14:28:41 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rd
14:28:41 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/03/26-rd-irc
14:28:43 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:28:43 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rd
14:28:45 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
14:28:45 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()10:30AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
14:28:46 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
14:28:46 <trackbot> Date: 26 March 2014
14:29:01 <markel> markel has joined #rd
14:29:02 <shadi> zakim, this is rdwg
14:29:02 <Zakim> ok, shadi; that matches WAI_RDWG()10:30AM
14:29:11 <Luz> Zakim, mute me
14:29:12 <Zakim> sorry, Luz, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:29:13 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:29:13 <Zakim> On the phone I see [IPcaller]
14:29:22 <shadi> zakim, ipcaller is Luz
14:29:22 <Zakim> +Luz; got it
14:29:29 <shadi> zakim, call shadi-617
14:29:29 <Zakim> ok, shadi; the call is being made
14:29:30 <Zakim> +Shadi
14:29:36 <Luz> Thank you Shadi
14:30:12 <sharper> sharper has joined #rd
14:30:33 <Zakim> +??P2
14:30:42 <klaus> klaus has joined #rd
14:30:51 <sharper> trackbot, start meeting
14:30:52 <sharper> zakim, please clear the agenda
14:30:52 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:30:53 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:30:55 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
14:30:55 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()10:30AM scheduled to start now
14:30:56 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
14:30:56 <trackbot> Date: 26 March 2014
14:31:02 <shadi> Regrets: Yehya, Silvia, Annika, Mark, Peter. Christos
14:31:13 <sharper> Chair: Harper_Simon
14:31:13 <sharper> Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [sharper]
14:31:15 <sharper> Agenda+ TPAC 27-31 October 2014, Santa Clara, http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/ [sharper]
14:31:16 <shadi> zakim, this is rdwg
14:31:16 <Zakim> ok, shadi; that matches WAI_RDWG()10:30AM
14:31:16 <sharper> Agenda+ W3C Workshop on the Web of Things http://www.w3.org/2014/02/wot/ [sharper]
14:31:18 <sharper> Agenda+ Update next topic - https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/tracker/actions/53 [markku]
14:31:19 <sharper> Agenda+ Metrics Note https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/tracker/actions/47 [shadi]
14:31:21 <sharper> Agenda+ Mobile Note https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/tracker/actions/48 [shadi]
14:31:21 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:31:22 <sharper> Agenda+ Site Text Creation https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/tracker/actions/38 [shadi]
14:31:22 <Zakim> -??P1
14:31:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see Luz, Shadi, ??P2
14:31:24 <sharper> Agenda+ Look and Feel https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/tracker/actions/45 [shadi]
14:31:25 <sharper> Agenda+ Upcoming catalogue topics https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/tracker/actions/52 [klaus]
14:31:27 <sharper> Agenda+ Accreditation Cat Topic https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/tracker/actions/56 [vivienne]
14:31:28 <sharper> Agenda+ Editor Draft https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/tracker/actions/42 [Yehya]
14:31:30 <sharper> Agenda+ STANDING  - Next Symposium Topic [sharper]
14:31:31 <sharper> Agenda+ STANDING  - Next Catalogue Topic [sharper]
14:31:31 <sharper> Agenda+ STANDING - Any Other Business [sharper]
14:31:33 <Zakim> +??P3
14:31:33 <Luz> zakim, mute me
14:31:34 <Zakim> Luz should now be muted
14:31:42 <sharper> zakim, take up item 1
14:31:42 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)" taken up [from sharper]
14:32:08 <markel> zakim, ??P3 is me
14:32:08 <Zakim> +markel; got it
14:32:15 <klaus> zakim, ??P2 is me
14:32:15 <Zakim> +klaus; got it
14:32:23 <klaus> zakim, mute me
14:32:23 <Zakim> klaus should now be muted
14:32:37 <markel> it must be me
14:32:49 <markel> :-)
14:32:55 <shadi> scribe: markel
14:33:05 <Zakim> +??P1
14:33:17 <sharper> zakim, ??P1 is sharper
14:33:17 <Zakim> +sharper; got it
14:33:54 <markel> zakim, take up item 2
14:33:54 <Zakim> agendum 2. "TPAC 27-31 October 2014, Santa Clara, http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/" taken up [from sharper]
14:34:01 <markel> zakim, close item 1
14:34:01 <Zakim> agendum 1, Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments), closed
14:34:04 <Zakim> I see 13 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:34:04 <Zakim> 2. TPAC 27-31 October 2014, Santa Clara, http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/ [from sharper]
14:34:52 <shadi> +1
14:34:58 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:35:00 <markel> SH: +1 people who might want to go to TPAC
14:35:02 <Luz> Not going.
