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13:59:47 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/04/07-ldp-irc
13:59:49 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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13:59:51 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP
13:59:51 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
13:59:52 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
13:59:52 <trackbot> Date: 07 April 2014
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14:01:35 <Zakim> + +43.660.274.aaaa
14:01:54 <JohnArwe> nice background white noise
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14:02:04 <Zakim> - +43.660.274.aaaa
14:02:08 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
14:02:09 <Zakim> +Sandro
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14:02:24 <Zakim> +[IBM]
14:02:36 <SteveS> Zakim, [IBM] is me
14:02:36 <Zakim> +SteveS; got it
14:02:45 <Zakim> + +43.660.274.aabb
14:03:05 <sergio> Zakim, +43.660.274.aabb is me
14:03:05 <Zakim> +sergio; got it
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14:04:39 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:04:49 <codyburleson> Zakim, IPcaller is me.
14:04:49 <Zakim> +codyburleson; got it
14:05:46 <sandro> trackbot, start meeting
14:05:48 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:05:50 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP
14:05:50 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see SW_LDP()10:00AM already started
14:05:51 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
14:05:51 <trackbot> Date: 07 April 2014
14:06:54 <Zakim> +??P8
14:07:05 <MiguelAraCo> Zakim, MiguelAraCo is with codyburleson
14:07:05 <Zakim> +MiguelAraCo; got it
14:07:07 <Zakim> +ericP
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14:07:41 <Zakim> -??P8
14:08:04 <Zakim> + +82.23.45.2.aacc
14:08:11 <Arnaud> zakim, aacc is me
14:08:11 <Zakim> +Arnaud; got it
14:08:19 <ericP> ->  http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2014-03-31 last meeting minutes
14:08:48 <Zakim> +??P10
14:08:57 <BartvanLeeuwen> Zakim, ??p10 is me
14:08:57 <Zakim> +BartvanLeeuwen; got it
14:09:20 <ericP> from last meeting: XRESOLVED: clarify specification by adding that on POST the default context URI is the to-be-created resource's URI
14:10:09 <ericP> PROPOSED: accept http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2014-03-31 as  a record of the Marc 31 meeting
14:10:16 <ericP> Arnaud: 2nd
14:10:18 <ericP> APPROVEd
14:11:48 <ericP> topic: Tracking of actions & issues
14:11:49 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
14:11:54 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
14:11:54 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it
14:11:55 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
14:11:55 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
14:12:07 <ericP> Zakim, who is here?
14:12:07 <Zakim> On the phone I see JohnArwe, Ashok_Malhotra, Sandro, SteveS, sergio, codyburleson, ericP, Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, TallTed (muted)
14:12:09 <Zakim> codyburleson has codyburleson, MiguelAraCo
14:12:09 <Zakim> On IRC I see BartvanLeeuwen, codyburleson, sergio, SteveS, Ashok, JohnArwe, Zakim, RRSAgent, MiguelAraCo, TallTed, stevebattle111, Arnaud, jmvanel, ghard, sandro, ericP, Yves,
14:12:09 <Zakim> ... trackbot
14:12:36 <ericP> topic: Tracking of actions & issues
14:13:08 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/ns/ldp.html
14:13:39 <ericP> chair: arnaud
14:13:42 <ericP> scribe: ericP
14:14:00 <ericP> Arnaud: now that we're done with the main spec, we want folks to make progress on the Primer, etc.
14:14:14 <ericP> ideally, by next week's F2F, we'll have updated drafts
14:14:44 <JohnArwe> regrets: andrei
14:14:44 <ericP> Arnaud: we'll be able to work duri g the F2F
14:15:01 <ericP> ... you either need to have a doc to present or say what's stopping you
14:15:12 <ericP> ... i have forwarded the comments to the comments list
14:15:24 <ericP> ... i don't know that any need to be tracked as issues
14:16:12 <ericP> topic: F2F5 Boston
14:16:15 <ericP> Arnaud,
14:16:32 <ericP> Arnaud: i put together an agenda to leave time for us to respond to comments
14:16:59 <ericP> ... we appear to have good consensus but we need to formalize so we can present to Director when we move to CR
14:17:08 <ericP> ... i left time for the patch format
14:17:49 <ericP> ... now that we have most of the LDP spec issues behind us, maybe we can make progress on PATCH (which we all agree we need)
14:18:16 <ericP> ... it may be too late to put it into the spec, but at least we can put it in the primer
14:18:30 <ericP> ... i allocated time for interop testing
14:19:18 <ericP> ... test suite is still in the works, but exiting CR requires us to have finished and gotten results
14:19:45 <ericP> ... i don't know what we'll be able to do on creating tests.
