17:04:39 RRSAgent has joined #ua 17:04:39 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/03/27-ua-irc 17:04:41 RRSAgent, make logs public 17:04:41 Zakim has joined #ua 17:04:43 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 17:04:43 ok, trackbot, I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM already started 17:04:44 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 17:04:44 Date: 27 March 2014 17:04:48 zakim, code? 17:04:48 the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), jeanne 17:05:00 rrsagent, make logs public 17:05:19 +[IPcaller] 17:05:56 -Jim_Allan 17:06:02 zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan 17:06:02 +Jan; got it 17:06:03 agenda? 17:06:17 Scribe: Jan 17:06:30 agenda+ Finish Jan's OP06 comments 17:06:41 agenda+ review comments 17:06:53 comments document: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2014/LCcomments.html 17:07:32 +Jim_Allan 17:08:49 +Kim_Patch 17:08:49 KimPatch has joined #ua 17:11:02 agenda+ Web Applications Working Group Charter 17:11:28 agenda+ CSUN recap 17:12:16 Zakim, agenda? 17:12:16 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda: 17:12:18 1. Finish Jan's OP06 comments [from jeanne] 17:12:18 2. review comments [from jeanne] 17:12:18 3. Web Applications Working Group Charter [from jeanne] 17:12:18 4. CSUN recap [from jeanne] 17:12:24 Zakim, take up agendum 3 17:12:24 agendum 3. "Web Applications Working Group Charter" taken up [from jeanne] 17:12:46 http://www.w3.org/2014/03/webapps-charter.html 17:12:55 JS: UA has been identified as a dependency 17:13:15 JS: We have a week to look at it. Pls send comments directly to Jeanne not to the UA list. 17:13:25 JS: They have a huge list of deliverables 17:14:04 jallan has joined #ua 17:14:27 http://www.w3.org/2014/03/webapps-charter.html#deliverables 17:15:26 GL: Wow! 17:15:36 JS: In 2 years... 17:15:49 JS: I think we are interested in custom elements 17:16:49 GL: I lot of these I would need to read more...one sentence is not enough 17:17:12 JS: Key thing here is "The WebApps WG will actively seek security, privacy, internationalisation and accessibility review on all its specifications." 17:17:26 JS: We just need to approve charter 17:17:48 KP: What are the main things that excite/scare you about this? 17:17:59 GL: Scare...shadow DOM.... 17:18:15 GL: Will ATs be impacted? 17:18:43 GL: Full screen API has implications for onscreen keyboards 17:19:15 GL: Pointer lock.... allows restriction of where the mouse can go... may impact onscreen keyboards, magnifiers 17:19:30 GL: I can see possible impacts for half of these 17:19:40 KP: Anything good for accessibility? 17:19:51 GL: Anything with events... 17:20:05 GL: Anything helping user interaction 17:20:18 KP: How does IndieUI fit in? 17:20:43 JS: Originally WebApps was going to be joint group with PF. 17:20:53 JS: But they pulled out 17:21:26 GL: I suspect problem if IndieUI not developed with input from WebApps group 17:21:38 JS: Maybe we should note lack of mention of IndieUI 17:21:57 JA: Membership...anyone we know? 17:22:01 Restricting pointer actions and full-screen apps could affect accessibility aids such as on-screen keyboards. 17:22:03 JS: Chaals 17:23:09 Events and DOM partitioning could affect AT that hooks into the DOM for presenting info to the user, manipulating the document or its presentation for the user's benefit, or manipulates the document at the user's request. 17:23:23 JA: Ecmascript etc? 17:23:41 JS: It's external group they are interacting with 17:23:54 JA: All good stuff 17:24:07 JA: Pointer lock? 17:24:09 "Pointer Lock: Defines APIs that provide scripted access to raw mouse movement data while locking the target of mouse events to a single element and removing the cursor from view." Obviously could be disastrous for some AT scenarios. 17:25:02 JR: HTML Editing should be coordinated with ATAG 17:25:27 JR: Emulation of GamePad 17:25:28 JR: Gamepad...would also need to be able to emulate 17:25:46 GL: We should create a little list of thoughts on this? Maybe on wiki 17:26:41 JS: I'm pretty psyched about the input they are expecting from us 17:27:30 JS: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group: To ensure that WebApps WG deliverables support accessibility requirements, particularly with regard to interoperability with assistive technologies, and inclusion in deliverables of guidance for implementing WebApps deliverables in ways that support accessibility requirements. 