IRC log of ua on 2014-04-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:48:34 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
16:48:34 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/04/03-ua-irc
16:48:36 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:48:36 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #ua
16:48:38 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
16:48:39 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
16:48:39 [trackbot]
Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
16:48:40 [trackbot]
Date: 03 April 2014
16:48:48 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutews
16:48:48 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutews', jeanne. Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:48:54 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:48:54 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/03-ua-minutes.html jeanne
16:54:50 [Jan]
Jan has joined #ua
16:55:12 [kford]
kford has joined #ua
16:56:35 [jeanne]
agenda+ change your W3C passwords
16:58:29 [Greg]
Greg has joined #ua
17:00:58 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
17:01:05 [Zakim]
+Jeanne
17:02:11 [Zakim]
+Greg_Lowney
17:02:23 [Jan]
zakim, code?
17:02:23 [Zakim]
the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan
17:02:58 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
17:03:13 [Jan]
zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan
17:03:13 [Zakim]
+Jan; got it
17:04:00 [KimPatch]
KimPatch has joined #ua
17:04:01 [Zakim]
+Kim_Patch
17:05:02 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
17:05:51 [Jan]
zakim, [Miscrosoft] is really Kelly
17:05:51 [Zakim]
sorry, Jan, I do not recognize a party named '[Miscrosoft]'
17:06:07 [Jan]
zakim, [Microsoft] is really Kelly
17:06:07 [Zakim]
+Kelly; got it
17:06:34 [allanj]
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17:07:12 [Zakim]
+Jim_Allan
17:07:21 [allanj]
zakim, agenda?
17:07:21 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
17:07:22 [Zakim]
1. change your W3C passwords [from jeanne]
17:08:04 [allanj]
agenda+ Web Apps Charter
17:08:05 [allanj]
agenda+ Finish Jan's OP06 comments
17:08:07 [allanj]
we left off at 2.3.3
17:08:26 [allanj]
chair: JimAllan, KellyFord
17:08:45 [jeanne]
https://www.w3.org/users/
17:10:27 [allanj]
https://www.w3.org/users/myprofile/edit/password
17:10:52 [allanj]
blog about password change http://www.w3.org/blog/2014/03/w3c-password/
17:15:04 [allanj]
scribe: allanj
17:15:32 [allanj]
zakim, close item 1
17:15:32 [Zakim]
agendum 1, change your W3C passwords, closed
17:15:33 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:15:33 [Zakim]
2. Web Apps Charter [from allanj]
17:15:40 [allanj]
open item 2
17:20:36 [allanj]
js: suggest having a use case for important issues.
17:25:00 [allanj]
gl: important - full screen, screen orientation, pointer lock. others are speculation, haven't read the spec in detail.
17:25:40 [allanj]
Topic: full screen
17:28:45 [Greg]
Jackie uses an on-screen keyboard that lets her "type" by hovering a head pointer over buttons on the on-screen keyboard window. If she starts a web app which switches into full-screen mode and covers up the on-screen keyboard window, she is unable to perform any input, including commands to exit that mode. She's totally stuck, and has to request human assistance. If the full-screen API took...
17:28:46 [Greg]
...into consideration reserved areas of the screen, such as those being used by such critical utilities, the browser would not have covered the tools she relied on.
17:30:09 [allanj]
topic: screen orientation
17:31:16 [allanj]
topic: Clipboard
17:33:15 [allanj]
jr: ATAG has a copy/paste requirement for within document.
17:34:05 [allanj]
jr: want the information copied to retain accessibility information.
17:35:16 [allanj]
js: copy/paste should include accessibility information, except where the a11y information is outside the selection area
17:35:41 [allanj]
js: this is a question.
17:36:41 [allanj]
... should there be an exclusion for accessibility information that is outside of the selection to be copied. (i.e. aria-labelledby)
17:39:15 [Jan]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/CR-ATAG20-20131107/#sc_b122
17:40:31 [Jan]
B.1.2.2 Copy-Paste Inside Authoring Tool (WCAG): If the authoring tool supports copy and paste of structured content, then any accessibility information (WCAG) in the copied content is preserved when the authoring tool is both the source and destination of the copy-paste and the source and destination use the same web content technology.
