08:09:20 RRSAgent has joined #dwbp 08:09:20 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/03/31-dwbp-irc 08:09:24 Zakim has joined #dwbp 08:10:15 PhilA has changed the topic to: Agenda https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/London_2014 08:10:21 agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/London_2014 08:11:10 chair: HadleyBeeman 08:11:35 meeting: DWBP WG F2F meeting, day 1 08:12:30 passcode 3927# is not valid, don't get voice connection 08:12:53 was there also going to be a skype session? 08:13:11 Yes, Makx 08:13:20 Deirdre is working on getting a laptop set up for that 08:13:44 OK hasn't the meeting started yet? 08:13:53 makxdekkers we're getting set up 08:14:16 OK, gives me time to grab a coffee 08:14:20 go for it 08:14:21 :) 08:14:21 ah ok.. it gives me time to do other stuff ;) 08:16:31 Ig_Bittencourt has joined #DWBP 08:17:42 JohnGoodwin has joined #DWBP 08:17:51 CarlosIglesias has joined #dwbp 08:17:51 RickRobinson has joined #DWBP 08:18:43 deirdrelee has joined #dwbp 08:19:03 Vagner_Br has joined #dwbp 08:19:04 markharrison has joined #dwbp 08:19:07 BrianMatthews has joined #DWBP 08:19:34 We're sorting out the A/V and the phone line … bear with us 08:20:00 Okay standing by 08:20:46 zakim, room for 5? 08:20:49 ok, PhilA; conference Team_(dwbp)08:20Z scheduled with code 3927 (DWBP) for 60 minutes until 0920Z; however, please note that capacity is now overbooked 08:20:58 zakim, code? 08:20:58 the conference code is 3927 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA 08:21:42 Team_(dwbp)08:20Z has now started 08:21:50 +Makx_Dekkers 08:21:55 + +1.509.554.aaaa 08:22:14 zakim +1.509.554.aaaa is ericstephan 08:22:19 + +44.207.202.aabb 08:22:22 Connected voice 08:22:32 zakim, aabb is Steve 08:22:32 +Steve; got it 08:22:33 zakim, +1.509.554.aaaa is ericstephan 08:22:33 +ericstephan; got it 08:23:32 For those wanting to join webcam, we can connect via my skype: deirdrelee 08:23:42 zakim, who is here? 08:23:42 On the phone I see Makx_Dekkers, ericstephan, Steve 08:23:44 On IRC I see BrianMatthews, markharrison, Vagner_Br, deirdrelee, RickRobinson, CarlosIglesias, JohnGoodwin, Ig_Bittencourt, Zakim, RRSAgent, PhilA, ericstephan, gatemezi, 08:23:44 ... MakxDekkers, ivan, trackbot 08:24:45 zakim, Steve has Hadley, Yaso, PhilA, deirdrelee, BrianMatthews, Ig_Bittencourt, Antoine 08:24:45 +Hadley, Yaso, PhilA, deirdrelee, BrianMatthews, Ig_Bittencourt, Antoine; got it 08:24:48 zakim, Makx_Dekkers is me 08:24:48 +MakxDekkers; got it 08:25:40 topic: Welcome 08:25:58 Steve: Welcomes everyone, thanks those who have flown/travelled to be here 08:26:10 I wish I could be there with you all 08:26:25 ... attended conference on 50 years of alleviating proverty, programme begun by LBJ 08:26:28 scribe: PhilA 08:26:30 HadleyBeeman has joined #dwbp 08:27:02 Steve: Percentage of population in poverty reduced, absolute numbers increased 08:27:14 yaso has joined #dwbp 08:28:05 Steve: tells a story about how people know each other, but many people don't work together. Seems a lost opportunity 08:28:18 Caroline_ has joined #DWBP 08:28:44 Steve: Describes outcome of meeting, plan was to put collected papers into a new book 08:29:04 ... problem is that people aren't working together 08:29:43 ... so our job is to provide standards that allow people to work together. That's what we're trying to achieve - better collaboration through open data 08:29:57 ... we have a chance to make a big difference 08:30:01 ... people are looking at us 08:31:04 Topic: The Name Game 08:31:15 rrsagent, make logs public 08:32:41 Guest: Rick Robinson 08:32:52 Rick: Works on smart cities for IBM 08:33:09 JohnGoodwin: Introduces himself 08:33:40 markharrison: Here today to represent GS1 (although works for Cambridge University) 08:33:59 ... mentions LOD project at GS1 08:34:18 Laufer: Intrduces self 08:35:22 deidre my skype name is makxdekkers 08:36:03 I can now see them all.. Thanks Deirdre ;) 08:36:24 yaso has joined #dwbp 08:37:07 Vagner_Br: Introduces himself 08:37:40 bernadette: Introduces herself, from Recife in NE Brazil 08:37:47 Ig_Bittencourt: Introduces self 08:38:43 Newton: Introduces self (from Nic.br) 08:39:14 Flavio: Introduces self from Sao Paolo 08:39:58 Guest: Phil Tetlow 08:40:31 PhilT: Introduces self and recognises follow IBMers 08:41:39 Adriano: Introduces self 08:41:55 ... interested in big data, data mining etc 08:42:28 Antoine: Introduces self from Europeana 08:43:34 CarlosIglesias: Introduces self 08:45:12 ... experience with OD in Spain, working with Web Foundation, CTIC etc. 08:45:21 Guest: Brain Matthews 08:46:15 laufer has joined #DWBP 08:46:26 +laufer 08:47:03 BrianMatthews: Introduces self from STFC (Science and Technology Facilities Council) - astronomy, physics etc. 08:47:34 antoine has joined #dwbp 08:47:56 BrianMatthews: refers to SKOS, see http://www.w3.org/TR/skos-primer/ 08:48:03 raphael has joined #dwbp 08:48:29 deirdrelee: Introduces self 08:49:08 antoine has joined #dwbp 08:49:35 -MakxDekkers 08:49:48 yaso: Introduces self 08:50:33 +MakxDekkers 08:51:55 PhilA: Introduces self 08:52:00 HadleyBeeman: Introduces self 08:52:14 + +33.4.93.00.aacc 08:52:31 zakim, aacc is gatemezi 08:52:32 +gatemezi; got it 08:53:26 gatemezi: Introduces self (from Eurecom) 08:53:30 -MakxDekkers 08:53:39 zakim, who is here? 08:53:39 On the phone I see ericstephan, Steve, gatemezi 08:53:41 Steve has Hadley, Yaso, PhilA, deirdrelee, BrianMatthews, Ig_Bittencourt, Antoine 08:53:41 On IRC I see antoine, raphael, laufer, yaso, Caroline_, HadleyBeeman, BrianMatthews, markharrison, Vagner_Br, deirdrelee, RickRobinson, CarlosIglesias, JohnGoodwin, Ig_Bittencourt, 08:53:41 ... Zakim, RRSAgent, PhilA, ericstephan, gatemezi, MakxDekkers, ivan, trackbot 08:54:16 +MakxDekkers 08:54:28 ericstephan: Introduces self 08:54:49 https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7ecpi31t3gsbcrq6onet5o0280 08:54:54 I'll post it on wiki too 08:55:21 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/31-dwbp-minutes.html raphael 08:55:23 PhilA: Just to note that ericstephan and BrianMatthews have similar interests here 08:55:24 s/Sao Paolo/NIC.br, Sao Paulo/ 08:55:37 MakxDekkers: Introduces self 08:55:57 MakxDekkers: Consultant in Spain, works with PhilA on an EC project 08:56:07 BrianMatthews Kerstin Kleese Van Dam (my manager) sends her greetings to you. 08:57:19 maybe, I don't hear you guys not so well either 08:58:51 Google Hangout details on wiki: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/London_2014#Google_Hangout 08:59:50 BernadetteLoscio has joined #dwbp 09:06:14 -MakxDekkers 09:07:11 Disconnected phone line. Hearing you on hangout 09:09:38 @all , I will send regret in 30 minutes for one hour because I have an appointment with my Doctor.. Sorry for that :( 09:09:47 Oh dear — sorry makxdekkers. We'll see if we can fix that 09:09:52 Bye for now, gatemezi! 09:10:10 zakim, who is here? 09:10:10 On the phone I see ericstephan, Steve, gatemezi 09:10:12 Steve has Hadley, Yaso, PhilA, deirdrelee, BrianMatthews, Ig_Bittencourt, Antoine 09:10:12 On IRC I see BernadetteLoscio, antoine, raphael, laufer, Caroline_, HadleyBeeman, BrianMatthews, markharrison, Vagner_Br, deirdrelee, RickRobinson, CarlosIglesias, JohnGoodwin, 09:10:12 ... Ig_Bittencourt, Zakim, RRSAgent, PhilA, ericstephan, gatemezi, MakxDekkers, ivan, trackbot 09:10:26 zakim, steve has me 09:10:26 +HadleyBeeman; got it 09:11:20 ivan has left #dwbp 09:13:24 newton has joined #dwbp 09:13:29 adrianov has joined #dwbp 09:15:18 Topic: Target for meeting 09:15:21 yaso has joined #dwbp 09:15:48 HadleyBeeman: We hope to get to the point by end of tomorrow that we can publish the First Public Working Draft of the Use cases document 09:16:13 ... an issue that has come up a lot, is how we work together. So I want to talk about how we can organise ourselves 09:16:20 ... we need to do things that make sense to us 09:16:26 ... we have to be working in the open 