14:35:13 <markel> SAZ: Can we explain what TPAC is?
14:35:27 <Justin> Justin has joined #rd
14:35:41 <Joshue> Joshue has joined #rd
14:35:42 <markel> SH: is a meeting were different groups get together.
14:36:27 <markel> SAZ: it stands for W3C technical plenary. It'd be great to have a RDWG. It's in Santa Clara, CA. It'd be a good opportunity to share thought with other groups like mobile.
14:36:53 <markel> SAZ: to know what they are up to. We can also feedback them and the other way around.
14:37:21 <markel> SAZ: downside is it is far away but it'll be highly benefitial.
14:38:17 <markel> SAZ: shall we have a survey to know tentative availability?
14:38:32 <markel> SH: I could add something about the ICCHP availability.
14:38:55 <markel> SAZ: it could be a rolling survey which we run from time to time.
14:39:08 <markel> SH: MH and Gerardo seem not to be available.
14:39:17 <markel> zakim, take up item 3
14:39:17 <Zakim> agendum 3. "W3C Workshop on the Web of Things http://www.w3.org/2014/02/wot/" taken up [from sharper]
14:40:32 <markel> SH: there is a W3C workshop going on. There might be some accessibility issues going on. SAZ and I and coordination group think we could publish something on behalf of RDWG.
14:40:59 <markel> SH: +1 if the workshop is a good idea to put a short abstract on behalf of RDWG?
14:41:04 <shadi> q+
14:41:09 <sharper> ack s
14:41:09 <shadi> ack me
14:41:47 <shadi> https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Augmented_Reality_/_Internet_of_Things
14:42:06 <markel> SAZ: 2 weeks ago we discussed the augmented reality item of the wiki. We had a discussion about it
14:42:37 <Peter_Thiessen> Peter_Thiessen has joined #rd
14:43:00 <markel> SAZ: we though about having a more structured wiki entry by breaking up things into smaller pieces.
14:43:23 <markel> SAZ: it seems relevant so we could have a structured discussion within the group.
14:44:28 <markel> SAZ: based on that we could put a position paper on behalf of the workshop. Simon and I could convey the outcomes of the discussion by highlighting the accessibility challenges and the links to other groups.
14:44:48 <markel> SAZ: we have the opportunity to very early on put feedback on that.
14:45:16 <markel> SH: any comment on this?
14:45:22 <klaus> zakim, unmute me
14:45:22 <Zakim> klaus should no longer be muted
14:46:12 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/2014/03/12-rd-minutes.html
14:46:15 <markel> KM: I agree that we have several problems on the scope of the topic. I'm happy to discuss and work on this again and put it as a structured discussion.
14:46:39 <Peter_Thiessen> Peter_Thiessen has joined #rd
14:47:41 <markel> SH: expressions of interest have to be submitted by the 25 of April, although nothing is said about the date of full papers
14:47:55 <markel> SH: is anybody willing to lead the effort?
14:48:39 <markel> SAZ: it says that if you want to present you need to put a position paper by the 25 of April.
14:48:48 <markel> SH: there are some actions we can divide.
14:49:08 <markel> SAZ: @KM, would you be interested in creating a catalogue item in the Wiki?