17:49:20 [allanj]
Topic: DOM 3
17:50:23 [allanj]
js: say something like ... if DOM3 does this, then do xxx.
17:52:13 [allanj]
gl: AT is watching DOM, user speaks a command to activate a control, the AT searches the DOM to activate the control. or
17:52:15 [allanj]
http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/html/DOM3-Events.html
17:52:50 [allanj]
gl: the content of some field is updated, does the AT get the information
17:55:34 [allanj]
gl: input events may apply to UI events. they say only mouse and keyboard. what about speech or switch.
17:56:56 [allanj]
kp: with speech you mostly use the keyboard emulation. except, you can say the name of a button, single word buttons work poorly. e.g. email -- to: from: and the cursor moves, rather than jumping to the field.
17:58:25 [allanj]
... there are a host of problems. should look at indieUI. ultimately, the user needs to be able to change commands or names of actions for speech.
17:59:42 [allanj]
gl: dom3 event type list related to UI events. possibly have speech_begin, speech_end, special buttons for switch users
18:00:09 [allanj]
Topic: UI events
18:03:18 [allanj]
discussed indiu UI and touch
18:04:43 [allanj]
topic: Input method (IME)
18:06:25 [allanj]
seems related to UI events, and indieUI.
18:06:36 [allanj]
ja: do we need a use case?
18:07:21 [allanj]
all:no need for use case
18:08:15 [allanj]
topic: Custom elements
18:09:44 [allanj]
gl: does aria allow the relabeling of custom element?
18:10:37 [allanj]
gl: if the custom element uses some new novel event that may break AT.
18:11:16 [allanj]
js: say - must communicate name, role, and state
18:11:52 [allanj]
jr: no, more than that, because it will be entirely new - name, role, state of what?
18:13:11 [allanj]
... if author can define a new machine readable form....maybe AT could read the same machine readable information and create something to communicate to the user
18:13:21 [allanj]
gl: thats a possibly, right
18:13:48 [allanj]
jr: a11y is rarely thought about when creating a command
18:15:16 [allanj]
use case - screen reader user reading a document with custom elements, the screen reader must be able to communicate some accessible name, the content within, and any actions associated with it.
18:16:39 [allanj]
jr: for existing DOM components/controls AT know what behaviors are expected and can communicate human understandable info to the user, and interact with the elements in a machine readable way
18:20:02 [allanj]
ja: scenario - list name element <ln>, programmatically associate a name with the <li> in a list. how is that communicated to the AT
18:21:18 [allanj]
gl: thumbnail control, use mouse wheel to zoom the thumbnail to full size. component made of 3 scroll bars, and a graphic
18:22:05 [allanj]
jr: what's missing, is some behavior/event, something happens on the screen, but that info isn't communicate to AT
18:25:02 [allanj]
ja: should add " can aria be used to label custom elements? what happens when new element falls outside realm of aria. then AT knows nothing of new element. this is a PF issue"
18:25:49 [Greg]
An example of a custom element might be a thumbnail map that shows a tiny version of the document with a highlighted region indicating the visible portion, and allowing the user to drag the highlight to move the visible region (scroll the main window), and also use the scroll wheel to zoom in and out. How would this be conveyed to a blind user, how would a speech input utility drive it, etc.?
18:28:26 [allanj]
rrsagent, make minutes.
18:28:26 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes.', allanj. Try /msg RRSAgent help
18:28:43 [allanj]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:28:43 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/03-ua-minutes.html allanj
18:30:34 [allanj]
js: need to close out editorial comments. edit the document to incorporate necessary changes.
18:30:54 [Zakim]
-Kim_Patch
18:30:56 [allanj]
ja: regrets for next week.
18:31:08 [Zakim]
-Kelly
18:31:17 [Zakim]
-Jeanne
18:31:32 [Zakim]
-Greg_Lowney
18:32:01 [allanj]
rrsagent, make logs public
18:32:10 [allanj]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:32:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/03-ua-minutes.html allanj
18:32:37 [allanj]
zakim, please part
18:32:37 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Jeanne, Greg_Lowney, Jan, Kim_Patch, Kelly, Jim_Allan
18:32:37 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
18:32:49 [allanj]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:32:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/03-ua-minutes.html allanj
18:36:37 [allanj]
rrsagent, please part
18:36:37 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items