14:20:33 <ericP> SteveS: i plan to have the beginning of an executable test suite on a vanilla server.
14:21:00 <ericP> Arnaud: if others have vanilla servers, it would be good if we could play with them during the F2F
14:21:12 <ericP> ... maybe writing tests on the spot
14:21:24 <sergio> q?
14:21:47 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
14:22:16 <ericP> ... i'm willing to accomodate timing requests from those attending remotely
14:23:15 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
14:23:30 <ericP> sergio: i will try to be on line, maybe provide an online server
14:23:58 <ericP> Arnaud: maybe we can time using it when when you'll be around
14:24:08 <BartvanLeeuwen> q+
14:24:17 <ericP> ack next
14:24:18 <Arnaud> ack bart
14:24:36 <TallTed> world-clock links are helpful
14:24:45 <TallTed> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/
14:24:58 <ericP> BartvanLeeuwen: can you add your nice timezone link from the agenda?
14:25:21 <ericP> Arnaud: sure (that's 9+6 is 3pm)
14:25:22 <ericP> topic: LDP spec
14:25:33 <sergio> q+
14:25:51 <Arnaud> ack sergio
14:26:22 <ericP> Arnaud: sergio reminded us of a cracks about a conflict between rel=meta and rel=describedBy
14:26:55 <ericP> sergio: [pointing to ldp 4.2.1.6]
14:27:07 <sergio> http://www.w3.org/TR/ldp/#h5_ldpr-gen-pubclireqs
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14:27:13 <ericP> Arnaud: we're using the same name for two different types of relationships
14:27:44 <ericP> ... we don't have to solve it now.
14:28:14 <ericP> ... re Null Relative URI, concensus seems to be stick with the spec
14:28:44 <ericP> ... there was an email talking about relative graphs but we don't know if it will satisify Reto
14:29:12 <ericP> sandro: maybe define relative graphs in a WG Note?
14:29:14 <sergio> q+
14:29:33 <ericP> ... email suggests that we ask RDF WG but they're done
14:29:47 <ericP> ... if we write it in a Note, it can be picked up by another WG.
14:29:53 <Arnaud> ack sergio
14:31:02 <ericP> sergio: in my opinion, we're not deviating from the RDf standard, but maybe we should describe it in further detail
14:31:09 <ericP> ... beyond that, i don't see an issue
14:31:17 <ericP> Arnaud: different options:
14:31:44 <ericP> ... .. do nothing -- rely on Turtle and folks have to stick to the serializations which work
14:31:45 <sergio> http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/REC-rdf11-concepts-20140225/#h3_rdf-documents <-- what I was quoting
14:32:01 <ericP> ... .. add a bit about it in the ldp spec
14:32:01 <sergio> "A concrete RDF syntax may offer many different ways to encode the same RDF graph or RDF dataset, for example through the use of namespace prefixes, relative IRIs, blank node identifiers, and different ordering of statements. While these aspects can have great effect on the convenience of working with the RDF document, they are not significant for its meaning."
14:32:20 <ericP> ... .. create a separate Note (per Sandro's suggestion)
14:32:34 <ericP> sandro: ask the commenter which they prefer?
14:33:00 <ericP> SteveS: there's a bit diff between the ammounts of WG work
14:33:18 <ericP> sandro: ask them. it doesn't it have to come from the WG
14:33:34 <ericP> Arnaud: the commenter doesn't want us to do this at all.
14:33:50 <SteveS> q+
14:33:55 <ericP> sandro: there aren't any alternatives that really work
14:34:12 <Arnaud> ack Steves
14:34:21 <ericP> Arnaud: peirre antione finds our current approach reasonable
14:34:23 <betehess> FYI, from JSON-LD spec: [[  In JSON-LD all relative IRIs are resolved relative to the base IRI. ]]
14:34:58 <ericP> SteveS: can we just let the server say whether it accepts the problem requests
14:35:18 <ericP> sandro: i think the comment is about the architecture
14:35:34 <ericP> ... but he seemed to think that if we defined relative graphs, that it would be ok
14:35:58 <betehess> [[ JSON-LD allows IRIs to be specified in a relative form which is resolved against the document base according section 5.1 Establishing a Base URI of [RFC3986]. The base IRI may be explicitly set with a context using the @base keyword. ]]
14:36:32 <betehess> because we are extending the media-type using rel=type, I think there is no problem whatsoever
14:37:23 <betehess> so the relative uris thing could just be triggered by the rel=type and defined in LDP without asking the RDF guys to step in
14:37:24 <ericP> Arnaud: cygri is content with the spec today
14:37:52 <ericP> ... most people agree, e.g. david wood agreed
14:38:11 <ericP> sandro, shall we try a one-sentence change about relative graphs?