17:28:57 https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/index.php?title=Comments_on_Web_Applications_Working_Group_Charter&action=edit&redlink=1 17:30:06 JA: Anyone who reviews this, please put your comments into the wiki page 17:30:49 Zakim, agenda? 17:30:49 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda: 17:30:50 1. Finish Jan's OP06 comments [from jeanne] 17:30:50 2. review comments [from jeanne] 17:30:50 3. Web Applications Working Group Charter [from jeanne] 17:30:50 4. CSUN recap [from jeanne] 17:31:41 GL: How will liaising work? 17:32:01 JS: Not sure, I've never been an official liaison before. 17:32:32 JS: I know in PF, different people have different responsibilities to various outside groups 17:32:49 JS: Maybe better to establish relationships with Chaals or Art 17:33:12 JA: One would think they would ping us for firs public drafts etc 17:33:46 JS: Good question. Dependency vs liaison are different. 17:35:15 GL: If they have subgroups working on things, we should give them a list of relevant accessibility topics to think about 17:35:29 KP: I could put them in wiki 17:35:55 http://w3c.github.io/webcomponents/spec/custom/ 17:39:02 JR: Use case of person in wheelchair with the tablet bolted to a particular orientation, needing to force all web apps to the needed orientation. 17:39:05 -Jim_Allan 17:40:53 +Jim_Allan 17:43:51 +Kelly_Ford 17:44:49 https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Comments_on_Web_Applications_Working_Group_Charter#Categories_Related_to_UAAG 17:46:51 action: jeanne to check what is expected for Liaison for Web Apps. 17:46:52 Created ACTION-961 - Check what is expected for liaison for web apps. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-04-03]. 17:47:59 Zakim, close this item 17:47:59 agendum 3 closed 17:48:00 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 17:48:00 1. Finish Jan's OP06 comments [from jeanne] 17:48:17 Zakim, take up agendum 4 17:48:17 agendum 4. "CSUN recap" taken up [from jeanne] 17:48:31 JA: Jeanne? 17:49:06 JS: Great conversations. 17:50:15 AndChat|669681 has joined #ua 17:52:45 JA: I raised UAAG a few times 17:53:01 JA: Telling people to write bugs on browsers and checkput our GLs 17:54:00 JA: Also mentionned I was concerned about reliance on extensions...since browsers can change out from underneath extensions 17:54:36 JS: One idea is browsers developer's OWN extensions 17:55:01 GL: Good except there might also be 3rd party ones that are very good 17:55:19 JA: Are there paid extensions? 17:55:25 JS: I think so 17:56:20 JA: Anyone else at CSUN? 17:56:40 JA: Nope... 17:57:40 jallan has joined #ua 17:57:57 JA: Realized ARIA required is not same as HTML5 required. 17:58:11 Zakim, close this item 17:58:11 agendum 4 closed 17:58:13 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 17:58:13 1. Finish Jan's OP06 comments [from jeanne] 17:58:29 Zakim, take up agendum 1 17:58:29 agendum 1. "Finish Jan's OP06 comments" taken up [from jeanne] 17:59:10 AndChat|669681 has joined #ua 17:59:51 http://www.w3.org/2014/03/13-ua-minutes.html 18:00:02 http://www.w3.org/2014/03/13-ua-minutes.html#item05 18:02:51 Last time, there was a resolution to Accept Jan's proposal for 1.9.1 with minor edits 18:03:58 KP: Clarifieds that Mouseless browsing does go to all enabled elements 18:05:33 Jan's email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014JanMar/0046.html 18:06:00 Topic: Proposal on 2.3.1 18:07:57 Internal draft http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/UAAG20/ 18:08:53 Maybe a note about virtual keyboards here: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/UAAG20/#def-keyboard-focus 18:09:34 "Keyboard emulators and interfaces may be used on devices which do not have a physical keyboard, such as mobile devices based on touchscreen input." 18:09:43 I recommend we put note in UAAG 2.0 Conformance Applicability Notes. 18:09:46 From http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/UAAG20/#def-keyboard 18:10:58 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/UAAG20/#def-direct-command 18:11:13 GL: Should link "directly" to the definition http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/UAAG20/#def-direct-command 18:11:26 Ok 18:11:36 Jim 18:12:54 Resolution: All agree to change 2.3.1 to say 2.3.1 Allow Direct Navigation to Enabled Elements: The user can move keyboard focus directly to any enabled elements in the rendered content. (Level AA) 18:13:29 Action Jeanne: Edit 2.3.1 Allow Direct Navigation to Enabled Elements: The user can move keyboard focus *directly* to any enabled elements in the rendered content. (Level AA) 18:13:30 Created ACTION-962 - Edit 2.3.1 allow direct navigation to enabled elements: the user can move keyboard focus *directly* to any enabled elements in the rendered content. (level aa) [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-04-03]. 