09:16:38 ... everyone can see what we're doing (e-mails are publicly archived) 09:16:42 ... but we can use whatever we like 09:16:47 ... to build the deliverables 09:16:54 fkyanai has joined #dwbp 09:16:59 ... quick reminder of the deliverables 09:17:07 ... minimum things are 3 docs 09:17:22 ... the Best Practices Recommendation (some bullet points) 09:17:35 -> http://www.w3.org/2013/05/odbp-charter charter 09:17:56 HadleyBeeman: We can work through that bullet list. We can drop them, add news ones, they're just a guide 09:18:12 ... in addition, the WG agreed to create UCR 09:18:33 ... we may well decidce that we need to write more, split the BP into multiple documents. We have a lot of leeway 09:18:41 ... but this is what we begin with 09:18:59 ... Vagner was concerned about keeping track of our work on the UCR 09:19:12 ... the wiki makes it easy to make lists, centralise things etc. 09:19:39 -> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Use_cases_timetable Use Cases timetable 09:20:00 ... probably want to change the wiki homepage 09:20:31 ... a big part of the chairs' job is to make the wiki useful and useable 09:20:59 laufer: I think the main page can be a little confusing if it has too many items 09:21:15 ... the main things of the groups are there 09:21:55 Topic: The Use Case document 09:22:12 deirdrelee: Following on from what Hadley said... we've been working on the UCR doc 09:22:28 ... aim is that it is a lead into the deliverables (BP, QDV, DUV) 09:22:42 ... goal is FPWD of UCR 09:23:04 rainbow has joined #dwbp 09:23:06 deirdrelee: We suggest that we start from the challenges 09:23:28 ... what were the problems/issues - so this is where we could potentially help 09:23:39 Caroline_ has joined #DWBP 09:23:40 ... yaso made the point about highlighting positive aspects 09:24:33 ... the challenges are in the Google doc https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhTZf3B9yQ3odGVvU3pBazFsY3pyUVppNDFSZGtyQkE&usp=sharing&richtext=true#gid=2 09:24:40 ... is the challenge relevant? 09:24:56 ... so data on the Web should ... to make it reusable for example 09:25:07 ... data should be in format X to be reusable 09:25:14 ... or should include metadata Y to be reusable 09:25:22 ... and then we need to consider whether it's in scope 09:25:27 ... is it in scope of W3C in general 09:25:52 ... (i.e. about the technical infrastructure of the World Wide Web) 09:26:02 ... and is it within our own expertise 09:26:20 ... if so, then it becomes a requirement for one of the deliverables (potentially more than one) 09:26:57 deirdrelee: refers to 09:27:02 -> http://www.w3.org/TR/csvw-ucr/ CSVW UCR 09:27:25 Steve: I just want to ask about data on the Web, Open data, and data 09:27:37 ... do we mean that these thingsa re the same or that these things are different? 09:27:45 laufer: I think for each of us it's different 09:28:17 laufer: I am one of the people discussing this and the metamodels that we have 09:28:34 ... things like CKAN and Soctrata have their own metamodels 09:28:39 q+ 09:28:51 Steve: So What did you mean when you wrote the charter 09:28:58 scribenick: hadleybeeman 09:29:11 q+ 09:29:37 phila: It began as the "Open Data Best Practices" working group. But discussing it, it became clear that was too narrow. 09:30:08 … for example, one of the papers presented at that workshop were from Fujitsu, who use open data to augment a private system. Healthcare needs. The technology they use is the same, whether open or not. 09:30:20 … So, from a tech point of view, any distinction is irrelevant. 09:30:27 q+ 09:30:35 … A lot of our use cases will be open data, but we must not exclude non-open data. 09:30:48 yaso: I'd like to suggets a radical way through this 09:30:54 scribenick: phila 09:30:57 ... I think today we can talk about data on the Web, not open data 09:31:16 q? 09:31:20 ack yaso 09:31:25 yaso: There's too much focus on open data. We spent too much time talking about publishing and not eneugh about reuse 09:31:57 q+ 09:32:53 steve: w3C does web standards. A city may do a lot of things before publishing data that may be out of scope for the W3C. Does "Data on the Web" show the distinction between what a group does before publication, vs out on the web? 09:33:22 Laufer: When you want to put this data on the Web, you have to make a transformation. This is the issue here. Our recommendation. 