14:38:16 <Ashok> q+
14:39:52 <Arnaud> ack Ashok
14:40:50 <ericP> ericP: i think the issue is that you don't have the base URL at the time you parse the doc and figure out what to do with it, e.g. what will be the created resource, ergo base URL for the original parsing
14:41:24 <ericP> Ashok: kingsly is asking if we can base LDP on something else with relative RDF graphs
14:41:59 <Ashok> s/kingsly/Richard/
14:43:04 <Arnaud> I think I got cut off
14:43:29 <Zakim> -Arnaud
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14:44:41 <Zakim> +Arnaud
14:45:25 <sergio> q+
14:45:45 <Arnaud> ack sergio
14:46:10 <ericP> sergio: first phase, decide the name of the created resource
14:46:48 <ericP> topic: Paging spec
14:47:54 <ericP> Arnaud: two weeks ago, Sandro proposed stable paging
14:48:29 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me
14:48:29 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted
14:48:39 <ericP> ... TallTed said that we're conflating to things; we should follow the database community which has looked at this hard
14:49:02 <ericP> sandro: i recall disposing of TallTed's issues in my last email
14:49:09 <ericP> TallTed: i disagree.
14:49:23 <ericP> ... we're at the early stages of DB development in LDP.
14:49:38 <ericP> ... by ignoring this stuff, we're doing everyone a disservice
14:49:59 <ericP> ... i propose self-education, and not conflating
14:50:26 <ericP> ... we're not talking locking, etc.
14:51:01 <ericP> ... with mutliple clients talking to the same service, it's like MS Access 1.0 on a shared file
14:52:32 <ericP> ericP: is there someone who can look at our stuff and fine current and future screw cases, as well as actions to mitigate risk?
14:53:38 <ericP> sandro: i'm happy to get reviews, but i'm reluctant to use DB experts' language 'cause we may be inaccurate and confusing
14:54:25 <ericP> Ashok: i can work on this and we can talk about this at the F2F
14:54:59 <ericP> sandro: most importantly, point out unexpeted characteristics in our design, unexpected to us or users
14:55:13 <sandro> sandro: most useful thing: point out any unexpected consequences of the design  (the design being my proposal for paging)
14:55:19 <ericP> topic: Test suite
14:55:36 <sergio> q+
14:55:42 <ericP> Arnaud, raul has been working on RDFa-ifying the test suite
14:55:48 <ericP> Arnaud: raul has been working on RDFa-ifying the test suite
14:55:53 <Arnaud> ack sergio
14:55:57 <ericP> ... others have said that's a hard way to go
14:57:08 <ericP> sergio: the problem is not getting the data from the HTML, but it's considered a modification (license issue) to transform to Turtle
14:57:28 <ericP> Arnaud: copyright doesn't allow you to transform the doc
14:57:38 <ericP> ... would like the team contacts to work this out
14:59:30 <ericP> ericP: so if someone runs any23 > test.ttl, they transform?
14:59:40 <ericP> Arnaud: correct, you can't own that file
14:59:45 <ericP> topic: 209
15:00:09 <ericP> Arnaud: TAG supportive of 209
15:00:15 <ericP> ... Jenni already looking to use it
15:00:19 <ericP> q+
15:00:31 <sandro> q+
15:00:43 <Arnaud> ack ericP
15:01:49 <sandro> q-
15:02:41 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
15:02:49 <BartvanLeeuwen> thx bye
15:02:53 <Zakim> -BartvanLeeuwen
15:02:56 <Zakim> -TallTed
15:02:58 <Zakim> -sergio
15:02:59 <Zakim> -SteveS
15:02:59 <Zakim> -codyburleson
15:03:00 <Zakim> -ericP
15:03:01 <Zakim> -Arnaud
15:03:01 <Zakim> -Sandro
15:03:06 <Zakim> -JohnArwe
15:03:08 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended
15:03:08 <Zakim> Attendees were JohnArwe, +43.660.274.aaaa, Ashok_Malhotra, Sandro, SteveS, sergio, codyburleson, MiguelAraCo, ericP, +82.23.45.2.aacc, Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, TallTed
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15:06:23 <SteveS> sergio, I guess we didn’t get into details on test suite and sharing of source (or collaboration in general)
15:06:35 <SteveS> …just reading your email
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