wai-wcag
16:24:05 <AWK> ack awk
16:24:10 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #wai-wcag
16:25:39 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
16:26:31 <kathleen> Sailesh: where can we use aria-invalid when by itself it satifies a success criterion?
16:26:59 <kathleen> AWK: sometimes its helpful to provide additional text
16:27:11 <Zakim> -Katie_Haritos-Shea
16:27:16 <Jon_avila> q+
16:28:36 <AWK> ack jon
16:28:46 <kathleen> AWK: leave this one open and talk about it further?
16:29:29 <kathleen> jon_avila: you could use it on other types of widgets that are not required
16:30:04 <kathleen> AWK: the spec says you shouldn't do it but it may not be the cause of a failure.
16:30:22 <kathleen> james: read it as a really strong "should"
16:31:44 <kathleen> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:31:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/08-wai-wcag-minutes.html kathleen
16:32:30 <AWK> RESOLUTION: leave open
16:32:31 <kathleen> AWK: talk about this one on Thursday? 4 pm ET
16:32:40 <kathleen> RESOLUTION: leave open
16:33:27 <kathleen> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:33:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/08-wai-wcag-minutes.html kathleen
16:33:49 <kathleen> AWK: let Loretta and James know what you want to discuss on Thursday
16:33:54 <AWK> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comments_Needing_Responses
16:34:08 <AWK> Please check that link for comments that you committed to respond to
16:34:42 <kathleen> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:34:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/08-wai-wcag-minutes.html kathleen
16:34:48 <Zakim> -Sailesh
16:34:49 <Zakim> -Loretta
16:34:49 <Zakim> -Bruce_Bailey
16:34:51 <Zakim> -Jon_avila
16:34:51 <Zakim> -Kathy_Wahlbin
16:34:58 <Zakim> -Marc_Johlic
16:35:00 <AWK> Zakim, agenda?
16:35:00 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
16:35:01 <Zakim> 1. Publication timeline update [from AWK]
16:35:01 <Zakim> 2. New survey of draft responses to comments and one new technique  https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/08042014survey/ [from AWK]
16:35:01 <Zakim> 3. Comment and techniques status [from AWK]
16:35:03 <Zakim> -James_Nurthen
16:35:08 <AWK> Zakim, close item 1
16:35:08 <Zakim> agendum 1, Publication timeline update, closed
16:35:09 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:35:09 <Zakim> 2. New survey of draft responses to comments and one new technique  https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/08042014survey/ [from AWK]
16:35:13 <AWK> Zakim, close item 2
16:35:13 <Zakim> agendum 2, New survey of draft responses to comments and one new technique  https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/08042014survey/, closed
16:35:15 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
16:35:15 <Zakim> 3. Comment and techniques status [from AWK]
16:35:17 <Zakim> -Wilco_Fiers
16:35:21 <AWK> Zakim, bye
16:35:21 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Katie_Haritos-Shea, MartijnHoutepen, +1.703.825.aaaa, AWK, Michael_Cooper, Sailesh, Wilco_Fiers, Bruce_Bailey, kathleen, Marc_Johlic,
16:35:21 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wai-wcag
16:35:24 <Zakim> ... +1.703.637.aabb, Jon_avila, Kathy_Wahlbin, Loretta, John_Foliot, James_Nurthen, Cooper
16:35:56 <SPanchang> SPanchang has joined #wai-wcag
16:35:58 <AWK> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:35:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/08-wai-wcag-minutes.html AWK
18:04:26 <Kathy> Kathy has left #wai-wcag