14:49:28 <markel> SAZ: and have a discussion between now and the deadline
14:49:46 <klaus> fine with me
14:50:03 <markel> SAZ: there are 3 pieces to be done, which they don't have to be necessarily be done by the same person
14:50:41 <markel> SH: considering the timeline, it's going to be unlikely that I can put anything substantial
14:51:17 <markel> SH: we could put something together as extracted from the wiki
14:51:40 <markel> SAZ: we could talk about the challenges we encounter with regard to the WoT
14:52:51 <markel> SAZ: the UI accessibility is one aspect; another aspect is the configuration and protocols.
14:53:31 <markel> SAZ: also the accessibility to data through APIs by assistive tech
14:54:09 <markel> SAZ: the settings aspect: there's is software update and the initial configuration is reset
14:55:18 <markel> SAZ: the number of situations in which those devices are web enabled and pose an accessibility problem, even if, ironically opens lots of opportunities to people with disabilities
14:55:30 <markel> SAZ: we could put some use cases
14:56:20 <markel> SH: it's a good way of thinking about it. Perhaps these things deserve a symposium. If we could put something sensible...
14:56:55 <markel> SH: we need to realise what the deadlines are for this. If by next week we cannot complete the topic and we don't have the people we have to write a line
14:57:20 <markel> SH: we need 2.5 or 3 weeks to complete
14:57:34 <klaus> yes!
14:57:37 <markel> SAZ: @KM, would you be able to have a wiki item by the next week?
14:58:12 <markel> SAZ: we could have some side discussions with people at W4a
14:58:14 <klaus> I will do my best
14:58:21 <markel> SAZ: and have a draft by the 16?
14:58:51 <klaus> (-:
14:59:04 <sharper> Action: klaus to bring together WOT in wiki
14:59:05 <trackbot> Created ACTION-57 - Bring together wot in wiki [on Klaus Miesenberge - due 2014-04-02].
14:59:36 <sharper> Action: shadi to develop paper from WOT wiki by 16th April
14:59:36 <trackbot> Created ACTION-58 - Develop paper from wot wiki by 16th april [on Shadi Abou-Zahra - due 2014-04-02].
15:00:10 <markel> zakim, close item 3
15:00:10 <Zakim> agendum 3, W3C Workshop on the Web of Things http://www.w3.org/2014/02/wot/, closed
15:00:11 <markel> zakim, take up item 4
15:00:13 <Zakim> I see 12 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:00:13 <Zakim> 2. TPAC 27-31 October 2014, Santa Clara, http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/ [from sharper]
15:00:13 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Update next topic - https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/tracker/actions/53" taken up [from markku via sharper]
15:01:03 <markel> SAZ: I met MH on CSUN, he's looking to get a colleague into the group so that this person can move it forward.
15:01:23 <markel> zakim, close item 4
15:01:23 <Zakim> agendum 4, Update next topic - https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/tracker/actions/53, closed
15:01:23 <markel> zakim, take up item 5
15:01:25 <Zakim> I see 11 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:01:25 <Zakim> 2. TPAC 27-31 October 2014, Santa Clara, http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/ [from sharper]
15:01:25 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Metrics Note https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/tracker/actions/47" taken up [from shadi via sharper]
15:02:04 <markel> SAZ: I have a side comment on the metrics note which is becoming very relevant.
15:02:34 <markel> SAZ: I haven't made progress on the actual work here. We are having a discussion on the evaluation working group
15:02:55 <markel> SAZ: we haven't get onto the discussion about which the best metric is
15:03:11 <markel> SAZ: people fear that metrics would dilute accessibility
15:03:27 <markel> SAZ: as measurements might be too tolerant
15:03:39 <markel> SAZ: we haven't identified the perfect metrics
15:04:49 <markel> SAZ: on the other hand people acknowledge of the benefits for high level managers, being tolerant to errors is also a good side, etc
15:05:04 <markel> SAZ: this discussion is here again
15:05:07 <markel> q+
15:05:41 <sharper> ack ma
15:08:18 <markel> MV: as long as we know the weaknesses and strengths about metrics --which the note does-- that's fine
15:09:02 <markel> SAZ: indeed there are opposing views, people in the evaluation methodology are viewing it
15:09:21 <markel> SAZ: I would love this discussion to continues
15:09:39 <markel> SAZ: RDWG could really serve in having this dialogue
15:10:02 <markel> SH: what does this mean about the note?