09:33:39 Phila: That's not ON the web — that's using the web as a glorified file transfer system 09:33:49 q? 09:34:03 Do we need a "Data on the Web" definition document to bound this? CSV on the Web made something similar to define and bound tabular data http://w3c.github.io/csvw/syntax/ 09:34:06 q+ 09:34:11 q+ 09:34:12 ack rick 09:34:25 RickRobinson: I'll start from the city councils that I work with 09:34:47 ... they have a lot of data that they want to open, but don't have the tech skills to do some of the things we talk about 09:35:06 ... I think it would be helpful to have a common language for tech and non-tech people 09:35:18 PhilA: Nods to 5 stars of LOD 09:35:37 RickRobinson: There's a section in the UCR on the revenue models tha implies that open data is freely available 09:35:41 ... that's contentious 09:35:52 ... is this WG getting into this area? 09:36:00 PhilA: Nods to recent Web payments Wworksho[p 09:36:06 ack ericstephan 09:36:21 ericstephan: Do we need a data on the web definition doc 09:36:38 ... in the CSVW WG we found ourselves in the predicament of defining tabular data - surprisingly 09:36:56 ... in science we're always pushing at the edge of the definition 09:37:09 ... so maybe we need a separate definition doc to define that 09:37:11 ack antoine 09:37:28 antoine: OP/Data I agree that we should try to ignore it for now. Maybe consider it later 09:37:36 q+ 09:37:41 ... and then see what others have done 09:37:56 q+ 09:38:04 ... as for data on the Web... it's up to us to make it better, not say that your council's PDF is bad 09:38:49 antoine: You started with data vs data on the Web - but in our rec we should make sure that some of the work applies earlier in the process 09:39:10 ... if we want them to be implemted properly, X needs to be done before it makes it to the Web 09:39:47 Steve: I think there's way to do this. The charter preserves scope but gives us a limit to where we can go. i.e. not reinventing data dictionaries for mainframes 09:39:57 ... but we can say what we expect to find in data and metadata on the Web 09:40:02 ... we expect lineage, names etc. 09:41:06 PhilA: We can recommend methods for doing that 09:41:09 ack yaso 09:41:16 q- 09:41:31 -gatemezi 09:41:37 yaso: I want to highlight the definition of open data. I don't want to discuss those now 09:41:43 http://opendefinition.org/ 09:41:46 ... it's another reason for me to forget about OD for now 09:42:08 ... we don't want to discuss licences? 09:42:19 Steve: Some of our use cases are open data oriented? 09:42:30 yaso: I want some use cases on closed data 09:42:52 q+ 09:42:56 Steve: You want the WG to cover non-open data? Copyrighted data? 09:43:06 q+ 09:43:14 Agreed Steve to not covering copyrighted or closed data 09:43:15 yaso: There are many licences that offer less than opnness 09:43:20 q+ to ask about the technical differences between open and closed (closed licenced) data 09:43:26 RickRobinson: Is your point that there are issues that are technical? 09:43:26 q+ 09:43:39 +q 09:43:40 q+ 09:43:49 RickRobinson: and these are separate from open data in a legal or financial issues? 09:43:51 yaso: Yes 09:44:13 yaso: I can collect data from my car and put it on the Web, say with a CC licence 09:44:25 ... maybe CC-NC 09:44:31 ack markharrison 09:44:32 ack mark 09:44:58 markharrison: Going back to what Steve was saying, I'm not sure we need to differenitate between open/closed, dumps. 09:45:03 ... what about liability issues? 