18:15:23 jallan has joined #ua 18:16:14 Topic: Proposal on 2.3.3 18:16:19 JR: Proposed 2.3.3 Allow Direct Activation of Enabled Elements: The user can perform an activation action on any enabled element in the rendered content. (Level A) 18:16:35 GL: Doesn't say ditrectly and doesn't say what manner 18:16:40 Regrets: Eric 18:16:58 Original: 2.3.3 Allow Direct Activation of Enabled Elements: The user can move directly to and activate any enabled element in rendered content. (Level A) 18:17:56 Rrsagent, make minutes 18:17:56 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/27-ua-minutes.html jallan 18:18:32 Rrsagent, set logs public 18:18:53 GL: If I had to choose which is more important, I would say navigation is higher priority than activation 18:19:47 JR: Do we need the other? 18:19:52 KP: Yes we do 18:20:16 2.3.3 Allow Direct Activation of Enabled Elements: The user can perform a direct activation action on any enabled element in the rendered content. (Level A) 18:20:33 Direct navigation can be used for many purposes, such as scrolling, changing where you search from, etc., and activating is generally only one more keystroke or equivalent once you've moved keyboard focus to an element. Thus direct nav higher priority than direct activation. 18:23:13 KP: Question...is activation without navigation going to mess people up? 18:23:53 Kim: separating direct activation from direct navigation may be causing a problem... 18:24:15 Jan: Then we *do* want a combined navigate and move? 18:24:57 Kim: We want to make sure the two input methods do the same thing as people get mixed up if mouse and speech behave differently, especially subtle differences. 18:25:27 Kim: Thus a combined activation and navigation is very useful. 18:26:02 2.3.3 Allow Direct Activation of Enabled Elements: The user can, in one step, move keyboard focus *directly* to any enabled elements and perform a direct activation action on any enabled element in the rendered content. (Level A) 18:26:05 Kim: When click a link with the mouse then use back button, focus is on the link. If using direct activation on a link then use back button, focus is not on the link. 18:26:35 2.3.3 Allow Direct Activation of Enabled Elements: The user can, in one step, move keyboard focus *directly* to and perform a direct activation action on any enabled element in the rendered content. (Level A) 18:27:23 KP: see bove 18:30:20 Jan: If Windows Phone has no keyboard focus concept, they could implement direct activation but not direct navigation, thus felt the latter should be lower priority. 18:30:48 Greg: I'm willing to fail Windows Phone if it does not implement API for keyboard focus. 18:32:15 Discussion of whether iOS and Windows Phone have keyboard focus, if for example iOS has the functionality only when VoiceOver is on. 18:33:10 rrsagent, make minutes 18:33:10 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/27-ua-minutes.html jallan 18:33:36 -Jim_Allan 18:33:43 -Kim_Patch 18:33:45 -Kelly_Ford 18:33:46 -Jan 18:33:49 -Jeanne 18:33:53 -Greg_Lowney 18:33:54 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended 18:33:54 Attendees were Jim_Allan, Greg_Lowney, Jeanne, Jan, Kim_Patch, Kelly_Ford 18:33:57 Next call Apr 3 18:34:33 RRSAgent, make minutes 18:34:33 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/27-ua-minutes.html Jan 18:34:38 RRSAgent, set logs public 18:34:42 Zakim, bye 18:34:42 Zakim has left #ua 18:34:47 RRSAgent, bye 18:34:47 I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/03/27-ua-actions.rdf : 18:34:47 ACTION: jeanne to check what is expected for Liaison for Web Apps. [1] 18:34:47 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/03/27-ua-irc#T17-46-51 18:34:47 ACTION: Jeanne to Edit 2.3.1 Allow Direct Navigation to Enabled Elements: The user can move keyboard focus *directly* to any enabled elements in the rendered content. (Level AA) [2] 18:34:47 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/03/27-ua-irc#T18-13-29