15:10:24 <markel> SAZ: this is having higher priority now.
15:10:43 <markel> q+
15:11:02 <sharper> ack m
15:12:02 <markel> MV: I wonder if this opposing views are delaying the publication of the note
15:12:06 <markel> SAZ: no
15:12:24 <markel> zakim, close item 5
15:12:24 <Zakim> agendum 5, Metrics Note https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/tracker/actions/47, closed
15:12:25 <markel> zakim, take up item 6
15:12:27 <Zakim> I see 10 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:12:27 <Zakim> 2. TPAC 27-31 October 2014, Santa Clara, http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/ [from sharper]
15:12:27 <Zakim> agendum 6. "Mobile Note https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/tracker/actions/48" taken up [from shadi via sharper]
15:12:50 <markel> which item is that?
15:13:03 <markel> zakim, take up item 9
15:13:03 <Zakim> agendum 9. "Upcoming catalogue topics https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/tracker/actions/52" taken up [from klaus via sharper]
15:13:47 <markel> SH: if there are topics sitting in this area we need to move them forward
15:14:02 <markel> SH: are we going to have these discussions on Wednesday?
15:14:55 <markel> SAZ: we had a good turnout and we just got the initial reactions to them. In the augmented reality item, the outcomes indicate that it should be split
15:14:55 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/2014/03/12-rd-minutes.html
15:15:54 <markel> SAZ: on the WoT we had some suggestions too..once we have more stable items we can run a survey and select the one which is more appropriate
15:16:08 <klaus> zakim, unmute me
15:16:08 <Zakim> klaus was not muted, klaus
15:16:57 <markel> SAZ: it was a good start, there were a couple of comments on the minutes
15:17:04 <klaus> zakim, mute me
15:17:04 <Zakim> klaus should now be muted
15:17:16 <markel> KM: I'll try to address these comments.
15:17:46 <markel> SH: any other business?
15:18:18 <markel> SH: I'll send an email about the WoT workshop
15:18:58 <markel> SAZ: there is no restriction if you want to submit your own paper although we also want to have a coordinated submission
15:19:28 <markel> bye!
15:19:34 <klaus> bye
15:19:35 <Zakim> -sharper
15:19:37 <sharper> sharper has left #rd
15:19:38 <Luz> Bye bye
15:19:39 <markel> markel has left #rd
15:19:42 <Zakim> -markel
15:19:43 <Zakim> -Shadi
15:19:43 <Zakim> -klaus
15:19:46 <Zakim> -Luz
15:24:59 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:24:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see [IPcaller]
15:25:09 <shadi> zakim, drop ipcaller
15:25:09 <Zakim> [IPcaller] is being disconnected
15:25:10 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()10:30AM has ended
15:25:10 <Zakim> Attendees were Luz, Shadi, markel, klaus, sharper, [IPcaller]
15:26:15 <Joshue> Joshue has joined #rd
15:26:54 <shadi> trackbot, end meeting
15:26:54 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:26:54 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
15:27:02 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:27:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/26-rd-minutes.html trackbot
15:27:03 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:27:03 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/03/26-rd-actions.rdf :
15:27:03 <RRSAgent> ACTION: klaus to bring together WOT in wiki [1]
15:27:03 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/03/26-rd-irc#T14-59-04
15:27:03 <RRSAgent> ACTION: shadi to develop paper from WOT wiki by 16th April [2]
15:27:03 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/03/26-rd-irc#T14-59-36