09:45:32 ... there's new EU food labelling obligations saying that it must be available online and the same as found on the packaging 09:45:50 ... the retailer may want to reuse/reference that data in their own site , and there can be apps that reuse it 09:46:07 ... so we need to think about licences, yes, but also liability, up to date 09:46:11 ack CarlosIglesias 09:46:36 CarlosIglesias: On open/other - I tend to agree that from the tech perspective that's not important 09:46:52 ... we also have the linked/non-LD approaches 09:46:58 ... most of us work with LOD 09:47:08 ... but it's not only about technology 09:47:25 ... most of us are familiar with the underlying principles 09:47:33 MakxDekkers has joined #dwbp 09:47:40 ... we often ttalk about data not following 5 Star paradigm 09:48:11 ->http://5stardata.info/ In case anyone here is unfamiliar with the 5 stars of open data 09:48:30 CarlosIglesias: There are some basic principles that we all agree on? Licences etc? 09:48:54 ... we are already not focusssing on non-tech issues 09:49:55 CarlosIglesias: We are already talking about all these points, open government principles, bring value to open data 09:50:00 q- 09:50:03 q? 09:50:20 q- 09:50:48 http://www.w3.org/TR/gov-data/ 09:50:57 https://public.resource.org/8_principles.html 09:50:58 To me if data is not following 5 star, it is not in scope of this group that means not even meeting the 1 star criteria. How could it be data on the web then? 09:51:47 Steve: Tells story about Long Beach defibrillator. 09:52:04 ... ideas was to publish data on where these things are around the city 09:52:23 ... what happens if the data is wrong because it was used and not put back 09:52:36 ... need to have indemnity 09:52:59 ... we can't stipulate that, but we can't offer advice on legal areas 09:53:14 Steve: So I think we can be aware of these issues 09:53:17 q+ 09:53:39 lost my conection. Now conference bridge does not allow dial-in: this conference is restricted at this time 09:53:47 ack ig 09:54:13 Ig_Bittencourt: I think we should ignore the open/non-open distinction 09:54:24 ... it's not important for us as such 09:54:26 oh dear, makxdekkers. We'll try to sort it in 2 or 3 minutes 09:54:27 ack HadleyBeeman 09:54:27 HadleyBeeman, you wanted to ask about the technical differences between open and closed (closed licenced) data 09:54:42 zakim, code? 09:54:42 the conference code is 3927 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA 09:54:51 zakim, room for 4? 09:54:52 ok, PhilA; conference Team_(dwbp)09:54Z scheduled with code 3927 (DWBP) for 60 minutes until 1054Z 09:55:20 I am back on hangout with sound 09:55:25 HadleyBeeman: I keep trying to work out what is tech and can be written and what is out of our scope 09:55:56 HadleyBeeman: We can provide the mechanism through which people can describe how accurate/reliable their data is 09:56:02 ... what they say is out of our ken 09:56:05 q? 09:56:07 ack BrianMatthews 09:56:21 BrianMatthews: I also wanted to reiterate that open data might be a red herring 09:56:34 ... from the science perspective, the data might be free but it's not necessarily open 09:56:49 ... sometimes specific people/groups are able to read the data 09:57:04 ... doesn't matter about that here - it's delivered by Web protocols 09:57:29 ... as for whether we should have stars etc. We should look for best practices that help take people forward 09:57:31 +1 BrianMatthews proposal 09:57:37 ack BernadetteLoscio 09:58:09 BernadetteLoscio: I think we're talking about data which can be unstructured, structured. I don't think we're concerned about non-structured data 09:58:49 BernadetteLoscio: Structured data maybe a relational data, Excel etc. Non-structured can be anything such as text 09:58:55 q+ 09:59:29 BernadetteLoscio: When we start to think about this we come back to some of the principles of open data 09:59:39 q+ to talk more about structured vs. unstructured data 10:00:30 +1 to support the idea of having principles 10:00:45 Ig_Bittencourt_ has joined #DWBP 10:00:51 BernadetteLoscio: Maybe we should think about principles for data on the web which may not be the same as principles of open data 10:01:00 q? 10:01:05 scribe: Ig_Bittencourt 10:01:19 q+ 10:01:50 q- 10:02:05 ack phila 10:02:07 ack PhilA 10:02:41 PhilA: Does everybody know what 5 start data are? 10:02:41 -> http://5stardata.info/ 5 star LOD 10:02:49 q+ 10:03:08 ... the difference we might have to change 10:03:21 ... first of all about open and close 10:03:41 ... there is another 5 start which is useful is 10:03:45 Tim Davies 5 stars of data engagement http://www.timdavies.org.uk/2012/01/21/5-stars-of-open-data-engagement/ 10:04:06 ... not just about use the data but feedback 10:04:18 and these are other 5 start that could be useful 10:04:37 q? 10:04:37 Available on coffee mug! :-) http://www.cafepress.com/mf/45953815/five-star-linked-data_mugs?productId=480759174 10:04:38 q? 10:04:53 spot on, ericstephan! 10:05:08 http://www.opendataimpacts.net/engagement/ 10:05:19 ack CarlosIglesias 10:05:19 CarlosIglesias, you wanted to talk more about structured vs. unstructured data 10:05:35 CarlosIglesias: I would like to get back about the format 10:05:47 Antoine: This is the original from TimBL? http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkedData.html 10:05:57 ... a PDF already could be data on the web 10:06:25 ... PDF structured or non-structure data depends how you publish it 10:06:42 ... it is not about how the data is, but how to use it 10:06:56 -> http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkedData.html The original LOD definitions from TimBL 10:07:18 ... my point here is not to discuss philosophical points 10:07:36 ... but we need some definition and background definition 10:07:42 ... to build the best practices 10:08:00 q? 10:08:04 PhilT has joined #DWBP 10:08:06 ... every one has a difference understanding about data 10:08:09 ack Vagner_Br 10:08:22 Vagner_Br: I want to go back about deirdrelee presented 10:08:32 ... i would like to understand more about the methodology 10:08:40 ... about challenges 10:08:50 .. when we are talking about challenges 10:09:13 ... we want to reach some certain points 10:09:27 ... i would like to support the idea about define basic principles 10:10:03 ... if we define any challenge without a basic reference or common definitions could be bad 10:10:18 -> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhTZf3B9yQ3odGVvU3pBazFsY3pyUVppNDFSZGtyQkE&usp=sharing&richtext=true#gid=2 Challenges 10:10:20 ... for instance, interoperability, data granurality 10:10:32 RRSAgent, draft minutes 10:10:32 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/31-dwbp-minutes.html PhilA 10:10:40 ... another example is like privacy 10:10:53 ... what are the basics about privacy 10:11:01 in order to define the challenges 10:11:09 ... even licenses 10:11:26 acl laufer 10:11:27 ack laufer 10:11:36 laufer: i think we have some issues here 10:11:39 q+ to suggest another approach on challenges and/or best practices 10:11:43 ... that are the formats of the data 10:11:49 .. we can have some information on a PDF 10:11:57 ... or in a CSV 10:12:12 ... but we are talking about the conteent and if it is relevant or not 10:12:37 ... it is valuable if the data is not structured 10:12:46 ... but if it is relevant. 10:13:13 ... we can have the CSV 10:13:31 ... if we have a recommendation bout pdf we can achieve 10:13:59 ... so I think that is not related to the format 10:14:17 just a few thoughts...I think we need to discuss data on the web, not data near the web, but when it is on the web, what are the best practices? 10:14:22 ... if a human can extract the information, it does not matther 10:14:29 === 10 Minute Break === 10:14:35 HadleyBeeman: we have 10 minutes stop 10:14:35 RRSAgent, draft minutes 10:14:35 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/31-dwbp-minutes.html PhilA 10:32:14 newton has joined #dwbp 10:34:10 newton_ has joined #dwbp 10:34:53 yaso has joined #dwbp 10:35:22 fkyanai has joined #dwbp 10:35:24